i can see this turning ugly

[AllieBaba]

I'm still waiting for evidence you have to adhere to certain beliefs about homosexuality in order to obtain your degree.

BTW, the authors of the human genome project also maintain that homosexuality is a choice.

 

[eagleseven]

You mean like queers sue organizations like the BSA and cock suckers want to openly serve in the military? Sorta like that?

Fundamentalist Christians are behaving like Gay Activists, yes.

 

[chanel]

Complete bullshit. High school counselors help kids schedule their classes and apply for college. Rarely, if ever, are they confronted with sexual issues. Those would be referred to the school nurse. Bullying issues are handled by the administration. Even if she believes that homosexuality is a "choice" I see no reason why she wouldn't help them get into college. Why do people think gay kids are any different than straight ones? They are just kids for crying out loud. Was this girl a teacher? Did her beliefs prevent her from teaching? Sheez. Stop treating gays like they are mental patients and need "special handling"

 

[blu]

I'm still waiting for evidence you have to adhere to certain beliefs about homosexuality in order to obtain your degree.

BTW, the authors of the human genome project also maintain that homosexuality is a choice.

1) nice appeal to authority fallacy

2) you can read this for starters:

ACA In The News

hint:

Any professional who engages in conversion therapy is not offering the professional standard of care and would need to include that he or she is offering it not as a professional counselor but is providing counseling within the scope of practice of some other profession (i.e., Christian counselor).

 

[eagleseven]

BTW, the authors of the human genome project also maintain that homosexuality is a choice.

Does his job involve working with suicidal homosexuals?

 

[Againsheila]

And what of the GLBT students this woman may someday encounter? Where's our compassion for them? If she is unable to deal with people with dignity, respect and knowledge, she cannot be a public school counselor.

I don't see the problem.

They don't like her, they can go to another counselor. What happened to freedom of religion?

 

[eagleseven]

Complete bullshit. High school counselors help kids schedule their classes and apply for college.

This is not that sort of counseling.

Stop treating gays like they are mental patients and need "special handling"

It is imperative to keep young homosexuals away from anti-gay camps and those who would try to "convert" them to heterosexuality, as irreparable mental harm can be done.

 

[Immanuel]

Kindly link where it's a requirement of any degree to BELIEVE in any particular science. Or where you can have a degree denied to you based on your religion.

You cannot graduate as a Cell and Developmental Biology major without passing Evolutionary Biology courses. If you argue against evolution on religious grounds on your exams, you will not pass.

http://web.mit.edu/afs/athena.mit.edu/org/b/biology/www/undergrad/pdfs/biotracks_2009-10.pdf

Standard operating procedure, mamn.

Everyone knows that to pass certain exams you have to play the games of the instructors. That is not the same as "re-education camps" which is what this school is insisting on.

One need not "believe" in Evolutionary Biology in order to know it well enough to pass tests on the subject. However, I think Psychology and Biology are two completely different areas of study. Biology deals more with facts while Psychology deals with ways of thinking.

Writing a paper on the common ancestry of apes and humans can be done even if one does not believe in such common ancestry. However, can one be expected to write on Homosexual issues taking the pro side of the issue when one does not believe it. Actually, I think one can write such a paper, but the real question is, should one be required to change one's point of view under the threat of repercussions? No, I don't think one should be forced to change one's point of view in this matter. The university has taught the courses as it deems fit. She has passed the tests. She should be allowed to graduate.

As a Christian myself, I do not believe that I can forcibly convert anyone. I do not believe that I can torture you into confessing Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior. It does not work that way. In the same manner, I do not believe this school can forcible change her point of view.

She's 24. She's young. She seems to be intelligent. Let her get out into the real world and see what life is really like. I suspect with her intelligence she will come to see that life is not all black and white.

Immie

Immie

 

[blu]

And what of the GLBT students this woman may someday encounter? Where's our compassion for them? If she is unable to deal with people with dignity, respect and knowledge, she cannot be a public school counselor.

I don't see the problem.

They don't like her, they can go to another counselor. What happened to freedom of religion?

again, its not religion, any person whether, christian, muslim, or atheist with her beliefs would not be allowed to graduate

 

[Immanuel]

If a counseling program does not want its students expressing ideas that the program considers harmful to those being counseled, than the institution is within their rights to expel her.

In other words, if in order to graduate from this program, one needs to demonstrate an ability to counsel homosexuals, and she cannot demonstrate this ability (as is clear through her statements), then she cannot graduate.

No Young-Earther will ever be allowed to graduate from an accredited Evolutionary Biology program, as it should be.


Bingo. A degree is not a right, but rather a credential. If you cannot fulfill all the requirements of the credential, you do not deserve the credential.

Then since they want to impose their unwarranted beliefs on what a school counselor should believe, they should refund every dime she has had to pay including tuition, book and student fees to her and let her continue her education at a school that does not impose its irreligious and liberal point of view on students.

Immie

the student knew it was a secular school and that christian schools exist with counseling programs. why would she set her self up for failure ?

Because she had no idea that a liberal secular school could be so intolerant.

Immie

 

[Ravi]

except that fixing the gay as you imply is against the code of conduct

Is it? Is it a requirement of the program that you accept homosexuality?

It's a requirement of the American Counseling Association's Code of Ethics.

So, sort of.

Okay...do you get the blessing (in the form of a certificate or something) of the board that enforces the code merely by graduating or must you do something else?

 

[eagleseven]

Because she had no idea that a liberal secular school could be so intolerant.

Then she should ask for a refund from her undergraduate institution, because they failed to teach her critical thinking skills.

 

[Immanuel]

You can't be FAILED in those classes based on your opinion of whether or not the science is true, if you pass the classes.

Do people really believe that teachers have a right to tell you what you can say outside of the classroom?

outside the classroom in general, no

while performing your profession, then yes the governing body and code of ethics/conduct limit what you can do

The school does not set the code of ethics. The state does. It is not up to the school to decide if she is ethical or not.

Immie

 

[chanel]

Has she given any indication that she can't treat them with respect even if she disapproves of their lifestyle? I am a public school teacher. I teach criminals and kids who smell. Just because I don't approve of their choices outside of school, doesn't mean I can't treat them with respect.

This bias of this school is that gay kids need special handling. That is no less prejudiced than her own beliefs. Gay kids don't run into the counselors office talking about butt sex. Straight kids don't either. They are just kids!

Enough already.

 

[eagleseven]

The school does not set the code of ethics. The state does. It is not up to the school to decide if she is ethical or not.

It is...they would expel her if they caught her plagiarizing, for example.

 

[ConHog]

Then since they want to impose their unwarranted beliefs on what a school counselor should believe, they should refund every dime she has had to pay including tuition, book and student fees to her and let her continue her education at a school that does not impose its irreligious and liberal point of view on students.

Immie

the student knew it was a secular school and that christian schools exist with counseling programs. why would she set her self up for failure ?

Because she had no idea that a liberal secular school could be so intolerant.

Immie

Or because she thought freedom of religion applied to Christians to. The stupid bitch.

 

[Charles_Main]

Splatter, you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

You cannot prevent someone from getting a degree BASED ON THEIR RELIGION. There are lots of fucking counselors who are Christians.

And ps. There is no science involved in that degree.

Its not about her religion, its about the refusal to accept the facts.

She needs to know just like you can not get a degree in Anthropology if you insist the world was made in 7 days , you can not have a couseling degree if you are going to insist being gay is a crime. Its against the sceince of the field.

Um I was going to stay out of this but, WTF are you talking about. Against the Science of the Field? How, what science? There is science that proves beyond a shadow of any doubt that Being gay is not an offense to any god eh. Man those scientist are getting good.

Who ever said there is no science to this field, was dead on. It is all opinion and speculation. The only real science pertains to understanding behavioral Patterns, not whether or not it is cool with god to be gay.

I have not even read into this that much. I assume this woman is somehow making it known that not only does she believe in core Christian Ideas, but that she is unable or unwilling to put them aside when offering advice to people? Or are they actually basing this solely on that fact she is a christian?

 

[Immanuel]

"She has stated that she believes sexual behavior is the result of accountable personal choice rather than an inevitability deriving from deterministic forces. She also has affirmed binary male-female gender, with one or the other being fixed in each person at their creation, and not a social construct or individual choice subject to alteration by the person so created. Further, she has expressed her view that homosexuality is a 'lifestyle,' not a 'state of being.'"

If a counseling program does not want its students expressing ideas that the program considers harmful to those being counseled, than the institution is within their rights to expel her.

In other words, if in order to graduate from this program, one needs to demonstrate an ability to counsel homosexuals, and she cannot demonstrate this ability (as is clear through her statements), then she cannot graduate.

No Young-Earther will ever be allowed to graduate from an accredited Evolutionary Biology program, as it should be.

Agreed. But here is the problem i have with all of this. If you pass the curriculum, regardless of beliefs, what shouldn't you graduate?

Regardless of her beliefs that does not mean she can not demonstrate the ability to counsel homosexuals. I would assume that she would just choose not to counsel them.

I would assume that she would just choose not to counsel them.

That would be fine if she were in private practice, but if she wants to become a school counselor, which I think the article indicated was her career goal, that no longer becomes an option. She will need to be a counselor not a religious adviser in those cases.

Immie

 

[ConHog]

Has she given any indication that she can't treat them with respect even if she disapproves of their lifestyle? I am a public school teacher. I teach criminals and kids who smell. Just because I don't approve of their choices outside of school, doesn't mean I can't treat them with respect.

This bias of this school is that gay kids need special handling. That is no less prejudiced than her own beliefs. Gay kids don't run into the counselors office talking about butt sex. Straight kids don't either. They are just kids!

Enough already.

Spinning your wheels. Once again we have a story of no one caring about kids except as weapons to push their own agendas.

 

[Immanuel]

Then since they want to impose their unwarranted beliefs on what a school counselor should believe, they should refund every dime she has had to pay including tuition, book and student fees to her and let her continue her education at a school that does not impose its irreligious and liberal point of view on students.

Immie

She understood the requirements of graduation before she signed up, and clearly understood that her beliefs contradicted the goals of her profession through arguments with the professors. She signed contracts where she understood the very strict circumstances in which she could obtain a refund, circumstances which have long since passed.

You will have to prove that. I do not agree.

I didn't "know" what beliefs I was expected to have when I graduated at the time I enrolled at my school. I highly doubt she did either.

Immie