I have to say, Olympia Snowe is a Republican with really good ideas.

[Harry Dresden]

how did you miss it?

how the hell did you miss what Dude was saying?.....he wasnt talking about the voters in Conn. dumbass....he was talking about how the parties will say this rep is being "rational" because he/she agrees with us,while throwing a disagreeing rep under the bus for being "rational" while agreeing with the other side.....

Actually I was pointing (like it matters) that the national Democratic party threw its support behind Lieberman's challenger in the primary, forcing him to run as an independent. It has little to do with voters in CT.

i know that and you know that....the guy in Maine....forget about it...

 

[logical4u]

and I have always liked the fact that Maine has produced some of the nation's best moderate republican senators.... from Maggie Smith and Bill Cohen to Oly Snowe and Susan Collins.... we like 'em smart up here in Maine, and we like 'em not so partisan that they get to loving their party more than they do their country.

How does bankrupting the nation equate with "loving" their country?

The health insurance proposal currently on the table has been shown by the CBO to REDUCE the deficit.

Perhaps you can explain to us all how that is "bankrupting the country"?

When has ANY program...project the gov did come in at budget? Medicare costs 9 times the proposed cost. Social Security is broke (because the people that promised to "take care of the elderly"...lied). Medicaid and Medicare are in terrible shape (if fraud is so bad in these programs, do you think the gov could have fixed them before moving to corrupt another "helpful" gov program)?
Then, take a look at what this will do to tax revenues: check the history: when taxes increase, gov collections of taxes decrease. When taxes decrease, gov collections of taxes increases. "This gov" is printing money, devaluing the dollar (and the worth of your paycheck). Our gov is approaching a national debt, the size of the GDP. The interest on that is astronomical.
This is a new program, untried; it will require: new departments, new overseerers, new administration, new quality control sections, etc. Once the program is in place, it will be discovered that none of the "planned" personnel are enough, the size of the people added will be doubled (or more). Fraud will be rampant (see welfare, medicare, medicaid), and then more gov will be required to "check" the fraud. Those people will need administrators, clerks, and managers, so the size (AND COSTS) will increase...again).
You are willing to put your "faith" in the gov on the WORD (not in writing, not a contract) of politicians. If that is so, just send me your money; I will take care of you. Trust me (the same thing the gov is telling you).

 

[maineman]

how the hell did you miss what Dude was saying?.....he wasnt talking about the voters in Conn. dumbass....he was talking about how the parties will say this rep is being "rational" because he/she agrees with us,while throwing a disagreeing rep under the bus for being "rational" while agreeing with the other side.....

Actually I was pointing (like it matters) that the national Democratic party threw its support behind Lieberman's challenger in the primary, forcing him to run as an independent. It has little to do with voters in CT.

i know that and you know that....the guy in Maine....forget about it...

"threw its support"? People talk about Snowe being a RINO.... well...Lieberman was a DINO. Why SHOULDN'T the party throw their support behind a real democrat instead on one who is a democrat in name only? And do you really think that, if the democrats in CT really loved the way Joe was representing them in the Senate, they would have given a damn about what a bunch of outsiders from the DNC had to say about it?

In Maine, Oly Snowe and Susan Collins are looked on nationally as RINOS... and the hard core evangelical conservative wing of the Maine republican party always talks about running someone against them in the primaries.... but Oly and Susan keep winning, because they both represent the majority of republicans IN MAINE better than any right winger ever could.

Lieberman lost because he quit being representative of the democratic base in CT...and he did that by sucking BUsh's ass about the war in Iraq. I applaud my party for asking its candidates to run on its platform, and I applaud CT democrats for doing the right thing.

 

[logical4u]

What have I learned recently....40% of all the money that the Federal Government takes in now as taxes
is used to pay.....just the interest on the massive loans the government has taken on.This health care
nonsense better not cost us any more money.

Actually it's 25%, and yes that is paid on interest on the federal debt created under the Reagan, Bush and Bush adminstrations.

As far as the health bill goes, it's estimated to save on the deficit, not add.

Funny, you didn't add the Clinton admin.

 

[maineman]

you have never worked for the Govt....have you?

I have....25 years.... your point?

i have for 30....and to say the Govt.Rep is looking out for YOUR interest is absolute BULLSHIT....

I always did what I did while in government service with citizens in mind. Maybe you should find other employment which would then improve the percentages of those remaining who DO look out for the interests of the citizens.

 

[The Rabbi]

What have I learned recently....40% of all the money that the Federal Government takes in now as taxes
is used to pay.....just the interest on the massive loans the government has taken on.This health care
nonsense better not cost us any more money.

Actually it's 25%, and yes that is paid on interest on the federal debt created under the Reagan, Bush and Bush adminstrations.

As far as the health bill goes, it's estimated to save on the deficit, not add.

Funny, you didn't add the Clinton admin.

Nor all the administrations that preceded Reagan. It wasn't like reagan inherited a deficit free country.
ANyway, anyone who really believes this plan will save the government money needs to send me $15.95 for a free pamphlet on how to stop out of control gov't spending.

 

[Harry Dresden]

I have....25 years.... your point?

i have for 30....and to say the Govt.Rep is looking out for YOUR interest is absolute BULLSHIT....

I always did what I did while in government service with citizens in mind. Maybe you should find other employment which would then improve the percentages of those remaining who DO look out for the interests of the citizens.

everything goes right over your head...doesnt it?....if you think that the great majority in Govt management(and that is who we are discussing,not me or you) think about the citizens interest is any different than any manager in the private sector then you sir are a fucking idiot and sure as hell did not pay attention to what was going on around you while working there....

 

[Harry Dresden]

Actually I was pointing (like it matters) that the national Democratic party threw its support behind Lieberman's challenger in the primary, forcing him to run as an independent. It has little to do with voters in CT.

i know that and you know that....the guy in Maine....forget about it...

"threw its support"? People talk about Snowe being a RINO.... well...Lieberman was a DINO. Why SHOULDN'T the party throw their support behind a real democrat instead on one who is a democrat in name only? And do you really think that, if the democrats in CT really loved the way Joe was representing them in the Senate, they would have given a damn about what a bunch of outsiders from the DNC had to say about it?

In Maine, Oly Snowe and Susan Collins are looked on nationally as RINOS... and the hard core evangelical conservative wing of the Maine republican party always talks about running someone against them in the primaries.... but Oly and Susan keep winning, because they both represent the majority of republicans IN MAINE better than any right winger ever could.

Lieberman lost because he quit being representative of the democratic base in CT...and he did that by sucking BUsh's ass about the war in Iraq. I applaud my party for asking its candidates to run on its platform, and I applaud CT democrats for doing the right thing.

once again right over your head........

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Another GOP senator open to health overhaul - Health care reform- msnbc.com

...Wednesday, Snowe tackled the most divisive issue still on the table: creation of a government insurance plan that would compete with private ones.

While emphasizing that she still opposes the so-called public option, Snowe said in a nationally broadcast interview that she could foresee a government-run plan that would "kick in" if private insurers failed to live up to expectations that they keep premiums in check.

"I think the government would have a disproportionate advantage" in the event of a government-run option, Snowe acknowledged. At the same time, she added, "I want to make sure the insurance industry performs, and that's why we eliminate many egregious practices."

If the industry didn't follow through on congressionally-mandated changes aimed at making health care more affordable, she said, "then you could have the public option kick in immediately."

Snowe previously had proposed using the public option as an incentive, or a threat, to private insurers. This "trigger" option, or some version of it, has survived the bitter debate and scrutiny to remain a viable option for compromise...

Have a possible Public Option that would only kick in if the Private Insurers fail to meet their promises?

Now, I have to say, that is an excellent idea.

Private Insurers would never let a Public Option happen if they could avoid it, and so they would have to start being responsible.

She is not a real republican. Every hear of a RINO?

 

[maineman]

another gop senator open to health overhaul - health care reform- msnbc.com

...wednesday, snowe tackled the most divisive issue still on the table: Creation of a government insurance plan that would compete with private ones.

While emphasizing that she still opposes the so-called public option, snowe said in a nationally broadcast interview that she could foresee a government-run plan that would "kick in" if private insurers failed to live up to expectations that they keep premiums in check.

"i think the government would have a disproportionate advantage" in the event of a government-run option, snowe acknowledged. At the same time, she added, "i want to make sure the insurance industry performs, and that's why we eliminate many egregious practices."

if the industry didn't follow through on congressionally-mandated changes aimed at making health care more affordable, she said, "then you could have the public option kick in immediately."

snowe previously had proposed using the public option as an incentive, or a threat, to private insurers. This "trigger" option, or some version of it, has survived the bitter debate and scrutiny to remain a viable option for compromise...

have a possible public option that would only kick in if the private insurers fail to meet their promises?

Now, i have to say, that is an excellent idea.

Private insurers would never let a public option happen if they could avoid it, and so they would have to start being responsible.

she is not a real republican. Every hear of a rino?

post #83

 

[Meister]

Actually I was pointing (like it matters) that the national Democratic party threw its support behind Lieberman's challenger in the primary, forcing him to run as an independent. It has little to do with voters in CT.

i know that and you know that....the guy in Maine....forget about it...

"threw its support"? People talk about Snowe being a RINO.... well...Lieberman was a DINO. Why SHOULDN'T the party throw their support behind a real democrat instead on one who is a democrat in name only? And do you really think that, if the democrats in CT really loved the way Joe was representing them in the Senate, they would have given a damn about what a bunch of outsiders from the DNC had to say about it?

In Maine, Oly Snowe and Susan Collins are looked on nationally as RINOS... and the hard core evangelical conservative wing of the Maine republican party always talks about running someone against them in the primaries.... but Oly and Susan keep winning, because they both represent the majority of republicans IN MAINE better than any right winger ever could.

Lieberman lost because he quit being representative of the democratic base in CT...and he did that by sucking BUsh's ass about the war in Iraq. I applaud my party for asking its candidates to run on its platform, and I applaud CT democrats for doing the right thing.

Lieberman lost the support of the democrat politicians because he was for the war in Iraq. Be honest with yourself, for the love of God. The guy voted 90% of the time with the democrats. The people of his great state saw that, and voted him in as an Independent. That tells you what kind of person he is. I just love how a fairy tale gets started.

 

[maineman]

i know that and you know that....the guy in Maine....forget about it...

"threw its support"? People talk about Snowe being a RINO.... well...Lieberman was a DINO. Why SHOULDN'T the party throw their support behind a real democrat instead on one who is a democrat in name only? And do you really think that, if the democrats in CT really loved the way Joe was representing them in the Senate, they would have given a damn about what a bunch of outsiders from the DNC had to say about it?

In Maine, Oly Snowe and Susan Collins are looked on nationally as RINOS... and the hard core evangelical conservative wing of the Maine republican party always talks about running someone against them in the primaries.... but Oly and Susan keep winning, because they both represent the majority of republicans IN MAINE better than any right winger ever could.

Lieberman lost because he quit being representative of the democratic base in CT...and he did that by sucking Bush's ass about the war in Iraq. I applaud my party for asking its candidates to run on its platform, and I applaud CT democrats for doing the right thing.

Lieberman lost the support of the democrat politicians because he was for the war in Iraq. Be honest with yourself, for the love of God. The guy voted 90% of the time with the democrats. The people of his great state saw that, and voted him in as an Independent. That tells you what kind of person he is. I just love how a fairy tale gets started.

PLEASE read the bolded enlarged sentence of mine above... and then don't EVER question my honesty or my intelligence again. The PEOPLE of CT are made up of democrats, republicans and independents. As it turned out, the republicans and some of the independents and moderate to conservative leaning democrats were FOR the war in Iraq... and they voted for Lieberman in the general election. There is no fairy tale here at all. Lieberman quit representing the base of his party and they decided not to nominate him. That is their right to do... and, as I said, I applaud them for forcing their candidates to run on their platform of beliefs. Anyone running as a democrat from Connecticut OUGHT to represent the beliefs of a majority of democrats in Conncecticut. period.

 

[Meister]

"threw its support"? People talk about Snowe being a RINO.... well...Lieberman was a DINO. Why SHOULDN'T the party throw their support behind a real democrat instead on one who is a democrat in name only? And do you really think that, if the democrats in CT really loved the way Joe was representing them in the Senate, they would have given a damn about what a bunch of outsiders from the DNC had to say about it?

In Maine, Oly Snowe and Susan Collins are looked on nationally as RINOS... and the hard core evangelical conservative wing of the Maine republican party always talks about running someone against them in the primaries.... but Oly and Susan keep winning, because they both represent the majority of republicans IN MAINE better than any right winger ever could.

Lieberman lost because he quit being representative of the democratic base in CT...and he did that by sucking Bush's ass about the war in Iraq. I applaud my party for asking its candidates to run on its platform, and I applaud CT democrats for doing the right thing.

Lieberman lost the support of the democrat politicians because he was for the war in Iraq. Be honest with yourself, for the love of God. The guy voted 90% of the time with the democrats. The people of his great state saw that, and voted him in as an Independent. That tells you what kind of person he is. I just love how a fairy tale gets started.

PLEASE read the bolded enlarged sentence of mine above... and then don't EVER question my honesty or my intelligence again. The PEOPLE of CT are made up of democrats, republicans and independents. As it turned out, the republicans and some of the independents and moderate to conservative leaning democrats were FOR the war in Iraq... and they voted for Lieberman in the general election. There is no fairy tale here at all. Lieberman quit representing the base of his party and they decided not to nominate him. That is their right to do... and, as I said, I applaud them for forcing their candidates to run on their platform of beliefs. Anyone running as a democrat from Connecticut OUGHT to represent the beliefs of a majority of democrats in Conncecticut. period.

Lieberman was for the war....and that alone is why they turned their back on him. Lieberman didn't QUIT representing the base of the party. He voted with them
90% of the time....Does that sound like he quit representing the party???????
I just love how you lefties talk about diversity, and prove that you are anything but.

mainman....you may not be telling a fairy tale, but it's a doozy of a yarn.

 

[maineman]

Lieberman lost the support of the democrat politicians because he was for the war in Iraq. Be honest with yourself, for the love of God. The guy voted 90% of the time with the democrats. The people of his great state saw that, and voted him in as an Independent. That tells you what kind of person he is. I just love how a fairy tale gets started.

PLEASE read the bolded enlarged sentence of mine above... and then don't EVER question my honesty or my intelligence again. The PEOPLE of CT are made up of democrats, republicans and independents. As it turned out, the republicans and some of the independents and moderate to conservative leaning democrats were FOR the war in Iraq... and they voted for Lieberman in the general election. There is no fairy tale here at all. Lieberman quit representing the base of his party and they decided not to nominate him. That is their right to do... and, as I said, I applaud them for forcing their candidates to run on their platform of beliefs. Anyone running as a democrat from Connecticut OUGHT to represent the beliefs of a majority of democrats in Conncecticut. period.

Lieberman was for the war....and that alone is why they turned their back on him. Lieberman didn't QUIT representing the base of the party. He voted with them
90% of the time....Does that sound like he quit representing the party???????
I just love how you lefties talk about diversity, and prove that you are anything but.

mainman....you may not be telling a fairy tale, but it's a doozy of a yarn.

if THE single most important issue for the base of the party was the Iraq war, all of Lieberman's votes on issues of lesser importance are fairly irrelevant.

If I ask you for an omelet, and you bring me the salt and the pepper and the scallions and the shredded cheese, but you don't bring any EGGS, I won't be impressed with all of the ancilliary ingredients.

 

[Vast LWC]

What have I learned recently....40% of all the money that the Federal Government takes in now as taxes
is used to pay.....just the interest on the massive loans the government has taken on.This health care
nonsense better not cost us any more money.

Actually it's 25%, and yes that is paid on interest on the federal debt created under the Reagan, Bush and Bush adminstrations.

As far as the health bill goes, it's estimated to save on the deficit, not add.

Funny, you didn't add the Clinton admin.

That's because the increase in the debt under the Clinton administration was equal to the amount of 8 years of interest on the pre-existing debt.

Now, I'm not sure what the APR on the national debt averaged out to in the period of the Clinton administration, but the amounut of the debt was 4 Trillion dollars when Clinton took office. Let's break down the numbers

Since the US has a good credit rating, et's say the APR was very low, like 4%, I'd say that's a pretty conservative estimate....

That's 160 Billion a year in interest. 160 Billion x 8 = 1.28 Trillion Dollars.

The debt under Clinton increased by 1.2 Trillion dollars.

Meaning that no new debt was incurred under the Clinton administration.

 

[Vast LWC]

Actually it's 25%, and yes that is paid on interest on the federal debt created under the Reagan, Bush and Bush adminstrations.

As far as the health bill goes, it's estimated to save on the deficit, not add.

Funny, you didn't add the Clinton admin.

Nor all the administrations that preceded Reagan. It wasn't like reagan inherited a deficit free country.

Yes, I did. He just edited the quote. Here's the original:

In fact, 11.1 Trillion dollars of the debt was either run up during the last three Republican administrations, or caused by interest on that debt.

of the remaining 800 billion, 400 Billion can be attributed to the 4 presidents before Reagan, and another 400 Billion is attributable to Obama, mainly due to the Stimulus package.

Mr Reagan himself ran up about 4 Trillion dollars of that debt, not including interest, and George W Bush contributed close to 7 Trillion, including the deficit that existed at the beginning of this year, before Obama took office.

Of the 1.6 Trillion Dollars added to the debt this year, 1.2 Trillion existed on January 7th, one month BEFORE Obama took office.

ANyway, anyone who really believes this plan will save the government money needs to send me $15.95 for a free pamphlet on how to stop out of control gov't spending.

Hey, I'm just quoting the non-partisan group that you righties like to quote so often when they talk about bad numbers for the Democrats. You're the guy with the apparent double-standard.

 

[Vast LWC]

Now that the democrats scratched out one republican so they can call it bipartisan, there are no republicans in the closed door meetings. Sounds like she was the token. The bill that was passed is only going to be a shell by the time it is actually written on a piece of paper. Everyone talking about the cost being well below a trillion dollars....well that is going to be a little pipe dream by the time it's written. One more thing....just how much pork is going to be in this bill to buy Senate votes to get the number that they need? Yeah, the government really does have our best interests at heart, and if you believe that, I have some good swamp property to sell you. I'll send pictures.
Sounds like obama isn't going to be so transparent as he promised.

Ah yes..."Hope and Change"....my ass

What "Closed Door Meetings".

All proposals have been discussed, at length, in bipartisan committee. Thus Snowe was the swing vote in the bipartisan Senate Finance Committee.

How do you think the Republicans have been able to launch all these attacks on the proposals if they aren't allowed to hear them?

 

[Vast LWC]

And as far as Lieberman goes, I'll admit that I personally was a bit pissed at him for the Bush/war thing,

However, that being said, he won an election in his home state after he acted the way he did, therefore he was representing the will of his constituency. Which is what the is paid to do.

So I can't really continue to hold it against him.

 

[maineman]

And as far as Lieberman goes, I'll admit that I personally was a bit pissed at him for the Bush/war thing,

However, that being said, he won an election in his home state after he acted the way he did, therefore he was representing the will of his constituency. Which is what the is paid to do.

So I can't really continue to hold it against him.

He won the election, but not the democratic party nomination. Hell... I still think that if we ever got one more democrat in the senate by whatever means, we should strip Joe of his committee chair and boot him out of our caucus. He may very well represent the will of the people of Connecticut, but he does NOT represent the will of the Democrats of Connecticut. If I were living in CT, I would be looking to groom a top shelf candidate to run against him in 2012 and send him packing. f**k him.

 

[Meister]

Now that the democrats scratched out one republican so they can call it bipartisan, there are no republicans in the closed door meetings. Sounds like she was the token. The bill that was passed is only going to be a shell by the time it is actually written on a piece of paper. Everyone talking about the cost being well below a trillion dollars....well that is going to be a little pipe dream by the time it's written. One more thing....just how much pork is going to be in this bill to buy Senate votes to get the number that they need? Yeah, the government really does have our best interests at heart, and if you believe that, I have some good swamp property to sell you. I'll send pictures.
Sounds like obama isn't going to be so transparent as he promised.

Ah yes..."Hope and Change"....my ass

What "Closed Door Meetings".

All proposals have been discussed, at length, in bipartisan committee. Thus Snowe was the swing vote in the bipartisan Senate Finance Committee.

How do you think the Republicans have been able to launch all these attacks on the proposals if they aren't allowed to hear them?

Where in hell do you think they are now with the bill? Closed doors...geeze.
That bill is going to have amendments....and costs added to it, before it ever hits the Senate floor.