I can't believe they let this happen!

Immanuel

Gold Member
May 15, 2007
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Police and firefighters stood on a California beach and watched as a suicidal man waded into the San Francisco Bay and drowned in the surf.

The body of Raymond Zack was finally pulled from the 54-degree water by a passerby as local fire officials blamed budget cuts for their inability to save the man.

An Alameda police spokesman said officers stayed out of the water because Zack was suicidal and posed a possible threat.

"We did not know whether he was violent, whether drugs were involved," said police Lt. Sean Lynch. "It's not a situation of a typical rescue."

Eyewitness Sharon Brunetti told the San Jose Mercury News that she couldn't believe the first responders at the beach stood and watched the man drown.

They let this man drown because of budget cuts and departmental policy?

Surely, one of those men standing there on the beach should have said, "screw the policy, I am not going to stand here and watch that man drown." And there were witnesses as well, why the hell didn't a civilian go in and pull him out?

And the water was too shallow for the Coast Guard 41 footer (I was stationed on YBI) the base that would have been called out for this. I can't believe that they could not get someone on shore and in the water in an hour to save that man.

I don't blame the first responders, but I wonder what they were thinking. Surely they had enough training to do something more than just watch this man die! I can't help but worry that this may haunt them for the rest of their lives.

Immie
 
I have no issue with it. The guy wanted to kill himself so he wasn't disappointed. Why should any of those first responders risk one or more of their lives to save that jackhole? He got what he deserved.
 
I have no issue with it. The guy wanted to kill himself so he wasn't disappointed. Why should any of those first responders risk one or more of their lives to save that jackhole? He got what he deserved.

Did he really want to kill himself?

I read that he kept looking back at them. It read almost like he was pleading for them to come save his butt. I have also read that most people who commit suicide or let people think they are trying to do so are actually seeking help/sympathy rather than trying to kill themselves. Maybe he was mentally ill and needed them to save him?

Immie
 
I suspect it was more about union rules than budget cuts.:eusa_whistle:

There have been no federal cuts yet, that would have affected this. The story doesn't say if it was municipal, state or federal cuts which were blamed. Just that cuts get the blame.

This is the kind of nonsense pablum that really muddies the waters in the fiscal debate. Surely there were plenty of other things Alameda county or the city could have cut from their budget before cutting basic water rescue training? And if not, these people so trained are certified annually. Are they saying no one's certified, so there's been no training for over a year? That wouldn't be due to any federal budget cuts.

Lots of questions needed to be asked which weren't. The lapdog press just runs to their keyboards with "Oooooh, evil republican budget cuts caused a DEATH!!!!"
 
I suspect it was more about union rules than budget cuts.:eusa_whistle:

There have been no federal cuts yet, that would have affected this. The story doesn't say if it was municipal, state or federal cuts which were blamed. Just that cuts get the blame.

This is the kind of nonsense pablum that really muddies the waters in the fiscal debate. Surely there were plenty of other things Alameda county or the city could have cut from their budget before cutting basic water rescue training? And if not, these people so trained are certified annually. Are they saying no one's certified, so there's been no training for over a year? That wouldn't be due to any federal budget cuts.

Lots of questions needed to be asked which weren't. The lapdog press just runs to their keyboards with "Oooooh, evil republican budget cuts caused a DEATH!!!!"

I have read two different stories about this. One of them indicated that it was the departmental budgets that had been cut which would have meant it was county or state not federal cuts. With all the talk of cutting teachers pay, it is not hard to believe that first responders have also been affected.

I am not sure where you are getting this:

The lapdog press just runs to their keyboards with "Oooooh, evil republican budget cuts caused a DEATH!!!!"

I didn't say that and I don't think the article said that either. I wasn't even thinking federal cuts. I was thinking state and county. Nor was I thinking, evil politicians caused this. I was more thinking, how could anyone allow this to happen? Even if those first responders were not trained for water rescue, I am 99% certain, they could have devised a life saving plan of action to cover the situation.

Immie
 
Last edited:
I suspect it was more about union rules than budget cuts.:eusa_whistle:

There have been no federal cuts yet, that would have affected this. The story doesn't say if it was municipal, state or federal cuts which were blamed. Just that cuts get the blame.

This is the kind of nonsense pablum that really muddies the waters in the fiscal debate. Surely there were plenty of other things Alameda county or the city could have cut from their budget before cutting basic water rescue training? And if not, these people so trained are certified annually. Are they saying no one's certified, so there's been no training for over a year? That wouldn't be due to any federal budget cuts.

Lots of questions needed to be asked which weren't. The lapdog press just runs to their keyboards with "Oooooh, evil republican budget cuts caused a DEATH!!!!"

I have read two different stories about this. One of them indicated that it was the departmental budgets that had been cut which would have meant it was county or state not federal cuts. With all the talk of cutting teachers pay, it is not hard to believe that first responders have also been affected.

I am not sure where you are getting this:

The lapdog press just runs to their keyboards with "Oooooh, evil republican budget cuts caused a DEATH!!!!"
I didn't say that and I don't think the article said that either. I wasn't even thinking federal cuts. I was thinking state and county.

Immie
And, no one was addressing you either. I was addressing the lapdog press.

ABC carried this story tonight on the evening news, and DID say republican budget cuts caused this. They mixed this in with a story about the federal budget battle. No one's even asked the officials exactly WHAT budget cuts they were blaming this on.

TALK of cutting teacher's pay is just that, talk. It hasn't happened yet. And it's not a valid comparison anyway.
 
From the article:
Fire officials said the department's water rescue program disappeared with its funding in 2009. And an overtime cutback prevented firefighters from logging sufficient training hours for water rescues.
But, no one asked what funds were cut, or by whom.
 
I suspect it was more about union rules than budget cuts.:eusa_whistle:

There have been no federal cuts yet, that would have affected this. The story doesn't say if it was municipal, state or federal cuts which were blamed. Just that cuts get the blame.

This is the kind of nonsense pablum that really muddies the waters in the fiscal debate. Surely there were plenty of other things Alameda county or the city could have cut from their budget before cutting basic water rescue training? And if not, these people so trained are certified annually. Are they saying no one's certified, so there's been no training for over a year? That wouldn't be due to any federal budget cuts.

Lots of questions needed to be asked which weren't. The lapdog press just runs to their keyboards with "Oooooh, evil republican budget cuts caused a DEATH!!!!"

I have read two different stories about this. One of them indicated that it was the departmental budgets that had been cut which would have meant it was county or state not federal cuts. With all the talk of cutting teachers pay, it is not hard to believe that first responders have also been affected.

I am not sure where you are getting this:

The lapdog press just runs to their keyboards with "Oooooh, evil republican budget cuts caused a DEATH!!!!"
I didn't say that and I don't think the article said that either. I wasn't even thinking federal cuts. I was thinking state and county.

Immie
And, no one was addressing you either. I was addressing the lapdog press.

ABC carried this story tonight on the evening news, and DID say republican budget cuts caused this. They mixed this in with a story about the federal budget battle. No one's even asked the officials exactly WHAT budget cuts they were blaming this on.

TALK of cutting teacher's pay is just that, talk. It hasn't happened yet. And it's not a valid comparison anyway.

Thanks for the info on the ABC News. I hadn't seen it.

Immie
 
There was a day when we had a jumper on the bay bridge. I was of the opinion...let him jump he is holding up the commute.

 
I have no issue with it. The guy wanted to kill himself so he wasn't disappointed. Why should any of those first responders risk one or more of their lives to save that jackhole? He got what he deserved.

Did he really want to kill himself?

I read that he kept looking back at them. It read almost like he was pleading for them to come save his butt. I have also read that most people who commit suicide or let people think they are trying to do so are actually seeking help/sympathy rather than trying to kill themselves. Maybe he was mentally ill and needed them to save him?

Immie

Did he or didn't he he was a legal adult and this is personal responsibility. One can live or die by ones actions and should not expect a nanny state to pull them out.

man wants to kill himself he can do that as far as I am concerned.
 
The budget cuts involved water rescue training. This does not mean they do not have the budget to actually attempt a water rescue, they just do not have the training. My guess is that they would have ignored the budget cuts if there had been a child in the water, so them blaming budget cuts is just an attempt to politicize their decision not to attempt a rescue and to deflect the blame onto someone else.

Who is gong to be the first to neg me for this?
 
The articles self explanatory..but you'd think savings lives is their main Job..Yup.. California the compassionate State...

----------------------:evil:

Police and firemen in Alameda, California watched a man drown on Monday after realizing they did not have proper certifications for water rescue, leaving them open to possible lawsuits if they attempted to save him.

The drowning victim, 53-year-old Raymond Zack, was apparently suicidal, according to a report from the scene. He waded out about 150 yards into cold waters off Crown Beach in Alameda and took about an hour to drown himself.

A crowd of about 75 gathered to watch the bizarre scene, which saw police and firemen just standing at shoreline watching helplessly. After the man had drowned, authorities couldn’t even go into the surf to retrieve the body. They instead recruited a passer-by for the job.

City officials reportedly blamed the incident on budget cuts and said they would have a discussion about why Alameda, an island city, does not have proper authorization to rescue people from the waters surrounding it.

Budget cuts force Calif. police and firemen to watch man drown*|*Raw Replay

Threads Merged. -EZ
 
I have no issue with it. The guy wanted to kill himself so he wasn't disappointed. Why should any of those first responders risk one or more of their lives to save that jackhole? He got what he deserved.

Sounds coldhearted but I thought the same thing. These idiots want to kill themselves go on ahead.
 
I think we will see more and more of things like this as cities across the country are forced to cut budgets and do away with training. You can't hire people and not train them and then expect them to risk their lives.
 
Stuff like this happens in 3rd world countries. Whaddya' expect in the Late-great United States. More to come.....alot more.
 

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