I have a question for a person who is Pro-Life

rosends

Gold Member
Oct 19, 2012
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I have a serious question for someone who is of the belief that abortion is wrong because actual life begins at conception.

I am not judging sides and my own personal view is unimportant. Also, my question is not meant to be facetious -- I really have worked through the moral implications mentioned here, so I ask anyone who is truly and sincerely pro-life to please give me a few seconds, consider what I am asking and help me understand your position in this regard:

As you feel that life begins at conception, and the fetus needs protections on the level of any other human being against harm and not just death, would you accept the notion that alcohol, excessive sugary foods and smoking should be criminalized for pregnant women as they lead to fetal damage? Can a woman who is pro-life be ethically consistent and yet smoke during pregnancy?

As an extension, should any behavior the woman exhibits be considered as if she was holding a 1 year old in her arms so that a charge of child endangerment could be sustained if the woman acts in a reckless way which might endanger the fetus?

These are serious questions which, to my mind are logical continuations of the idea that the fetus needs protections as a person.

Thanks in advance for thoughtful answers.
 
I have a serious question for someone who is of the belief that abortion is wrong because actual life begins at conception.

I am not judging sides and my own personal view is unimportant. Also, my question is not meant to be facetious -- I really have worked through the moral implications mentioned here, so I ask anyone who is truly and sincerely pro-life to please give me a few seconds, consider what I am asking and help me understand your position in this regard:

As you feel that life begins at conception, and the fetus needs protections on the level of any other human being against harm and not just death, would you accept the notion that alcohol, excessive sugary foods and smoking should be criminalized for pregnant women as they lead to fetal damage? Can a woman who is pro-life be ethically consistent and yet smoke during pregnancy?

As an extension, should any behavior the woman exhibits be considered as if she was holding a 1 year old in her arms so that a charge of child endangerment could be sustained if the woman acts in a reckless way which might endanger the fetus?

These are serious questions which, to my mind are logical continuations of the idea that the fetus needs protections as a person.

Thanks in advance for thoughtful answers.

sugary foods ??..get a grip..if a woman is seriously abusing a substance that will in all likeliehood will cause serious damage to a unborn child i would hope their would be intervention from a mental health authority because clearly the woman is not well
 
I have a serious question for someone who is of the belief that abortion is wrong because actual life begins at conception.

I am not judging sides and my own personal view is unimportant. Also, my question is not meant to be facetious -- I really have worked through the moral implications mentioned here, so I ask anyone who is truly and sincerely pro-life to please give me a few seconds, consider what I am asking and help me understand your position in this regard:

As you feel that life begins at conception, and the fetus needs protections on the level of any other human being against harm and not just death, would you accept the notion that alcohol, excessive sugary foods and smoking should be criminalized for pregnant women as they lead to fetal damage? Can a woman who is pro-life be ethically consistent and yet smoke during pregnancy?

As an extension, should any behavior the woman exhibits be considered as if she was holding a 1 year old in her arms so that a charge of child endangerment could be sustained if the woman acts in a reckless way which might endanger the fetus?

These are serious questions which, to my mind are logical continuations of the idea that the fetus needs protections as a person.

Thanks in advance for thoughtful answers.

sugary foods ??..get a grip..if a woman is seriously abusing a substance that will in all likeliehood will cause serious damage to a unborn child i would hope their would be intervention from a mental health authority because clearly the woman is not well

admittedly, I am taking it to an extreme but excessive weight gain during pregnancy is a risk factor for gestational diabetes which puts a child at risk. And if we can say that too much junk/unhealthy food is not good for a "person", and were she feeding this to her older children, she would be held accountable for malnourishment, would the same be true here?
 
I know you think that you thought this out before posting it. But please think a little longer.

We as human beings should not be in the business of advocating murder in or out of the womb.

Abortion is unfortunately legal. So your argument to make getting fat and eating too much sugar illegal, is just dumb
 
I know you think that you thought this out before posting it. But please think a little longer.

We as human beings should not be in the business of advocating murder in or out of the womb.

Abortion is unfortunately legal. So your argument to make getting fat and eating too much sugar illegal, is just dumb

the question was very clearly thought out. if you feel fixated on the extreme argument regarding gestational diabetes then skip it. i am asking about an ethical position and its implications. if you cannot work with me and provide a thoughtful answer then just move to the next post.
 
I know you think that you thought this out before posting it. But please think a little longer.

We as human beings should not be in the business of advocating murder in or out of the womb.

Abortion is unfortunately legal. So your argument to make getting fat and eating too much sugar illegal, is just dumb

the question was very clearly thought out. if you feel fixated on the extreme argument regarding gestational diabetes then skip it. i am asking about an ethical position and its implications. if you cannot work with me and provide a thoughtful answer then just move to the next post.

Fixated on the extreme argument? You are the one that posed the question dear, not me :eusa_whistle:
 
I know you think that you thought this out before posting it. But please think a little longer.

We as human beings should not be in the business of advocating murder in or out of the womb.

Abortion is unfortunately legal. So your argument to make getting fat and eating too much sugar illegal, is just dumb

the question was very clearly thought out. if you feel fixated on the extreme argument regarding gestational diabetes then skip it. i am asking about an ethical position and its implications. if you cannot work with me and provide a thoughtful answer then just move to the next post.

Fixated on the extreme argument? You are the one that posed the question dear, not me :eusa_whistle:

let me try again -- you seem troubled by the aspect of my question about the foods. if so, i ask you to skip that part. the other prongs hold -- if a child in utero deserves protection against harm, then is there an ethical way to allow smoking by a pregnant women?
 
the question was very clearly thought out. if you feel fixated on the extreme argument regarding gestational diabetes then skip it. i am asking about an ethical position and its implications. if you cannot work with me and provide a thoughtful answer then just move to the next post.

Fixated on the extreme argument? You are the one that posed the question dear, not me :eusa_whistle:

let me try again -- you seem troubled by the aspect of my question about the foods. if so, i ask you to skip that part. the other prongs hold -- if a child in utero deserves protection against harm, then is there an ethical way to allow smoking by a pregnant women?

Yeah, it is called freedom to "choose". A word that most like to tout as their own. But she does have the freedom to choose. An informed choice at that.

Most moms I have known, choose to quit while pregnant, if they do not, you are claiming they should be prosecuted for something? Or sent to hell? I am not sure what you are trying to do here
 
Fixated on the extreme argument? You are the one that posed the question dear, not me :eusa_whistle:

let me try again -- you seem troubled by the aspect of my question about the foods. if so, i ask you to skip that part. the other prongs hold -- if a child in utero deserves protection against harm, then is there an ethical way to allow smoking by a pregnant women?

Yeah, it is called freedom to "choose". A word that most like to tout as their own. But she does have the freedom to choose. An informed choice at that.

Most moms I have known, choose to quit while pregnant, if they do not, you are claiming they should be prosecuted for something? Or sent to hell? I am not sure what you are trying to do here

I am simply trying to establish an ethical platform and see how it applies to other cases. It is a basic practice when testing ethics -- it developed from a classroom discussion about the ethics of pre-genetic testing. We started wondering about the consequences of considering the fetus as a person. I am not talking about "going to hell" but about ethical consistency.
 
Oh I see, so this is your homework.

"Consequences of seeing a fetus as a person"?

How about you look at where society is on an ethical level, and every other level as well, and if you are honest ...you should be able to figure out the consequences of NOT seeing a fetus as a person

Life has been devalued, no longer sacred, seen as an inconvenience
 
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Oh I see, so this is your homework.

"Consequences of seeing a fetus as a person"?

How about you look at where society and if you are honest ...you should be able to figure out the consequences of NOT seeing a fetus as a person

Life has been devalued, no longer sacred, seen as an inconvenience

no, this is not my homework. I'm the teacher. I'm continuing the thoughts developed with my class (a group of high school seniors in a class called "Literature, Politics and Society", after a discussion of Brave New World by Huxley). I can see that you believe in the right to life of the fetus but you can't help me understand the ethical implications. Thank you for your time.
 
Oh I see, so this is your homework.

"Consequences of seeing a fetus as a person"?

How about you look at where society and if you are honest ...you should be able to figure out the consequences of NOT seeing a fetus as a person

Life has been devalued, no longer sacred, seen as an inconvenience

no, this is not my homework. I'm the teacher. I'm continuing the thoughts developed with my class (a group of high school seniors in a class called "Literature, Politics and Society", after a discussion of Brave New World by Huxley). I can see that you believe in the right to life of the fetus but you can't help me understand the ethical implications. Thank you for your time.

Ask yourself some hard questions

Is valuing the life of your students important to you?

Is the life of those potential students not as important?

It starts at valuing life. If you cannot do that, I cannot help but feel sad for our future
 
Oh I see, so this is your homework.

"Consequences of seeing a fetus as a person"?

How about you look at where society and if you are honest ...you should be able to figure out the consequences of NOT seeing a fetus as a person

Life has been devalued, no longer sacred, seen as an inconvenience

no, this is not my homework. I'm the teacher. I'm continuing the thoughts developed with my class (a group of high school seniors in a class called "Literature, Politics and Society", after a discussion of Brave New World by Huxley). I can see that you believe in the right to life of the fetus but you can't help me understand the ethical implications. Thank you for your time.

Ask yourself some hard questions

Is valuing the life of your students important to you?

Is the life of those potential students not as important?

It starts at valuing life. If you cannot do that, I cannot help but feel sad for our future

just a quick point here -- you do not know where I stand on the abortion debate so your assumptions about what I can and can't do are flawed. this is a thought exercise, not a political or moral stance. if you can't wrap your mind around a complex ethical issue then simply stand aside.
 
no, this is not my homework. I'm the teacher. I'm continuing the thoughts developed with my class (a group of high school seniors in a class called "Literature, Politics and Society", after a discussion of Brave New World by Huxley). I can see that you believe in the right to life of the fetus but you can't help me understand the ethical implications. Thank you for your time.

Ask yourself some hard questions

Is valuing the life of your students important to you?

Is the life of those potential students not as important?

It starts at valuing life. If you cannot do that, I cannot help but feel sad for our future

just a quick point here -- you do not know where I stand on the abortion debate so your assumptions about what I can and can't do are flawed. this is a thought exercise, not a political or moral stance. if you can't wrap your mind around a complex ethical issue then simply stand aside.

I did not claim to know what your stand is, did I?

I tried to give you a couple of ideas, why did you bother making a thread and posing questions if you do not want the hard questions and/or answers. That tells me all I need to know.

Good luck with your search for ethical answers to an unethical act.
 
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Ask yourself some hard questions

Is valuing the life of your students important to you?

Is the life of those potential students not as important?

It starts at valuing life. If you cannot do that, I cannot help but feel sad for our future

just a quick point here -- you do not know where I stand on the abortion debate so your assumptions about what I can and can't do are flawed. this is a thought exercise, not a political or moral stance. if you can't wrap your mind around a complex ethical issue then simply stand aside.

I did not claim to know what your stand is, did I?

I tried to give you a couple of ideas, why did you bother making a thread and posing questions if you do not want the hard questions and/or answers. That tells me all I need to know.

Good luck with your search for ethical answers to an unethical act.

you gave me loads of irrelevant ideas. I posed a specific question about a particular case and its implications and you gave me your general view without addressing the specific thing I asked. this is very telling.
 
I have a serious question for someone who is of the belief that abortion is wrong because actual life begins at conception.

I am not judging sides and my own personal view is unimportant. Also, my question is not meant to be facetious -- I really have worked through the moral implications mentioned here, so I ask anyone who is truly and sincerely pro-life to please give me a few seconds, consider what I am asking and help me understand your position in this regard:

As you feel that life begins at conception, and the fetus needs protections on the level of any other human being against harm and not just death, would you accept the notion that alcohol, excessive sugary foods and smoking should be criminalized for pregnant women as they lead to fetal damage? Can a woman who is pro-life be ethically consistent and yet smoke during pregnancy?

As an extension, should any behavior the woman exhibits be considered as if she was holding a 1 year old in her arms so that a charge of child endangerment could be sustained if the woman acts in a reckless way which might endanger the fetus?

These are serious questions which, to my mind are logical continuations of the idea that the fetus needs protections as a person.

Thanks in advance for thoughtful answers.

It's a trick question isn't it? What you are suggesting is an incredible government control over the lives of pregnant women. All pro-lifers are suggesting is to not kill the babies.
 
I know you think that you thought this out before posting it. But please think a little longer.

We as human beings should not be in the business of advocating murder in or out of the womb.

Abortion is unfortunately legal. So your argument to make getting fat and eating too much sugar illegal, is just dumb

If your weight gain and sugar consumption may cause harm to the fetus, then it should be illegal, because it would be child endangerment/abuse. If you don't think so, then you must not believe a fetus is a person, as is the view of most pro lifers.
 
It's a trick question isn't it? What you are suggesting is an incredible government control over the lives of pregnant women. All pro-lifers are suggesting is to not kill the babies.

So its okay to drink while pregnant and have the baby born with fetal alcohol syndrome? Its okay to smoke and have a child that is underweight at birth?

She isn't killing her baby, but she is making it very, very ill.
 
It's a trick question isn't it? What you are suggesting is an incredible government control over the lives of pregnant women. All pro-lifers are suggesting is to not kill the babies.

So its okay to drink while pregnant and have the baby born with fetal alcohol syndrome? Its okay to smoke and have a child that is underweight at birth?

She isn't killing her baby, but she is making it very, very ill.

Do you want to lock up a diabetic who buys a box of twinkies? All pro-lifers ask is not to murder the unborn.
 

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