CDZ I do not understand the fascination with and demand for semi-automatic rifles

Discussion in 'Clean Debate Zone' started by usmbguest5318, Feb 25, 2018.

  1. PredFan
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    PredFan Platinum Member

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    No, he has not. A great many of us use them for hunting, target practice and collecting. I hunt hogs with mine but I know people who hunt deer and coyotes with theirs.
     
  2. Taz
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    Taz VIP Member

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    Naw, it's ok, I already have no idea wtf you're talking about. :biggrin:
     
  3. ding
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    ding Confront reality

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    Let me break it down for you. Restrictions on weapons that a light infantry ought NOT to have is not a restriction on the 2nd Amendment.
     
  4. Admiral Rockwell Tory
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    Admiral Rockwell Tory Gold Member

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    Merry-go-rounds are usually safe.
     
  5. usmbguest5318
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    usmbguest5318 Gold Member

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    There is no debating that semi-automatic rifles can be used for hunting and target shooting sports. Truly, I'm not of a mind to show that semi-automatic rifles are not "for" hunting, but rather that there are viable alternatives to them "for" hunting and that in the minds of a good quantity of firearms and hunting experts (click the link and see the exception noted in the content), those alternatives are better or equally effective for shooting things other than humans.
     
  6. C_Clayton_Jones
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    C_Clayton_Jones Diamond Member

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    All true – but that’s not the issue.

    AR 15s are fun to shoot, they’re fun to build and modify.

    Owning and shooting AR 15s, AK 47s, and HK 91s is an avocation, a pastime – indeed, a passion for many.

    And those who own and shoot such rifles do so in a safe and responsible manner, in an appropriate venue, ensuring their guns are properly secured when not in use.

    That there are in fact other rifles better suited for hunting and target shooting is irrelevant and completely misses the point.

    Moreover, it’s not incumbent upon owners to ‘justify’ their avocation, something done responsibly as private citizens; nor is it warranted for government to needlessly interfere with responsible gun owners enjoying their avocation, however subjective and devoid of merit some might perceive that avocation to be.

    “But children shouldn’t die so you can enjoy your silly hobby.”

    The problem with this is there’s no evidence that responsible owners of AR 15s are the cause of mass school shootings; that some might commit crimes with AR 15s is not a valid reason to deny otherwise responsible individuals access to, or possession of, an AR 15, particularly when such a prohibition will not have the desired effect.
     
  7. Pete7469
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    Pete7469 Gold Member

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    You will never be able to understand things you're programmed to hate. You are not interested in understanding it anyway.
     
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  8. Dale Smith
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    Dale Smith Gold Member

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    There are many things that you do not understand and comprehend....doesn't make you a bad person at all. Simply means that you are woefully uninformed.
     
  9. Pete7469
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    Pete7469 Gold Member

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    It's one thing to be uninformed, or misinformed.

    This is a case of people being deliberately ignorant.

    The information is available, everywhere. These people make an effort to to not only ignore it, but keep other people from being exposed to it. There is no excuse for not understanding why someone would want the most effective tools available for their own self preservation if they're faced with a violent threat.

    No excuse at all.


     
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  10. usmbguest5318
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    usmbguest5318 Gold Member

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    First, let me clarify something for you. My post to which you responded had only one objective, that of demurring from the attestation another member made about my OP having tacitly/explicitly made a point that (1) it didn't make and (2) it didn't aim to make.

    As goes this thread, there is truly only one so-called "issue," which really isn't an issue at all but rather an exhortation.
    Organizational structure of the OP essay:
    1. Thesis statement with its implicit question:
      • Statement: "I don't understand the fascination with and demand for with semi-automatic rifles."
      • Implicit question: What are the rational drivers of the fascination with and demand for with semi-automatic rifles?
        • Obviously, I don't need anyone to expound on the nature and extent of emotional drivers because there's really only one emotional driver that is relevant and that one is unlawful. All other emotional drivers are, well, emotional, that is to say ephemeral, and they are surely as numerous as are stars in the sky.
    2. Identification of (1) what observations contribute to the understanding I currently have pertaining to the nature of differences between semi-automatic rifles and other types of rifle and (2) the sources from which that understanding is drawn.
      • The only point of this section's presence the OP essay is so that readers who are willing to and can offer substantive answers to the thesis question understand what information forms the basis for my current understandings about semi-automatic rifles and other genres of rifles and structure their remarks accordingly.
    3. Two part conclusion:
      • Identification of reason I have pondered what be the fascination with and demand for with semi-automatic rifles.
      • Identification of rational inferences I've drawn based on my current understanding.
    Obtaining people's well considered answers to the implicit thesis question is the only "issue" for this thread. Were I to have had some other purpose, I truly could have posed a loaded question (written a loaded thesis statement), but because I merely want well considered answers to a question that presupposes nothing other than one's having fascination with and expressing a demand for semi-automatic rifles. For example, I could have inserted qualifying words or phases to modify "fascination," "demand" and/or "semi-automatic rifles." I did no such thing so to tacitly convey to skilled readers that my inquiry is simply to gain credible/reliable information.

    What the remarks above allude to is that the fascination with and demand for with semi-automatic rifles derives from what one call a hobbyist collector's passion. That fine, but it's also emotional. [1] That said, I don't seek a justification; I seek an explanation(s), one that is credible.

    I and several friends and acquaintances collect art and I once collected Avengers comic books; one friend collects cars; Momma collected ceramics and crystal; a relative collects purses, another friend collects mechanical watches; one collects political convention/campaign paraphernalia and bumper stickers, and yet another coins, for example. I even have an acquaintance (not a close one but one with whom I occasionally cross paths and socialize) who collects weaponry and armor -- firearms, blades, bows and arrows, armor and shields -- and while he doesn't have much use for most of the items in his collection, he does use the firearms in it. [2] The point being that the notion of hobbyist collecting isn't abstruse to me.

    Strangely, however, unlike myself and the other folks whom I know to be hobbyist collectors of one thing or another, when bid to expound upon the impetus for their fascination with whatever they collect, they gleefully respond with all sorts of interesting and useful information about themselves and their relationship with the object of their affinity. They wax poetically and effusively about their motivations and consumptive behavior re: their hobby because (1) like anyone, they relish opportunities to share a piece of themselves with others -- it's what social beings do, and (2) they're well aware that most folks simply aren't interested in their hobby, so, when expressly entreated to do so, they take advantage of the opportunity to extol their avocation and to share of themselves.

    Contrast that very typical behavior pattern with the near universal reticence of folks here who, assuming anyone here does indeed consider themselves to be a rifle collector as opposed to merely a rifle user, behave completely opposite to that, in some cases snidely so (see post #3 and the folks who share that member's sentiment). A handful of members have, however, provided their personal reasons for why they own a specific semi-automatic rifle(s) they do, and I've thanked them for doing so. [3] All the same, I am looking for something more universally applicable than a single individual's specific reason(s). After all, being a member of a hobbyist community most often results in one having a very fine understanding of the general behavior and motivations of others in that community, even though there are nuances that distinguish individual members of that community.

    Speaking of behavioral and psychological differences, the collectors whom I know to collect mechanical devices without exception have a strong preference for the manually operated versions of those devices. Moreover, an acquaintance who is a racecar driver (he's not a car collector) prefers manual transmission cars for his personal use, but for his profession, he and his competitors drive semi-automatic transmission cars because such transmissions shift with both more alacrity and aplomb than can any human. That concept -- that of employing for professional purposes the most effective tool for whatever be the primary end -- seems, by their rhetoric, for folks who are fascinated with semi-automatic rifles [4] to be completely the opposite. That is yet another reason I created this thread.

    Note:
    1. Yes, certain things one collects might have a smidgen of value-appreciation potential associated with them; however, with rare exception, the temporal exigencies associated with value increase are such that there is no rational basis for value-appreciation being a primary or secondary driver, which is why collecting is an avocation not a vocation.
    2. I went hunting with him once. He used a 100+ year-old shotgun that he'd restored to "like new" condition. I jokingly asked him if he was sure the darn thing wouldn't explode when he fired it.
    3. One member posted his/her reason -- CDZ - I do not understand the fascination with and demand for semi-automatic rifles -- and I didn't offer any gratitude for their doing so. I didn't because while I accept that it is that member's basis for his/her fascination with and/or demand for semi-automatic rifles, I decided that the remark merited one of two responses: (1) ignore it because it's flat-out insipid, and/or (2) inform law enforcement authorities that that nut job apparently demands semi-automatic rifles for the purpose of opportunistically hunting people whom s/he considers to be either "Gov-Thugs" and/or "Lib-Scum" and let them figure out whether he's someone about whom society should be concerned or whether s/he's merely a poor communicator, be it on the communication consumption or expression dimension.
    4. You'll notice I haven't at all discussed semi-automatic handguns. I understand exactly what forms the basis for people's demand and fascination with them. That said, unlike a pistol, which is a very fine short-range defensive weapon, a rifle is first and foremost a long-range offensive weapon. Of course, if folks have nothing other than a rifle for short-range defense, then a rifle is what they'll use, but such is clearly secondary to a rifle's raison d'etre.

    It doesn't miss the point of this thread. That there are is the very reason I created this thread.

    1. What "this?"
    2. No evidence...: Well, duh! There's never going to be evidence to that effect because, quite simply, responsible owners and users of AR-15s and every other device that might be used to kill people don't willfully use them to do so, and they certainly don't use them to commit mass shootings. I don't care for how long one can appear to be a responsible gun owner:
      • the instant one uses one's firearm for an unlawful purpose, one can no longer be said to be a responsible owner of that firearm, and
      • the instant one stores one's firearm so that unauthorized users, without undertaking extraordinary measures [1], obtain possession of it, one can no longer be be said to be a responsible owner of that firearm.

    Note:
    1. What's an extraordinary measure? Well, there are too many to enumerate, but breaking into one's locked safe and taking a gun found there is an extraordinary measure whereas breaking into one's car and taking a gun found hidden there, or taking the car and late finding a gun hidden in it, is not an extraordinary measure. The latter is not extraordinary with regard to the gun (an unauthorized person's obtaining it) because while the action to break into the car is extraordinary, if the gun is not in plain sight, the extraordinary measure aimed at the car itself or some object that was visibly within it or known by the burglar to be in it.
     

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