Huwaida Arraf - Free Gaza Movement

[Kalam]

"No soul is burdened beyond its capacity; every sin other than ash-shirk al-akbar is forgiven upon sincere repentance if someone forgets or errs."

Yes, I'm sure that's what the Madrasas in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Lebanon and Gaza are pumping out at this time Kalam.

I imagine they do... the first part of that statement was taken directly from the final verse of Surat ul-Baqara (2:286, recited every morning by many of us) and the second part is a very fundamental teaching that can be found in the Qur'an (39:53), multiple sayings of the Prophet (s.), and the following hadith qudsi:

"O son of Adam, as long as you call upon Me and put your hope in Me, I have forgiven you for what you have done and I do not mind. O son of Adam, if your sins were to reach the clouds of the sky and then you would seek My forgiveness, I would forgive you. O son of Adam, if you were to come to Me with sins that are close to filling the earth and then you would meet Me without ascribing any partners with Me, I would certainly bring to you forgiveness close to filling it."​

I doubt you'll encounter any alumnus of a legitimate madrasah who isn't very aware of those teachings.

"I'm wondering why your spew so often involves attempts to vilify my religion, particularly since PF isn't a Muslim (as far as I know)..."

This is not about P F. It's about me. Remember? You posted about me. So if you rephrase, I will likely answer your query directly, and vilify your religion? I vilify the acts of so many people who seem to all follow your religion.

Associating the religion itself with Satan and questioning its very sincerity moves beyond vilifying its followers.

I mean, let's face it. In the ME when people hear yells of Allah Akbar, they often do not think the "Religion of Peace."

Startlingly few of those people seem to be aware how often that phrase is used in everyday speech and in our daily prayers. Your media has ensured that you associate that very basic utterance with self-detonation.

Regardless of my "attempts to vilify Islam" I put forwards that Islam can defend itself. When Muslims choose to defend Islam, people die all over the bloody world.

You'd think they'd learn to stop attacking it...

Jihad demands response to victimization and there are 21 border flash points world wide with the single variable being that they are all Muslims who just coincidentally practice the same belief and who 'some' say are all being victimized to jihad. Misdirected? Indeed.

Go figure, eh?

Victimization of believers seems to be a tendency of all governments based in kufr, hence my fundamentalist politics. The hate is misdirected because the brunt of it seems to fall on you when it should be directed at disbelief itself.

 

[P F Tinmore]

You have never read the Hamas Charter PF?

I'm surprised at you.

Go to Wikepedia. You love them so much. They even amended to their slippery 'historic document'.



Continue to wait.

Sure I have read it.

Normally a charter, constitution or similar document has a number of signatures of those officials who endorse that document.

So, who signed that charter?

You need to research rather than ask an Israeli Jew, don't you think? Learn on your own what you already know and pretend to an even greater ignorance than that is your usual wont.

“We have discovered how to hit the Jews where they are most vulnerable. The Jews love life, so that is what we will take from them. We are going to win, because they love life and we love death.”

- Hassan Nasrallah, Secretary General of Hezbollah

This is the frightening progression of Islamic terrorism. Rather than an anomaly, killing children and babies is actually the natural next step in its dark development. In her book, Death Orders: The Vanguard of Modern Terrorism in Revolutionary Russia, Anna Geifman, a professor of history at Boston College, explains the background of this disturbing evolution, saying the basis for all modern terrorist movements, especially of the three best known ones — Communist, Nazi and Islamic — is thanatophilia, or worship of death.

You need to research rather than ask an Israeli Jew, don't you think? Learn on your own what you already know and pretend to an even greater ignorance than that is your usual wont.

IOW, you do not want to admit that nobody signed that thing.

 

[Ropey]

Regardless of my "attempts to vilify Islam" I put forwards that Islam can defend itself. When Muslims choose to defend Islam, people die all over the bloody world.

You'd think they'd learn to stop attacking it...

Can't. The Muslims hit out and then when hit back call themselves victims. You know how that works. Read "Hudna"

Jihad demands response to victimization and there are 21 border flash points world wide with the single variable being that they are all Muslims who just coincidentally practice the same belief and who 'some' say are all being victimized to jihad. Misdirected? Indeed.

Go figure, eh?

Victimization of believers seems to be a tendency of all governments based in kufr, hence my fundamentalist politics. The hate is misdirected because the brunt of it seems to fall on you when it should be directed at disbelief itself.

You have let me know your fundamentalist policies towards Israel already. Misdirected? Seems very tightly directed from Mohamed. I see what is being taught and this is multigenerational Kalam.

Longer lived than you or I regardless.

 

[Kalam]

He is a Muslim. Not practicing and an apostate for certain and I know you say he's not Muslim because he is not practicing, but that's not the case.

You know he is just off the path. He is still a Muslim.

According to what understanding? A person who doesn't consciously submit to God is not a Muslim. 'Muslim' has a specific meaning and isn't merely a term applied to people associated with a certain religion. If you're talking about the word as it was used by Maududi, he's only a 'Muslim' in the sense that you are.

Kufr literally means 'to cover' or 'to conceal'. The man who denies God is called kafir (concealer) because he conceals by his disbelief what is inherent in his nature and embalmed in his own soul -- for, indeed, his nature is instinctively imbued with 'Islam'. His whole body, every sinew and every fiber, functions in obedience to that instinct. Each and every particle of existence -- living or lifeless -- functions in accordance with 'Islam' and is fulfilling the duty that has been assigned to it. But the vision of this man has been blurred, his intellect has been befogged, and he is unable to see the manifest. His own nature has become concealed from his eyes and he thinks and acts in utter disregard of it. Reality becomes estranged from him and he gropes in the dark -- such is the nature of kufr. (Towards Understanding Islam)​

 

[Ropey]

I was told that he is merely in the dark. But still part of the room that is dark. It is part of the house that is light. How he behaves or thinks whilst in that dark is very important though. That was impressed upon me quite strongly.

However, it's your belief Kalam and I will not presume. If you say that once a believer decides he was in error, he is immediately banished from being seen as Muslim then who am I to argue?

I understand that separation you make.

But he still understands what being a Muslim is like? You do give him that?

But then if non believers can post cartoons of Islam and Mohammad and death/destruction occurs, imagine what one of these apostates would get if they lived in a Muslim country and tried to do what you so nicely put down there.

Ah, we always get to there don't we Kalam? On the ground. Where what you write is not showing in the actions of the true believers.

Their responses are far more pejoratively enforced, wouldn't you say?

 

[Kalam]

Can't. The Muslims hit out and then when hit back call themselves victims. You know how that works.

Who 'hit out' in Chechnya before the first recent invasion? During Stalin's ethnic cleansing campaigns there? Which act of Muslim aggression prompted the original Russian invasion and the subsequent Caucasian War 200 years ago?

Read "Hudna"

Which?

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2y8Sx4B2Sk"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2y8Sx4B2Sk[/ame]

You have let me know your fundamentalist policies towards Israel already. Misdirected? Seems very tightly directed from Mohamed.

What? Hatred for Jews in general? The scripture is clear:

So for their breaking of their covenant We cursed them and We made their hearts hard. They distort the words from their places and forgot a portion of what they were reminded. And you will not cease to discover treachery from them, except for a few of them. But forgive them and overlook. Indeed, Allah loves the good-doers. - 5:13

...And among the people of Musa is a community which guides with Truth and establishes justice by it. - 7:159​

A certain amount of condemnation is understandable in light of the Jews' breach of their covenant with God as well as multiple instances in which Jewish tribes betrayed Muhammad (s.) after he afforded them protection and justice. At least one of the two Jalals (famous commentators several centuries ago) believed that 'forgiving' acts of treachery was no longer required and that they could be viewed as casus belli; either way, our behavior toward you is determined by your behavior toward us. That's a common theme in our ethics.

I see what is being taught and this is multigenerational Kalam.

Longer lived than you or I regardless.

It seems as if the rise of hate paralleled the rise of Zionism in Palestine.

 

[Kalam]

I was told that he is merely in the dark. But still part of the room that is dark. It is part of the house that is light. How he behaves or thinks whilst in that dark is very important though. That was impressed upon me quite strongly.

I'm not quite sure what you mean here... I believe that a person's behavior while he's an apostate determines his legal status, yes, but he is not a Muslim regardless of his behavior.

However, it's your belief Kalam and I will not presume. If you say that once a believer decides he was in error, he is immediately banished from being seen as Muslim then who am I to argue?

If he repents and returns to prayer, he can become a Muslim again. But a person isn't a Muslim while he's in a state of apostasy.

I understand that separation you make.

But he still understands what being a Muslim is like? You do give him that?

No, I have to disagree. Understanding Islam and what being a Muslim is like precludes any chance of future apostasy.

But then if non believers can post cartoons of Islam and Mohammad and death/destruction occurs, imagine what one of these apostates would get if they lived in a Muslim country and tried to do what you so nicely put down there.

Ah, we always get to there don't we Kalam? On the ground. Where what you write is not showing in the actions of the true believers.

Their responses are far more pejoratively enforced, wouldn't you say?

Penning that sort of work in a jurisdiction governed by the Shari'ah would result in execution for apostasy/treason if he remained impenitent. A person who incites people to oppose the very foundation on which society is based can't be permitted to exist within it.

 

[Ropey]

Does it?

Zaki Ameen dedicated his life to Islam. He was raised as a Muslim and studied for a degree in Sharia law, in order to become a qualified Imam. Zaki earned his living from preaching and teaching the principles of Islam, working as an Imam in Egypt, Iraq, Yemen and many gulf states.

It most certainly does.

Eh, I don't really find extremely vague claims about being an imam and studying the shari'ah to be particularly convincing, especially without independent confirmation or any accompanying academic credentials. As I said, one must be able to distinguish between fluff and works of actual substance. Anybody can adopt a pseudonym and profit off of Western fear and ignorance by claiming first-hand knowledge and making sensational pronouncements. In any case, "Zaki" claims to be an apostate, not a Muslim.

I watched an interview with a formerly Jewish Wahhabi who claimed that Jews are taught to deceive everyone and be cunning. Your thoughts?

He is a Muslim. Not practicing and an apostate for certain and I know you say he's not Muslim because he is not practicing, but that's not the case.

You know he is just off the path. He is still a Muslim.

Jews are taught critical thinking. They are taught to use their minds and not be taken in by things like Hudnas.

I know there are many would would like them to see the Hudna as a real truce, but we just use our minds, look to the past history of those proposing the Hudna and say, we know.

So, we will continue to watchfully follow those who have their motives and many not so ulterior. Some say, "Trust, but verify". I say Do not trust and verification must be continuous in any proposals.

Keep an eye on Israel. They have kept the peace with both Egypt and Jordan and have proven, without doubt that they can keep a peace.

More than an eye needs to be kept on other arenas as well.

So, I"ve little to say to you. Apolgist. Who takes a call for the death of Jews by Islam and says that a poll by Jewish high school children that says some less than fifty percent of these kids do not want equality for Arabs in Israel.

You call that the same as your buddies calling for the end of Jews worldwide.

Islam, a Religion of Satan pretending to be a religion of Peace.

Masquerade, Paper face on parade. Masquerade...

 

[GHook93]

Zaki Ameen was raised a Muslim and once dedicated his life to Islam, working as an Imam. He then realized how the teachings of Muhammad and the Quran were used to deceive followers, in order to gain control, money and power.

Living by the Point of My Spear is his book, revealing shocking evidence against Muhammad.

....

The title is not what I would like, but I find his book very interesting indeed.

About the Author Zaki Ameen - author of Living by the Point of My Spear - the dark side of the Prophet Muhammad, biography

Slaves in Islam

The saddest part about your post is that it's serious.

Saddest thing about you, is your false prophet was a vengful murderer, terrorist, practiced genocide, was a warlord, rapest, child molester, a women hater (not just a sexist) and an all around crazy guy. He was definitely no Jesus! In fact he was the opposite of Christ, prehaps the original Anti-Christ!

 

[GHook93]

Oh wait that mall is in Gaza

Look at what the Israelis made the Palestinian Dress in

The poor starving Gazanians have no food? Yea right!

Interesting women in burqa needs need beauty products? I mean troll like kalam and PF claim the Gazanian are in dire straits, but they have an overstock of beauty products!

A clothing store, I thought all Gazanians ran around naked!

Not a bad looking place no?

OK, but they do have very large mice in Gaza! Must he a Mosad mole!

 

[P F Tinmore]

Oh wait that mall is in Gaza

Look at what the Israelis made the Palestinian Dress in

The poor starving Gazanians have no food? Yea right!

Interesting women in burqa needs need beauty products? I mean troll like kalam and PF claim the Gazanian are in dire straits, but they have an overstock of beauty products!

A clothing store, I thought all Gazanians ran around naked!

Not a bad looking place no?

OK, but they do have very large mice in Gaza! Must he a Mosad mole!

Isn't it amazing how much stuff you can drag through tunnels?

 

[Kalam]

I disagree with that view and am moving towards Islam being a Death Cult Religion of Satan with your continued inconsistencies with what is happening on the ground and what you spout in the West.

Maybe I have been wrong and you are a fifth column as I am so often being told. I disagreed with that before, but my mind is changing. You have helped to clarify the inconsistencies of the Muslim apologists and what happens on the ground.

Now I understand from this post. I am finally clear now. You whine about Chechnya while your Satanist Cult calls for the death of Jews worldwide.

So you finally reduce yourself to spouting malicious and asinine canards along the lines of what your ancestors were forced to endure for so many centuries. The sense of entitlement and collective hubris this history has left you with will be the downfall of your people; not us. Remember that. Take care -- I'm off to plot your religion's extermination with the rest of the learned elders of Makkah.

 

[Ropey]

Your words and 'their' words seem far different Kalam.

I will listen to them. You continue to spout off your Muslim peaceful intent with the Islamic religion of Peace.

I disagree with that view and am moving towards Islam being a Death Cult Religion of Satan with your continued inconsistencies with what is happening on the ground and what you spout in the West.

Maybe I have been wrong and you are a fifth column as I am so often being told. I disagreed with that before, but my mind is changing. You have helped to clarify the inconsistencies of the Muslim apologists and what happens on the ground.

No, I have to disagree

Disagree away.

 

[Ropey]

Take care -- I'm off to plot your religion's extermination with the rest of the learned elders of Makkah.

You flatter yourself, we are drops of water.

So you finally reduce yourself to spouting malicious and asinine canards along the lines of what your ancestors were forced to endure for so many centuries. The sense of entitlement and collective hubris this history has left you with will be the downfall of your people; not us. Remember that. Take care -- I'm off to plot your religion's extermination with the rest of the learned elders of Makkah.

And you have always run away from the "Works of Muslims" on the ground. Continue.

 

[Kalam]

Take care -- I'm off to plot your religion's extermination with the rest of the learned elders of Makkah.

You flatter yourself.

This from the man who managed to uncover history's grandest religious conspiracy! No, sir, you flatter yourself. You subscribe to an ideology of self-flattery and false entitlement; that was my point.

 

[Ropey]

Take care -- I'm off to plot your religion's extermination with the rest of the learned elders of Makkah.

Not going yet?

Take care -- I'm off to plot your religion's extermination with the rest of the learned elders of Makkah.

You flatter yourself.

This from the man who managed to uncover history's grandest religious conspiracy! No, sir, you flatter yourself. You subscribe to an ideology of self-flattery and false entitlement; that was my point.

I mirrored your intent Kalam. I often do that.

Others will see it if you are too blind.

 

[Kalam]

And you have always run away from the "Works of Muslims" on the ground. Continue.

I don't hold religions responsible for actions with no precedent in their teachings; that's what allows me to appreciate yours in spite of you and your ilk while you convince yourself that mine is 'Satanic.'

 

[Ropey]

Actually, your minimization, softening and outright machinations are what has helped convince me Kalam.

And no. I am not going to run around and compile a Kalam list for you. You are clear. My ilk sees this clarity.

Deal

 

[Kalam]

Not going yet?

I've just been notified of my dismissal from the council; I'm a marked man now that I've allowed its machinations to be discovered.

I mirrored your intent Kalam. I often do that.

Others will see it if you are too blind.

Blast! Confounded once again by the dratted white knight of Judaism!

 

[Ropey]

Funny boy.

Everyone thought this fellow was funny.

They thought this fellow looked like the fellow above.