Hundreds of Marines dead and wounded because Adminstration dropped ball on Armour

Oh. In that case, why not send them out with no armor? Look. Some armor is better than no armor.

You are correct, and all military personnel deployed in a combat status have had personal body armor since the 70s. In case you are misunderstanding, the argument here is not whether or not they had personal body armor, it's the dishonest, unrealistic expectation being superimposed that they be provided the most cutting-edge technology of the moment. That NEVER happens, and isn't likely to.

I still contend that Bush should have waited until we were fully prepared with more than enough of our finest armor readily available.

By military standards, we were fully-prepared and each person had the body armor purchased by the US military and provided to its personnel. That's how it works.

I guess that I hold the commander in chief (no matter the political party) to a higher standard. The buck stops with the president and it would not have taken too much time and trouble to check with his military armament suppliers and others to make sure that all was ready. Isn’t the president ultimately the boss of those professionals? Again, the president calls the shots. He ultimately makes the decision. He pushes the big red button. He pushed it way too soon when not enough was ready.

You obvioulsy don't have a realistic viewpoint of the bureaucracy. There's a chain of command and each level of that chain of command is responsible for certain areas.

I personally wouldn't want ANY politician choosing my 782 gear nor weapons for me. Bad enough bureaucrat officers do it without a clue, much less a TXANG pilot or a lawyer.

I don’t see that as a good comparison. Someone sending soldiers out to risk death without sufficient top-quality armor is not the same as someone neglecting the cleanliness of a toilet seat

It's a fair comparison if you understand how the chain of command works. I'm comparing THE responsibility, not the importance of the individual responsibilities.

The Base Commanding General is technically responsible for each and every head on the base. If one doesn't work, does the CG get blamed, or does Facilities Maintenance since it is in their area of expertise to keep the shitters flushing?

Blaming the guy at the top for specifics that are not in his job description IS political. I guarantee you if you dig up a job description for CinC, it won't say in charge of testing, choosing and purchasing supplies for individual combat infantrymen anywhere.

It's someone else's job.
 
Beside the fact that if we waited until every gee whiz, super neat state of the art piece of equipment were tested fielded and provided to every member of the military, we would NEVER even conduct training exersizes, much less any war anywhere ever again for defense or offense.

Here is one for you, while in Okinawa we had a Marine LCpl drown while on a training exesize. Should we have stood down and waited while every member of the command was personally taught to swim?

Further he probably was unconscious before he hit the water, they think his squad weapon struck him in the head as he fell off the rope. Should the command have ensured no one could be knocked unconscious in a strange accident before allowing anyone to sling a weapon on their back to crawl across a rope above a pool of water?

There were two divers in the water for such accidents, yet somehow when he hit the water he spiralled away from the area he should have been in and it took over 6 minutes for the 2 divers plus 2 additional Marines to find him in the water.

Should the command have placed more divers in the water and failing to do so were they criminally neglegant? The Battalion continued to train, including finishing the endurance course that had the LCpl die on. His small circle of personal friends that knew of the accident were removed from training that day and returned to training the next day.

Should the command have provided every Marine crossing the pool of water on that rope with a rebreather in case they fell in the water? We do have that technology after all. Maybe rather than cross that pool of water on a rope the Marine Corps should have built a bridge and in combat when ever we encounter a stream or crevass that needs crossing we should stop until engineers can arrive and provide said bridge?

You do not get it, so I will stop. It is a waste of time explaining to you why your claims are ignorant.
 
Beside the fact that if we waited until every gee whiz, super neat state of the art piece of equipment were tested fielded and provided to every member of the military, we would NEVER even conduct training exersizes, much less any war anywhere ever again for defense or offense.

Here is one for you, while in Okinawa we had a Marine LCpl drown while on a training exesize. Should we have stood down and waited while every member of the command was personally taught to swim?

Further he probably was unconscious before he hit the water, they think his squad weapon struck him in the head as he fell off the rope. Should the command have ensured no one could be knocked unconscious in a strange accident before allowing anyone to sling a weapon on their back to crawl across a rope above a pool of water?

There were two divers in the water for such accidents, yet somehow when he hit the water he spiralled away from the area he should have been in and it took over 6 minutes for the 2 divers plus 2 additional Marines to find him in the water.

Should the command have placed more divers in the water and failing to do so were they criminally neglegant? The Battalion continued to train, including finishing the endurance course that had the LCpl die on. His small circle of personal friends that knew of the accident were removed from training that day and returned to training the next day.

Should the command have provided every Marine crossing the pool of water on that rope with a rebreather in case they fell in the water? We do have that technology after all. Maybe rather than cross that pool of water on a rope the Marine Corps should have built a bridge and in combat when ever we encounter a stream or crevass that needs crossing we should stop until engineers can arrive and provide said bridge?

You do not get it, so I will stop. It is a waste of time explaining to you why your claims are ignorant.


I still stand by my opinion. Perhaps things perhaps can’t be perfect. I think that the president could have done a much better job of handling this war. He should have at least taken a couple of days to check on the condition of the hospitals. Perhaps if he did so, he would have bee perceived as more caring. He could have checked with department leaders and asked if we had more than enough supplies.

When I read articles from various sources that say that many of our soldiers were bitching and complaining about armor, I think that something is amiss. If someone is going to throw us into war, I want him to be darn sure that we have more supplies than we need. That apparently was not the case. Otherwise, our soldiers would not have complained as they did. The proof it right there in those articles.

I give up. You win. I guess that we will never agree. I just wanted to get my point across. Okay. We can’t have a perfect war with no injury. I still think that it could have been handled better. I see reports about awful conditions in our military hospitals. I see articles about many soldiers griping to Rumsfeld about supplies. I ask – where is the leader in this – where is the commander in chief – where is the person who sent our solider to this war?
 
Well anyone who's anyone knows that Bush is responsible for everything. You remember? He sent that hurricane down to New Orleans to kill all of the poor people. He started the outbreak of the herpes virus also. (that's just what i heard). :eusa_think: Come to think about it I think Bush also called and told that guy to drop that puppy off the cliff. I've got a headache now from all of this talking, stupid George Bush.

I like it when people blame presidents for stuff they have no control over. People often overlook the fact that Mr. Clinton downsized the military and caused alot of problems we're having now. He also failed to act when he was offered Osama's head on a plate. Needless to say, Clinton called George Bush, and Bush told Clinton to let him go. (Sarcasm)

I'd hate to lug around an extra 30lbs. in the field.

PS I think Bill, Hill, and Obama are responsible for the retarded posts in this thread. lol:cuckoo:
 

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