"I am not telling you how to vote, but ... "

[Gunny]

Not everything is worth responding to, so I'll just pick and choose:

Well, you got one right at least. Think I'll check your IP out and see if you post as Larkinn on your off time. Same, bs game of twisted semantics and dishonest, out of contex literalism. You have no argument on merit, so you instead want to play games.

I haven't called your beliefs anything other than what they are. You don't care about fair. You only care about whatever YOUR particular definition of equal is. We, as in human beings, are NOT absolute equals, nor should our pay reflect such.

You most assuredly ARE for an artifical income level if you advocate paying persons qualified to perform menial tasks at a higher rate than what the job sector values that skill at.

Nor did I say you have to work a 12 hour day. You don't have to work at all. Sit home, collect welfare/unemployment and suck off my tax dollars. Others do, you may as well too. My point is if working 12 hours a day is a means to an end you have a choice as to wether or not that end is worth those means.

Maybe the difference is that I have been too busy doing whatever I needed to do to get where I wanted to be to bitch about the way things are, knowing it isn't going to change a thing. But you take a stand on your unrealistic, utopian beliefs. See how much food it puts on your plate.

 

[Foxfyre]

I read the first several pages of the thread and didn't see anything that really dealt with the issue of unionization which is what this is. So boiling it down to that single issue, let's review:

1) Wal-mart is a retailing giant offering an enormous variety of products at affordable prices. Its suppliers and/or the political affiliation/ideology of the owners are not a factor in this particular discussion, at least as laid out in the opening post.

2) Wal-mart has been criticized for the wages and benefits that it offers its employees; however in most areas those wages and benefits are on a part with those paid by similar retailing operations. One of the more unique benefits that Wal-mart offers its employees is the opportunity to buy into ownership of Wal-mart via stock options. Long tenured employees who have taken advantage of that opportunity have generally done quite well for themselves.

3) Wal-mart's marketing strategy and personnel policies have often been criticized for overwhelming lesser businesses, decimating the business districts of small towns, and hastening the demise of small towns. Aesthetically, such criticisms have been justified in some cases; however, Wal-mart invariably grows jobs in every place where it builds and thus any small town that doesn't 'make it' with a Wal-mart present most likely would not have made it anyway.

What would unionization of Wal-mart do?

Immediately wages and benefits would likely increase, but the workers would lose much of the flexibility, merit pay, and some opportunities they now enjoy while those attractive prices Wal-mart currently offers would likely be compromised. The result would most likely be fewer customers, fewer jobs, and decimated stock. None of this would be good news for consumers, workers, or investors.

A Wal-mart locating in a small town would pay wages so out of step with the local economy that the best qualified people would flock to Wal-Mart just for the money and benefits which would absolutely decimate the small businesses in that community that would have otherwise survived Wal-Mart.

It is not inappropriate for management to explain to their employees what unionization would mean for them. You can be sure the union organizers are doing that.

The employees should be armed with all available information before they cast their vote.

(If only we could get the American people to competently arm themselves with all available information before they cast their vote for elected leaders or those dang bond issues that you see on most of the ballots.)

 

[52ndStreet]

Its not just Wal-Mart that will be affected if a Democratic President takes control of the White House; the entire United States economy will be affected with higher Taxes on the Rich, thus causing less growth ,and layoffs, and an overall economic downturn in the
Nations Economy. If we think the Economy is on the skids now,it will be a whole lot worse with Barack Obama in the White House.

 

[editec]

Its not just Wal-Mart that will be affected if a Democratic President takes control of the White House; the entire United States economy will be affected with higher Taxes on the Rich, thus causing less growth ,and layoffs, and an overall economic downturn in the
Nations Economy. If we think the Economy is on the skids now,it will be a whole lot worse with Barack Obama in the White House.

Economics is so not an all or nothing proposition. I do wish people understood that.

If working people make more money they spend more money.

Having a viable workforce with disposable income is what made America's economy so wealthy and vibrant to begin with.

A weathier work force actually makes the rich even richer, even if they do end up paying some of it back in more taxes. The net result is they are even wealthier than if the workforce is empoverished.

Balance, folks, we need balance.

Libertarian economics is a goofy as communist economics, in my opinion.

 

[Prefx]

Chasing shadows. Come back when it's determined I'm this Larkinn fellow.

Edit is spot on. More purchasing power equated to a vibrant economy right up until the '70s.

 

[Foxfyre]

A couple of years ago one of our area cities raised the minimum wage to about double the federal minimum wage. The idea was to create a 'living wage' for everybody and all would prosper and eliminate poverty.

The result as of roughly two years later? Significantly higher costs on everything, all of which had to be ponied up by those former 'poor'. Unbooked hotel rooms, emptier restaurants, more business failures and a large flight of small businesses from the area to more hospitable climes - these businesses taking their jobs with them Currently unemployment is up and rising--and the total number of available jobs significantly lower.

So there you have a graphic illustration from the book of good intentions producing unintended bad consequences.

We need to be careful about what we think we want.

 

[Reality]

If you were running a company that big, you wouldn't buy the cheapest products you could?

I'm all for American made products, but until we start manufacturing products that can compete with China's on the global market, where else do you EXPECT companies to go?

The expectation shouldn't be that siding with Communist sweatshop and slave labor goods is acceptable. I want to sell Cuban sugar then!!! Oh wait, they are bad China is good. Forgot.

Fucking hypocrisy.

 

[Reality]

I heard that "some" Some Muslim workers at Target refuse to handle pork products and will not scan them at the registers - I think I heard that "some" Walmart employees, refuse to also

Next time you see someone wearing a yarmulke, ask how they would feel about the same topic.

 

[Reality]

Here's a clue for you.. If you don't want to deail with "cranky" customers, and have to bag items as well as scan them, and wait on people, then pick another job. MOST people pick these jobs because they figure they can do a minimal amount of actual work for a decent amount of money, and don't bother striving to do any better. That's THEIR fault. USE your education to pursue another career choice. What exactly do you think someone with no education, no social skills, and an ingrained sense of laziness SHOULD be making?

A living equal to what similar people were making 30 40 and 50 years ago when adjusted for inflation.

 

[Reality]

If they cannot perform the job(s) they are hired to do, fire them.

And before any of you lefties get on here talking shit about THAT statement, do reconcile what you are thinking of saying with the wailing and gnashing of teeth y'all went through when some religious fanatic at a pharmacy refused to dispense the pill.

Or you could flip it and say that Christians morality is accepted and Muslims and Jews are not.

 

[Gunny]

Or you could flip it and say that Christians morality is accepted and Muslims and Jews are not.

Or you could take it as I meant it. I don't care what your personal/religious beliefs are. If you are hired to do a job providing a service, I expect you to provide that service. Used to be "with a smile," but that's too much to ask for nowadays.

Muslims shouldn't be applying for jobs at the local bar-b-que and devout right to lifers shouldn't be working behind the counter in pharmacies that dispense RU-84 if they cannot perform the job. The services provided should not have to change to cater to individual religous/moral beliefs.

And this whole argument is stupid and shows how one-sided some of you folks are. When that pharmacist refused to dispense RU-84 based on religious beliefs the left went nuts. Now all of a sudden it's a different story and some Muslim is being persecuted. Wrong.

Either they are both right or they both wrong. I say they're both wrong.

 

[Zoomie1980]

Walmart is run by right wing nuts from Arkansas.

And the stuff they sell is crap.

And mostly bought by lower income people who vote Democrat.... so the worm turns....

 

[Zoomie1980]

The expectation shouldn't be that siding with Communist sweatshop and slave labor goods is acceptable. I want to sell Cuban sugar then!!! Oh wait, they are bad China is good. Forgot.

Fucking hypocrisy.

Too bad, that is the GLOBAL reality. People will NOT sacrifice their standard of living for much of anything, including sweatshop child and slave labor factories. More proof the human species is nowhere NEAR as evolved as most liberals think or wish it was.

It's a fundamental difference between the left and right. The left actually does understand the reality of life in the modern world but feels guilty about it so they think they can force "enlightenment" on people. The right just accepts it, as indigestible as it may be, and simply makes the best of it.

 

[sealybobo]

The expectation shouldn't be that siding with Communist sweatshop and slave labor goods is acceptable. I want to sell Cuban sugar then!!! Oh wait, they are bad China is good. Forgot.

Fucking hypocrisy.

Amen! Global "realists"? Ha! The people that made walmart possible could easily afford to pay a few pennies more for products. They just convinced poor white trash to sell out america for a few pennies. and those people my friends, vote republican. none of them thought it would affect their jobs until it has. same with allowing illegals to work here. they thought they'd be happy with jobs americans won't do.

Why are they "realists". Why did we do ok without buying from china? They scare us by asking us if we want to pay $10 for an apple or toothbrush. I'm not a economist, but wouldn't supply and demand have figured that out? And couldn't they just fiddle with inflation or the interest rates or value of the dollar to work it out?

I don't buy it that outsourcing everything was necessary.

 

[Gunny]

Amen! Global "realists"? Ha! The people that made walmart possible could easily afford to pay a few pennies more for products. They just convinced poor white trash to sell out america for a few pennies. and those people my friends, vote republican. none of them thought it would affect their jobs until it has. same with allowing illegals to work here. they thought they'd be happy with jobs americans won't do.

Why are they "realists". Why did we do ok without buying from china? They scare us by asking us if we want to pay $10 for an apple or toothbrush. I'm not a economist, but wouldn't supply and demand have figured that out? And couldn't they just fiddle with inflation or the interest rates or value of the dollar to work it out?

I don't buy it that outsourcing everything was necessary.

Just when I think you can't possibly get any dumber ....

Poor white trash live off government handouts and vote for the party that hands them out. That would NOT be the GOP.

Do try to wake up and smell the obvious, huh?

 

[steeliniraq]

Walmart is run by right wing nuts from Arkansas.

And the stuff they sell is crap.

Then don't shop there.

 

[steeliniraq]

Here is something I just dont get in our country. We were founded on a capitalistic economy. It is every Americans dream, and what we strive for, to be rich. Now here is a company that is great at what they do. Yet we hate them for being smart, working hard, and making it. I dont really agree that they should be messing with voting. That is wrong and I couldnt agree more with those of you that are making that point. But to those that are calling Walmart evil and all the other things that has been said what is wrong with a bussiness making money?

 

[Jon]

Walmart is run by right wing nuts from Arkansas.

And the stuff they sell is crap.

Being that I eat, breathe, and live in Wal-Mart country (Northwest Arkansas), I can tell you that we're not right wing nuts. We're probably the most moderate area in the country. Clinton would have dominated Arkansas. Don't hate us because we hate your beloved Obama for being a sack of shit.

Secondly, since I attend the WALTON College of Business, I can assure you that Wal-Mart is by far the most intelligent corporation in the world. Their logistics systems puts the rest of the world to shame. Their computer warehouses are second in size only to the Pentagon. And their ability to sell you brand name products at discount prices should be appreciated.

What they sell is crap? Wal-Mart makes their billions off selling the same name brands that everyone else sells, for a lot less. If their products are crap, you're just buying crappy brands. That's not their fault.

 

[Gunny]

Here is something I just dont get in our country. We were founded on a capitalistic economy. It is every Americans dream, and what we strive for, to be rich. Now here is a company that is great at what they do. Yet we hate them for being smart, working hard, and making it. I dont really agree that they should be messing with voting. That is wrong and I couldnt agree more with those of you that are making that point. But to those that are calling Walmart evil and all the other things that has been said what is wrong with a bussiness making money?

It isn't about them making money. It's about HOW they make their money. Sam Walton built that company on selling American-made products almost exclusively. Since his death, WalMart has sold out to China.

I bitched about allowing the Japanese to buy chuncks of our country in the 80s. I'm sick of seeing Arabs and Indians buy us out and I'm going to go with consistency insofar as China is concerned.

Hell, do we even own anything here anymore?

 

[Foxfyre]

It isn't about them making money. It's about HOW they make their money. Sam Walton built that company on selling American-made products almost exclusively. Since his death, WalMart has sold out to China.

I bitched about allowing the Japanese to buy chuncks of our country in the 80s. I'm sick of seeing Arabs and Indians buy us out and I'm going to go with consistency insofar as China is concerned.

Hell, do we even own anything here anymore?

Not much. And why? Its because well-intentioned but short sighted ideologues demand that American employers pay ever higher wages, more benefits, and adhere to increasingly restrictive regulations to the point that we are no longer competitive when it comes to most manufacturing. So, we are trading our manufacturing base increasingly for a service based industry to warehouse, market, service and repair products manufactured elsewhere. Wal-mart doesn't sell more foreign manufactured products than anybody else; they are just big, visible, and are holding the line to provide what they do sell at an attractive price.