I Do Not Celebrate Thanksgiving

[Shogun]

oh yes, there is a DIRECT comparison between the zionists and the nazis. Walk Disney didn't want to believe these kinds of things about his favorite ethnic group either.

AND, under the LAWS of Germany at the time so too was it completely legal to throw the jews who refused to leave the county into concentration camps for the sake of an Aryan nation. The legality of it means jack shit to the people being thrown behind the wall, gunny. The Louisianan purchase was LEGAL too.. Is that supposed to placate those whose land was being confiscated?

Indeed, your very question unravels the entire foundation for validating an Israel whose ONLY focus is jews. I sure don't see anyone balking at using thousands of years of jewish ancient history to validate israel. I sure don't see a single other valid reason to carve israel out of the mid east outside of such burning bush excuses. Why is it that the ONLY people who seem to deserve this national consideration is jewish? Why do, when asking for the same historic consideration, the goyim not count, gunny? Is a 50 year old jewish nation worth the modern trail of tears? If you think so then try asking a palestinian whose existance is overshadowed by zionism and the concern for the apparent uber-humanity of the chosen.

Funny, we only make rationalizations about conquest when we are the ones doing the conquering. I'm not going to make excuses for the historic words of a jewish Cortez. They are what they are and they say what they say and ignoring them for the sake of babying jews is no better than Walk Disney babying Adolph Eichman.

And ILL keep asking the same valid question that Irans president asks: Why should the mid east pay the price for euro racism? Want to blame the real culprit? Great! Give the jews what was once East Germany. Euro's jewish problem has nothing to do with justifying tossing that problem at the pals and ignoring the zionist mistreatment of pals.


All I wanted to comment on was the primary source that is David Ben-gurion's quotes. We can avoid turning this into another front if we stop trying to ignore valid, relevant words from one of the dudes originally pushing for a state of israel. Hell, we might as well let a Brit suggest that the declaration of Independance was just a tiny memo that has no real consequences in hisotry.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Actually Jews were NOT allowed to leave. It was not a matter of throwing them out, Germany didn't try that approach at all, they stripped them of rights, money property and then herded them up for slave labor and murder.

Be so kind as to show ANY of that happening in Israel OR in "Palastine" by Israelis.

 

[Shogun]

rights, money property

is this a sick joke? You can't figure out where the pals were stripped of their rights, money and property?

Germany didn't prohibit the emmigration of jews out of the country. Many jews, in fact, left Germany. Not everyone had the option but, certainly, nazi germany was in no business of RETAINING jews. You know, much like how Israel is not in the business of retaining a viable muslim population that might threaten jeish demographics. IN fact, we can compare the actual laws Germany put in place to protect their Aryan bloodline if you think you can stomach seeing the same thing coming out of zionist israel...


Your call. Just remember, I've got these links ready for you so, please, respond in kind. You know how I feel about empty rhetoric.

 

[Gunny]

oh yes, there is a DIRECT comparison between the zionists and the nazis. Walk Disney didn't want to believe these kinds of things about his favorite ethnic group either.

AND, under the LAWS of Germany at the time so too was it completely legal to throw the jews who refused to leave the county into concentration camps for the sake of an Aryan nation. The legality of it means jack shit to the people being thrown behind the wall, gunny. The Louisianan purchase was LEGAL too.. Is that supposed to placate those whose land was being confiscated?

Indeed, your very question unravels the entire foundation for validating an Israel whose ONLY focus is jews. I sure don't see anyone balking at using thousands of years of jewish ancient history to validate israel. I sure don't see a single other valid reason to carve israel out of the mid east outside of such burning bush excuses. Why is it that the ONLY people who seem to deserve this national consideration is jewish? Why do, when asking for the same historic consideration, the goyim not count, gunny? Is a 50 year old jewish nation worth the modern trail of tears? If you think so then try asking a palestinian whose existance is overshadowed by zionism and the concern for the apparent uber-humanity of the chosen.

Funny, we only make rationalizations about conquest when we are the ones doing the conquering. I'm not going to make excuses for the historic words of a jewish Cortez. They are what they are and they say what they say and ignoring them for the sake of babying jews is no better than Walk Disney babying Adolph Eichman.

And ILL keep asking the same valid question that Irans president asks: Why should the mid east pay the price for euro racism? Want to blame the real culprit? Great! Give the jews what was once East Germany. Euro's jewish problem has nothing to do with justifying tossing that problem at the pals and ignoring the zionist mistreatment of pals.


All I wanted to comment on was the primary source that is David Ben-gurion's quotes. We can avoid turning this into another front if we stop trying to ignore valid, relevant words from one of the dudes originally pushing for a state of israel. Hell, we might as well let a Brit suggest that the declaration of Independance was just a tiny memo that has no real consequences in hisotry.

I don't have a favorite ethnic group. I look to see who is doing what to whom and why. The Arabs are clearly the barbaric, murderious aggressors. Sorry, but in this argument, nothing gets past waging a genocidal war against noncombatants. It can't be justified.

And we'll just have to disagree on the Nazi thing. It's absurd. You argument does not address intent which draws a CLEAR distinction between the two.

 

[jillian]

I don't have a favorite ethnic group. I look to see who is doing what to whom and why. The Arabs are clearly the barbaric, murderious aggressors. Sorry, but in this argument, nothing gets past waging a genocidal war against noncombatants. It can't be justified.

And we'll just have to disagree on the Nazi thing. It's absurd. You argument does not address intent which draws a CLEAR distinction between the two.

Yeah, well, that's because he believes in self-defense for everyone, unless you happen to be a jew. Then if you don't die, you're a nazi. *shrug*

 

[Shogun]

I don't have a favorite ethnic group. I look to see who is doing what to whom and why. The Arabs are clearly the barbaric, murderious aggressors. Sorry, but in this argument, nothing gets past waging a genocidal war against noncombatants. It can't be justified.

And we'll just have to disagree on the Nazi thing. It's absurd. You argument does not address intent which draws a CLEAR distinction between the two.

Yea, Gunny.. just like those damn savages in North America, eh? No, when a population is shat upon for the sake of another racist nation then no, its not clear who is the murderous aggressors. And, if you want to make waging war against non-combatants your standard for acceptable violence then you are going to have a helluva time making an excuse for collateral damage in every one of our America ventures. Indeed, the boston tea party was what, gunny?

INTENT? whats so different about the INTENT of a jewish nation hellbent on preserving it's JEWISH identity and a german nation hellbent on doing the same with its ARYIAN ethnicity? Do you think Israel is the first nation to haave a RIGHT OF RETURN? What is absurd in the intellectual dishonesty that you people will harbor for the sake of avoiding the Scarlet A. Again, if the shoes were reversed and it was muslims behind the aparthied wall and jewshaving their shacks bulldozed we'd have been pouncing at the drop of a fucking hat. And, CLEARLY, there are favorites. I've been posting evidence for the last three weeks, gunny. Care to take a guess at how many replys I get that is more than ad hominesm standard reactions? Take a guess. I'm not making this shit up because of a predisposed hatred of any ethnicity even if it's easier to believe that than hold israel to the same standard as the US.

Intent my ass.

 

[Shogun]

Yeah, well, that's because he believes in self-defense for everyone, unless you happen to be a jew. Then if you don't die, you're a nazi. *shrug*

Is that what I believe? Funny, not a single arguement of mine is predicated upon keeping jews helpless, rather, conveying the exact cause of this enduring conflict. BUT, keep up the profound mental exercises, jill. it's probably NOT examples of chosen racists like you who illustrate my point about avoiding a debate with a Scarlet A.

You see, I'm not interested in making excuses for racism just because it's my team getting to be dominant for once. You really are no better than germans who were forced to look at concentration camps post-ww2 and your lack of debate skills is laughable on this subject.

oops. There I go being all AAANNNTIIIIISEEEMIIITTEEE again for DARING to criticize someone from the newmaster race..



here, is it better when I bow down to you?

 

[Taomon]

And, YOU know this how?

I read. Read the news, not just American, read what the British press is saying. Read the UN reports on Israeli atrocities. Read the press from the Middle East. Listen to speeches from Noam Chomsky, and even read the Wall Street Journal.

There is a great publication called the Congressional Quarterly, which has a lot of insight into such matters.

Read the State Dept reports. Read the Washington Post.

The truth is out there if you just open your eyes.

 

[Taomon]

There's no rewrite or history on my part. You whiney apologists are the ones inconvenienced by the truth.

The fact is, you have no rebuttal other than a personal attack so you wouldn't know whether I was correct or not.

I have a rebuttal: The Sand Creek slaughter. I don't believe any tribe existed that committed such an atrocity.

 

[Taomon]

Actually Jews were NOT allowed to leave. It was not a matter of throwing them out, Germany didn't try that approach at all, they stripped them of rights, money property and then herded them up for slave labor and murder.

Be so kind as to show ANY of that happening in Israel OR in "Palastine" by Israelis.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/UN/sctoc.html

 

[trobinett]

I have a rebuttal: The Sand Creek slaughter. I don't believe any tribe existed that committed such an atrocity.

Sir, I don't know why you keep bringing up these references to Indian uprisings, and Indian genocide, but what purpose are you trying to attach to them?

The ONLY reason the Indian's didn't do to the white man, what the white man did to them, was RESOURES, and opportunity.

Please, try to stay focused..........

 

[Taomon]

Sir, I don't know why you keep bringing up these references to Indian uprisings, and Indian genocide, but what purpose are you trying to attach to them?

The ONLY reason the Indian's didn't do to the white man, what the white man did to them, was RESOURES, and opportunity.

Please, try to stay focused..........

I beg to differ. The Indians welcomed the whites with open arms. The whites stabbed them (collectively) in the back in the name of greed and bigotry.

That is the true history of America. But a few on this board are trying to bully a false history based on the notion that the Indians deserved what they got.

I am not falsefying history. You know what the Sand Creek massacre was. You know that it was not an Indian uprising, it was a reservation of mostly elderly, women and children. All of whom were slaughtered needlessly.

Shame on you.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I read. Read the news, not just American, read what the British press is saying. Read the UN reports on Israeli atrocities. Read the press from the Middle East. Listen to speeches from Noam Chomsky, and even read the Wall Street Journal.

There is a great publication called the Congressional Quarterly, which has a lot of insight into such matters.

Read the State Dept reports. Read the Washington Post.

The truth is out there if you just open your eyes.

UN, ya , you mean the guys that allowed terrorists to set up IN their compounds fire rockets and THEN complained when Israel fired back, those guys?

As for the Press, remember green hat guy? You know the guy that was photographed in about 10 different locations in Lebanon with different titles , a couple with the same ambulance with the same rusty hole in the roof where someone removed the lights and claimed a missile left a tiny little hole with rust there? The Press that doctored smoke to look worse? The press that staged pictures to look worse then was the truth? That press? Or the old lady that must have been a slum lord in Beirut since she was listed in about 5 different pictures as owning 5 different properties all bombed out by supposed Israelis?

 

[Taomon]

UN, ya , you mean the guys that allowed terrorists to set up IN their compounds fire rockets and THEN complained when Israel fired back, those guys?

As for the Press, remember green hat guy? You know the guy that was photographed in about 10 different locations in Lebanon with different titles , a couple with the same ambulance with the same rusty hole in the roof where someone removed the lights and claimed a missile left a tiny little hole with rust there? The Press that doctored smoke to look worse? The press that staged pictures to look worse then was the truth? That press? Or the old lady that must have been a slum lord in Beirut since she was listed in about 5 different pictures as owning 5 different properties all bombed out by supposed Israelis?

So, according to you, the US and Israel are always right and the rest of the world are wrong?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

So, according to you, the US and Israel are always right and the rest of the world are wrong?

NO, but you seem to believe the US and Israel are always wrong and the murdering terrorists and their apologist lap dogs in Europe and here are right.

I will believe Israel or the US over any terrorist ANY day of the week and twice on Sunday ( or Saturday for our Jewish friends).

If Israel wanted the Pals dead, they would be dead. There would be no Pal Authority and no Pals living in it if Israel did not want them there. If Israel were the genocidal maniac you and others claim there would be no pals to whine about.

Israel has a right to exist, if Canada had terrorists living there shelling and rocketing our cities and sending in suicide bombers, ya think we would just do nothing?

 

[eots]

I dont celebrate thanksgiving ...just because ,but I celebrate new years . I got a bottle of vodka and a big chunk of hash and im going to get stoned and drunk as f..k ,,with my girl, family and freinds and it dont get no better than that...HAPPY NEW YEAR YA ALL

 

[pegwinn]

No, but there are scars that run deep. Maybe not for you because you identify with your white heritage more than your Cherokee heritage. Maybe you do not have relatives who you can talk to about this, I did for a while. They are dead now. But their hearts changed mine. And I am not alone.

I don't identify with any race. I identify with what I do, have done, or will do. I don't cry over spilt milk if I can use the cup for something else.

They were given land that is not fertile enough for crops. They were given land with no buffalo. They were given land that once any resources such as gold or uranium was found, would be encroached on by industrialists and lobbyists.

They were not enslaved or killed outright.

A lot of Indians live in abject poverty. Have you ever been to Montana? Kind of hard to find a job on the res. Try walking to a good paying job. Not to mention the bigotry that still exists. It is easy to hide behind the old argument that one must rise above the poverty that one is subject to, unless you happen to be that one.That has been changing too. In fact, many tribes do not get that money anymore. the BIA has been disassembled. And bigotry still exists in many parts of the country.

So, advocating that one be responsible for himself instead of adopting a victim mentality is "hiding"? Please. I have not insulted your intelligence. Don't return a favor not given. Bigotry exists in many forms. Those that screech loudest about it are often as bad as those they decry.

Blacks, Chinese and Japanese were not subject to brutal genocide. Their plights were horrible for sure, but theirs was not a slaughter on the scale of the Native American Indians. Sorry, they do not deserve the stipend as much as the Natives do.

Yeah living your life as property is so much better. On the subject of Genocide..... what are the stats? What percentage of the population was killed.

Once again, many Indians live in abject poverty. Third world conditions. It is easy to judge from your home in the burbs, but until you walk a mile in their shoes, you cannot judge them.

Of course I can judge. Just as you can. Read your own statements about Israel etc. IF you are poor, it is up to you to pull yourself out of it. AS I said, there are no Indians alive to my knowledge that were personally wronged. You have had the "woe is me" story spoon fed to you long enough that you are identifying with something that no longer exists.

But: Are you sending a check to Israel?[

Why would I do that? The Israeli government is corrupt and treating the Palestinians exactly like the US did to the Native American Indians.

You could say that Palestinians are my brothers.

[/B][/COLOR][/QUOTE] Hmmm, judgemental and failing to atone for the atrocities committed by the Germans (your blood if you recall) on the Jews.

It is only racism when you despise another race and make disparaging remarks. You can disagree and not support the INdians. That does not make you a racist.

Some of yours and gunnys remarks are borderline racist though.

Now you have gone and done it. I am attempting to have a discussion and you want to get insulting...... So. Put up or shut up.

So, according to you, the US and Israel are always right and the rest of the world are wrong?

Not at all. I merely state that if I didn't do it, don't expect me to "atone" for it. Best advice is still, "get out of the house and make something of yourself".

 

[William Joyce]

the newmaster race.

Me likey!

 

[Taomon]

NO, but you seem to believe the US and Israel are always wrong and the murdering terrorists and their apologist lap dogs in Europe and here are right.

I will believe Israel or the US over any terrorist ANY day of the week and twice on Sunday ( or Saturday for our Jewish friends).

If Israel wanted the Pals dead, they would be dead. There would be no Pal Authority and no Pals living in it if Israel did not want them there. If Israel were the genocidal maniac you and others claim there would be no pals to whine about.

Israel has a right to exist, if Canada had terrorists living there shelling and rocketing our cities and sending in suicide bombers, ya think we would just do nothing?

Here is what is wrong with your logic...there are terrorists on both sides. America & Israel are terrorist states. Palestinians, Lebanese and Arab individuals may band together or work separately, but they are a product of the conditions created by the US/Israeli actions.

Israel has a right to exist, but they do not have the right to subjugate the Palestinian people who have lived in that area as long as any Jew. Plus, because they created a state on land that was populated by indigenous people (Palestinians) they pretty much created a refugee situation and under International law, are bound to pay reparations, totaling into the billions, to those people.

The Palestinians have rights too and Israel refuses to acknowledge that. Lebanon has been invaded by Israel several times. Are they not allowed to defend themselves?

Israel is annexing areas that are inhabited by Palestinians. Basically it is the areas that have access to water. This is forcing the Palestinians to leave or be subject to military brutality. How do you justify this? How can you state that Israel is innocent and the Palestinians are all terrorists?

 

[Taomon]

They were not enslaved or killed outright.

Yes, they were killed out right. Do you truly believe that every Native American Indian killed by a white person deserved their fate? And the reservation was an economic slavery.

So, advocating that one be responsible for himself instead of adopting a victim mentality is "hiding"? Please. I have not insulted your intelligence. Don't return a favor not given. Bigotry exists in many forms. Those that screech loudest about it are often as bad as those they decry.

No. I believe in people being responsible for themselves to an extent. You want to just say, "rise above your situation" and then cease caring about that person.

That is a person(s) you are talking about. Where is your compassion? Do you only care about people who can rise above conditions set by a powerful government and generations of poverty?

Give people a hand if necessary. Sometimes that is in the form of social programs that help with housing. It should always include education. Education is key to elevating any person.

Yeah living your life as property is so much better. On the subject of Genocide..... what are the stats? What percentage of the population was killed.

There are no specific stats. Indians did not keep records like that until they were forced onto a reservation, and by then, most were slaughtered.

[/B][/COLOR]

Hmmm, judgemental and failing to atone for the atrocities committed by the Germans (your blood if you recall) on the Jews.[/QUOTE] I think Israel has gotten enough support and money from the US - tenfold. Now let's work on the Indians, blacks and all poor & middle classes. We need a paradigm change here.

Not at all. I merely state that if I didn't do it, don't expect me to "atone" for it. Best advice is still, "get out of the house and make something of yourself".

Uh, I have a job and go to school nights. I have a family who I support. I am not the one who needs these changes, I am speaking for those who do.

Hypothetical situation; The changes I propose are ushered in by Congress and a budget is set up to provide housing, education and such to Native American Indians. I won't profit from that. I have a home. I have a job. I am working on elevating myself intellectually.

This isn't about me. This is about my heritage and the people who need atonement.