i bet those iraqis sure are happy to be free

Classic liberal tactic: When you lose, change subjects.

Besides, compare the casualties and time of fighting to any other U.S. war. More French people died during the American Revolution helping to free us. If your'e gonna free people, soldiers have to die. These are VOLUNTARY soldiers. They know what they got into and they believe in the cause. Support what they do or quit lying and admit you hate this country and everything it stands for. I name you enemy.

You can't root for the home team then say they shouldn't play because some of them get hurt.
 
Comrade said:
Hey Zhuk, are you a Russian Studies major? Govarite pa-Russkie?

Nyet, no ya izuchal ruskie istoria v ooniversitete.

Da, ya gavaru pa-ruskie.

spillmind said:
read those links, will ya?

That first link quotes a book by William Blum. Mr. Blum left the State Dept. in '67 because of Vietnam. Then he publically released the names and addresses of over 200 CIA employees. It would seem he has a bone to pick, and he's described us quite anti-American, and some might say pro-Soviet. Though his book is evidently well documented, the evidence concerning this matter is purely anecdotal. Further, the quote in the article doesn't contend the CIA installed the Ba'ath party. The only contention is that the CIA tried, and failed, to assasinate Kassem.
 
spillmind said:
you're so full of crap it must be coming out of your ears.

Hey M*****F***ER, I just posted several pages of linked and quoted facts and this is all you have to say to me?

I'm just astounded you are still unbanned, this is just about the most insulting and immature behavior I've seen on this board yet.
 
Comrade said:
Hey M*****F***ER, I just posted several pages of linked and quoted facts and this is all you have to say to me?

I'm just astounded you are still unbanned, this is just about the most insulting and immature behavior I've seen on this board yet.


dude, did you miss your valium dose? i'll get to this a bit later. apoloigies if i don't follow you around on every single thread. :beer:
 
There will be no democracy for the Iraqi people, there will sadly be more terrorism as a result on the war on terror, just like the war on drugs, you only get more terrorism and more drugs when there is a "war" waged on it...

Sure, the iraqis are free when their new leader, Alawi, he helped the CIA carry out terrorist attacks in Iraq in the 90's, these attacks killed innocent civilians! and now he is their puppet leader! Oh, yeah we are winning the battle on terrorism!

Oh, and the opium output from afganistan has skyrocketed since they were invaded, more drugs!

The new president of afganistan is an employee of an oil company(cant remember the name) that works with guess who, halliburton.

http://www.wilmingtonstar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040609/ZNYT/406090423/1004/LOCAL

Sure, the iraqis are free when they are imprisoned in abu graib and tortured, most of them innocent... These horrible acts were ordered by our friend Rumsfeld, who lead the investigation into the scandal! oh how very convinient... Oh, and Rummy also was part of a company that sold nuclear arms to NC in 2000. The very people involved in creating the problem are involved in creating the solution, now NC is part of the AXIS OF EVIL.

In the 1980s, the US alongwith Saudi Arabia replaced the pro-Soviet regime in Afghanistan, and put in a system of Taliban rule.

These people broke of and were called the Mujahedeen, these people then later became alqueda, and.... by the way we now granted protection to the mujahadeen.. Why would we do such a thing? well, you can let your imagination go with that one.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200407/s1163249.htm

Also there was an interesting article today about an american who was supposedly hot on the trail of bin laden, BUT, when he told authorities of bin ladens whereabouts it took a whole 5 days for them to get to the location, and said that he had indeed been there. Now, this american faces up to 20 years in jail because of supposedly tourturing prisoners in a private jail.

Tell me, if your gov. truly wanted to get osama, dont you think they would want to use this american to help find him? instead of putting him in jail? dont you think that they would have acted much quicker instead of waiting 5 days? you be the judge..

http://dailynews.att.net/cgi-bin/news?e=pri&dt=040821&cat=news&st=newsd84jr3t00&src=ap

I know that there are some opened minded people here, and the majority of you all are probably good, well intended people. YOU have to make the choice to follow the path of TRUTH, JUSTICE and PEACE. The media has not provided good information to the general public, and most are uninformed, and dont know the WHOLE story. The ruling elite want you to be constantly afraid, they want you to respond with hatred when told of an attack, they want you to be blinded by your rage. The good American people are being led like lemmings off of the cliff, into slavery. Replace the anger that now resides in your heart with love, and peace. No, this is not an easy thing to do during these times, but it is possible.

Last post for me here, have fun "ripping it to shreds" :p:
 
MJDuncan1982 said:
Great point with Sudan. For those who champion the moral argument for the war in Iraq it seems they must be for going into Sudan and helping out there. Minus the moral argument you're left with the two real reasons: WMD and terrorism - both are questionable enough to necessitate not rushing to war.

And don't forget the lack of oil. The reason we are not going into Sudan is because it is not important to our strategic oil interests in the long run, and there is no big $ to be made by friends of the Adminstration on Sudanese oil.

Just look at Malaysia, where over 200,000 were killed and the US continued to support businesses such as Nike running plants in that nation. Sudan, Malaysia, the Philapines under Marcos, Chile, El Salvador, the list goes on... all places where the US did not get involved and allowed US business to exploit the situation. Only where our interests are served do we sustain any "moral" imperatives.

Just look at the slaughter going on in Africa and you can see this is true. If the moral argumen were legitimate, we'd be in there stopping it.

Wade.
 
wade said:
And don't forget the lack of oil. The reason we are not going into Sudan is because it is not important to our strategic oil interests in the long run, and there is no big $ to be made by friends of the Adminstration on Sudanese oil.

Just look at Malaysia, where over 200,000 were killed and the US continued to support businesses such as Nike running plants in that nation. Sudan, Malaysia, the Philapines under Marcos, Chile, El Salvador, the list goes on... all places where the US did not get involved and allowed US business to exploit the situation. Only where our interests are served do we sustain any "moral" imperatives.

Just look at the slaughter going on in Africa and you can see this is true. If the moral argumen were legitimate, we'd be in there stopping it.

Wade.

What are you saying about Malaysia? There were riots in Malaysia during the late 60's, but those were religious riots perpetuated by the Muslims against the Chinese and the Indian populations of that country. Please explain. I am VERY familiar with Malaysia and have spent a LOT of time there. I have NO IDEA what you are talking about.

And BTW: There is a LOT of oil in Sudan. Again, not sure where you get your info. From the Fruit Loops cereal box?
 
I am confused. Why is it bad to have strategic interests in oil? Why is it bad to want capitalism to succeed?

Sorry, I refuse to feel guilty because third world countries would rather fight amongst themselves than try to improve the infrastructure of their own nations.
 
CSM said:
I am confused. Why is it bad to have strategic interests in oil? Why is it bad to want capitalism to succeed?

It's not-- it's bad to have strategic oil interests and not be honest about them
 
nakedemperor said:
It's not-- it's bad to have strategic oil interests and not be honest about them

Frankly, I think we have been pretty honest about it. Just about EVERYBODY I know will admit that oil is VERY important to this country and therefore, the free flow of oil is also very important.

Even Bush 41 made it clear that oil was the major driving force behind the Persian Gulf War. I guess you don't want to hear that stuff so that you can turn around and say that we aren't being honest about it.

I am no fool. We need oil and therefore, we need a stable, terrorist free ME. Too bad you are too ignorant or too partisan to see that.
 
AHHHH, I see. You mean like France, Germany and many other European countries who have a far larger dependency on Middle Eastern oil than the US does and then pretends to have only altruistic interests in the Middle East? Not to mention Japan, China and assorted other Far Eastern countries who are the primary cause for the increased demand in oil production (China in particular) then accuse the US of making war for oil?

Thanks, I am no longer confused.
 
Comrade said:
Any site with “truth” in the URL is always some lefty whacko.

I can think of a right-wing group with "truth" in their group name right now - and yes they are a bunch of wacko's. Liar's too it seems!

Comrade said:
I love this shit. Long story short is this guy walks into the bar and there is our guy, this CIA agent Gottlieb behind the CIA-Saddam connection, and he just fucking doses this guy (because all CIA agents overseas carry around LSD, I guess) and the poor subject goes into a two week long trip and finally is rescued by his family in the streets.

Yet nobody trips longer than 16-24 hours. You can actually bathe in a vat of pure LSD and after an intense daylong trip you will emerge sane and in touch with reality. Talk to some chemist if you want, or look it up on the net, but don’t actually try this at home, my friends!

Chomsky is always making up things like a two week trip on acid. It’s an urban legend.

Umm... not quite.

Pure LSD has a psycho-active period ranging from about 6 hours to about 20 hours in 90% of the population. This is largely dose dependant, with minimal effects and duration starting with about a 30-50 micron dose, and maximal effects and duration occuring with a 300-500 micron dose. Increasing the dosage beyond about 500 microns has little or no effect on most people, but it can extend the trip to as much as 72 hours in some individuals (very rare).

However, there are things that can be done to buffer LSD and make for longer trips, but trip intensity tends to be greatly reduced after the first ~16 hours. Other psycho active chemicals, such as psilocyben, can be buffered effectively to sustain trips lasting several days.

But... it should be noted that use of any of the serious hallucinagens can cause a person with previously undiagnosed mental disease to suffer an immeadate and possibly perminent episode. This is especially true with schizophrenia, which often does not manifest until the late 20's or early 30's, and is suprisingly common (statistically significant) amoung artists - especially painters. A person with mental disease might appear to sustain a trip lasting many days, weeks, or even permanent. One of the main effects of LSD is to cause the same symptoms as schizophrenia, namely hallucinations, mostly of an auditory nature, often sounding like "voices". These drugs can also have profound, possibly life altering effect, on people who are free of mental disease.

Also, it should be noted that LSD is often "enhanced" with substances such as strychnine (very common with street LSD), which greatly intensifies the visual experiance. Grinding of teeth is a tip off that the LSD has strychnine in it. It is quite possible that CIA experiments utilized this or other enhancers, which can easily cause perminent damage, especially if included in normal proportions to the LSD, but then having huge does of the mixture given to the subject.

And finally, a person not knowing that they have been given this drug can be in serious trouble. They will think they have gone crazy, are at risk for suicide (likely) or violence (unlikely but possible), and afterwards may question their grip on reality. The CIA and Army tests bear this out, as they generally did not apprise the subject of what was going to happen, and negative results seem to have been common in their "research".

BTW: The "flashback" is a myth. Thousands of college students, pre-screened for mental diseases, were given LSD in the late 60's and early 70's, and not one flashback was reported in over 15 years that they'd been followed up to the time of my studies.

My source - A year of psychopharmachology under two of the formost experts in the field, Dr. George F. Koob and Prof. J. Anthony Deutsch. Koob was involved in legal human LSD research using college studen volunteers (and before you comment - no, this was almost a decade before my studies).

Asside: It was quite fascinating in the lab to watch the mice and rats with an IV going to their heart and a lever that would deliver a measured dose of cocain solution. Most mice/rats would push the lever periodically then sit back and enjoy the dose, and after a few hours, would stop pushing the lever. However, about 15% of the rats would press the lever constantly until their heart exploded. In another experiment, where redosing was delayed about 5 seconds using a lighter dose and food was placed across the cage, the addictive rats would not leave the lever long enough to eat, and starved themselves to death, where the normal rats would take a break and go eat. Koobs inter-bred selected mice/rats to produce "highly addictable" mice and rats now used in addiction research.

It turns out that the same is largely true for humans - about 10-20% are highly addictive types, and will quickly become physically addicted to a variety of drugs if they try them (crack cocain evidently effects quick addiction in a higher %). Almost everyone else will not become (physically) addicted without significant long term abuse.

Wade.
 
wade said:
And don't forget the lack of oil. The reason we are not going into Sudan is because it is not important to our strategic oil interests in the long run, and there is no big $ to be made by friends of the Adminstration on Sudanese oil.

Just look at Malaysia, where over 200,000 were killed and the US continued to support businesses such as Nike running plants in that nation. Sudan, Malaysia, the Philapines under Marcos, Chile, El Salvador, the list goes on... all places where the US did not get involved and allowed US business to exploit the situation. Only where our interests are served do we sustain any "moral" imperatives.

Just look at the slaughter going on in Africa and you can see this is true. If the moral argumen were legitimate, we'd be in there stopping it.

Wade.


Yes complete lack of oil. :rolleyes:

http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/sudan.html

OIL
As of January 2004, Sudan's estimated proven reserves of crude oil stood at 563 million barrels, more than twice the 262 million barrels estimated in 2001. As of June 2004, crude oil production was averaging about 345,000 barrels per day (bbl/d), up from 270,000 bbl/d during 2003. Crude oil production has been rising steadily since the completion of a major export pipeline in July 1999 and is expected by Energy Minister Awad al-Jaz to surpass 500,000 bbl/d by the end of 2005. It is possible that Sudanese production could reach 750,000 bbl/d by the end of 2006 if planned production increases at new and existing fields progress as planned. In August 2001, in recognition of Sudan's growing significance as an oil exporter, OPEC granted the country observer status at OPEC meetings.

Petroleum exploration in Sudan began in the early 1960s. The activity was originally concentrated offshore in the Red Sea. The only significant offshore discovery was Chevron's Suakin gas discovery in 1976. Chevron's exploration in the 1960s and 1970s led to several oil finds in southern Sudan near the towns of Bentiu, Malakal and Muglad. Chevron abandoned its concessions in Sudan in 1985, due to their location in an area where fighting was taking place between government and rebel forces. France's Total also suspended its onshore exploration activities, but retained the rights to its concessions. The Sudanese government sub-divided Chevron's concessions into smaller exploration blocks, and Canadian independent Arakis Energy (Arakis) acquired the portion of Chevron's concession north of the town of Bentiu in 1993.

So whats next? Cow tipping?

Love the little tidbit about france too. No more pumping, but still getting paid without doing a damn thing. Gotta love those lazy ass french.
 
But we are getting that oil, as long as it's flowing, we don't care what else happens. So far, its not threatened.

Wade.
 
Zhukov said:
No it isn't.

Provide one documentable case of an LSD flashback.

With almost 10,000 subjects having been followed for 15 years at the time I took the class, not one had reported a flashback.

And what would be the mechanism for a flashback? LSD is fully metabolized within 24 hours by most people, and by 72 hours for virtually everyone.

Wade.
 
wade said:
Provide one documentable case of an LSD flashback.

I've had one, and so have a few of my friends. Sorry I can't provide a link.

And what would be the mechanism for a flashback?

No idea. I haven't bothered to look into it. The brain is a fascinating and complex organ, one that we are not even remotely close to fully understanding.
 

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