Hugo Chávez: people's hero

[healthmyths]

He's dying?

No. He's dead.

While I have no desire to see people die. I can't say Im going to get too upset over this. He is in God's hands now and he will be accountable for what he has done.

You mean like bringing clean water, food, health care, education, and hope to villagers who lived in squalor while American oil companies exploited the natural resource wealth of their nation?

Ah.. yes the "poor people" as that other rich "poor people" champion said about Chavez...
Former U.S. Rep. Joseph Kennedy II recalled that Chavez and the people of Venezuela donated 200 million gallons of heating oil to Citizens Energy, which distributes oil to lower income families in 25 states and Washington, D.C.

Kennedy, who heads Citizens Energy, said Chavez cared about the poor. A nephew of President John F. Kennedy, he said his prayers go out to Chavez's family and the Venezuelan people.
“The Chávez Frías family in Venezuela has amassed a fortune of a similar scale since the arrival of Chávez to the presidency in 1999,” said Brewer in an analysis published in their website.

Brewer said that Cuba is receiving about $5 billion per year from the Venezuelan treasury and in oil shipments and other resources.

“We believe that organized bolivarian criminal groups within the Chávez administration have subtracted around $100 billion out of the nearly $1 trillion in oil income made by PDVSA since 1999.”
Analyst estimates Chávez?s family fortune at around $2 billion

It's ok to become a billionaire as Chavez did.. because he did it helping the poor people!

 

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,


1 Like most people he did bad and good.
2. I like the good he did, and the bad he did isn't for me to judge, whatever it was.
3. I tell you frankly the fucking oil and gas companies are fucking greedy as hell, and they want *all* the money from oil and gas, which makes them a fucking target if you ask me.....
4. I have personal experience with the gas companies here in Texas, they make nearly *all* the money from production and services of these gas wells they've been drilling here in Fort Worth, Texas they make 99.99 percent of all the profits of the natural gas.
5. They pay each other royally, and fail to share the *royalties*.
6. I know for a fucking fact this to be true.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

 

[healthmyths]

But Let a filthy wealthy billionaire create businesses that employ "poor" people provide them income and idiots like you and Chavez have disdain... YET both Chavez and filthy wealthy billionaire MADE billions off the poor people!
But of course Chavez is a romantic figure like Che` et.al. those socialists anti-capitalists for everyone except themselves!

Chavez, Castro, et.al. were/are billionaires!

 

[Polk]

Really fear? Thats why he was freely elected multiple times?

A self-proclaimed socialist and revolutionary, he won enduring support among the poor and repeated election victories by using Venezuela's oil wealth to pursue socialist policies.

His government has implemented a number of "missions" or social programs, including education and health services for all, something the workers never had there.

Imagine that! Using Venezuela's natural resources for the people even helping people on fixed incomes in the United States with winter heating oil. Yes he was a very very bad man (to corporations and imperialists)

Don't bother.

These are folks that supported really bloody dictators like The Shah of Iran, Pinochet, Marcos and until he went "feral", Saddam Hussien. They shoveled money at Osama Bin Laden and pardoned Orlando Bosch. They made deals with Gaddafi.

Chavez may have been a 2 bit thug and done some pretty undemocratic things, like roll their own constitution..but that came with "goodies" for the improverished Venezulans. Conservative only like Dictators that give out goodies to the rich.

good grief sallow
unbelievable

Why? It's absolutely true. The right has no moral problem with "strongmen" as long they were in our pockets.

 

[clevergirl]

"two peas in a pod" "kissing cousins"

Not everyone thought the world of Chávez, however. Middle and upper-class Venezuelans despised him for nationalizing some of their lands and industries and were behind the numerous attempts to oust him. Many of them feared that Chávez was building dictatorial powers, and it is true that he had a dictatorial streak in him: he temporarily suspended Congress more than once and his 2009 referendum victory essentially allowed him to be President as long as the people kept electing him.

He cracked down on the press, greatly increasing restrictions as well as punishments for slander. He drove through a change in how the Supreme Court is structured, which allowed him to stack it with loyalists.

 

[Darkwind]

I'm with Congressman Ed Royce,

“Hugo Chavez was a tyrant who forced the people of Venezuela to live in fear," Royce said. "His death dents the alliance of anti-U.S. leftist leaders in South America. Good riddance to this dictator."

Amen to that, the world is a little better place this morning.

Really fear? Thats why he was freely elected multiple times?

A self-proclaimed socialist and revolutionary, he won enduring support among the poor and repeated election victories by using Venezuela's oil wealth to pursue socialist policies.

His government has implemented a number of "missions" or social programs, including education and health services for all, something the workers never had there.

Imagine that! Using Venezuela's natural resources for the people even helping people on fixed incomes in the United States with winter heating oil. Yes he was a very very bad man (to corporations and imperialists)

Freely elected. Thanks for the laugh. Its been a grey day here so far.

 

[Katzndogz]

Chavez was not a stupid man. He was a master at class warfare. He was a champion of the poor so it was to his benefit to keep the poor very poor and dependent on him for whatever they had. Chavez' Venezuela was the human version of Pavlov's dogs. The Pavlovian response works best when the dogs are caged and all they get is what the master gives them when the bell rings.

 

[Polk]

Chavez was not a stupid man. He was a master at class warfare. He was a champion of the poor so it was to his benefit to keep the poor very poor and dependent on him for whatever they had. Chavez' Venezuela was the human version of Pavlov's dogs. The Pavlovian response works best when the dogs are caged and all they get is what the master gives them when the bell rings.

That doesn't make any sense. I hear people on the right making this argument all the time. "People in poverty hate being in poverty so much that they elect people who make sure they remain poor forever". Notice how that's completely irrational?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Conservative economic philosophy is based on the desire to make the rich richer and the poor poorer;

of course they're going to hate a Chavez.

And as to 'humanity' issues? G W Bush killed far more innocent people than Chavez did, and yet conservatives see Bush as the hero and Chavez as the villain.

Amazing.

 

[The Rabbi]

Chavez was not a stupid man. He was a master at class warfare. He was a champion of the poor so it was to his benefit to keep the poor very poor and dependent on him for whatever they had. Chavez' Venezuela was the human version of Pavlov's dogs. The Pavlovian response works best when the dogs are caged and all they get is what the master gives them when the bell rings.

That doesn't make any sense. I hear people on the right making this argument all the time. "People in poverty hate being in poverty so much that they elect people who make sure they remain poor forever". Notice how that's completely irrational?

No. They elect people who promise to bring them out of poverty by punishing the wealthy. They do fine at the second task but always seem to come up short on the first. This happens over and over. Like Detroit.

 

[Polk]

Yes, we all know how difficult the life of the wealthy is.

 

[The Rabbi]

Yes, we all know how difficult the life of the wealthy is.

WHich is why their divorce rate, suicide rate etc is so low, right? Oh wait.

 

[clevergirl]

Control the media control the masses... This IS equal to no real freedom at all~

 

[Polk]

Yes, we all know how difficult the life of the wealthy is.

WHich is why their divorce rate, suicide rate etc is so low, right? Oh wait.

They're lower than the general population.

 

[Polk]

Control the media control the masses... This IS equal to no real freedom at all~

It's hard to say Chavez "control[led] the media". While there were actions taken to reduce the power of his critics on radio and television (although, in fairness, the actions were not inconsistent with the ideological priorities of the regime independent of any sort of intent to censorship/chill debate), Venezuelan newspapers were militantly anti-Chavez for most of his tenure in office. To the extent the major newspapers warmed to Chavez, it was due to losing market share to other newspapers which the public saw as more balanced.

 

[Bfgrn]

Chavez was not a stupid man. He was a master at class warfare. He was a champion of the poor so it was to his benefit to keep the poor very poor and dependent on him for whatever they had. Chavez' Venezuela was the human version of Pavlov's dogs. The Pavlovian response works best when the dogs are caged and all they get is what the master gives them when the bell rings.

Yea, old Hugo really fucked the poor!

He fucked the poor by making strong steps in education and health. The expected number of years of education rose from 10.5 years in 2000 to 14.2 years by 2011, no doubt driven by the Missions that Chavez championed. Venezuela's life expectancy increased from 72.4 years to 74.4 years during that same time period.

Chavez had them all fooled by being democratically elected with popular margins and higher turnout rates than we have seen in the U.S. in decades.

Chavez really fucked people who opposed him. He pardoned those who attempted to overthrow his democratically elected government in 2002.

Chavez really fucked the poor of the world. Inflated oil revenues supported citizens of many nations in need, including Americans in need of low-cost heating oil.

As I read the responses of you bunch of right wing turds, Pavlov's dogs has been at the forefront of my mind. I wonder if Pavlov ever worked with parrots?

 

[clevergirl]

Chavez was not a stupid man. He was a master at class warfare. He was a champion of the poor so it was to his benefit to keep the poor very poor and dependent on him for whatever they had. Chavez' Venezuela was the human version of Pavlov's dogs. The Pavlovian response works best when the dogs are caged and all they get is what the master gives them when the bell rings.

That doesn't make any sense. I hear people on the right making this argument all the time. "People in poverty hate being in poverty so much that they elect people who make sure they remain poor forever". Notice how that's completely irrational?

No. They elect people who promise to bring them out of poverty by punishing the wealthy. They do fine at the second task but always seem to come up short on the first. This happens over and over. Like Detroit.

Actually with regards to Chavez you'd be wrong. He seized control of the nations oil and used it as capital to maintain his popularity amongst the country's poor. He re-wrote the nations constitution to ensure his ability to be re-elected. His new constitution gave him control of the press to make certain he was promoted as a hero. He basically owned control of the government ensuring that all stats collected were flattering.

All of this made him a popular dictator by hook (free stuff for the poor) and by crook (no one could know the truth of anything).

Think Obama folks~

 

[Mac1958]

That doesn't make any sense. I hear people on the right making this argument all the time. "People in poverty hate being in poverty so much that they elect people who make sure they remain poor forever". Notice how that's completely irrational?

They vote that way because they are promised that the government will provide a better life for them. And, invariably, when that so often doesn't happen, those for whom they vote blame someone else. It's a win-win for those who are making the promises.

.

 

[Polk]

That doesn't make any sense. I hear people on the right making this argument all the time. "People in poverty hate being in poverty so much that they elect people who make sure they remain poor forever". Notice how that's completely irrational?

No. They elect people who promise to bring them out of poverty by punishing the wealthy. They do fine at the second task but always seem to come up short on the first. This happens over and over. Like Detroit.

Actually with regards to Chavez you'd be wrong. He seized control of the nations oil and used it as capital to maintain his popularity amongst the country's poor. He re-wrote the nations constitution to ensure his ability to be re-elected. His new constitution gave him control of the press to make certain he was promoted as a hero. He basically owned control of the government ensuring that all stats collected were flattering.

All of this made him a popular dictator by hook (free stuff for the poor) and by crook (no one could know the truth of anything).

Think Obama folks~

1. Chavez did not nationalize the Venezuelan oil industry. I had already been nationalized since the 1970s. The disputes between the Chavez regime and foreign oil companies revolved around contracts concerning joint ventures between the parties where the Chavez regime wanted changes to the contract to make them more favorable to the Venezuelan state.
2. There is nothing wrong with using a public resource for the public's benefit (or are we really going to argue that oil on public lands doesn't belong to the people of the state collectively, through their representatives?).
3. Chavez did not unilaterally change the constitution to remove term limits. The term limits were approved by a popular referendum that had 70%+ turnout and was considered free and fair by all outside observers.
4. If the constitution gave Chavez "control of the press" he certainly did a poor job of using that power, since Venezuelan newspapers were very critical of this administration, as were some of the largest television stations.
5. While the government did meddle in statistic collection, this really isn't that unusual in Latin America. Argentina engages in this same behavior.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Chavez was not a stupid man. He was a master at class warfare. He was a champion of the poor so it was to his benefit to keep the poor very poor and dependent on him for whatever they had. .

The only thing that keeps that from being a good point is that it is factually untrue.