I actually think

[Full-Auto]

He cut deals with Big Pharma

oh , guess that one does not fit the left's template

So now we will be forced to carry a cronies product.


FOR THE COMMON GOOD!!!

 

[bobgnote]

Obama sadly couldnt lead people out of a paper bag.

Since he's done it, and is doing it, you have your obese lips around corporate ball sacks. So which side of Romney is he planning on trying to lead, not that he has a chance of winning.

When has he done or started doing it?

What about black Obamney shoving white Obamneycare, down all those ho-throats, like it was a big, black tool? Oh, that was us hos? Never mind. What about black Obamney copying Project Gunrunner and Op.Wide Receiver? Busted? Never mind. What about black Obamney and his administration standing their ground, on both Congress and the Bradley Manning defense? Does he have CRS or worse?

White Obamney has the CRS. Can't ask him, about Bullygate, Mormonism, or Bain.

What about black Obamney promising to return Gitmo? Didn't he? What about climate change? Still fracking and piping, eh? Black Obamney sure can bust pot clubs and kill with drones, even better than GW. Is black Obamney Bush league-leading?

Black Obamney sure can get a favorable personal rating. Too bad he isn't leading at job approval. Say. It occurs to me, some of black Obamney's cultists may be left over, from the Clinton Administration, which explains the handle, "Dick Suck," since black Obamney and the Democrats seem to be doing dirt, at OWS, and they infiltrated the Nader 2004 campaign, like they learned from Nixon.

 

[Toro]

Do I think he would be as good as Obama?

Obama is Bush without the wars and executive experience but more confusion and ineptness.

not by a longshot. though i know the right likes saying it.

this president's biggest mistake was in not finding his er... cojones until three years into his presidency.

unlike bush, who was dumb as toast and never thought twice about ramming his agenda down people's throats.... obama actually, until recently, thought the schoolyard bullies would play nice with him if he compromised. i hoped they would, too, fwiw.

If you're a Democrat, you think Obama has reached out to Republicans. If you are a Republican, you think Obama is ramming his agenda down the other side's throat.

If you're a Republican, you think Bush reached out to Democrats. If you are a Democrat, you think Bush rammed his agenda down the other side's throat.

If you're an Independent, you think both parties are playing to their bases, and both are dividing the country by being obstinate and rigid.

 

[Toro]

so please, i'm begging, tell me what's moderate about him? (other than the fact that he has no ideology of his own).

If you say that a guy has no ideology, he is a pragmatist, not an extremist ideologue.

The idea that he is beholden to conservative extremists is pretty odd given that conservatives rotated to just about anyone with a pulse in the primaries other than Romney, and Romney won in spite of them.

 

[Toro]

Obama is Bush without the wars and executive experience but more confusion and ineptness.

not by a longshot. though i know the right likes saying it.

this president's biggest mistake was in not finding his er... cojones until three years into his presidency.

unlike bush, who was dumb as toast and never thought twice about ramming his agenda down people's throats.... obama actually, until recently, thought the schoolyard bullies would play nice with him if he compromised. i hoped they would, too, fwiw.

Thats the biggest load of crap i've heard on this board today.

Obama NEVER tried to compromise. He never even entertained it.

Obamacare was his way or the high way.
He didn't give the Republicans jack squat in the debt ceiling debate. Not a single solitary actual cut in government.
Never one actually considered supporting the Keystone Pipeline.
Has never attempted to compromise on a budget.

Yeah. big compromise there.

I was listening to a Diane Reams podcast the other day where there was a Democrat talking about the differences between Obama and Clinton. He said that difference is that when Clinton entered a room, he first went over to the Republicans. When Obama enters the room, he first goes over to the Democrats. FWIW.

 

[The T]

Romney does not have the experience as a "community organizer". That is unacceptable

 

[Toro]

Obama Speech - Teleprompter Goes Out - YouTube

Yaawwnn, your memory of the Bush fuckups is faulty. You might want to look at your own. It wasn't only Bush, it was Palin, McCain, your current crop of crazies.

Nobody ever said Obama never has a moment but he is certainly very intelligent. You can't say that about many Republican presidents of recent years. They're really empty suits.

And empty heads.

Obama is an intelligent guy. But he has had zero executive experience, and it shows. Bush, for all his faults - and he had many - at least was a governor for eight years. He didn't do much beforehand but he did have have eight years as head of an executive branch. Obama did not.

Bush passed Medicare part D, a large expansion of government into healthcare, supported primarily by Democrats. Perhaps my memory is failing as I get older, but I can't think of any major piece of legislation - or any piece of legislation for that matter - which Obama passed with a Republican majority.

 

[jillian]

so please, i'm begging, tell me what's moderate about him? (other than the fact that he has no ideology of his own).

If you say that a guy has no ideology, he is a pragmatist, not an extremist ideologue.

The idea that he is beholden to conservative extremists is pretty odd given that conservatives rotated to just about anyone with a pulse in the primaries other than Romney, and Romney won in spite of them.

Which means he will do whatever he has o in order to pay back the same people who think forcing women to have internal sonograms is ok.

And his idea of pragmatic seems to be more of the same as bush II

And just to respond to your comment about the president having no executive experience... That was true first time around. And he'd have lost then b/c of it except that a) the tweeting twit terrified people; and b) the economy melted down.

It's a little bit of a strawman at this point.

And I don't think a failed executive who is going to engage in the same failures as the last GOP'er is an improvement.

And it's clear we don't and won't agree on this. My focus tends to be law and the justices a president will appoint as well as policies which affect middle class interests. Particularly education and governmental employees. Yours are those which benefit an under-regulated financial market.

 

[WillowTree]

Tissue?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Romney wouldn't be a bad president....just sayin'

I actually think he might finally end one of the two parties we have, maybe both.

 

[Toro]

Which means he will do whatever he has o in order to pay back the same people who think forcing women to have internal sonograms is ok.

And his idea of pragmatic seems to be more of the same as bush II

I'm sure he will throw a bone to the Republican wing, but Romney has first and foremost shown himself to be a pragmatist, not an ideologue. Actions speak louder than words.

And just to respond to your comment about the president having no executive experience... That was true first time around. And he'd have lost then b/c of it except that a) the tweeting twit terrified people; and b) the economy melted down.

It's a little bit of a strawman at this point.

And I don't think a failed executive who is going to engage in the same failures as the last GOP'er is an improvement.

Obama now has executive experience and it shows that he has none before. There is little reason to expect him to be much better at it the second time around.

And it's clear we don't and won't agree on this. My focus tends to be law and the justices a president will appoint as well as policies which affect middle class interests. Particularly education and governmental employees. Yours are those which benefit an under-regulated financial market.

My focus is most definitely NOT on an un-regulated market. That's utter hogwash. My focus is on competency. Was Bush incompetent? You bet. That's why I opposed him. Is Obama? Yup. Just as bad. True, at least he didn't get us into any needless wars, but that's an awfully low bar. Our President should be held to a higher standard.

It's easy to demonize the other side. I'm not voting for one party or the other. I am voting for the individual whom I think has the best chance of moving this country out of this morass. Obama has been a failure. Time to see what Mitt Romney can do.

 

[The Rabbi]

Obama is Bush without the wars and executive experience but more confusion and ineptness.

not by a longshot. though i know the right likes saying it.

this president's biggest mistake was in not finding his er... cojones until three years into his presidency.

unlike bush, who was dumb as toast and never thought twice about ramming his agenda down people's throats.... obama actually, until recently, thought the schoolyard bullies would play nice with him if he compromised. i hoped they would, too, fwiw.

If you're a Democrat, you think Obama has reached out to Republicans. If you are a Republican, you think Obama is ramming his agenda down the other side's throat.

If you're a Republican, you think Bush reached out to Democrats. If you are a Democrat, you think Bush rammed his agenda down the other side's throat.

If you're an Independent, you think both parties are playing to their bases, and both are dividing the country by being obstinate and rigid.

Let's see. One of Bush's signature legislative achievments was no Child Left Behind. Who wrote that work? Yes, Ted Kennedy. Which one of Obama's bills was written by a Republican?
How many of Bush's bills passed with large support from Democrats?
How many of Obama's bills passed with large support from Republicans?
No, I think we see who the team player is and who the partisan hack is.

 

[uscitizen]

Bush era policies, like 5% unemployment, real GDP growth, and lower taxes? The horrors!

Oh fuck yes. Let us go back to the Bush era. 750,000 jobs a month going down the drain. Conducting a couple of wars off of the books, then blame whomever follows and puts them on the books.

You realize that Bush was in office for 8 years, not just the last two months of 2008, right?

You do realize that the Iraq war was going on long before the last 2 months of 2008?

 

[The Rabbi]

Oh fuck yes. Let us go back to the Bush era. 750,000 jobs a month going down the drain. Conducting a couple of wars off of the books, then blame whomever follows and puts them on the books.

You realize that Bush was in office for 8 years, not just the last two months of 2008, right?

You do realize that the Iraq war was going on long before the last 2 months of 2008?

You realize the Iraq War was not only a victory, but also created tremendous benefits. How much were we spending on worthless sanctions and no fly zones in Iraq?

 

[Dr Grump]

Do I think he would be as good as Obama? I dunno. But I don't think the US would go to hell in a handbasket if he got the nod.

I also think he is less polarising than Bush and Obama..

Might find some common ground. What helps is that he actually not the ideal candidate for die hard republicans and conservatives...so there is that...

He could even border on being a RINO...

Oh good grief. What would you think of him as president with a Republican House and Senate?

What has gotten into you Grump?

Oh, there would be bad karma for two years, then a whole lot of Repubs would lose their seats in Congress and the Senate...

That is one of the main problems with having a two-party state like the US. There is no third party to temper the extremities of the two parties...

 

[jillian]

not by a longshot. though i know the right likes saying it.

this president's biggest mistake was in not finding his er... cojones until three years into his presidency.

unlike bush, who was dumb as toast and never thought twice about ramming his agenda down people's throats.... obama actually, until recently, thought the schoolyard bullies would play nice with him if he compromised. i hoped they would, too, fwiw.

If you're a Democrat, you think Obama has reached out to Republicans. If you are a Republican, you think Obama is ramming his agenda down the other side's throat.

If you're a Republican, you think Bush reached out to Democrats. If you are a Democrat, you think Bush rammed his agenda down the other side's throat.

If you're an Independent, you think both parties are playing to their bases, and both are dividing the country by being obstinate and rigid.

Let's see. One of Bush's signature legislative achievments was no Child Left Behind. Who wrote that work? Yes, Ted Kennedy. Which one of Obama's bills was written by a Republican?
How many of Bush's bills passed with large support from Democrats?
How many of Obama's bills passed with large support from Republicans?
No, I think we see who the team player is and who the partisan hack is.

and bush and the gop allowed NCLB to be an unfunded mandate which was a nightmare for schools to effectuate.

but it's nice that you picked one bill.

i'd say using the heritiage foundation's healthcare bill; which was enacted by a repub gov of mass was pretty bi-partisan.

but you can pretend it wasn't.

 

[Dr Grump]

Obama now has executive experience and it shows that he has none before. There is little reason to expect him to be much better at it the second time around.

I take issue with this in that Bush's executive experience didn't amount to much. He ran any company he owned or part owned into the ground, and he was an average governor at best. And he was still the worst president in my lifetime if not ever of the USA (not withstanding Avi's good point about Buchanan), which suggests maybe executive experience is given too much kudos.

I won't even go into those executives who ran Enron or Lehmann Bros...I think you get the point...

Another thing is that Obama gets called a "community organiser" by the right as if the is something to be ashamed of. Even though he wasn't one in the sense they try to make out, who would you rather have in office'; somebody who has worked on the ground with the Average Joe, or somebody born with silver spoon in mouth and never worried a day in his life where his next meal is coming from?

In saying that, Romney would be OK...Now, if Santorum or Perry had gotten the nod.....

 

[Neotrotsky]

Indeed, I for one would like to see no political parties
Make the candidates run on just their ideas


In his Farewell Address to the nation, Washington warned the people about political parties

“political parties serve to organize faction, to give it an artificial and extraordinary force; to put, in the place of the
delegated will of the nation the will of a party, often a small but artful and enterprising minority of the community (resulting in)
ill-concerted and incongruous projects ... they are likely ... to become potent engines, by which cunning, ambitious and
unprincipled men will be enabled to subvert the power of the people and to usurp for themselves the reins of government.”​

Good warning but could our system even run today without parties?
How would the transition even work?

 

[Luddly Neddite]

I actually think

No, actually, you do not.

If you did, actually think, I mean, you would never say anything quite so utterly idiotic.

Good Gawd people. No matter how much you hate having a black man in the Lincoln bedroom, the anti- and un-American Idiot From The Land of Etch A Sketch is just about the worst choice for president of what is still the "United" States.

And every one of you, deep in your heart of hearts, knows that is true.

 

[Neotrotsky]

Dr Grump

so starts your ostracism

You dared to think outside the required parameters of some
Free thinking is not allowed