CDZ I do not understand the fascination with and demand for semi-automatic rifles

[Taz]

I'm trying to figure out why everyone gets their short and curlies in a knot when there are tons of weapons that you can't buy. So why all the fake outrage?

Are you going to place the same limits on all law enforcement agencies?

*****SMILE*****

Anyone who's into Queensryche has to be a major poofter.

You didn't answer the question...

Are you going to place those same limits on all law enforcement agencies?

*****SMILE*****

Ok Tull. That's better.

As to your question, law enforcement should never be outgunned like they are because of sales of AR15 types. They should never have to be put in that kind of harm's way, but who cares, right?

View attachment 178949

View attachment 178950

View attachment 178951

View attachment 178952

Yeah sure.... Law enforcement is outgunned.

*****SMILE*****

That’s why the guard and cops were hiding outside the school. Now you know.

 

[usmbguest5318]

As to your question, law enforcement should never be outgunned like they are because of sales of AR15 types. They should never have to be put in that kind of harm's way, but who cares, right?

Nor should any law abiding gun owner be outgunned by the Government thst answers to him.

The gov has nukes and all the other shit they don’t allow you to buy. Wake up brah, you’re seriously outgunned already.

Actually if the vendor has the appropriate liscences... He can. Or do you think there’s some magical workshop somewhere where elves secretly fill the governments inventory?

Actually, no vendor has a license to sell nukes, AA missiles... I dare you to find one.

Oops... found one... Got your wallet ready?

It's for my neighbor, Osama bin Falafal. Do they deliver to Beverly Hills?

Call and ask them.

Give me the number and website.

The gov has nukes and all the other shit they don’t allow you to buy. Wake up brah, you’re seriously outgunned already.

Better to die on my feet than live on my knees.

See post 56: CDZ - I do not understand the fascination with and demand for semi-automatic rifles.

 

[Taz]

Actually, no vendor has a license to sell nukes, AA missiles... I dare you to find one.

So... elves it is then?

... to sell to ordinary US citizens. There, now you won't look so foolish by pretending you don't know what we're talking about.

Define ordinary...Ordinarily we all are obliged to follow the same rules...

Ya, like having your 2nd Amendment right infringed on because we're not allowed to buy or order a nuke at the local weapons store.

You cannot afford a nuke. And you know it. Your argument is irrelevant. No local weapons store has enough money to keep one in stock. Again... Your argument is irrelevant. You might as well get pissed that your local horse breeder can’t source you a unicorn....

It’s against the law to own a nuke. Your rights have been infringed. Now you know.

 

[Taz]

The gov has nukes and all the other shit they don’t allow you to buy. Wake up brah, you’re seriously outgunned already.

Better to die on my feet than live on my knees.

Isn’t it cold dead hand? You better get with the program, old man.

 

[Damaged Eagle]

Are you going to place the same limits on all law enforcement agencies?

*****SMILE*****

Anyone who's into Queensryche has to be a major poofter.

You didn't answer the question...

Are you going to place those same limits on all law enforcement agencies?

*****SMILE*****

Ok Tull. That's better.

As to your question, law enforcement should never be outgunned like they are because of sales of AR15 types. They should never have to be put in that kind of harm's way, but who cares, right?

View attachment 178949

View attachment 178950

View attachment 178951

View attachment 178952

Yeah sure.... Law enforcement is outgunned.

*****SMILE*****

That’s why the guard and cops were hiding outside the school. Now you know.

So now you're saying they had the equipment to handle the situation and failed in their duty to protect and serve?

*****SMILE*****

 

[Scamp]

EDIT:

Several readers have responded remarking specifically about the AR-15 genre of rifles. I don't know if they didn't read the whole OP, but this post/thread is about semi-automatic rifles in general, and the AR-15 is but one form of them, albeit, apparently, the most popular one. I've not in the main post below singled out the AR-15 genre of semi-automatic rifles.​

Edit end.


I'm not a hunter or target shooter, though I have on occasion fired a rifle at a stationary target. That said, it seems to me that the only legitimate civilian uses of rifles are for sport -- hunting and target shooting. Perhaps, however, that's an errant predicate, but barring a handful of exceptional circumstances, it doesn't seem to me seem so; thus I'm baffled at the existential fascination gun enthusiasts have with semi-automatic rifles.

Over the past few days and in an effort to challenge my own perception that there is no sound/cogent basis for demanding a semi-automatic rifle for target shooting or game hunting, I've plumbed the Internet seeking input on whether there be any hunting or target shooting sports for which an automatic rifle is necessary or even militated for. So far, I have yet to find one.

What have I found? Well, this:

• Gun recommendations for hunters from multiple sources --> Of them only four recommended a semi-automatic rifle of any sort, and on each list that included a semi-automatic (semi), only one of the rifles recommended is a semi. Among the semis recommended only one was an AR-15-style semi. (I note this only because of what appears to be the AR-15's overwhelming popularity compared to it's incidence of being recommended. For the purpose of this thread, however, that matters not; for the purpose of this discussion, a semi is a semi.)
  • Outdoor Life -- This one recommended an AR-15-style semi.
  • Game and Fish
  • Field and Stream
    • Sub $1000 options
  • American Whitetail -- This one recommended a BAR carbine semi (circa 1967 and, presumably, later)
  • Grand View Outdoors
  • I Like Big Guns and I Cannot Lie: Best Big Bore Rifles - Pew Pew Tactical
  • You Can Hunt Any Animal in the World with Just These 4 Guns
  • The Best Big Game Rifles of All Time - Petersen's Hunting -- This reviewer recommended the Remington Model 74/7400/750.
  • The 20 Best Elk Hunting Rifles Ever Made -- This revier recommended the Browning BAR MK. II Safari Grade .338 (BAR Mark II Safari with BOSS)
• In light of the Olympics, I checked to see what sort of guns biathletes (the biathlon apparently is the #1 televised winer sport in Europe) use. They use guns that roughly look something like an AR-15, but that are yet not semis. That informed me that a rifle can look "cool" (if that be what describes how gun enthusiasts describe the visage of AR-15-style rifles) and not be a semi. It also informed me that, inasmuch as winning at the biathlon is a function of time, firing accurately matters because receives a time deduction for a missed target. That, absent the competitive elements and factors, strikes me as about what matters for hunting game. This part of my inquiry also made me think that it may be that a bolt action rifle, rather than a semi, is used in biathlon because in part perhaps they're more accurate (? -- I don't know...it seems as though there really shouldn't be any difference in that regard, but maybe there is....).
  • 
    
    
    
• Given the above described question about accuracy, I sought an answer to it. Turns out that there is an ongoing debate about exactly that. As the Moirae would have it, there is a multiplicity of factors that affect accuracy. From my high level reading about it, seems to me that which is more accurate depends heavily on situational factors and factors intrinsic to the rifle itself, but in the main a bolt action rifle is considered more accurate.
  • 6 Reasons Why AR Guys Need a Bolt-Action - Shooting Times
    
  • Long Range Shooting with a Semi Auto - AccuracyTech -- This writer's analysis focues on a genre of rifles referred to as "AR10s."
    
  • Best Sniper & Precision Rifle for Beginners [2018] - Pew Pew Tactical
    
  • How to Hit a 1,000-Yard Target with a $500 Rifle
    
  • 12 Next-Gen Precision Rifles For Long-Range Shooting -- Finally, I came by this editorial. It lists multiple sems and multiple bolt action rifles.
    
  • Best .308 Rifle Reviews - Best Target Rifle Guide - Reviewster -- This revier lists quite a few rifles and expounds on three, two of which are semis.

So what did the inquiry above lead me to think? [1] Well, pretty much what I thought before I undertook it: what the hell is the fascination with semis? It seems very clear to me that for hunting and target shooting a semi isn't at all necessary, though it's also clear that semis facilitate follow-up shots if such is needed. All the same, assuming one is is a fair marksman and has in one's sights a single target, a "manual" rifle of some sort will get the job done very effectively for any medium to large game.

Why was I interested in trying to make some sense of just what gives rise to the fascination with semis? Quite simply, it's because in my recollection, all the unlawful rifle users of recent times have used a semi. [2][3] That suggests to me that if there is to be ban, it needs to be a ban of semis, not so-called assault rifles. It also seems to me that if the tactical styling of "next gen" rifles is what drives sales to some consumers, fine. I'm sure that look can be implemented without semi-automatic functionality.

At the end of the day several things strike me as legitimate concerns:

• People do have a right to own guns.
• While the gun doesn't leap off a shelf or rack and go out shooting people, it's clear that people who use rifles to shoot others -- be they shooting single targets as the D.C. Sniper did or shooting indiscriminately at people -- preponderantly choose to do so using semis.
• For most of those rifle gunmen, it's very clear that the rate of fire has had a material impact on the quantity of people whom the shooters killed and/or injured.
• Hunting is a legitimate sporting pursuit and nobody should be denied the ability to enjoy it.
• Target shooting is a legitimate sporting pursuit and nobody should be denied the ability to enjoy it.
• Given the body of available germane information about all sorts of things -- soundly performed psychological research findings, soundly performed sociological research findings, extant limitations on future findings in either discipline, consumer behavior, guns themselves and their various capabilities, fitness for a purpose, extant laws, the nature and extent of law enforcement, the nature and extent of policy solution actions that can be taken, etc. -- it seems to me that rifle enthusiasts are going to have to make or face some sort of concessions on the nature of rifle availability. Access to semis may be among them, too it may not.
• Given the body of available germane information about all sorts of things -- [same list as above] -- it seems to me that gun control advocates are going to have to make or face some sort of concessions on the nature of rifle restrictions. Simply banning all rifles is not an option.
  
• Mass shooters don't much seem to use handguns. (This discussion does not include handguns and it does not construe "semis" as handguns.)

In light of those concerns, it seems to me that declaring semis to have the same status as fully automatic rifles may be one of the viable means and modes of established a basis by which we can reduce deaths an injuries caused by unlawful users of rifles.


Note to Members who are in the "no, no, no" camp as go access and/or gun reporting:

You need not post in this thread because I am well aware of your stance and I know you exist. We all are and do. This thread is not about how many responses it may generate and I'm not canvassing to see what views are most popular here.​

Note:

1. Though I did encounter some coverage given to shotguns, I didn't see much. I inferred from that that either bird hunting isn't especially popular in the U.S. or just about shotgun, roughly speaking, will do as goes bird hunting, the key being the size of the shot one uses more so than the shotgun. I don't really know or care, right now, which of those, if either, be so. It was just a ancillary thought that crossed my mind.
2. I'm thinking back as far as the D.C. sniper days. I have not checked to see if shooters prior to that used semis or didn't use them. I also have relied only on my memory as goes what weapons rifle-murderers used/fired to kill folks.
3. This is flat-out bizarre. -- Based on FBI Uniform Crime Report data, in any given year between 2006 to 2011 (inclusive), rifles and shotguns outstrip handguns in terms of having been used to commit murder; however, over the period as a whole, handguns overwhelming outstrip rifles.
   
   I'm sure there must be an explanation for that strange happenstance, but I don't at this juncture know what it is. It could be that the site that compiled and graphically reported the data goofed somewhere. A "goof" certainly seems plausible given that the FBI's data about victims of rifle and handgun shootings from 2010 to 2014 presents a very different picture.
   
   Be that as it may, it's all too damn many people being unlawfully shot and killed, regardless of the weapon, as far as I'm concerned. That said, this post/thread is about rifles.

Watch the movie Zulu...get back with us.

 

[usmbguest5318]

EDIT:

Several readers have responded remarking specifically about the AR-15 genre of rifles. I don't know if they didn't read the whole OP, but this post/thread is about semi-automatic rifles in general, and the AR-15 is but one form of them, albeit, apparently, the most popular one. I've not in the main post below singled out the AR-15 genre of semi-automatic rifles.​

Edit end.


I'm not a hunter or target shooter, though I have on occasion fired a rifle at a stationary target. That said, it seems to me that the only legitimate civilian uses of rifles are for sport -- hunting and target shooting. Perhaps, however, that's an errant predicate, but barring a handful of exceptional circumstances, it doesn't seem to me seem so; thus I'm baffled at the existential fascination gun enthusiasts have with semi-automatic rifles.

Over the past few days and in an effort to challenge my own perception that there is no sound/cogent basis for demanding a semi-automatic rifle for target shooting or game hunting, I've plumbed the Internet seeking input on whether there be any hunting or target shooting sports for which an automatic rifle is necessary or even militated for. So far, I have yet to find one.

What have I found? Well, this:

• Gun recommendations for hunters from multiple sources --> Of them only four recommended a semi-automatic rifle of any sort, and on each list that included a semi-automatic (semi), only one of the rifles recommended is a semi. Among the semis recommended only one was an AR-15-style semi. (I note this only because of what appears to be the AR-15's overwhelming popularity compared to it's incidence of being recommended. For the purpose of this thread, however, that matters not; for the purpose of this discussion, a semi is a semi.)
  • Outdoor Life -- This one recommended an AR-15-style semi.
  • Game and Fish
  • Field and Stream
    • Sub $1000 options
  • American Whitetail -- This one recommended a BAR carbine semi (circa 1967 and, presumably, later)
  • Grand View Outdoors
  • I Like Big Guns and I Cannot Lie: Best Big Bore Rifles - Pew Pew Tactical
  • You Can Hunt Any Animal in the World with Just These 4 Guns
  • The Best Big Game Rifles of All Time - Petersen's Hunting -- This reviewer recommended the Remington Model 74/7400/750.
  • The 20 Best Elk Hunting Rifles Ever Made -- This revier recommended the Browning BAR MK. II Safari Grade .338 (BAR Mark II Safari with BOSS)
• In light of the Olympics, I checked to see what sort of guns biathletes (the biathlon apparently is the #1 televised winer sport in Europe) use. They use guns that roughly look something like an AR-15, but that are yet not semis. That informed me that a rifle can look "cool" (if that be what describes how gun enthusiasts describe the visage of AR-15-style rifles) and not be a semi. It also informed me that, inasmuch as winning at the biathlon is a function of time, firing accurately matters because receives a time deduction for a missed target. That, absent the competitive elements and factors, strikes me as about what matters for hunting game. This part of my inquiry also made me think that it may be that a bolt action rifle, rather than a semi, is used in biathlon because in part perhaps they're more accurate (? -- I don't know...it seems as though there really shouldn't be any difference in that regard, but maybe there is....).
  • 
    
    
    
• Given the above described question about accuracy, I sought an answer to it. Turns out that there is an ongoing debate about exactly that. As the Moirae would have it, there is a multiplicity of factors that affect accuracy. From my high level reading about it, seems to me that which is more accurate depends heavily on situational factors and factors intrinsic to the rifle itself, but in the main a bolt action rifle is considered more accurate.
  • 6 Reasons Why AR Guys Need a Bolt-Action - Shooting Times
    
  • Long Range Shooting with a Semi Auto - AccuracyTech -- This writer's analysis focues on a genre of rifles referred to as "AR10s."
    
  • Best Sniper & Precision Rifle for Beginners [2018] - Pew Pew Tactical
    
  • How to Hit a 1,000-Yard Target with a $500 Rifle
    
  • 12 Next-Gen Precision Rifles For Long-Range Shooting -- Finally, I came by this editorial. It lists multiple sems and multiple bolt action rifles.
    
  • Best .308 Rifle Reviews - Best Target Rifle Guide - Reviewster -- This revier lists quite a few rifles and expounds on three, two of which are semis.

So what did the inquiry above lead me to think? [1] Well, pretty much what I thought before I undertook it: what the hell is the fascination with semis? It seems very clear to me that for hunting and target shooting a semi isn't at all necessary, though it's also clear that semis facilitate follow-up shots if such is needed. All the same, assuming one is is a fair marksman and has in one's sights a single target, a "manual" rifle of some sort will get the job done very effectively for any medium to large game.

Why was I interested in trying to make some sense of just what gives rise to the fascination with semis? Quite simply, it's because in my recollection, all the unlawful rifle users of recent times have used a semi. [2][3] That suggests to me that if there is to be ban, it needs to be a ban of semis, not so-called assault rifles. It also seems to me that if the tactical styling of "next gen" rifles is what drives sales to some consumers, fine. I'm sure that look can be implemented without semi-automatic functionality.

At the end of the day several things strike me as legitimate concerns:

• People do have a right to own guns.
• While the gun doesn't leap off a shelf or rack and go out shooting people, it's clear that people who use rifles to shoot others -- be they shooting single targets as the D.C. Sniper did or shooting indiscriminately at people -- preponderantly choose to do so using semis.
• For most of those rifle gunmen, it's very clear that the rate of fire has had a material impact on the quantity of people whom the shooters killed and/or injured.
• Hunting is a legitimate sporting pursuit and nobody should be denied the ability to enjoy it.
• Target shooting is a legitimate sporting pursuit and nobody should be denied the ability to enjoy it.
• Given the body of available germane information about all sorts of things -- soundly performed psychological research findings, soundly performed sociological research findings, extant limitations on future findings in either discipline, consumer behavior, guns themselves and their various capabilities, fitness for a purpose, extant laws, the nature and extent of law enforcement, the nature and extent of policy solution actions that can be taken, etc. -- it seems to me that rifle enthusiasts are going to have to make or face some sort of concessions on the nature of rifle availability. Access to semis may be among them, too it may not.
• Given the body of available germane information about all sorts of things -- [same list as above] -- it seems to me that gun control advocates are going to have to make or face some sort of concessions on the nature of rifle restrictions. Simply banning all rifles is not an option.
  
• Mass shooters don't much seem to use handguns. (This discussion does not include handguns and it does not construe "semis" as handguns.)

In light of those concerns, it seems to me that declaring semis to have the same status as fully automatic rifles may be one of the viable means and modes of established a basis by which we can reduce deaths an injuries caused by unlawful users of rifles.


Note to Members who are in the "no, no, no" camp as go access and/or gun reporting:

You need not post in this thread because I am well aware of your stance and I know you exist. We all are and do. This thread is not about how many responses it may generate and I'm not canvassing to see what views are most popular here.​

Note:

1. Though I did encounter some coverage given to shotguns, I didn't see much. I inferred from that that either bird hunting isn't especially popular in the U.S. or just about shotgun, roughly speaking, will do as goes bird hunting, the key being the size of the shot one uses more so than the shotgun. I don't really know or care, right now, which of those, if either, be so. It was just a ancillary thought that crossed my mind.
2. I'm thinking back as far as the D.C. sniper days. I have not checked to see if shooters prior to that used semis or didn't use them. I also have relied only on my memory as goes what weapons rifle-murderers used/fired to kill folks.
3. This is flat-out bizarre. -- Based on FBI Uniform Crime Report data, in any given year between 2006 to 2011 (inclusive), rifles and shotguns outstrip handguns in terms of having been used to commit murder; however, over the period as a whole, handguns overwhelming outstrip rifles.
   
   I'm sure there must be an explanation for that strange happenstance, but I don't at this juncture know what it is. It could be that the site that compiled and graphically reported the data goofed somewhere. A "goof" certainly seems plausible given that the FBI's data about victims of rifle and handgun shootings from 2010 to 2014 presents a very different picture.
   
   Be that as it may, it's all too damn many people being unlawfully shot and killed, regardless of the weapon, as far as I'm concerned. That said, this post/thread is about rifles.

Watch the movie Zulu...get back with us.

See post 56: CDZ - I do not understand the fascination with and demand for semi-automatic rifles.

 

[Anathema]

Isn’t it cold dead hand? You better get with the program, old man.

There are any number of cliches that can be used. Pick your preferred ne.

 

[usmbguest5318]

Isn’t it cold dead hand? You better get with the program, old man.

There are any number of cliches that can be used. Pick your preferred ne.

See post 56: CDZ - I do not understand the fascination with and demand for semi-automatic rifles.

 

[9thIDdoc]

I'm not a hunter or target shooter, though I have on occasion fired a rifle at a stationary target. That said, it seems to me that the only legitimate civilian uses of rifles are for sport -- hunting and target shooting. Perhaps, however, that's an errant predicate, but barring a handful of exceptional circumstances, it doesn't seem to me seem so; thus I'm baffled at the existential fascination gun enthusiasts have with semi-automatic rifles.

Over the past few days and in an effort to challenge my own perception that there is no sound/cogent basis for demanding a semi-automatic rifle for target shooting or game hunting, I've plumbed the Internet seeking input on whether there be any hunting or target shooting sports for which an automatic rifle is necessary or even militated for. So far, I have yet to find one.

What have I found? Well, this:

• Gun recommendations for hunters from multiple sources --> Of them only four recommended a semi-automatic rifle of any sort, and on each list that included a semi-automatic (semi), only one of the rifles recommended is a semi. Among the semis recommended only one was an AR-15-style semi. (I note this only because of what appears to be the AR-15's overwhelming popularity compared to it's incidence of being recommended. For the purpose of this thread, however, that matters not; for the purpose of this discussion, a semi is a semi.)
  • Outdoor Life -- This one recommended an AR-15-style semi.
  • Game and Fish
  • Field and Stream
    • Sub $1000 options
  • American Whitetail -- This one recommended a BAR carbine semi (circa 1967 and, presumably, later)
  • Grand View Outdoors
  • I Like Big Guns and I Cannot Lie: Best Big Bore Rifles - Pew Pew Tactical
  • You Can Hunt Any Animal in the World with Just These 4 Guns
  • The Best Big Game Rifles of All Time - Petersen's Hunting -- This reviewer recommended the Remington Model 74/7400/750.
  • The 20 Best Elk Hunting Rifles Ever Made -- This revier recommended the Browning BAR MK. II Safari Grade .338 (BAR Mark II Safari with BOSS)
• In light of the Olympics, I checked to see what sort of guns biathletes (the biathlon apparently is the #1 televised winer sport in Europe) use. They use guns that roughly look something like an AR-15, but that are yet not semis. That informed me that a rifle can look "cool" (if that be what describes how gun enthusiasts describe the visage of AR-15-style rifles) and not be a semi. It also informed me that, inasmuch as winning at the biathlon is a function of time, firing accurately matters because receives a time deduction for a missed target. That, absent the competitive elements and factors, strikes me as about what matters for hunting game. This part of my inquiry also made me think that it may be that a bolt action rifle, rather than a semi, is used in biathlon because in part perhaps they're more accurate (? -- I don't know...it seems as though there really shouldn't be any difference in that regard, but maybe there is....).
  • 
    
    
    
• Given the above described question about accuracy, I sought an answer to it. Turns out that there is an ongoing debate about exactly that. As the Moirae would have it, there is a multiplicity of factors that affect accuracy. From my high level reading about it, seems to me that which is more accurate depends heavily on situational factors and factors intrinsic to the rifle itself, but in the main a bolt action rifle is considered more accurate.
  • 6 Reasons Why AR Guys Need a Bolt-Action - Shooting Times
    
  • Long Range Shooting with a Semi Auto - AccuracyTech -- This writer's analysis focues on a genre of rifles referred to as "AR10s."
    
  • Best Sniper & Precision Rifle for Beginners [2018] - Pew Pew Tactical
    
  • How to Hit a 1,000-Yard Target with a $500 Rifle
    
  • 12 Next-Gen Precision Rifles For Long-Range Shooting -- Finally, I came by this editorial. It lists multiple sems and multiple bolt action rifles.
    
  • Best .308 Rifle Reviews - Best Target Rifle Guide - Reviewster -- This revier lists quite a few rifles and expounds on three, two of which are semis.

So what did the inquiry above lead me to think? [1] Well, pretty much what I thought before I undertook it: what the hell is the fascination with semis? It seems very clear to me that for hunting and target shooting a semi isn't at all necessary, though it's also clear that semis facilitate follow-up shots if such is needed. All the same, assuming one is is a fair marksman and has in one's sights a single target, a "manual" rifle of some sort will get the job done very effectively for any medium to large game.

Why was I interested in trying to make some sense of just what gives rise to the fascination with semis? Quite simply, it's because in my recollection, all the unlawful rifle users of recent times have used a semi. [2][3] That suggests to me that if there is to be ban, it needs to be a ban of semis, not so-called assault rifles. It also seems to me that if the tactical styling of "next gen" rifles is what drives sales to some consumers, fine. I'm sure that look can be implemented without semi-automatic functionality.

At the end of the day several things strike me as legitimate concerns:

• People do have a right to own guns.
• While the gun doesn't leap off a shelf or rack and go out shooting people, it's clear that people who use rifles to shoot others -- be they shooting single targets as the D.C. Sniper did or shooting indiscriminately at people -- preponderantly choose to do so using semis.
• For most of those rifle gunmen, it's very clear that the rate of fire has had a material impact on the quantity of people whom the shooters killed and/or injured.
• Hunting is a legitimate sporting pursuit and nobody should be denied the ability to enjoy it.
• Target shooting is a legitimate sporting pursuit and nobody should be denied the ability to enjoy it.
• Given the body of available germane information about all sorts of things -- soundly performed psychological research findings, soundly performed sociological research findings, extant limitations on future findings in either discipline, consumer behavior, guns themselves and their various capabilities, fitness for a purpose, extant laws, the nature and extent of law enforcement, the nature and extent of policy solution actions that can be taken, etc. -- it seems to me that rifle enthusiasts are going to have to make or face some sort of concessions on the nature of rifle availability. Access to semis may be among them, too it may not.
• Given the body of available germane information about all sorts of things -- [same list as above] -- it seems to me that gun control advocates are going to have to make or face some sort of concessions on the nature of rifle restrictions. Simply banning all rifles is not an option.
  
• Mass shooters don't much seem to use handguns. (This discussion does not include handguns and it does not construe "semis" as handguns.)

In light of those concerns, it seems to me that declaring semis to have the same status as fully automatic rifles may be one of the viable means and modes of established a basis by which we can reduce deaths an injuries caused by unlawful users of rifles.


Note to Members who are in the "no, no, no" camp as go access and/or gun reporting:

You need not post in this thread because I am well aware of your stance and I know you exist. We all are and do. This thread is not about how many responses it may generate and I'm not canvassing to see what views are most popular here.​

Note:

1. Though I did encounter some coverage given to shotguns, I didn't see much. I inferred from that that either bird hunting isn't especially popular in the U.S. or just about shotgun, roughly speaking, will do as goes bird hunting, the key being the size of the shot one uses more so than the shotgun. I don't really know or care, right now, which of those, if either, be so. It was just a ancillary thought that crossed my mind.
2. I'm thinking back as far as the D.C. sniper days. I have not checked to see if shooters prior to that used semis or didn't use them. I also have relied only on my memory as goes what weapons rifle-murderers used/fired to kill folks.
3. This is flat-out bizarre. -- Based on FBI Uniform Crime Report data, in any given year between 2006 to 2011 (inclusive), rifles and shotguns outstrip handguns in terms of having been used to commit murder; however, over the period as a whole, handguns overwhelming outstrip rifles.
   
   I'm sure there must be an explanation for that strange happenstance, but I don't at this juncture know what it is. It could be that the site that compiled and graphically reported the data goofed somewhere. A "goof" certainly seems plausible given that the FBI's data about victims of rifle and handgun shootings from 2010 to 2014 presents a very different picture.
   
   Be that as it may, it's all too damn many people being unlawfully shot and killed, regardless of the weapon, as far as I'm concerned. That said, this post/thread is about rifles.

"Semiautomatic" is a term used to describe a firing mechanism in which a single round is fired for each pull of the trigger and may describe rifles pistols or shotguns. They are popular with the military police hunters and competition shooters and have been for quite a long time. They are especially popular in handguns used by military police and defensive civilian carry weapons. They are popular shotguns for hunting rabbits waterfowl and upland birds and in rifles for hunting varmints squirrels hogs and deer.
The Constitution is the highest law of the land and any law banning semiautomatic weapons would violate the 2nd Amendment by infringing on the rights of American citizens and constitute tyranny which could easily result in widespread bloodshed.

may describe rifles pistols or shotguns

Be that as it may, the device scope of this thread is rifles, specifically "manual" and semi-automatic rifles. I was very clear about that in the thread title and OP.

I do not understand the fascination with and demand for semi-automatic rifles

Of them only four recommended a semi-automatic rifle of any sort

rifle restrictions

Simply banning all rifles is not an option

This discussion does not include handguns and it does not construe "semis" as handguns

They are popular with the military police hunters

What, exactly, is a "military police hunter?"

• Someone who hunts military police?
• Military police who are also hunters?
• Members of the military who also hunt police?
• Something other than one of those?

They are popular with ... competition shooters and have been for quite a long time.

Off-topic, sort of; and on-topic sort of:

Well, I'm willing to entertain that being so, but as you can see from the content of two of my main OP's bullet points, such weapons seem not to be used by Olympic biathletes nor do they feature prominently among the recommendations of several folks who presumably are target shooting experts. So while I'm open to accepting your assertion of semis being popular among target shooters, just as I didn't make and ask folks to accept weakly (not a lot of examples) supported or unsubstantiated assertions about existential normative or positive preferences among "gun intelligencia" for or against semis, I expect a comparable measure of consideration in return.

If you want to express why you personally feel a semi is necessary, fine, your say-so is sufficient for that. When you start generalizing about what is or isn't "popular with competition shooters," your say-so needs support. It does because, while it's nice to learn what any given individual thinks, what I'm seeking is input about the fascination with semis that is credible and that pertains to the gun enthusiast community in general, or to a subset of it such as competition shooters, though again in general.

Surely you understand why that is, right? I can't do much with assertions whereby if I'm of a mind to incorporate them into my own analysis, the only basis I have for their credibility is "this person about whom I can verify noting said 'such and such' about nature and/or extent of semis' popularity among competition shooters, and I've thus taken that person's remarks as so." You do see the glaring lack of of rigor there, don't you?

That, of course works both ways. I'm fairly knowledgeable in a handful of disciplines/communities. I can assert that here, but I know readers here cannot verify that about me. Accordingly, I don't ask folks to take my word for things. Instead, I provide highly credible references that corroborate my assertions about the general nature of "whatever." Of course, I share anecdotes and whatnot, but rarely do they form the basis upon which I found my conclusions/assertions, and when they do, I'm very clear about stating that my anecdotal experience and observations, not something far more credible and rigorous, form the basis of my assertions.

I realize that to some, my bar for discourse about public policy matters is one over which they don't care to jump. That's fine; I have no problem with that. I ask only that if one isn't of a mind to match the rigor I offer in my discourse, don't engage in the discourse, be a reader rather than a writer. Alternatively, if one wants to be a written participant, simply be sure not to make remarks that outstrip the range of validity of one's remarks reflect.​

"...such weapons seem not to be used by Olympic biathletes nor do they feature prominently among the recommendations of several folks who presumably are target shooting experts."

Your Comprehensive Guide To The 15 Olympic Shooting Events
There are several Olympic shooting events
Competition Shooting Guide: Competition Overview - Pew Pew Tactical

What you get on a site such as this is opinion unless someone posts links to references that you could have found for yourself if you bothered to do your own research. I thought everyone knew there were several Olympic shooting sports. I thought everyone knew there were many shooting competitions aside from Olympic shoots. Silly me.

Be that as it may, the device scope of this thread is rifles, specifically "manual" and semi-automatic rifles. I was very clear about that in the thread title and OP.

And then you promptly starting using "semi" which is a contraction meaning something else. Can't have it both ways.
semiautomatic

[sem-ee-aw-tuh-mat-ik, sem-ahy-]

• Examples
• Word Origin

adjective
1.
partly automatic.
2.
(of a firearm) automatically ejecting the cartridge case of a fired shotand loading the next cartridge from the magazine but requiring asqueeze of the trigger to fire each individual shot.
noun
3.
a self-loading rifle or other firearm.

Sound like splitting hairs? Not at all when it comes to legal definitions exact definitions are very very important.

"So while I'm open to accepting your assertion of semis being popular among target shooters, just as I didn't make and ask folks to accept weakly (not a lot of examples) supported or unsubstantiated assertions about existential normative or positive preferences among "gun intelligencia" for or against semis,.."

No. I disagree. I don't think you have given any substantial support for the conclusions you have drawn. A person who writes a magazine article that is an expression of his opinion is still just an individual expressing an opinion.

I am about to be 70 y/o. I have hunted since the age of 12 And taken game with pretty much all types of weapons including bow and arrow,spear, flintlock and percussion muzzleloaders, single-shot, bolt action, pump, multi-barrel, and semiautomatic rifles, shotguns, and handguns. In the Army I qualified as expert with the M-16 rifle and also with the 1911A1 .45ACP pistol and as sharpshooter with the M-14 rifle. In Vietnam I carried the M-16A1 and .45 pistol into combat and survived. Later on I acted as training Sgt., range safety NCO, company armorer, and capt. of the rifle/pistol team Later as a civilian at various times I engaged in (low level) competition with archery equipment, muzzle loaders, smallbore and military rifle, and handguns..I have to think that I have a fairly well informed opinion concerning most subjects related to firearms and their use.

 

[2aguy]

we still have a FREE Country , And maybe as a foreigner to America you don't understand the purpose of the SECOND Amendment XELOR ,

So if I have a 2nd Amendment right, then where can I buy a cruise missile, some grenades, maybe some anti-aircraft missiles... You know, all the stuff we're not allowed to buy.

The "Bear" arms means to carry them on your person or in your clothes.......grenades are unusual and dangerous and are not protected .......Semi auto rifles are...

 

[2aguy]

Semi auto rifles are the best defense against particular threats....including criminals and murderous governments......

Just as you don't limit the Fire Department to a particular amount of water to put out a house that is on fire, you don't limit the self defense options of a family....

Semi Auto weapons are great for self defense....and don't be mistaken.....they are the gateway gun for gun banning....if you ban the semi auto rifle......you can't make an argument against banning semi auto pistols....

Vegas....58 murdered with 2 rifles....

Virginia Tech....32 murdered with 2 pistols.

Luby's cafe.....24 murdered with 2 pistols.

And as to self defense......the only way to prevent mass murder by government is to make sure civilians have the same weapons as their military and police......

this is a lesson Europe forgot....but Switzerland understood....

THE SWISS WERE PREPARED TO FIGHT FACISM TO THE BITTER END | FRONTLINE | PBS



That is why the Nazis despised Switzerland. Joseph Goebbels called Switzerland "this stinking little state" where "sentiment has turned very much against us." Adolf Hitler decided that "all the rubbish of small nations still existing in Europe must be liquidated," even if it meant he would later "be attacked as the 'Butcher of the Swiss.'"



The 1940 Nazi invasion plan, Operation Tannenbaum, was not executed, and SS Oberst Hermann Bohme's 1943 memorandum warned that an invasion of Switzerland would be too costly because every man was armed and trained to shoot. This did not stop the Gestapo from preparing lists of Swiss to be liquidated once the Nazis overran the country.



The other European nations were easily toppled and had little means to wage a partisan war against the occupation. Once their standing armies were defeated, the governments capitulated and the populaces were defenseless.



Only in Switzerland was the entire populace armed and prepared to wage a relentless guerrilla war against an invader. When the war began in 1939, Switzerland mobilized 435,000 citizen soldiers out of a population of 4.2 million.

Production figures for Swiss service rifles, which had firepower equal to those of the Germans, demonstrate an ample supply of small arms.


Swiss militiamen were instructed to disregard any alleged "official" surrender as enemy propaganda and, if necessary, to fight individually. This meant that a nation of sharpshooters would be sniping at German soldiers at long ranges from every mountain.



While neutral, Switzerland was prepared to fight a Nazi invasion to the end. The celebrated Swiss Gen. Henri Guisan developed the strategy known as defense du reduit--an initial opposition followed by a retreat into the Alps, where a relentless war to the death would be waged. Most Swiss strongly opposed Nazism. Death sentences were issued for fifth-column activities, and proclamations against anti-Semitism were passed at various official levels. There was no Holocaust on Swiss soil, something that can not be said for France, the Netherlands, Poland or most of Europe.

 

[2aguy]

EDIT:

Several readers have responded remarking specifically about the AR-15 genre of rifles. I don't know if they didn't read the whole OP, but this post/thread is about semi-automatic rifles in general, and the AR-15 is but one form of them, albeit, apparently, the most popular one. I've not in the main post below singled out the AR-15 genre of semi-automatic rifles.​

Edit end.


I'm not a hunter or target shooter, though I have on occasion fired a rifle at a stationary target. That said, it seems to me that the only legitimate civilian uses of rifles are for sport -- hunting and target shooting. Perhaps, however, that's an errant predicate, but barring a handful of exceptional circumstances, it doesn't seem to me seem so; thus I'm baffled at the existential fascination gun enthusiasts have with semi-automatic rifles.

Over the past few days and in an effort to challenge my own perception that there is no sound/cogent basis for demanding a semi-automatic rifle for target shooting or game hunting, I've plumbed the Internet seeking input on whether there be any hunting or target shooting sports for which an automatic rifle is necessary or even militated for. So far, I have yet to find one.

What have I found? Well, this:

• Gun recommendations for hunters from multiple sources --> Of them only four recommended a semi-automatic rifle of any sort, and on each list that included a semi-automatic (semi), only one of the rifles recommended is a semi. Among the semis recommended only one was an AR-15-style semi. (I note this only because of what appears to be the AR-15's overwhelming popularity compared to it's incidence of being recommended. For the purpose of this thread, however, that matters not; for the purpose of this discussion, a semi is a semi.)
  • Outdoor Life -- This one recommended an AR-15-style semi.
  • Game and Fish
  • Field and Stream
    • Sub $1000 options
  • American Whitetail -- This one recommended a BAR carbine semi (circa 1967 and, presumably, later)
  • Grand View Outdoors
  • I Like Big Guns and I Cannot Lie: Best Big Bore Rifles - Pew Pew Tactical
  • You Can Hunt Any Animal in the World with Just These 4 Guns
  • The Best Big Game Rifles of All Time - Petersen's Hunting -- This reviewer recommended the Remington Model 74/7400/750.
  • The 20 Best Elk Hunting Rifles Ever Made -- This revier recommended the Browning BAR MK. II Safari Grade .338 (BAR Mark II Safari with BOSS)
• In light of the Olympics, I checked to see what sort of guns biathletes (the biathlon apparently is the #1 televised winer sport in Europe) use. They use guns that roughly look something like an AR-15, but that are yet not semis. That informed me that a rifle can look "cool" (if that be what describes how gun enthusiasts describe the visage of AR-15-style rifles) and not be a semi. It also informed me that, inasmuch as winning at the biathlon is a function of time, firing accurately matters because receives a time deduction for a missed target. That, absent the competitive elements and factors, strikes me as about what matters for hunting game. This part of my inquiry also made me think that it may be that a bolt action rifle, rather than a semi, is used in biathlon because in part perhaps they're more accurate (? -- I don't know...it seems as though there really shouldn't be any difference in that regard, but maybe there is....).
  • 
    
    
    
• Given the above described question about accuracy, I sought an answer to it. Turns out that there is an ongoing debate about exactly that. As the Moirae would have it, there is a multiplicity of factors that affect accuracy. From my high level reading about it, seems to me that which is more accurate depends heavily on situational factors and factors intrinsic to the rifle itself, but in the main a bolt action rifle is considered more accurate.
  • 6 Reasons Why AR Guys Need a Bolt-Action - Shooting Times
    
  • Long Range Shooting with a Semi Auto - AccuracyTech -- This writer's analysis focues on a genre of rifles referred to as "AR10s."
    
  • Best Sniper & Precision Rifle for Beginners [2018] - Pew Pew Tactical
    
  • How to Hit a 1,000-Yard Target with a $500 Rifle
    
  • 12 Next-Gen Precision Rifles For Long-Range Shooting -- Finally, I came by this editorial. It lists multiple sems and multiple bolt action rifles.
    
  • Best .308 Rifle Reviews - Best Target Rifle Guide - Reviewster -- This revier lists quite a few rifles and expounds on three, two of which are semis.

So what did the inquiry above lead me to think? [1] Well, pretty much what I thought before I undertook it: what the hell is the fascination with semis? It seems very clear to me that for hunting and target shooting a semi isn't at all necessary, though it's also clear that semis facilitate follow-up shots if such is needed. All the same, assuming one is is a fair marksman and has in one's sights a single target, a "manual" rifle of some sort will get the job done very effectively for any medium to large game.

Why was I interested in trying to make some sense of just what gives rise to the fascination with semis? Quite simply, it's because in my recollection, all the unlawful rifle users of recent times have used a semi. [2][3] That suggests to me that if there is to be ban, it needs to be a ban of semis, not so-called assault rifles. It also seems to me that if the tactical styling of "next gen" rifles is what drives sales to some consumers, fine. I'm sure that look can be implemented without semi-automatic functionality.

At the end of the day several things strike me as legitimate concerns:

• People do have a right to own guns.
• While the gun doesn't leap off a shelf or rack and go out shooting people, it's clear that people who use rifles to shoot others -- be they shooting single targets as the D.C. Sniper did or shooting indiscriminately at people -- preponderantly choose to do so using semis.
• For most of those rifle gunmen, it's very clear that the rate of fire has had a material impact on the quantity of people whom the shooters killed and/or injured.
• Hunting is a legitimate sporting pursuit and nobody should be denied the ability to enjoy it.
• Target shooting is a legitimate sporting pursuit and nobody should be denied the ability to enjoy it.
• Given the body of available germane information about all sorts of things -- soundly performed psychological research findings, soundly performed sociological research findings, extant limitations on future findings in either discipline, consumer behavior, guns themselves and their various capabilities, fitness for a purpose, extant laws, the nature and extent of law enforcement, the nature and extent of policy solution actions that can be taken, etc. -- it seems to me that rifle enthusiasts are going to have to make or face some sort of concessions on the nature of rifle availability. Access to semis may be among them, too it may not.
• Given the body of available germane information about all sorts of things -- [same list as above] -- it seems to me that gun control advocates are going to have to make or face some sort of concessions on the nature of rifle restrictions. Simply banning all rifles is not an option.
  
• Mass shooters don't much seem to use handguns. (This discussion does not include handguns and it does not construe "semis" as handguns.)

In light of those concerns, it seems to me that declaring semis to have the same status as fully automatic rifles may be one of the viable means and modes of established a basis by which we can reduce deaths an injuries caused by unlawful users of rifles.


Note to Members who are in the "no, no, no" camp as go access and/or gun reporting:

You need not post in this thread because I am well aware of your stance and I know you exist. We all are and do. This thread is not about how many responses it may generate and I'm not canvassing to see what views are most popular here.​

Note:

1. Though I did encounter some coverage given to shotguns, I didn't see much. I inferred from that that either bird hunting isn't especially popular in the U.S. or just about shotgun, roughly speaking, will do as goes bird hunting, the key being the size of the shot one uses more so than the shotgun. I don't really know or care, right now, which of those, if either, be so. It was just a ancillary thought that crossed my mind.
2. I'm thinking back as far as the D.C. sniper days. I have not checked to see if shooters prior to that used semis or didn't use them. I also have relied only on my memory as goes what weapons rifle-murderers used/fired to kill folks.
3. This is flat-out bizarre. -- Based on FBI Uniform Crime Report data, in any given year between 2006 to 2011 (inclusive), rifles and shotguns outstrip handguns in terms of having been used to commit murder; however, over the period as a whole, handguns overwhelming outstrip rifles.
   
   I'm sure there must be an explanation for that strange happenstance, but I don't at this juncture know what it is. It could be that the site that compiled and graphically reported the data goofed somewhere. A "goof" certainly seems plausible given that the FBI's data about victims of rifle and handgun shootings from 2010 to 2014 presents a very different picture.
   
   Be that as it may, it's all too damn many people being unlawfully shot and killed, regardless of the weapon, as far as I'm concerned. That said, this post/thread is about rifles.

Here is an article that explains why they are good for self defense...

This is why semi autos are the most common and most popular rifle in the United States.....

The AR for Home Defense: One Expert's Opinion

One of today’s best-known and most respected trainers in the art of gun fighting, retired Sgt./Maj. Kyle E. Lamb, spent more than 21 years with the U.S. Army—more than 15 years of which were in Special Operations. Lamb is one of those who has “been there and done that”—including combat operations such as the infamous “Blackhawk Down” incident in Mogadishu, Somalia, and throughout numerous tours in Iraq and Bosnia. He currently operates Viking Tactics as a military, law enforcement and civilian trainer teaching courses in tactical entry and the use of the carbine, among others.

----

Well, I may have been hit on the head a few too many times, and I have been in very close proximity to large explosions, but I personally stand in support of the AR-15 chambered in 5.56x45 mm NATO/.223 Rem.


---KL: The AR is very easy to shoot. Head out to the range and test my theory. Ask anyone who wants to join in on the fun to try shooting a scored event, under pressure, with a pistol at home-defense ranges. After you see their performance, try the same with an AR, I will bet money you see much better control of the system. Men and women alike just shoot better with a carbine than with a pistol. As long as the carbine is light enough for the shooter to handle properly, the learning curve will be straight-up.

The AR is unbelievably versatile, from contact shooting distances out to 300 yds., the carbine will outperform the pistol. Most of us don’t think of 300-yd. shooting as a likely home-defense scenario, and, in many areas, it wouldn’t be. But if given an option of defensive tools, and considering our country’s independent heritage and past experiences, why wouldn’t you want extended-range capabilities?

AR: What about other choices, such as the shotgun, for home defense?

KL: For self-defense, a reliable semi-automatic is king. That is why I would not pick the shotgun. Rarely can you find a semi-automatic shotgun that is 100-percent reliable with assorted ammunition. Add the fact that you may need to shoot without your shoulder to the buttstock and reliability with the scattergun drops even more. Recoil-operated semi-automatic shotguns are light and handy but unreliable when not held tightly, and gas-operated guns are heavier than I prefer for a home-defense scenario. Once again, if you want to carry a shotgun for home defense, knock yourself out. I choose not to do so. I am sure those who carry pump shotguns will chime in with the absolute final word on the proper pick for the home-defense shotgun—all I ask is that you head to the range and try to operate your pump gun with only one hand. Simulating a disabled arm will make you a believer in the semi-automatic carbine. The shotgun is also extremely deficient in magazine capacity. Once again, the AR shines in this category. Even in 10-round-maximum states, in which long-gun rights have been destroyed, you have more firepower than with most shotguns.

 

[Circe]

So why don't they sell nukes, mines or AA missiles down at the local gun store? I'll tell you why, they aren't allowed to. So doesn't "shall not be infringed" really matter?

No.....it is a good point. However, the whole thing has become a personal security issue now, as the government at all levels (including local, as shown by Broward County) right up to federal, have shown that they simply cannot and will not protect the citizenry. They let in illegal aliens, many being criminals and violent gang members, they freely let in terrorist Muslims, there is continual pressure to just let blacks do whatever crimes they want and not be put in those nasty prisons. The Democratic Party's whole strategy to win power is apparently based on felons: felons voting, felons in the inner cities, felons streaming in over the borders. As long as the Dems can get the felons to vote, they're in like Flynn.

So a lot of us who worry about personal and family security have given up on government monopoly on violence idea and mean to hold the line against gun-grabbing. So that's my answer to Taz: we're holding the line here.

 

[martybegan]

we still have a FREE Country , And maybe as a foreigner to America you don't understand the purpose of the SECOND Amendment XELOR ,

So if I have a 2nd Amendment right, then where can I buy a cruise missile, some grenades, maybe some anti-aircraft missiles... You know, all the stuff we're not allowed to buy.

Argumentum ad absurdum.

What you are listing is related to the artillery that would have been in use at the time the framers wrote the 2nd.

Arms are what the 2nd allows, and at that time it was a personal firearm that was considered "arms"

 

[martybegan]

we still have a FREE Country , And maybe as a foreigner to America you don't understand the purpose of the SECOND Amendment XELOR ,

So if I have a 2nd Amendment right, then where can I buy a cruise missile, some grenades, maybe some anti-aircraft missiles... You know, all the stuff we're not allowed to buy.

Pay the tax and you can have grenades.

Making something similar to a grenade takes nothing more than a trip to a firework store and a hardware store.

We made something out of M-80's that would constitute a grenade.

 

[OldLady]

EDIT:

Several readers have responded remarking specifically about the AR-15 genre of rifles. I don't know if they didn't read the whole OP, but this post/thread is about semi-automatic rifles in general, and the AR-15 is but one form of them, albeit, apparently, the most popular one. I've not in the main post below singled out the AR-15 genre of semi-automatic rifles.​

Edit end.


I'm not a hunter or target shooter, though I have on occasion fired a rifle at a stationary target. That said, it seems to me that the only legitimate civilian uses of rifles are for sport -- hunting and target shooting. Perhaps, however, that's an errant predicate, but barring a handful of exceptional circumstances, it doesn't seem to me seem so; thus I'm baffled at the existential fascination gun enthusiasts have with semi-automatic rifles.

Over the past few days and in an effort to challenge my own perception that there is no sound/cogent basis for demanding a semi-automatic rifle for target shooting or game hunting, I've plumbed the Internet seeking input on whether there be any hunting or target shooting sports for which an automatic rifle is necessary or even militated for. So far, I have yet to find one.

What have I found? Well, this:

• Gun recommendations for hunters from multiple sources --> Of them only four recommended a semi-automatic rifle of any sort, and on each list that included a semi-automatic (semi), only one of the rifles recommended is a semi. Among the semis recommended only one was an AR-15-style semi. (I note this only because of what appears to be the AR-15's overwhelming popularity compared to it's incidence of being recommended. For the purpose of this thread, however, that matters not; for the purpose of this discussion, a semi is a semi.)
  • Outdoor Life -- This one recommended an AR-15-style semi.
  • Game and Fish
  • Field and Stream
    • Sub $1000 options
  • American Whitetail -- This one recommended a BAR carbine semi (circa 1967 and, presumably, later)
  • Grand View Outdoors
  • I Like Big Guns and I Cannot Lie: Best Big Bore Rifles - Pew Pew Tactical
  • You Can Hunt Any Animal in the World with Just These 4 Guns
  • The Best Big Game Rifles of All Time - Petersen's Hunting -- This reviewer recommended the Remington Model 74/7400/750.
  • The 20 Best Elk Hunting Rifles Ever Made -- This revier recommended the Browning BAR MK. II Safari Grade .338 (BAR Mark II Safari with BOSS)
• In light of the Olympics, I checked to see what sort of guns biathletes (the biathlon apparently is the #1 televised winer sport in Europe) use. They use guns that roughly look something like an AR-15, but that are yet not semis. That informed me that a rifle can look "cool" (if that be what describes how gun enthusiasts describe the visage of AR-15-style rifles) and not be a semi. It also informed me that, inasmuch as winning at the biathlon is a function of time, firing accurately matters because receives a time deduction for a missed target. That, absent the competitive elements and factors, strikes me as about what matters for hunting game. This part of my inquiry also made me think that it may be that a bolt action rifle, rather than a semi, is used in biathlon because in part perhaps they're more accurate (? -- I don't know...it seems as though there really shouldn't be any difference in that regard, but maybe there is....).
  • 
    
    
    
• Given the above described question about accuracy, I sought an answer to it. Turns out that there is an ongoing debate about exactly that. As the Moirae would have it, there is a multiplicity of factors that affect accuracy. From my high level reading about it, seems to me that which is more accurate depends heavily on situational factors and factors intrinsic to the rifle itself, but in the main a bolt action rifle is considered more accurate.
  • 6 Reasons Why AR Guys Need a Bolt-Action - Shooting Times
    
  • Long Range Shooting with a Semi Auto - AccuracyTech -- This writer's analysis focues on a genre of rifles referred to as "AR10s."
    
  • Best Sniper & Precision Rifle for Beginners [2018] - Pew Pew Tactical
    
  • How to Hit a 1,000-Yard Target with a $500 Rifle
    
  • 12 Next-Gen Precision Rifles For Long-Range Shooting -- Finally, I came by this editorial. It lists multiple sems and multiple bolt action rifles.
    
  • Best .308 Rifle Reviews - Best Target Rifle Guide - Reviewster -- This revier lists quite a few rifles and expounds on three, two of which are semis.

So what did the inquiry above lead me to think? [1] Well, pretty much what I thought before I undertook it: what the hell is the fascination with semis? It seems very clear to me that for hunting and target shooting a semi isn't at all necessary, though it's also clear that semis facilitate follow-up shots if such is needed. All the same, assuming one is is a fair marksman and has in one's sights a single target, a "manual" rifle of some sort will get the job done very effectively for any medium to large game.

Why was I interested in trying to make some sense of just what gives rise to the fascination with semis? Quite simply, it's because in my recollection, all the unlawful rifle users of recent times have used a semi. [2][3] That suggests to me that if there is to be ban, it needs to be a ban of semis, not so-called assault rifles. It also seems to me that if the tactical styling of "next gen" rifles is what drives sales to some consumers, fine. I'm sure that look can be implemented without semi-automatic functionality.

At the end of the day several things strike me as legitimate concerns:

• People do have a right to own guns.
• While the gun doesn't leap off a shelf or rack and go out shooting people, it's clear that people who use rifles to shoot others -- be they shooting single targets as the D.C. Sniper did or shooting indiscriminately at people -- preponderantly choose to do so using semis.
• For most of those rifle gunmen, it's very clear that the rate of fire has had a material impact on the quantity of people whom the shooters killed and/or injured.
• Hunting is a legitimate sporting pursuit and nobody should be denied the ability to enjoy it.
• Target shooting is a legitimate sporting pursuit and nobody should be denied the ability to enjoy it.
• Given the body of available germane information about all sorts of things -- soundly performed psychological research findings, soundly performed sociological research findings, extant limitations on future findings in either discipline, consumer behavior, guns themselves and their various capabilities, fitness for a purpose, extant laws, the nature and extent of law enforcement, the nature and extent of policy solution actions that can be taken, etc. -- it seems to me that rifle enthusiasts are going to have to make or face some sort of concessions on the nature of rifle availability. Access to semis may be among them, too it may not.
• Given the body of available germane information about all sorts of things -- [same list as above] -- it seems to me that gun control advocates are going to have to make or face some sort of concessions on the nature of rifle restrictions. Simply banning all rifles is not an option.
  
• Mass shooters don't much seem to use handguns. (This discussion does not include handguns and it does not construe "semis" as handguns.)

In light of those concerns, it seems to me that declaring semis to have the same status as fully automatic rifles may be one of the viable means and modes of established a basis by which we can reduce deaths an injuries caused by unlawful users of rifles.


Note to Members who are in the "no, no, no" camp as go access and/or gun reporting:

You need not post in this thread because I am well aware of your stance and I know you exist. We all are and do. This thread is not about how many responses it may generate and I'm not canvassing to see what views are most popular here.​

Note:

1. Though I did encounter some coverage given to shotguns, I didn't see much. I inferred from that that either bird hunting isn't especially popular in the U.S. or just about shotgun, roughly speaking, will do as goes bird hunting, the key being the size of the shot one uses more so than the shotgun. I don't really know or care, right now, which of those, if either, be so. It was just a ancillary thought that crossed my mind.
2. I'm thinking back as far as the D.C. sniper days. I have not checked to see if shooters prior to that used semis or didn't use them. I also have relied only on my memory as goes what weapons rifle-murderers used/fired to kill folks.
3. This is flat-out bizarre. -- Based on FBI Uniform Crime Report data, in any given year between 2006 to 2011 (inclusive), rifles and shotguns outstrip handguns in terms of having been used to commit murder; however, over the period as a whole, handguns overwhelming outstrip rifles.
   
   I'm sure there must be an explanation for that strange happenstance, but I don't at this juncture know what it is. It could be that the site that compiled and graphically reported the data goofed somewhere. A "goof" certainly seems plausible given that the FBI's data about victims of rifle and handgun shootings from 2010 to 2014 presents a very different picture.
   
   Be that as it may, it's all too damn many people being unlawfully shot and killed, regardless of the weapon, as far as I'm concerned. That said, this post/thread is about rifles.

So what question are you asking, Xelor?

 

[Circe]

We have rules about guns, and can make any gun illegal if we so desire.

Well, apparently not. I'd say this month of February pretty conclusively demonstrates that.

 

[pismoe]

well , you ain't done it so far and certainly the Smart 18 year olds are on the way to to the gun store or gun show to pick up their AR or similar Circe .

 

[Wry Catcher]

we still have a FREE Country , And maybe as a foreigner to America you don't understand the purpose of the SECOND Amendment XELOR ,

So if I have a 2nd Amendment right, then where can I buy a cruise missile, some grenades, maybe some anti-aircraft missiles... You know, all the stuff we're not allowed to buy.

The "Bear" arms means to carry them on your person or in your clothes.......grenades are unusual and dangerous and are not protected .......Semi auto rifles are...

Um, with all due respect, isn't an arm an arm?