Howard Dean rejects Obamacare

[sealybobo]

I am sorely disappointed in my fellow progressives' attitude about the health care bill(s).

I agree with them that neither bill contains everything we wanted.

I disagree with them that the bill should be killed just because it won't.

I would think that when the left finds itself saying the same thing the right is saying, they'd stop a second and rethink their position!

Count me out of the "loony left." I'm a logical lefty.

Here's the deal. The GOP of course will look to find anything wrong with the bill and sell us on the idea that its a worthless bill that does nothing more than make the insurance giants even more money.

So why doesn't that make them happy? Capitalism wins.

And the bill doesn't go into affect until 2014, so I expect it to be fixed/altered/amended before then, and not just once.

Its a start. Decades went by and we couldn't do healthcare reform because the GOP would block it. Now we have the majority, but of course special interest got to the majority party, just like they always do.

So don't expect industry to suffer because the Dems are in power. They understand how important corporations are to the country.

The GOP give corporations too much power. They allow corporations to do things that hurt we the people.

Companies should only operate in America if they are profitable AND they serve the publics interest. If they don't, then they must be dealt with.

And its not like these companies that got us in trouble make anything. Banks, mortgage companies, wallstreet.

And all the companies that make stuff, which are the most important companies, the GOP let them all go overseas.

 

[AnnECUCherry]

I am sorely disappointed in my fellow progressives' attitude about the health care bill(s).

I agree with them that neither bill contains everything we wanted.

I disagree with them that the bill should be killed just because it won't.

I would think that when the left finds itself saying the same thing the right is saying, they'd stop a second and rethink their position!

Count me out of the "loony left." I'm a logical lefty.

Here's the deal. The GOP of course will look to find anything wrong with the bill and sell us on the idea that its a worthless bill that does nothing more than make the insurance giants even more money.

So why doesn't that make them happy? Capitalism wins.

And the bill doesn't go into affect until 2014, so I expect it to be fixed/altered/amended before then, and not just once.

Its a start. Decades went by and we couldn't do healthcare reform because the GOP would block it. Now we have the majority, but of course special interest got to the majority party, just like they always do.

So don't expect industry to suffer because the Dems are in power. They understand how important corporations are to the country.

The GOP give corporations too much power. They allow corporations to do things that hurt we the people.

Companies should only operate in America if they are profitable AND they serve the publics interest. If they don't, then they must be dealt with.

And its not like these companies that got us in trouble make anything. Banks, mortgage companies, wallstreet.

And all the companies that make stuff, which are the most important companies, the GOP let them all go overseas.

I agree: It's a start. Killing the bill would accomplish nothing toward getting where we want to go.

 

[Cal]

I am sorely disappointed in my fellow progressives' attitude about the health care bill(s).

I agree with them that neither bill contains everything we wanted.

I disagree with them that the bill should be killed just because it won't.

I would think that when the left finds itself saying the same thing the right is saying, they'd stop a second and rethink their position!

Count me out of the "loony left." I'm a logical lefty.

Here's the deal. The GOP of course will look to find anything wrong with the bill and sell us on the idea that its a worthless bill that does nothing more than make the insurance giants even more money.

So why doesn't that make them happy? Capitalism wins.

And the bill doesn't go into affect until 2014, so I expect it to be fixed/altered/amended before then, and not just once.

Its a start. Decades went by and we couldn't do healthcare reform because the GOP would block it. Now we have the majority, but of course special interest got to the majority party, just like they always do.

So don't expect industry to suffer because the Dems are in power. They understand how important corporations are to the country.

The GOP give corporations too much power. They allow corporations to do things that hurt we the people.

Companies should only operate in America if they are profitable AND they serve the publics interest. If they don't, then they must be dealt with.

And its not like these companies that got us in trouble make anything. Banks, mortgage companies, wallstreet.

And all the companies that make stuff, which are the most important companies, the GOP let them all go overseas.

I agree: It's a start. Killing the bill would accomplish nothing toward getting where we want to go.

But is forcing thousands of people into buying insurance from the very private insurance companies we are trying to regulate really a start?

 

[AnnECUCherry]

Here's the deal. The GOP of course will look to find anything wrong with the bill and sell us on the idea that its a worthless bill that does nothing more than make the insurance giants even more money.

So why doesn't that make them happy? Capitalism wins.

And the bill doesn't go into affect until 2014, so I expect it to be fixed/altered/amended before then, and not just once.

Its a start. Decades went by and we couldn't do healthcare reform because the GOP would block it. Now we have the majority, but of course special interest got to the majority party, just like they always do.

So don't expect industry to suffer because the Dems are in power. They understand how important corporations are to the country.

The GOP give corporations too much power. They allow corporations to do things that hurt we the people.

Companies should only operate in America if they are profitable AND they serve the publics interest. If they don't, then they must be dealt with.

And its not like these companies that got us in trouble make anything. Banks, mortgage companies, wallstreet.

And all the companies that make stuff, which are the most important companies, the GOP let them all go overseas.

I agree: It's a start. Killing the bill would accomplish nothing toward getting where we want to go.

But is forcing thousands of people into buying insurance from the very private insurance companies we are trying to regulate really a start?

Yes, it is. Switzerland mandates health insurance coverage, and everyone purchases from private insurers. The industry isn't permitted to make a profit on basic coverage (similar to the non-profits in the insurance exchange that is included in both our bills) but it can profit from selling extended coverage.

Therefore, Switzerland not only has 'universal health care,' it also spends much less than we do on health care as a percentage of GDP. Having everyone covered in one way or another is key to holding down costs. That we don't have 'universal health care' is part of the reason our cost is highest in the world.

That's only one way to provide 'universal health care,' but it is a way, and it does work.

And the Swiss model would satisfy the two opposing factions in our health care debate: Everyone is personally responsible for their own insurance, not the government, which U.S. conservatives like. And everyone has access to affordable, appropriate health care, an assurance that U.S. liberals want.

 

[AnnECUCherry]

And what really bothers me about the left's 'kill the bill' position is that these people are haranguing about the insurance industry and making philosophical statements about "reform" and "THE public option" (which has taken on a life not reflected by its fairly lowly status among the president's campaign proposals on health care) from the safety of being among the insured.

The people the bill was intended to help -- the tens of millions of uninsured Americans -- would be hurt by the failure of Congress to pass this bill.

Doesn't anybody among the 'kill the bill' left remember who and what we were fighting for? We can help these people now, with the provisions in the bills that will enable them to obtain health insurance, which is the gateway to health care services in this nation.

It's easy for Howard Dean to talk about prolonging the time until a more 'perfect' health care bill is delivered by Congress. Same with Keith Olbermann and Jane Hamsher. They all have health insurance now. They are fighting their war for the perfect on the backs on the tens of millions of uninsured Americans who will be SOL for years if we don't enact a health care bill now.

 

[PatekPhilippe]

I am not for this plan BECAUSE of the mandatory requirement and because there is no Public Option to compete with the insurance companies which makes this nothing but a cash cow GIFT HORSE for the insurance companies.

The insurance exchange will offer insurance policies provided by non-profits.

And the only way to keep overall cost down is for everyone to be covered. That is how all the other industrialized nations manage to keep their health care costs lower than ours.

Sorry....Ann....you are incorrect. Other nations keep their healthcare costs down by refusing to pay Doctors for what their services are worth on the open market and government subsidies. Nothing more...nothing less.

 

[PatekPhilippe]

Same here and it's the same with Howard Dean (Who now BTW has changed his view ) but of course Conservative's twist it to make it look like Dean was against it for their Reasons.

Either way, I am against this bill becouse the Majority of AMERICANS are against it..

You make yourself appear to be a sheep with this reasoning....if the majority of American's were for jumping off the George Washington bridge without any safety equipment or nets..would you follow suit? Come up with your own reasons for making a political decision...don't just follow what everyone else does because it's "popular". America is a Nation of individuals who enjoy our freedoms.

 

[Zoom-boing]

Either way, I am against this bill becouse the Majority of AMERICANS are against it..

You make yourself appear to be a sheep with this reasoning....if the majority of American's were for jumping off the George Washington bridge without any safety equipment or nets..would you follow suit? Come up with your own reasons for making a political decision...don't just follow what everyone else does because it's "popular". America is a Nation of individuals who enjoy our freedoms.

The quote things are messed up in your post, PP. I never said 'I'm against it because the majority of Americans are against it', YoungLefty did. The quotes are correct in this post. Just clarifying.

 

[Cal]

Either way, I am against this bill becouse the Majority of AMERICANS are against it..

You make yourself appear to be a sheep with this reasoning....if the majority of American's were for jumping off the George Washington bridge without any safety equipment or nets..would you follow suit? Come up with your own reasons for making a political decision...don't just follow what everyone else does because it's "popular". America is a Nation of individuals who enjoy our freedoms.

^^.

I was stated one of many of my reasons for oppisition to this bill..

 

[AnnECUCherry]

I am not for this plan BECAUSE of the mandatory requirement and because there is no Public Option to compete with the insurance companies which makes this nothing but a cash cow GIFT HORSE for the insurance companies.

The insurance exchange will offer insurance policies provided by non-profits.

And the only way to keep overall cost down is for everyone to be covered. That is how all the other industrialized nations manage to keep their health care costs lower than ours.

Sorry....Ann....you are incorrect. Other nations keep their healthcare costs down by refusing to pay Doctors for what their services are worth on the open market and government subsidies. Nothing more...nothing less.

Nope, not true at all. That's just the typical "corporations are good, greed is good" attitude we've come to expect from the right.

Other industrialized nations have plenty of doctors. Some have a better doctor-to-citizen ratio than we do.

Were the situation so intolerable, so many of their citizens wouldn't opt to go to med school and become physicians and these nations would have too few doctors.

However, that isn't the case.

Look how far down the list you have to go to find the U.S. on a list of countries in order of doctor-to-patient ratio. Are you surprised that Cuba has the best ratio in the world? You shouldn't be. Cuba puts a premium on medical training.

Cuba 170
Belarus 220
Belgium 220
Greece 230
Russia 230
Georgia 240
Italy 240
Turkmenistan 240
Ukraine 240
Lithuania 250
Uruguay 270
Bulgaria 280
Iceland 280
Kazakhstan 280
Switzerland 280
Portugal 290
France 300
Germany 300
Hungary 300
South Korea 300
Spain 300
Denmark 310
Sweden 310
Finland 320
Netherlands 320
Norway 320
Argentina 330
Latvia 330
Ireland 360
Uzbekistan 360
Mongolia 380
United States 390

...

185 – The Patients Per Doctor Map of the World « Strange Maps

 

[AnnECUCherry]

Same here and it's the same with Howard Dean (Who now BTW has changed his view ) but of course Conservative's twist it to make it look like Dean was against it for their Reasons.

He's for it now? I hadn't heard that. So it's another 'he was against it before he was for it' deals. Wonder how much $$$ he sucked out of them.

I don't see that the conservatives were painting HeeHawHoward as being against it for the same reasons; just the opposite. Here's a far left, here's far right, and here's middle of the road . . . all opposed. Hmmm, maybe Barry is a bit of a uniter after all.

I thought I had seen an article stating he had changed his mind but I must have been mistaken.

Either way, I am against this bill becouse the Majority of AMERICANS are against it..That along with the fact it's a huge givaway to the Insurance companies. If there was some kind of an option (Public Option or Medicare Buy In) the majority supports it (56%) and so do I. But becouse of idiotic Senetors who are sell-outs to big insurance companies we will most likely never get real reform.

I thought I had seen an article stating he had changed his mind but I must have been mistaken

Nope, you weren't mistaken. I finally found it:

Dean No Longer Urging Dems To ‘Kill’ The Bill: ‘Let’s See What They Add To This Bill And Make It Work’

This morning, Howard Dean walked back from earlier statements encouraging Democrats to “kill” the Senate health care bill. On Thursday, Dean wrote that “this bill would do more harm than good to the future of America,” but during his appearance on Meet The Press, Dean argued that yesterday’s manager’s amendment significantly improved the legislation. “I would let this thing go to conference committee and let’s see if we can fix it some more,” Dean said:

Well, let’s start with the positive things. Over the last week, there were things that were improved. There were some cost containment mechanisms that were gutted. They got restored. I would certainly not vote for this bill if this were the final product, but there are, the House bill is quite a good bill. This bill has improved over the last couple of weeks, I would let this thing go to conference committee and let’s see if we can fix it some more…so there are a lot of things that need to be fixed, but if they are fixed you may actually get the foundation of a bill, coming out of the House. If most of the House provisions survive, then we can have a bill that we could work with….I hope this isn’t the compromise that’s been achieved. I think we have yet to see the compromise that we could achieve....

Think Progress » Dean No Longer Urging Dems To ‘Kill’ The Bill: ‘Let’s See What They Add To This Bill And Make It Work’


Good catch, YoungLefty!

 

[Cal]

He's for it now? I hadn't heard that. So it's another 'he was against it before he was for it' deals. Wonder how much $$$ he sucked out of them.

I don't see that the conservatives were painting HeeHawHoward as being against it for the same reasons; just the opposite. Here's a far left, here's far right, and here's middle of the road . . . all opposed. Hmmm, maybe Barry is a bit of a uniter after all.

I thought I had seen an article stating he had changed his mind but I must have been mistaken.

Either way, I am against this bill becouse the Majority of AMERICANS are against it..That along with the fact it's a huge givaway to the Insurance companies. If there was some kind of an option (Public Option or Medicare Buy In) the majority supports it (56%) and so do I. But becouse of idiotic Senetors who are sell-outs to big insurance companies we will most likely never get real reform.

I thought I had seen an article stating he had changed his mind but I must have been mistaken

Nope, you weren't mistaken. I finally found it:

Dean No Longer Urging Dems To ‘Kill’ The Bill: ‘Let’s See What They Add To This Bill And Make It Work’

This morning, Howard Dean walked back from earlier statements encouraging Democrats to “kill” the Senate health care bill. On Thursday, Dean wrote that “this bill would do more harm than good to the future of America,” but during his appearance on Meet The Press, Dean argued that yesterday’s manager’s amendment significantly improved the legislation. “I would let this thing go to conference committee and let’s see if we can fix it some more,” Dean said:

Well, let’s start with the positive things. Over the last week, there were things that were improved. There were some cost containment mechanisms that were gutted. They got restored. I would certainly not vote for this bill if this were the final product, but there are, the House bill is quite a good bill. This bill has improved over the last couple of weeks, I would let this thing go to conference committee and let’s see if we can fix it some more…so there are a lot of things that need to be fixed, but if they are fixed you may actually get the foundation of a bill, coming out of the House. If most of the House provisions survive, then we can have a bill that we could work with….I hope this isn’t the compromise that’s been achieved. I think we have yet to see the compromise that we could achieve....

Think Progress » Dean No Longer Urging Dems To ‘Kill’ The Bill: ‘Let’s See What They Add To This Bill And Make It Work’


Good catch, YoungLefty!

Knew I seen it somewhere.