CDZ I do not understand the fascination with and demand for semi-automatic rifles

[Dayton3]

AR-15s are lightweight but can be noisy and almost endlessly accessorized.

In short, they are fun.

 

[Wild Bill Kelsoe]

It's simply a matter of personal preference some prefer semi automatic rifles others bolt action rifles some a semi automatic pistol others six shot revolver some shotguns.

I like'em all

 

[Donald H]

Is your statement, above, one of ignorance, or dishonesty?

The .223 Remington (designated as the 223 Remington by the SAAMI[3] and 223 Rem by the CIP[4]) is a rimless, bottlenecked rifle cartridge. It was developed in 1957 by Remington Arms and Fairchild Industries for the U.S. Continental Army Command of the United States Army as part of a project to create a small-caliber, high-velocity firearm. The .223 Remington is considered one of the most popular cartridges and is currently used by a wide range of semi-automatic and manual-action rifles as well as handguns.

In the US Army, the cartridge is referred to as "Cartridge, 5.56 mm ball M193." The 5.56×45mm NATO was also developed from the 223 Remington.[5]...on.[5] In September 1963, the .223 Remington cartridge was officially accepted and named "Cartridge, 5.56 mm ball, M193"

.223 Remington - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Neither ignorance or dishonesty.
Several reasons why they aren't the same and so a couple of hints for you:

1. weak bullets
2. safety concerns
3. Common to 7.62 nato concerns.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Neither ignorance or dishonesty.
Several reasons why they aren't the same ,...

Ah. You choose to lie.
Got it.
Thanks.

 

[FA_Q2]

Every one of these threads starts off with the same massively flawed and false assumption, that there is any NEED or reason whatsoever for anyone to exercise any right.

The flat truth of the matter is that there is not, period. No one has to justify to anyone why they do or do not want to exercise their natural rights. The justification is on the other foot.

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

Why do people go out and buy the new Dodge Chargers or Ford Mustangs? Or even the Ferrari sports coup? Because in the United States it is the freedom to buy what ever you want as long as you do it legally. Now since we have a rogue government who is trying to control all of our lives, by keeping US locked up, demanding that we wear a useless mask when we are outside, or get a jab of a gene altering liquid that has been seen what the effects will be in 2 or more years, some people have decided to go out and purchase a weapon, because said government is allowing diseased people to come across our southern border and who knows their intent to a US citizen. But you can sure bet every day that government is plotting and planning on getting US to give up our weapons, because then they can do what ever they want to and we wont be able to stop them. Here are a couple of examples when people arent allowed to buy AR-15s


The government has guns, the citizens dont..




The government has guns, the citizens dont..

 

[Colin norris]

EDIT:

Several readers have responded remarking specifically about the AR-15 genre of rifles. I don't know if they didn't read the whole OP, but this post/thread is about semi-automatic rifles in general, and the AR-15 is but one form of them, albeit, apparently, the most popular one. I've not in the main post below singled out the AR-15 genre of semi-automatic rifles.​

Edit end.


I'm not a hunter or target shooter, though I have on occasion fired a rifle at a stationary target. That said, it seems to me that the only legitimate civilian uses of rifles are for sport -- hunting and target shooting. Perhaps, however, that's an errant predicate, but barring a handful of exceptional circumstances, it doesn't seem to me seem so; thus I'm baffled at the existential fascination gun enthusiasts have with semi-automatic rifles.

Over the past few days and in an effort to challenge my own perception that there is no sound/cogent basis for demanding a semi-automatic rifle for target shooting or game hunting, I've plumbed the Internet seeking input on whether there be any hunting or target shooting sports for which an automatic rifle is necessary or even militated for. So far, I have yet to find one.

What have I found? Well, this:

• Gun recommendations for hunters from multiple sources --> Of them only four recommended a semi-automatic rifle of any sort, and on each list that included a semi-automatic (semi), only one of the rifles recommended is a semi. Among the semis recommended only one was an AR-15-style semi. (I note this only because of what appears to be the AR-15's overwhelming popularity compared to it's incidence of being recommended. For the purpose of this thread, however, that matters not; for the purpose of this discussion, a semi is a semi.)
  • Outdoor Life -- This one recommended an AR-15-style semi.
  • Game and Fish
  • Field and Stream
    • Sub $1000 options
  • American Whitetail -- This one recommended a BAR carbine semi (circa 1967 and, presumably, later)
  • Grand View Outdoors
  • I Like Big Guns and I Cannot Lie: Best Big Bore Rifles - Pew Pew Tactical
  • You Can Hunt Any Animal in the World with Just These 4 Guns
  • The Best Big Game Rifles of All Time - Petersen's Hunting -- This reviewer recommended the Remington Model 74/7400/750.
  • The 20 Best Elk Hunting Rifles Ever Made -- This revier recommended the Browning BAR MK. II Safari Grade .338 (BAR Mark II Safari with BOSS)
• In light of the Olympics, I checked to see what sort of guns biathletes (the biathlon apparently is the #1 televised winer sport in Europe) use. They use guns that roughly look something like an AR-15, but that are yet not semis. That informed me that a rifle can look "cool" (if that be what describes how gun enthusiasts describe the visage of AR-15-style rifles) and not be a semi. It also informed me that, inasmuch as winning at the biathlon is a function of time, firing accurately matters because receives a time deduction for a missed target. That, absent the competitive elements and factors, strikes me as about what matters for hunting game. This part of my inquiry also made me think that it may be that a bolt action rifle, rather than a semi, is used in biathlon because in part perhaps they're more accurate (? -- I don't know...it seems as though there really shouldn't be any difference in that regard, but maybe there is....).
  • 
    
    
    
• Given the above described question about accuracy, I sought an answer to it. Turns out that there is an ongoing debate about exactly that. As the Moirae would have it, there is a multiplicity of factors that affect accuracy. From my high level reading about it, seems to me that which is more accurate depends heavily on situational factors and factors intrinsic to the rifle itself, but in the main a bolt action rifle is considered more accurate.
  • 6 Reasons Why AR Guys Need a Bolt-Action - Shooting Times
    
  • Long Range Shooting with a Semi Auto - AccuracyTech -- This writer's analysis focues on a genre of rifles referred to as "AR10s."
    
  • Best Sniper & Precision Rifle for Beginners [2018] - Pew Pew Tactical
    
  • How to Hit a 1,000-Yard Target with a $500 Rifle
    
  • 12 Next-Gen Precision Rifles For Long-Range Shooting -- Finally, I came by this editorial. It lists multiple sems and multiple bolt action rifles.
    
  • Best .308 Rifle Reviews - Best Target Rifle Guide - Reviewster -- This revier lists quite a few rifles and expounds on three, two of which are semis.

So what did the inquiry above lead me to think? [1] Well, pretty much what I thought before I undertook it: what the hell is the fascination with semis? It seems very clear to me that for hunting and target shooting a semi isn't at all necessary, though it's also clear that semis facilitate follow-up shots if such is needed. All the same, assuming one is is a fair marksman and has in one's sights a single target, a "manual" rifle of some sort will get the job done very effectively for any medium to large game.

Why was I interested in trying to make some sense of just what gives rise to the fascination with semis? Quite simply, it's because in my recollection, all the unlawful rifle users of recent times have used a semi. [2][3] That suggests to me that if there is to be ban, it needs to be a ban of semis, not so-called assault rifles. It also seems to me that if the tactical styling of "next gen" rifles is what drives sales to some consumers, fine. I'm sure that look can be implemented without semi-automatic functionality.

At the end of the day several things strike me as legitimate concerns:

• People do have a right to own guns.
• While the gun doesn't leap off a shelf or rack and go out shooting people, it's clear that people who use rifles to shoot others -- be they shooting single targets as the D.C. Sniper did or shooting indiscriminately at people -- preponderantly choose to do so using semis.
• For most of those rifle gunmen, it's very clear that the rate of fire has had a material impact on the quantity of people whom the shooters killed and/or injured.
• Hunting is a legitimate sporting pursuit and nobody should be denied the ability to enjoy it.
• Target shooting is a legitimate sporting pursuit and nobody should be denied the ability to enjoy it.
• Given the body of available germane information about all sorts of things -- soundly performed psychological research findings, soundly performed sociological research findings, extant limitations on future findings in either discipline, consumer behavior, guns themselves and their various capabilities, fitness for a purpose, extant laws, the nature and extent of law enforcement, the nature and extent of policy solution actions that can be taken, etc. -- it seems to me that rifle enthusiasts are going to have to make or face some sort of concessions on the nature of rifle availability. Access to semis may be among them, too it may not.
• Given the body of available germane information about all sorts of things -- [same list as above] -- it seems to me that gun control advocates are going to have to make or face some sort of concessions on the nature of rifle restrictions. Simply banning all rifles is not an option.
  
• Mass shooters don't much seem to use handguns. (This discussion does not include handguns and it does not construe "semis" as handguns.)

In light of those concerns, it seems to me that declaring semis to have the same status as fully automatic rifles may be one of the viable means and modes of established a basis by which we can reduce deaths an injuries caused by unlawful users of rifles.


Note to Members who are in the "no, no, no" camp as go access and/or gun reporting:

You need not post in this thread because I am well aware of your stance and I know you exist. We all are and do. This thread is not about how many responses it may generate and I'm not canvassing to see what views are most popular here.​

Note:

1. Though I did encounter some coverage given to shotguns, I didn't see much. I inferred from that that either bird hunting isn't especially popular in the U.S. or just about shotgun, roughly speaking, will do as goes bird hunting, the key being the size of the shot one uses more so than the shotgun. I don't really know or care, right now, which of those, if either, be so. It was just a ancillary thought that crossed my mind.
2. I'm thinking back as far as the D.C. sniper days. I have not checked to see if shooters prior to that used semis or didn't use them. I also have relied only on my memory as goes what weapons rifle-murderers used/fired to kill folks.
3. This is flat-out bizarre. -- Based on FBI Uniform Crime Report data, in any given year between 2006 to 2011 (inclusive), rifles and shotguns outstrip handguns in terms of having been used to commit murder; however, over the period as a whole, handguns overwhelming outstrip rifles.
   
   I'm sure there must be an explanation for that strange happenstance, but I don't at this juncture know what it is. It could be that the site that compiled and graphically reported the data goofed somewhere. A "goof" certainly seems plausible given that the FBI's data about victims of rifle and handgun shootings from 2010 to 2014 presents a very different picture.
   
   Be that as it may, it's all too damn many people being unlawfully shot and killed, regardless of the weapon, as far as I'm concerned. That said, this post/thread is about rifles.
   
   Make no mistake. Guns in America are mostly about power, ego and testosterone. That 2nd never has entered the debate and never will.
   
   The clots thinks it keeps them free.
   
   There is no reason under the sun an average citizen would have a justifable reason to own one. The have them because they can. Nothing else.

 

[GLASNOST]

I do not understand the fascination with and demand for semi-automatic rifles​

I don't understand the fascination with collecting stamps or trying to have sex with women from as many different countries as possible. People are human ... and they are bored.

 

[GLASNOST]

Every one of these threads starts off with the same massively flawed and false assumption, that there is any NEED or reason whatsoever for anyone to exercise any right.

The flat truth of the matter is that there is not, period. No one has to justify to anyone why they do or do not want to exercise their natural rights. The justification is on the other foot.

Where in this subject do you see a "natural right"?

 

[GLASNOST]

Has anyone ever heard the term "arms race"? Why are there people who think the international "arms race" is any different from the domestic one?

 

[Plow Boy]

False.
The AR15 was developed by Colt from the M16 to be a "sporting rifle".
There are a great number of shooting sports involving rifles, none of which involve killing a human attacker.

You must not know much about rifles, a .30 caliber center fire is the preferred round for hunting things like deer. It’s not the .223/5.56mm that is the preferred round for a hunter. That is the round that is preferred in magazine fed rifles, at this time. Most commonly for defense.

Was the 12 gauge shotgun invented to hunt, or kill people, because it can do both very well.

 

[Plow Boy]

This is neither a rifle nor is it an auto, it is a 12 gauge pump security shotgun. It is a Stevens Model 320 and it is inexpensive.
If you loathe a magazine fed rifle, then you must loathe this also.

It’s a standard weapon for security guys, and it is in thousands of houses, for security duty. Loaded with buckshot, it can reliably kill a man with one shot.

 

[Plow Boy]

False.
The AR15 was developed by Colt from the M16 to be a "sporting rifle".
There are a great number of shooting sports involving rifles, none of which involve killing a human attacker.

False? You must mean that I am wrong, but I can tell you that I don’t write false hoods.

Read more: AR 15 Rifle - A Brief History & Historical Time Line

1963​

The Air Force standardizes the AR 15 and designates the rifle M-16. 85,000 rifles are purchased by the Air Force. Also this year, the US Army purchases 85,000 more M-16 rifles.

1965​

By this time, the M-16 had become the military’s primary service rifle, with over 300,000 purchased from Colt, now known as Colt’s Inc., Firearms Division.

The original intent may have been for hunting, and if it was it seems silly. The AR-15 became the M-16, because the AF could see it for what it was.

AR 15 Rifle - A Brief History & Historical Time Line

The AR 15 Rifle has become the most popular general purpose rifle platform since, well, since ever...

www.ammoland.com

Note: I will retract what I said about you not knowing rifles, but you have your p’s and q’s messed up.

 

[westwall]

False? You must mean that I am wrong, but I can tell you that I don’t write falswhoops.

Read more: AR 15 Rifle - A Brief History & Historical Time Line

1963​

The Air Force standardizes the AR 15 and designates the rifle M-16. 85,000 rifles are purchased by the Air Force. Also this year, the US Army purchases 85,000 more M-16 rifles.

1965​

By this time, the M-16 had become the military’s primary service rifle, with over 300,000 purchased from Colt, now known as Colt’s Inc., Firearms Division.

The original intent may have been for hunting, and if it was it seems silly. The AR-15 became the M-16, because the AF could see it for what it was.

AR 15 Rifle - A Brief History & Historical Time Line

The AR 15 Rifle has become the most popular general purpose rifle platform since, well, since ever...

www.ammoland.com

Who cares. The SCOTUS has already ruled that military firearms are the only ones protected by the 2nd Amendment.

It wasn't written for hunters or target shooters. It was written so that we the people can have the means to get rid of an iligitimate government.

 

[Plow Boy]

Has anyone ever heard the term "arms race"? Why are there people who think the international "arms race" is any different from the domestic one?

It wasn’t this way at all in the 1970’s, I have never seen anything like it.
Guns are flying off of the shelves, and some people are buying crates of ammo. They are very afraid of what they have seen, with Antifa and the federal government. There is a lawlessness now, that wasn’t there before.

 

[Plow Boy]

Who cares. The SCOTUS has already ruled that military firearms are the only ones protected by the 2nd Amendment.

It was written for hunters or target shooters. It was written so that we the people can have the means to get rid of an iligitimate government.

When the second amendment was written America was fighting England, and ridding itself of a tyrant. Today, you are free to buy magazine fed guns, and that’s what I am doing. You should consider getting one, I foresee a need for them in the future.

 

[fncceo]

I do not understand​

Clearly

 

[westwall]

When the second amendment was written America was fighting England, and ridding itself of a tyrant. Today, you are free to buy magazine fed guns, and that’s what I am doing. You should consider getting one, I foresee a need for them in the future.

I have many.

 

[GLASNOST]

It wasn’t this way at all in the 1970’s, I have never seen anything like it.
Guns are flying off of the shelves, and some people are buying crates of ammo. They are very afraid of what they have seen, with Antifa and the federal government. There is a lawlessness now, that wasn’t there before.

That's a fact! The cops, the criminals, and the frightened are all in an arms race triangle against one another.

* The cops are arming themselves against the criminals and the frightened
* The criminals are arming themselves against the cops and the frightened
* The frightened are arming themselves against the criminals and the cops

 

[FA_Q2]

Where in this subject do you see a "natural right"?

The 'demand' for semi-automatic rifles is an extension of the natural right to one's own defense and is protected under the second amendment.

That is where I see a natural rights.