I find it very disturbing

[Seawytch]

Government employees are not running private businesses. They should do whatever the rules specify for their government job. Or quit.

I don't want to get into a lot of 'what ifs' here, but I don't care WHO it is. Nobody, black or white or polka dot should be forced to participate in a White Supremacist event or any other event that he/she does not wish to participate in. And THAT would be equal protection as much as non discriminatory rules are equal protection. Sell them the bouquet or the dozen doughnuts or whatever if they come into your place of business, yes. But have to go to their premises and be part of an activity that is abhorrent or wrong or immoral to you? Nope.

That should never be the law. And I don't care how any law is written or what any judge's opinion is on that. That should never be the law.

What if your business only involves going to a place. Can a plumber say no?

It's still strikes me as kind of nuts that he can't.

I don't know that it is. A backed up toilet is a health hazard. Public health is a valid interest of the state.

See, now we're getting in more special carve outs. Only some people in some businesses get to discriminate?

I have no interest in doing busines with someone who does not like me or approve of how I live. Why do you?

I often have no choice in who I do business with, Chickenfish. How lucky that you do.

 

[dblack]

I assume you don't include government employees in that, let me know if I'm wrong.

That is a side which does need to be seen. If a gay marriage is a protected event, then so is a Westboro event. An African-American caterer cannot refuse to cater a KKK rally. This is about equal protection, not special protection. At the same time, we have the issue of state rights. If it is a valid right of the state to make discrimination illegal, where is the end of that right? For DBlack, that is simple. He thinks the state does not have the right at all. But for those of us who think it does, how far does it go? Personally, I think there is no limit - at least in terms of things open to the public. I see nothing in the Constitution which creates a limit.

But let me turn it around to explore this further. For those who think the florist is wrong. If the florist was black and the event was a local chapter of the White Supremacists of America chapter, would she be in violation of that law for refusing service?

Government employees are not running private businesses. They should do whatever the rules specify for their government job. Or quit.

I don't want to get into a lot of 'what ifs' here, but I don't care WHO it is. Nobody, black or white or polka dot should be forced to participate in a White Supremacist event or any other event that he/she does not wish to participate in. And THAT would be equal protection as much as non discriminatory rules are equal protection. Sell them the bouquet or the dozen doughnuts or whatever if they come into your place of business, yes. But have to go to their premises and be part of an activity that is abhorrent or wrong or immoral to you? Nope.

That should never be the law. And I don't care how any law is written or what any judge's opinion is on that. That should never be the law.

What if your business only involves going to a place. Can a plumber say no?

It's still strikes me as kind of nuts that he can't.

I don't know that it is. A backed up toilet is a health hazard. Public health is a valid interest of the state.

See, now we're getting in more special carve outs. Only some people in some businesses get to discriminate?

That's what disturbs me most about all of this. We're moving away from government that protects our freedom to one that tells us how to live.

 

[Redfish]

What if your business only involves going to a place. Can a plumber say no?

It's still strikes me as kind of nuts that he can't.

I don't know that it is. A backed up toilet is a health hazard. Public health is a valid interest of the state.

See, now we're getting in more special carve outs. Only some people in some businesses get to discriminate?

I have no interest in doing busines with someone who does not like me or approve of how I live. Why do you?

I often have no choice in who I do business with, Chickenfish. How lucky that you do.

You don't? really? your town only has one baker, grocer, gas station, dry cleaner, restaurant?

That was really a stupid statement, seabiscuit.

 

[Redfish]

Government employees are not running private businesses. They should do whatever the rules specify for their government job. Or quit.

I don't want to get into a lot of 'what ifs' here, but I don't care WHO it is. Nobody, black or white or polka dot should be forced to participate in a White Supremacist event or any other event that he/she does not wish to participate in. And THAT would be equal protection as much as non discriminatory rules are equal protection. Sell them the bouquet or the dozen doughnuts or whatever if they come into your place of business, yes. But have to go to their premises and be part of an activity that is abhorrent or wrong or immoral to you? Nope.

That should never be the law. And I don't care how any law is written or what any judge's opinion is on that. That should never be the law.

What if your business only involves going to a place. Can a plumber say no?

It's still strikes me as kind of nuts that he can't.

I don't know that it is. A backed up toilet is a health hazard. Public health is a valid interest of the state.

See, now we're getting in more special carve outs. Only some people in some businesses get to discriminate?

That's what disturbs me most about all of this. We're moving away from government that protects our freedom to one that tells us how to live.

George Orwell, Ayn Rand--------------------------they saw it coming and wrote about it.

 

[PratchettFan]

What if your business only involves going to a place. Can a plumber say no?

It's still strikes me as kind of nuts that he can't.

I don't know that it is. A backed up toilet is a health hazard. Public health is a valid interest of the state.

Yeah. That get's to the core question. Should people be subject to the 'valid interests' of the state, or should it be the other way around.

It really is the core - I agree. My answer is yes - to both. It is not a one way street. The state must look to the rights of the individual, but the individual does not live in a vacuum and must look to the rights of the state.

 

[rightwinger]

It's still strikes me as kind of nuts that he can't.

I don't know that it is. A backed up toilet is a health hazard. Public health is a valid interest of the state.

See, now we're getting in more special carve outs. Only some people in some businesses get to discriminate?

I have no interest in doing busines with someone who does not like me or approve of how I live. Why do you?

I often have no choice in who I do business with, Chickenfish. How lucky that you do.

You don't? really? your town only has one baker, grocer, gas station, dry cleaner, restaurant?

That was really a stupid statement, seabiscuit.

If you live in a town where 90% of the population is Southern Baptist you have little choice over who you do business with. What do you do of you are raised in a community where everyone refuses to do business with you for religious reasons?

 

[Seawytch]

It's still strikes me as kind of nuts that he can't.

I don't know that it is. A backed up toilet is a health hazard. Public health is a valid interest of the state.

See, now we're getting in more special carve outs. Only some people in some businesses get to discriminate?

I have no interest in doing busines with someone who does not like me or approve of how I live. Why do you?

I often have no choice in who I do business with, Chickenfish. How lucky that you do.

You don't? really? your town only has one baker, grocer, gas station, dry cleaner, restaurant?

That was really a stupid statement, seabiscuit.

I live an hour from any town, Chickenfish. If the septic service refuses to pump my septic, I'm shit out of luck (pun intended). If the propane service doesn't want to deliver to that house where the dykes live, I get no hot water or stove. If the only tree service in town doesn't want to top my trees, they fall on my house. Oh well...right?

 

[Redfish]

I don't know that it is. A backed up toilet is a health hazard. Public health is a valid interest of the state.

See, now we're getting in more special carve outs. Only some people in some businesses get to discriminate?

I have no interest in doing busines with someone who does not like me or approve of how I live. Why do you?

I often have no choice in who I do business with, Chickenfish. How lucky that you do.

You don't? really? your town only has one baker, grocer, gas station, dry cleaner, restaurant?

That was really a stupid statement, seabiscuit.

If you live in a town where 90% of the population is Southern Baptist you have little choice over who you do business with. What do you do of you are raised in a community where everyone refuses to do business with you for religious reasons?

move

 

[PratchettFan]

Government employees are not running private businesses. They should do whatever the rules specify for their government job. Or quit.

I don't want to get into a lot of 'what ifs' here, but I don't care WHO it is. Nobody, black or white or polka dot should be forced to participate in a White Supremacist event or any other event that he/she does not wish to participate in. And THAT would be equal protection as much as non discriminatory rules are equal protection. Sell them the bouquet or the dozen doughnuts or whatever if they come into your place of business, yes. But have to go to their premises and be part of an activity that is abhorrent or wrong or immoral to you? Nope.

That should never be the law. And I don't care how any law is written or what any judge's opinion is on that. That should never be the law.

What if your business only involves going to a place. Can a plumber say no?

It's still strikes me as kind of nuts that he can't.

I don't know that it is. A backed up toilet is a health hazard. Public health is a valid interest of the state.

See, now we're getting in more special carve outs. Only some people in some businesses get to discriminate?

That's what disturbs me most about all of this. We're moving away from government that protects our freedom to one that tells us how to live.

The government has always told us how to live. I don't see the movement.

 

[Redfish]

I don't know that it is. A backed up toilet is a health hazard. Public health is a valid interest of the state.

See, now we're getting in more special carve outs. Only some people in some businesses get to discriminate?

I have no interest in doing busines with someone who does not like me or approve of how I live. Why do you?

I often have no choice in who I do business with, Chickenfish. How lucky that you do.

You don't? really? your town only has one baker, grocer, gas station, dry cleaner, restaurant?

That was really a stupid statement, seabiscuit.

I live an hour from any town, Chickenfish. If the septic service refuses to pump my septic, I'm shit out of luck (pun intended). If the propane service doesn't want to deliver to that house where the dykes live, I get no hot water or stove. If the only tree service in town doesn't want to top my trees, they fall on my house. Oh well...right?

then I suggest that you not advertise that your house is "where the dykes live". Don't try to rub it in their faces (pun intended) and you will have no problem getting serviced (pun intended).

 

[Redfish]

What if your business only involves going to a place. Can a plumber say no?

It's still strikes me as kind of nuts that he can't.

I don't know that it is. A backed up toilet is a health hazard. Public health is a valid interest of the state.

See, now we're getting in more special carve outs. Only some people in some businesses get to discriminate?

That's what disturbs me most about all of this. We're moving away from government that protects our freedom to one that tells us how to live.

The government has always told us how to live. I don't see the movement.

having to abide by laws is different from being told what to believe.

 

[Seawytch]

See, now we're getting in more special carve outs. Only some people in some businesses get to discriminate?

I have no interest in doing busines with someone who does not like me or approve of how I live. Why do you?

I often have no choice in who I do business with, Chickenfish. How lucky that you do.

You don't? really? your town only has one baker, grocer, gas station, dry cleaner, restaurant?

That was really a stupid statement, seabiscuit.

I live an hour from any town, Chickenfish. If the septic service refuses to pump my septic, I'm shit out of luck (pun intended). If the propane service doesn't want to deliver to that house where the dykes live, I get no hot water or stove. If the only tree service in town doesn't want to top my trees, they fall on my house. Oh well...right?

then I suggest that you not advertise that your house is "where the dykes live". Don't try to rub it in their faces (pun intended) and you will have no problem getting serviced (pun intended).

So that's your answer, move or hide?

 

[Seawytch]

It's still strikes me as kind of nuts that he can't.

I don't know that it is. A backed up toilet is a health hazard. Public health is a valid interest of the state.

See, now we're getting in more special carve outs. Only some people in some businesses get to discriminate?

That's what disturbs me most about all of this. We're moving away from government that protects our freedom to one that tells us how to live.

The government has always told us how to live. I don't see the movement.

having to abide by laws is different from being told what to believe.

Wow...Chickenfish got one right. Abiding by Public Accommodation laws is not telling someone what to believe. Now you know why the SCOTUS doesn't buy the discrimination based on religion argument.

 

[dblack]

The government has always told us how to live. I don't see the movement.

The history is debatable, I suppose. You can definitely find flagrant violations of our rights in our nation's history. But there is a distinct difference between government focused on protecting our freedom to live as we wish, and one that tries to dictate how we should live.

 

[Foxfyre]

Nobody is born a White Supremacist. It is not a protected class.

No one is born married. The florist had no problem serving gays, she just didn't want to be involved in a gay marriage - which was against her religious beliefs. Race is a protected class and white supremacists are all about race.

This really is something which needs to be considered. Equal protection means just that. It has to be equal. If you can deny services to someone because you don't like "those people" then they can as well.

Exactly. Those who think Christian bakers should be able to discriminate regarding gay weddings need to accept that gay bakers should be able to return the favor for Christian customers.

Absolutely. Though I doubt gay bakers have a problem with Christian customers.

Even if they did, they would probably provide service to them as a practical matter. In most cases Christians will make up the lion's share of anybody's customer base.

But. . . I don't know many gay people who have a problem with Christian church functions or other events with a Christian ID. Most of the gay people I know well are Christians themselves. And most Christians wouldn't hestitate to provide services at a gay wedding or other event with a gay ID.

But for those who do have religious or other ethical or moral reasons for not attending a particular kind of event, whether those people are gay, straight, or any other brand, that should be the person's choice and not something government can dictate.

 

[Foxfyre]

Government employees are not running private businesses. They should do whatever the rules specify for their government job. Or quit.

I don't want to get into a lot of 'what ifs' here, but I don't care WHO it is. Nobody, black or white or polka dot should be forced to participate in a White Supremacist event or any other event that he/she does not wish to participate in. And THAT would be equal protection as much as non discriminatory rules are equal protection. Sell them the bouquet or the dozen doughnuts or whatever if they come into your place of business, yes. But have to go to their premises and be part of an activity that is abhorrent or wrong or immoral to you? Nope.

That should never be the law. And I don't care how any law is written or what any judge's opinion is on that. That should never be the law.

What if your business only involves going to a place. Can a plumber say no?

It's still strikes me as kind of nuts that he can't.

I don't know that it is. A backed up toilet is a health hazard. Public health is a valid interest of the state.

See, now we're getting in more special carve outs. Only some people in some businesses get to discriminate?

Yes. Where is the line? Let's say I am a doctor. I walk along the street and there is a man dressed in one of those spiffy sheets with the eye holes. The man clutches his chest suddenly and falls to the ground. Can I just step over him because I don't like his fashion sense?

The law varies on that from state to state. The problem comes that if the doctor abides by a good samaritan law and tends to the white sheeted guy and something goes wrong, can the doctor be sued? Or anybody else who assists the person? If so, then there should be no requirement that any person be required to assume that risk.

While I never completely trust Wiki to get it exactly right, there is a really good discussion on this in the Common Law section here:
Duty to rescue - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

The bottom line is that if we are each at liberty to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. should the government be given authority to require one person to be in servitude to another person in any way? The exception would be in social contract that would require a person to be non discriminatory in their business or in a legal marriage contract that assumes certain responsibilities of husband and wife to each other and to their children. The reasoning is that those entering into business or marriage willingly assume specific responsibilities by virtue of their license/contract.

So then we get to the sticky wicket of how much must be required of a person in order to be in business? And does that include forcing the person to set aside all his religious, moral, and ethical convictions?

So I solve that problem with my conviction that yes, the person should serve even the person he abhors in his own place of business. But he should not be required to provide service at an EVENT which goes against his religious, moral, or ethical convictions. To me that is a perfectly reasonable compromise to achieve equal protection under the law.

 

[rightwinger]

See, now we're getting in more special carve outs. Only some people in some businesses get to discriminate?

I have no interest in doing busines with someone who does not like me or approve of how I live. Why do you?

I often have no choice in who I do business with, Chickenfish. How lucky that you do.

You don't? really? your town only has one baker, grocer, gas station, dry cleaner, restaurant?

That was really a stupid statement, seabiscuit.

If you live in a town where 90% of the population is Southern Baptist you have little choice over who you do business with. What do you do of you are raised in a community where everyone refuses to do business with you for religious reasons?

move

Why should anyone have to move because of intolerance?
What if you are raised in that community? What if your family depends on you for support?

 

[Redfish]

,

I have no interest in doing busines with someone who does not like me or approve of how I live. Why do you?

I often have no choice in who I do business with, Chickenfish. How lucky that you do.

You don't? really? your town only has one baker, grocer, gas station, dry cleaner, restaurant?

That was really a stupid statement, seabiscuit.

If you live in a town where 90% of the population is Southern Baptist you have little choice over who you do business with. What do you do of you are raised in a community where everyone refuses to do business with you for religious reasons?

move

Why should anyone have to move because of intolerance?
What if you are raised in that community? What if your family depends on you for support?

If you lived in north korea would you try to move out? If you don't like the way a country, state, city, or community operates, find one that suits you don't demand that the others change.

What you want is dictatorial thought control enforced by a tyranical government-------thats what you are asking for and you are too dumb to even realize it.

 

[rightwinger]

,

I often have no choice in who I do business with, Chickenfish. How lucky that you do.

You don't? really? your town only has one baker, grocer, gas station, dry cleaner, restaurant?

That was really a stupid statement, seabiscuit.

If you live in a town where 90% of the population is Southern Baptist you have little choice over who you do business with. What do you do of you are raised in a community where everyone refuses to do business with you for religious reasons?

move

Why should anyone have to move because of intolerance?
What if you are raised in that community? What if your family depends on you for support?

If you lived in north korea would you try to move out? If you don't like the way a country, state, city, or community operates, find one that suits you don't demand that the others change.

What you want is dictatorial thought control enforced by a tyranical government-------thats what you are asking for and you are too dumb to even realize it.

The point is we are not North Korea

Americans should have access to any business in this country. You want to do business here, you follow the rules.

We are no longer a nation of ....We don't serve n*ggers here

 

[NYcarbineer]

,

I often have no choice in who I do business with, Chickenfish. How lucky that you do.

You don't? really? your town only has one baker, grocer, gas station, dry cleaner, restaurant?

That was really a stupid statement, seabiscuit.

If you live in a town where 90% of the population is Southern Baptist you have little choice over who you do business with. What do you do of you are raised in a community where everyone refuses to do business with you for religious reasons?

move

Why should anyone have to move because of intolerance?
What if you are raised in that community? What if your family depends on you for support?

If you lived in north korea would you try to move out? If you don't like the way a country, state, city, or community operates, find one that suits you don't demand that the others change.

What you want is dictatorial thought control enforced by a tyranical government-------thats what you are asking for and you are too dumb to even realize it.

Conservatives claimed the voting rights act of 1965 was tyranny.

You people define tyranny as anything you disagree with.