I am a libertarian

Discussion in 'Introduce Yourself' started by grbb, Oct 15, 2016.

  1. Indeependent
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    Indeependent Gold Member

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    What does Google's Tax Rate have to do with the size of a particular government?
     
  2. Onyx
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    Onyx Gold Member

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    The definition of anarchism is "no rulers."

    It is commonly conflated by society as meaning no organization or no government.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2016
  3. grbb
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    grbb Senior Member

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    what's the difference between no rulers and no governors?
     
  4. Onyx
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    Onyx Gold Member

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    Rulers exercise control over others using force, whereas government can be defined as any system of organization.

    Another way of putting it, is that anarchism opposes power hierarchies. Or the idea that some men should be able to hold power over other men.
     
  5. grbb
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    grbb Senior Member

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    The problem with that, is that some men will always hold power over other men. What we can do is to minimize that.

    Say there is no US government. Can you, as an individual, challenge China?

    No.

    To challenge Chinese power you got to unite. And in unity there are "deals".

    Okay, we protect you but you pay income tax. That sort of deal.

    Do I like income tax? No. But I can understand that that sort of thing will happen anyway. If it's done small and in ways that do not cause too much market distortion then I can live with that.

    Income tax is getting lower by the way. People can more easily move to low tax countries for example. Their corporations and their capital surely can. To me, that's awesome.
     
  6. Onyx
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    Onyx Gold Member

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    Hundreds of anarchic societies that have existed throughout history. Anarchy is actually the natural order of man.

    Anyways, if your best argument against anarchism is "resistance is futile," you lost the debate.

    You act as though anarchists have never formed an army before.

    [​IMG]

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    It isn't like China is any worse than the United States. Less slick about their wrongdoings, which makes them more of a boogeyman.

    Anarchism is the ultimate unity ideology though.

    [​IMG]

    Which is known as a protection racket. Like the mafia, the government will punish you for not paying into their extortion.
     
  7. grbb
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    grbb Senior Member

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    I sort of agree it's like protection racket. However, governments are better than regular mafia. It has clear laws. It has to compete.

    Yes anarchists can make an army. With nukes? With F-16? You are no match of the might of russian china. You and your US government is more than a match.

    And look at reality. In reality, humans natural state is worse than NAP. Humans natural state is killing each other.

    If uniting and attacking another tribe is profitable, that's what people would do. That's what people have always do. Read the bible. Kill all the males rape the woman. God himself told his chosen people to do so. That's what people normally do.

    The way the current world works, namely that we have hundreds of country competing for investments, job creation, businesses, residency, is the closest we have to libertarian ideals in the whole human history.

    Could this be better? Can we have flying car? Yes. Not yet now.

    Just look at what we can do for ourselves today. That's it
     
  8. Onyx
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    Onyx Gold Member

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    I do not see how the established law somehow makes a state morally superior to a mafia family.

    So what imposition is preventing a powerful anarchist army?

    My favorite theory of study is military theory by the way.

    No, not sure about that.

    Human beings did not even start getting into tribalistic fueds for quite some time. Not to mention the first cities in the world were anarchic.

    That was a result of cognitive development. The division of human beings into tribes is a social construction. Not to mention that tribal conflicts have always been rare and sproadic, usually resulting in low to zero casualties.

    The state does not actually create anything. Everything the state has, it has stolen.

    Businesses, residency, and jobs are not contingent on the existence of the state.

    Foremost, we could improve our lives by rejecting rulers, politics, and all the associated bullshit.
     
  9. grbb
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    grbb Senior Member

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    Morally no. But let's forget about moral. Let's forget about benefits. I think US government have more open and transparent laws that mafia family. Citizens can vote in Mafia. Mafia is more like monarch.

    Is that what you want? Replacing government with a bunch of small Mafia? Because totally free from governments and mafia seems to be impossible. I mean, we don't see that around do we?
    Nothing. I just don't think your rag tag anarchist army stand a chance against powerful state with professional army.
    The state creates a union. That union creates security. Chinese and Russian do not even think of invading US because of united states.

    The state governs and prevent us from killing each other. Well, sort of. I prefer gun ownership where owners can hire private party to defend house. And the state often interfere. So it's grey area here.

    Still, with the way the state govern it's people we see cities where people can live together and don't kill each other at high rate. That improves land value. If the state would tax land I would agree more actually.
    Rejecting? Good idea. How exactly you gonna reject? I mean I did a lot by rejecting rulers. You can incorporate in country A, have bank account in country B, have citizenship in country C, and live in country D. To me, that's the closest thing to libertarianism. As long as no state can have monopoly on your life, you're fine.
     
  10. grbb
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    grbb Senior Member

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    I mean citizens can't vote in Mafia. Well, think of government as "moderate" mafia. More tolerable than regular mafia.
     

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