CDZ I do not understand the fascination with and demand for semi-automatic rifles

[Taz]

It's illegal to sell anti-aircraft missiles and nukes in the US, didn't you know that? Isn't my 2nd Amendment right being infringed? Or are we only trying to protect the gun manufacturers?

Show me the citation that backs up your claim. Americans sell anti aircraft missiles all the time. Just ask the Russians.

So why don't they sell nukes, mines or AA missiles down at the local gun store? I'll tell you why, they aren't allowed to. So doesn't "shall not be infringed" really matter?

Actually if the vendor has the appropriate liscences... He can. Or do you think there’s some magical workshop somewhere where elves secretly fill the governments inventory?

Actually, no vendor has a license to sell nukes, AA missiles... I dare you to find one.

Oops... found one... Got your wallet ready?

It's for my neighbor, Osama bin Falafal. Do they deliver to Beverly Hills?

 

[Taz]

So why don't they sell nukes, mines or AA missiles down at the local gun store? I'll tell you why, they aren't allowed to. So doesn't "shall not be infringed" really matter?

Actually if the vendor has the appropriate liscences... He can. Or do you think there’s some magical workshop somewhere where elves secretly fill the governments inventory?

Actually, no vendor has a license to sell nukes, AA missiles... I dare you to find one.

So... elves it is then?

... to sell to ordinary US citizens. There, now you won't look so foolish by pretending you don't know what we're talking about.

Define ordinary...Ordinarily we all are obliged to follow the same rules...

Ya, like having your 2nd Amendment right infringed on because we're not allowed to buy or order a nuke at the local weapons store.

 

[WinterBorn]

Semi autos make good hunting rifles, if you use the proper caliber. The AR makes a great coyote rifle.

The 2nd amendment is not about hunting or target shooting. It never was.

 

[Anathema]

As to your question, law enforcement should never be outgunned like they are because of sales of AR15 types. They should never have to be put in that kind of harm's way, but who cares, right?

Nor should any law abiding gun owner be outgunned by the Government thst answers to him.

 

[Vastator]

Show me the citation that backs up your claim. Americans sell anti aircraft missiles all the time. Just ask the Russians.

So why don't they sell nukes, mines or AA missiles down at the local gun store? I'll tell you why, they aren't allowed to. So doesn't "shall not be infringed" really matter?

Actually if the vendor has the appropriate liscences... He can. Or do you think there’s some magical workshop somewhere where elves secretly fill the governments inventory?

Actually, no vendor has a license to sell nukes, AA missiles... I dare you to find one.

Oops... found one... Got your wallet ready?

It's for my neighbor, Osama bin Falafal. Do they deliver to Beverly Hills?

Call and ask them.

 

[Damaged Eagle]

You already infringed your own intelligence, so what do you care?

I'm trying to figure out why everyone gets their short and curlies in a knot when there are tons of weapons that you can't buy. So why all the fake outrage?

Are you going to place the same limits on all law enforcement agencies?

*****SMILE*****

Anyone who's into Queensryche has to be a major poofter.

You didn't answer the question...

Are you going to place those same limits on all law enforcement agencies?

*****SMILE*****

Ok Tull. That's better.

As to your question, law enforcement should never be outgunned like they are because of sales of AR15 types. They should never have to be put in that kind of harm's way, but who cares, right?

Yeah sure.... Law enforcement is outgunned.

*****SMILE*****

 

[Vastator]

Actually if the vendor has the appropriate liscences... He can. Or do you think there’s some magical workshop somewhere where elves secretly fill the governments inventory?

Actually, no vendor has a license to sell nukes, AA missiles... I dare you to find one.

So... elves it is then?

... to sell to ordinary US citizens. There, now you won't look so foolish by pretending you don't know what we're talking about.

Define ordinary...Ordinarily we all are obliged to follow the same rules...

Ya, like having your 2nd Amendment right infringed on because we're not allowed to buy or order a nuke at the local weapons store.

You cannot afford a nuke. And you know it. Your argument is irrelevant. No local weapons store has enough money to keep one in stock. Again... Your argument is irrelevant. You might as well get pissed that your local horse breeder can’t source you a unicorn....

 

[usmbguest5318]

You have demonstrated, Xelor, that the favoring of AR-15-type rifles is not for hunting or target shooting. And I agree with you. So it has to be some other reason, right? So what is that reason?

I really don't know, but it's clear at least one member isn't of mind to offer an answer that isn't along the lines of "no, no, no."

 

[pismoe]

Pay the tax and you can have grenades.

What about the other stuff? And nukes? Otherwise my rights are being infringement, AND THEY SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED, sir.

Then go get you one... Do you got pockets deeper than Iran? No? Then why are you crying about not being able to afford a product that you cannot make, nor find for purchase?

It's illegal to sell anti-aircraft missiles and nukes in the US, didn't you know that? Isn't my 2nd Amendment right being infringed? Or are we only trying to protect the gun manufacturers?

Show me the citation that backs up your claim. Americans sell anti aircraft missiles all the time. Just ask the Russians.

So why don't they sell nukes, mines or AA missiles down at the local gun store? I'll tell you why, they aren't allowed to. So doesn't "shall not be infringed" really matter?

-------------------------------------------- i think that the original reasoning is that the Second Amendment in the beginning was for farmers , frontiersmen and other people of moderate and poor means . These 'minute men' had to be able to have a musket , ammo , powder and other equipment needed to fight the enemy 'redcoats' . And that was the MINIMUM and if they couldn't afford it it would be provided . If at the time of the American Revolution a moneyed person had the money to own a cannon [nuke] or battleship they could also use that to kill the enemy 'redcoats' Taz ,

 

[usmbguest5318]

“I do not understand the fascination with and demand for semi-automatic rifles”

Fair enough.

As someone who owns semi-automatic rifles, however, I can assure you that the issue has nothing to do with ‘fascination’ or ‘demand.’

If one enjoys the shooting sports – target shooting in particular – then an AR 15 makes for an excellent target rifle.

No, they’re not as accurate as bolt action rifles, but that’s not the point; indeed, I own both semi-auto and bolt action rifles for target shooting, each used in its respective and appropriate application.

And that some might not understand the avocation of target shooting, or not perceive a ‘need’ to own semi-automatic rifles, does not warrant their ban or punitive restriction, such as giving them the same legal designation as fully automatic rifles.

I own both semi-auto and bolt action rifles for target shooting, each used in its respective and appropriate application.

Great and TY for being mature enough to say something positive, unlike what I've observed in at least two posts (#3, #6, so far..)

What are the applications for which a semi-automatic rifle is expressly called for and without regard to fascination with such rifles?

 

[rshermn]

we still have a FREE Country , And maybe as a foreigner to America you don't understand the purpose of the SECOND Amendment XELOR ,

Perhaps you do not understand, or perhaps you are simply lying. You can not legally have a fully automatic weapon. Nor a cannon. Nor an F15. We have rules about guns, and can make any gun illegal if we so desire.

 

[Damaged Eagle]

we still have a FREE Country , And maybe as a foreigner to America you don't understand the purpose of the SECOND Amendment XELOR ,

Perhaps you do not understand, or perhaps you are simply lying. You can not legally have a fully automatic weapon. Nor a cannon. Nor an F15. We have rules about guns, and can make any gun illegal if we so desire.

That would be unwise.

*****SMILE*****

 

[WinterBorn]

we still have a FREE Country , And maybe as a foreigner to America you don't understand the purpose of the SECOND Amendment XELOR ,

Perhaps you do not understand, or perhaps you are simply lying. You can not legally have a fully automatic weapon. Nor a cannon. Nor an F15. We have rules about guns, and can make any gun illegal if we so desire.

Perhaps you are misinformed. Unless you have a criminal record, you can legally own a fully automatic weapon. I'd have to do some research on the cannon, but I'm pretty sure you can own that too.

 

[pismoe]

your 'fos' , at least as far as machine guns go . And the other stuff you mention are unaffordable RMan .

 

[9thIDdoc]

I'm not a hunter or target shooter, though I have on occasion fired a rifle at a stationary target. That said, it seems to me that the only legitimate civilian uses of rifles are for sport -- hunting and target shooting. Perhaps, however, that's an errant predicate, but barring a handful of exceptional circumstances, it doesn't seem to me seem so; thus I'm baffled at the existential fascination gun enthusiasts have with semi-automatic rifles.

Over the past few days and in an effort to challenge my own perception that there is no sound/cogent basis for demanding a semi-automatic rifle for target shooting or game hunting, I've plumbed the Internet seeking input on whether there be any hunting or target shooting sports for which an automatic rifle is necessary or even militated for. So far, I have yet to find one.

What have I found? Well, this:

• Gun recommendations for hunters from multiple sources --> Of them only four recommended a semi-automatic rifle of any sort, and on each list that included a semi-automatic (semi), only one of the rifles recommended is a semi. Among the semis recommended only one was an AR-15-style semi. (I note this only because of what appears to be the AR-15's overwhelming popularity compared to it's incidence of being recommended. For the purpose of this thread, however, that matters not; for the purpose of this discussion, a semi is a semi.)
  • Outdoor Life -- This one recommended an AR-15-style semi.
  • Game and Fish
  • Field and Stream
    • Sub $1000 options
  • American Whitetail -- This one recommended a BAR carbine semi (circa 1967 and, presumably, later)
  • Grand View Outdoors
  • I Like Big Guns and I Cannot Lie: Best Big Bore Rifles - Pew Pew Tactical
  • You Can Hunt Any Animal in the World with Just These 4 Guns
  • The Best Big Game Rifles of All Time - Petersen's Hunting -- This reviewer recommended the Remington Model 74/7400/750.
  • The 20 Best Elk Hunting Rifles Ever Made -- This revier recommended the Browning BAR MK. II Safari Grade .338 (BAR Mark II Safari with BOSS)
• In light of the Olympics, I checked to see what sort of guns biathletes (the biathlon apparently is the #1 televised winer sport in Europe) use. They use guns that roughly look something like an AR-15, but that are yet not semis. That informed me that a rifle can look "cool" (if that be what describes how gun enthusiasts describe the visage of AR-15-style rifles) and not be a semi. It also informed me that, inasmuch as winning at the biathlon is a function of time, firing accurately matters because receives a time deduction for a missed target. That, absent the competitive elements and factors, strikes me as about what matters for hunting game. This part of my inquiry also made me think that it may be that a bolt action rifle, rather than a semi, is used in biathlon because in part perhaps they're more accurate (? -- I don't know...it seems as though there really shouldn't be any difference in that regard, but maybe there is....).
  • 
    
    
    
• Given the above described question about accuracy, I sought an answer to it. Turns out that there is an ongoing debate about exactly that. As the Moirae would have it, there is a multiplicity of factors that affect accuracy. From my high level reading about it, seems to me that which is more accurate depends heavily on situational factors and factors intrinsic to the rifle itself, but in the main a bolt action rifle is considered more accurate.
  • 6 Reasons Why AR Guys Need a Bolt-Action - Shooting Times
    
  • Long Range Shooting with a Semi Auto - AccuracyTech -- This writer's analysis focues on a genre of rifles referred to as "AR10s."
    
  • Best Sniper & Precision Rifle for Beginners [2018] - Pew Pew Tactical
    
  • How to Hit a 1,000-Yard Target with a $500 Rifle
    
  • 12 Next-Gen Precision Rifles For Long-Range Shooting -- Finally, I came by this editorial. It lists multiple sems and multiple bolt action rifles.
    
  • Best .308 Rifle Reviews - Best Target Rifle Guide - Reviewster -- This revier lists quite a few rifles and expounds on three, two of which are semis.

So what did the inquiry above lead me to think? [1] Well, pretty much what I thought before I undertook it: what the hell is the fascination with semis? It seems very clear to me that for hunting and target shooting a semi isn't at all necessary, though it's also clear that semis facilitate follow-up shots if such is needed. All the same, assuming one is is a fair marksman and has in one's sights a single target, a "manual" rifle of some sort will get the job done very effectively for any medium to large game.

Why was I interested in trying to make some sense of just what gives rise to the fascination with semis? Quite simply, it's because in my recollection, all the unlawful rifle users of recent times have used a semi. [2][3] That suggests to me that if there is to be ban, it needs to be a ban of semis, not so-called assault rifles. It also seems to me that if the tactical styling of "next gen" rifles is what drives sales to some consumers, fine. I'm sure that look can be implemented without semi-automatic functionality.

At the end of the day several things strike me as legitimate concerns:

• People do have a right to own guns.
• While the gun doesn't leap off a shelf or rack and go out shooting people, it's clear that people who use rifles to shoot others -- be they shooting single targets as the D.C. Sniper did or shooting indiscriminately at people -- preponderantly choose to do so using semis.
• For most of those rifle gunmen, it's very clear that the rate of fire has had a material impact on the quantity of people whom the shooters killed and/or injured.
• Hunting is a legitimate sporting pursuit and nobody should be denied the ability to enjoy it.
• Target shooting is a legitimate sporting pursuit and nobody should be denied the ability to enjoy it.
• Given the body of available germane information about all sorts of things -- soundly performed psychological research findings, soundly performed sociological research findings, extant limitations on future findings in either discipline, consumer behavior, guns themselves and their various capabilities, fitness for a purpose, extant laws, the nature and extent of law enforcement, the nature and extent of policy solution actions that can be taken, etc. -- it seems to me that rifle enthusiasts are going to have to make or face some sort of concessions on the nature of rifle availability. Access to semis may be among them, too it may not.
• Given the body of available germane information about all sorts of things -- [same list as above] -- it seems to me that gun control advocates are going to have to make or face some sort of concessions on the nature of rifle restrictions. Simply banning all rifles is not an option.
  
• Mass shooters don't much seem to use handguns. (This discussion does not include handguns and it does not construe "semis" as handguns.)

In light of those concerns, it seems to me that declaring semis to have the same status as fully automatic rifles may be one of the viable means and modes of established a basis by which we can reduce deaths an injuries caused by unlawful users of rifles.


Note to Members who are in the "no, no, no" camp as go access and/or gun reporting:

You need not post in this thread because I am well aware of your stance and I know you exist. We all are and do. This thread is not about how many responses it may generate and I'm not canvassing to see what views are most popular here.​

Note:

1. Though I did encounter some coverage given to shotguns, I didn't see much. I inferred from that that either bird hunting isn't especially popular in the U.S. or just about shotgun, roughly speaking, will do as goes bird hunting, the key being the size of the shot one uses more so than the shotgun. I don't really know or care, right now, which of those, if either, be so. It was just a ancillary thought that crossed my mind.
2. I'm thinking back as far as the D.C. sniper days. I have not checked to see if shooters prior to that used semis or didn't use them. I also have relied only on my memory as goes what weapons rifle-murderers used/fired to kill folks.
3. This is flat-out bizarre. -- Based on FBI Uniform Crime Report data, in any given year between 2006 to 2011 (inclusive), rifles and shotguns outstrip handguns in terms of having been used to commit murder; however, over the period as a whole, handguns overwhelming outstrip rifles.
   
   I'm sure there must be an explanation for that strange happenstance, but I don't at this juncture know what it is. It could be that the site that compiled and graphically reported the data goofed somewhere. A "goof" certainly seems plausible given that the FBI's data about victims of rifle and handgun shootings from 2010 to 2014 presents a very different picture.
   
   Be that as it may, it's all too damn many people being unlawfully shot and killed, regardless of the weapon, as far as I'm concerned. That said, this post/thread is about rifles.

"Semiautomatic" is a term used to describe a firing mechanism in which a single round is fired for each pull of the trigger and may describe rifles pistols or shotguns. They are popular with the military police hunters and competition shooters and have been for quite a long time. They are especially popular in handguns used by military police and defensive civilian carry weapons. They are popular shotguns for hunting rabbits waterfowl and upland birds and in rifles for hunting varmints squirrels hogs and deer.
The Constitution is the highest law of the land and any law banning semiautomatic weapons would violate the 2nd Amendment by infringing on the rights of American citizens and constitute tyranny which could easily result in widespread bloodshed.

 

[Kat]

Please get on topic of the OP.

 

[usmbguest5318]

I'm not a hunter or target shooter, though I have on occasion fired a rifle at a stationary target. That said, it seems to me that the only legitimate civilian uses of rifles are for sport -- hunting and target shooting. Perhaps, however, that's an errant predicate, but barring a handful of exceptional circumstances, it doesn't seem to me seem so; thus I'm baffled at the existential fascination gun enthusiasts have with semi-automatic rifles.

Over the past few days and in an effort to challenge my own perception that there is no sound/cogent basis for demanding a semi-automatic rifle for target shooting or game hunting, I've plumbed the Internet seeking input on whether there be any hunting or target shooting sports for which an automatic rifle is necessary or even militated for. So far, I have yet to find one.

What have I found? Well, this:

• Gun recommendations for hunters from multiple sources --> Of them only four recommended a semi-automatic rifle of any sort, and on each list that included a semi-automatic (semi), only one of the rifles recommended is a semi. Among the semis recommended only one was an AR-15-style semi. (I note this only because of what appears to be the AR-15's overwhelming popularity compared to it's incidence of being recommended. For the purpose of this thread, however, that matters not; for the purpose of this discussion, a semi is a semi.)
  • Outdoor Life -- This one recommended an AR-15-style semi.
  • Game and Fish
  • Field and Stream
    • Sub $1000 options
  • American Whitetail -- This one recommended a BAR carbine semi (circa 1967 and, presumably, later)
  • Grand View Outdoors
  • I Like Big Guns and I Cannot Lie: Best Big Bore Rifles - Pew Pew Tactical
  • You Can Hunt Any Animal in the World with Just These 4 Guns
  • The Best Big Game Rifles of All Time - Petersen's Hunting -- This reviewer recommended the Remington Model 74/7400/750.
  • The 20 Best Elk Hunting Rifles Ever Made -- This revier recommended the Browning BAR MK. II Safari Grade .338 (BAR Mark II Safari with BOSS)
• In light of the Olympics, I checked to see what sort of guns biathletes (the biathlon apparently is the #1 televised winer sport in Europe) use. They use guns that roughly look something like an AR-15, but that are yet not semis. That informed me that a rifle can look "cool" (if that be what describes how gun enthusiasts describe the visage of AR-15-style rifles) and not be a semi. It also informed me that, inasmuch as winning at the biathlon is a function of time, firing accurately matters because receives a time deduction for a missed target. That, absent the competitive elements and factors, strikes me as about what matters for hunting game. This part of my inquiry also made me think that it may be that a bolt action rifle, rather than a semi, is used in biathlon because in part perhaps they're more accurate (? -- I don't know...it seems as though there really shouldn't be any difference in that regard, but maybe there is....).
  • 
    
    
    
• Given the above described question about accuracy, I sought an answer to it. Turns out that there is an ongoing debate about exactly that. As the Moirae would have it, there is a multiplicity of factors that affect accuracy. From my high level reading about it, seems to me that which is more accurate depends heavily on situational factors and factors intrinsic to the rifle itself, but in the main a bolt action rifle is considered more accurate.
  • 6 Reasons Why AR Guys Need a Bolt-Action - Shooting Times
    
  • Long Range Shooting with a Semi Auto - AccuracyTech -- This writer's analysis focues on a genre of rifles referred to as "AR10s."
    
  • Best Sniper & Precision Rifle for Beginners [2018] - Pew Pew Tactical
    
  • How to Hit a 1,000-Yard Target with a $500 Rifle
    
  • 12 Next-Gen Precision Rifles For Long-Range Shooting -- Finally, I came by this editorial. It lists multiple sems and multiple bolt action rifles.
    
  • Best .308 Rifle Reviews - Best Target Rifle Guide - Reviewster -- This revier lists quite a few rifles and expounds on three, two of which are semis.

So what did the inquiry above lead me to think? [1] Well, pretty much what I thought before I undertook it: what the hell is the fascination with semis? It seems very clear to me that for hunting and target shooting a semi isn't at all necessary, though it's also clear that semis facilitate follow-up shots if such is needed. All the same, assuming one is is a fair marksman and has in one's sights a single target, a "manual" rifle of some sort will get the job done very effectively for any medium to large game.

Why was I interested in trying to make some sense of just what gives rise to the fascination with semis? Quite simply, it's because in my recollection, all the unlawful rifle users of recent times have used a semi. [2][3] That suggests to me that if there is to be ban, it needs to be a ban of semis, not so-called assault rifles. It also seems to me that if the tactical styling of "next gen" rifles is what drives sales to some consumers, fine. I'm sure that look can be implemented without semi-automatic functionality.

At the end of the day several things strike me as legitimate concerns:

• People do have a right to own guns.
• While the gun doesn't leap off a shelf or rack and go out shooting people, it's clear that people who use rifles to shoot others -- be they shooting single targets as the D.C. Sniper did or shooting indiscriminately at people -- preponderantly choose to do so using semis.
• For most of those rifle gunmen, it's very clear that the rate of fire has had a material impact on the quantity of people whom the shooters killed and/or injured.
• Hunting is a legitimate sporting pursuit and nobody should be denied the ability to enjoy it.
• Target shooting is a legitimate sporting pursuit and nobody should be denied the ability to enjoy it.
• Given the body of available germane information about all sorts of things -- soundly performed psychological research findings, soundly performed sociological research findings, extant limitations on future findings in either discipline, consumer behavior, guns themselves and their various capabilities, fitness for a purpose, extant laws, the nature and extent of law enforcement, the nature and extent of policy solution actions that can be taken, etc. -- it seems to me that rifle enthusiasts are going to have to make or face some sort of concessions on the nature of rifle availability. Access to semis may be among them, too it may not.
• Given the body of available germane information about all sorts of things -- [same list as above] -- it seems to me that gun control advocates are going to have to make or face some sort of concessions on the nature of rifle restrictions. Simply banning all rifles is not an option.
  
• Mass shooters don't much seem to use handguns. (This discussion does not include handguns and it does not construe "semis" as handguns.)

In light of those concerns, it seems to me that declaring semis to have the same status as fully automatic rifles may be one of the viable means and modes of established a basis by which we can reduce deaths an injuries caused by unlawful users of rifles.


Note to Members who are in the "no, no, no" camp as go access and/or gun reporting:

You need not post in this thread because I am well aware of your stance and I know you exist. We all are and do. This thread is not about how many responses it may generate and I'm not canvassing to see what views are most popular here.​

Note:

1. Though I did encounter some coverage given to shotguns, I didn't see much. I inferred from that that either bird hunting isn't especially popular in the U.S. or just about shotgun, roughly speaking, will do as goes bird hunting, the key being the size of the shot one uses more so than the shotgun. I don't really know or care, right now, which of those, if either, be so. It was just a ancillary thought that crossed my mind.
2. I'm thinking back as far as the D.C. sniper days. I have not checked to see if shooters prior to that used semis or didn't use them. I also have relied only on my memory as goes what weapons rifle-murderers used/fired to kill folks.
3. This is flat-out bizarre. -- Based on FBI Uniform Crime Report data, in any given year between 2006 to 2011 (inclusive), rifles and shotguns outstrip handguns in terms of having been used to commit murder; however, over the period as a whole, handguns overwhelming outstrip rifles.
   
   I'm sure there must be an explanation for that strange happenstance, but I don't at this juncture know what it is. It could be that the site that compiled and graphically reported the data goofed somewhere. A "goof" certainly seems plausible given that the FBI's data about victims of rifle and handgun shootings from 2010 to 2014 presents a very different picture.
   
   Be that as it may, it's all too damn many people being unlawfully shot and killed, regardless of the weapon, as far as I'm concerned. That said, this post/thread is about rifles.

"Semiautomatic" is a term used to describe a firing mechanism in which a single round is fired for each pull of the trigger and may describe rifles pistols or shotguns. They are popular with the military police hunters and competition shooters and have been for quite a long time. They are especially popular in handguns used by military police and defensive civilian carry weapons. They are popular shotguns for hunting rabbits waterfowl and upland birds and in rifles for hunting varmints squirrels hogs and deer.
The Constitution is the highest law of the land and any law banning semiautomatic weapons would violate the 2nd Amendment by infringing on the rights of American citizens and constitute tyranny which could easily result in widespread bloodshed.

may describe rifles pistols or shotguns

Be that as it may, the device scope of this thread is rifles, specifically "manual" and semi-automatic rifles. I was very clear about that in the thread title and OP.

I do not understand the fascination with and demand for semi-automatic rifles

Of them only four recommended a semi-automatic rifle of any sort

rifle restrictions

Simply banning all rifles is not an option

This discussion does not include handguns and it does not construe "semis" as handguns

They are popular with the military police hunters

What, exactly, is a "military police hunter?"

• Someone who hunts military police?
• Military police who are also hunters?
• Members of the military who also hunt police?
• Something other than one of those?

They are popular with ... competition shooters and have been for quite a long time.

Off-topic, sort of; and on-topic sort of:

Well, I'm willing to entertain that being so, but as you can see from the content of two of my main OP's bullet points, such weapons seem not to be used by Olympic biathletes nor do they feature prominently among the recommendations of several folks who presumably are target shooting experts. So while I'm open to accepting your assertion of semis being popular among target shooters, just as I didn't make and ask folks to accept weakly (not a lot of examples) supported or unsubstantiated assertions about existential normative or positive preferences among "gun intelligencia" for or against semis, I expect a comparable measure of consideration in return.

If you want to express why you personally feel a semi is necessary, fine, your say-so is sufficient for that. When you start generalizing about what is or isn't "popular with competition shooters," your say-so needs support. It does because, while it's nice to learn what any given individual thinks, what I'm seeking is input about the fascination with semis that is credible and that pertains to the gun enthusiast community in general, or to a subset of it such as competition shooters, though again in general.

Surely you understand why that is, right? I can't do much with assertions whereby if I'm of a mind to incorporate them into my own analysis, the only basis I have for their credibility is "this person about whom I can verify noting said 'such and such' about nature and/or extent of semis' popularity among competition shooters, and I've thus taken that person's remarks as so." You do see the glaring lack of of rigor there, don't you?

That, of course works both ways. I'm fairly knowledgeable in a handful of disciplines/communities. I can assert that here, but I know readers here cannot verify that about me. Accordingly, I don't ask folks to take my word for things. Instead, I provide highly credible references that corroborate my assertions about the general nature of "whatever." Of course, I share anecdotes and whatnot, but rarely do they form the basis upon which I found my conclusions/assertions, and when they do, I'm very clear about stating that my anecdotal experience and observations, not something far more credible and rigorous, form the basis of my assertions.

I realize that to some, my bar for discourse about public policy matters is one over which they don't care to jump. That's fine; I have no problem with that. I ask only that if one isn't of a mind to match the rigor I offer in my discourse, don't engage in the discourse, be a reader rather than a writer. Alternatively, if one wants to be a written participant, simply be sure not to make remarks that outstrip the range of validity of one's remarks reflect.​

 

[Taz]

As to your question, law enforcement should never be outgunned like they are because of sales of AR15 types. They should never have to be put in that kind of harm's way, but who cares, right?

Nor should any law abiding gun owner be outgunned by the Government thst answers to him.

The gov has nukes and all the other shit they don’t allow you to buy. Wake up brah, you’re seriously outgunned already.

 

[Taz]

So why don't they sell nukes, mines or AA missiles down at the local gun store? I'll tell you why, they aren't allowed to. So doesn't "shall not be infringed" really matter?

Actually if the vendor has the appropriate liscences... He can. Or do you think there’s some magical workshop somewhere where elves secretly fill the governments inventory?

Actually, no vendor has a license to sell nukes, AA missiles... I dare you to find one.

Oops... found one... Got your wallet ready?

It's for my neighbor, Osama bin Falafal. Do they deliver to Beverly Hills?

Call and ask them.

Give me the number and website.

 

[Anathema]

The gov has nukes and all the other shit they don’t allow you to buy. Wake up brah, you’re seriously outgunned already.

Better to die on my feet than live on my knees.