How would this have gone differently if guns were illegal?

[frigidweirdo]

Who knows. What's the murder rate in the UK and Canada again?

Higher than Switzerland.

You have to understand Switzerland. It's not a country with people walking around with guns all over the place. People have guns locked away in their homes. They do, occasionally, have people go nuts with guns, however.

Also, they have a higher GDP, it also has better income equality, it actually looks after its people, has better education and its politics isn't blatantly partisan with big money controlling everything.

Basically Switzerland is a better country to live in, and as such sees lower crime in general.

Until they import violent people from 3rd world countries like the rest of Europe......

Do you really want to go there, last time you ended up resorting to insults. I'm not willing to discuss anything with you unless you start acting like a decent human being.

 

[defcon4]

It really boggles my mind when liberals honestly want to suggest that it's even possible to eliminate guns from the country. Pass a law if it makes you feel good. Go door to door and round up every single gun you find. Let's fly across the galaxy in the starship Enterprise and find Q and beg him to snap his fingers and make all the guns disappear.

But what is going to stop someone from making their own guns?

But then again, you don't need to eliminate guns, just reduce them down to a level where they stop being so much of a threat, like in Europe. 4.7 times less murders in the UK, and that's one of the worst countries in Europe.

It is very interesting it bring up all the time Europe…Europe…Europe... Like it were a "standard" everybody must go by. As I recall the USA was founded on rejecting there "European model" None of those countries have in their constitutions "...the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not her infringed.."

 

[frigidweirdo]

It is very interesting it bring up all the time Europe…Europe…Europe... Like it were a "standard" everybody must go by. As I recall the USA was founded on rejecting there "European model" None of those countries have in their constitutions "...the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not her infringed.."

People compare the US with Europe because they both first world countries.

I understand why you have a problem with this, because the US's murder rate, gun problems etc are basically appalling.

The US didn't reject the "European model", they rejected the European model of 1776, which, er.... all countries in Europe have actually rejected too.

No, none of these countries have the right to keep and bear arms in their constitutions and none of them have a murder rate of 4.7 either.

 

[defcon4]

It is very interesting it bring up all the time Europe…Europe…Europe... Like it were a "standard" everybody must go by. As I recall the USA was founded on rejecting there "European model" None of those countries have in their constitutions "...the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not her infringed.."

People compare the US with Europe because they both first world countries.

I understand why you have a problem with this, because the US's murder rate, gun problems etc are basically appalling.

The US didn't reject the "European model", they rejected the European model of 1776, which, er.... all countries in Europe have actually rejected too.

No, none of these countries have the right to keep and bear arms in their constitutions and none of them have a murder rate of 4.7 either.

I could never understood people who did not like the Constitution thus always tried to change it. What is the motive? They could have just moved to somewhere according to their heart's desire to be subjects.

 

[SwimExpert]

It really boggles my mind when liberals honestly want to suggest that it's even possible to eliminate guns from the country. Pass a law if it makes you feel good. Go door to door and round up every single gun you find. Let's fly across the galaxy in the starship Enterprise and find Q and beg him to snap his fingers and make all the guns disappear.

But what is going to stop someone from making their own guns?

But then again, you don't need to eliminate guns, just reduce them down to a level where they stop being so much of a threat, like in Europe. 4.7 times less murders in the UK, and that's one of the worst countries in Europe.

And yet in Switzerland, it's guns, guns, everywhere and the crime rate is even less.

 

[mdainvegas]

Stop and frisk works well? Gun control without confiscation will never work.

 

[SwimExpert]

It is very interesting it bring up all the time Europe…Europe…Europe... Like it were a "standard" everybody must go by. As I recall the USA was founded on rejecting there "European model" None of those countries have in their constitutions "...the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not her infringed.."

People compare the US with Europe because they both first world countries.

I understand why you have a problem with this, because the US's murder rate, gun problems etc are basically appalling.

The US didn't reject the "European model", they rejected the European model of 1776, which, er.... all countries in Europe have actually rejected too.

No, none of these countries have the right to keep and bear arms in their constitutions and none of them have a murder rate of 4.7 either.

None of them have unicorns either. Perhaps it's the unicorns that are to blame.

 

[frigidweirdo]

It is very interesting it bring up all the time Europe…Europe…Europe... Like it were a "standard" everybody must go by. As I recall the USA was founded on rejecting there "European model" None of those countries have in their constitutions "...the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not her infringed.."

People compare the US with Europe because they both first world countries.

I understand why you have a problem with this, because the US's murder rate, gun problems etc are basically appalling.

The US didn't reject the "European model", they rejected the European model of 1776, which, er.... all countries in Europe have actually rejected too.

No, none of these countries have the right to keep and bear arms in their constitutions and none of them have a murder rate of 4.7 either.

I could never understood people who did not like the Constitution thus always tried to change it. What is the motive? They could have just moved to somewhere according to their heart's desire to be subjects.

Oh come off it. Most people in the US treat the constitution as malleable anyway. The 2A, for example, many just decide it gives a right to carry arms, they'll ignore anything and everything to have themselves proven right.

The right talks about how they're pro-Bill of Rights and then demand that Muslims can't speak and all this nonsense. The left isn't better either.

 

[frigidweirdo]

It is very interesting it bring up all the time Europe…Europe…Europe... Like it were a "standard" everybody must go by. As I recall the USA was founded on rejecting there "European model" None of those countries have in their constitutions "...the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not her infringed.."

People compare the US with Europe because they both first world countries.

I understand why you have a problem with this, because the US's murder rate, gun problems etc are basically appalling.

The US didn't reject the "European model", they rejected the European model of 1776, which, er.... all countries in Europe have actually rejected too.

No, none of these countries have the right to keep and bear arms in their constitutions and none of them have a murder rate of 4.7 either.

None of them have unicorns either. Perhaps it's the unicorns that are to blame.

Anything sensible to say?

 

[frigidweirdo]

It really boggles my mind when liberals honestly want to suggest that it's even possible to eliminate guns from the country. Pass a law if it makes you feel good. Go door to door and round up every single gun you find. Let's fly across the galaxy in the starship Enterprise and find Q and beg him to snap his fingers and make all the guns disappear.

But what is going to stop someone from making their own guns?

But then again, you don't need to eliminate guns, just reduce them down to a level where they stop being so much of a threat, like in Europe. 4.7 times less murders in the UK, and that's one of the worst countries in Europe.

And yet in Switzerland, it's guns, guns, everywhere and the crime rate is even less.

What do you mean by "it's guns, guns, everywhere"?

Again, have you actually been to Switzerland?

 

[westwall]

Yes, you do. You also have a predominantly Caucasian population. One that has been decimated by two world wars in one hundred years. The aggressive ones were killed off. And, more to the point the violence in Europe is increasing. In the face of the strictest anti gun laws in the world, their gun crime rate is increasing. Overall they are more violent than the US, especially the UK. They haven't caught up to us in murders yet, but they will, sadly.

This isn't about race. Racial tension yes, but not race itself. Racial tension in the US is a massive factor in crime, and the govt is doing almost nothing to solve the problem.

Switzerland hasn't been decimated in two world wars, in fact they didn't participate in either with troops.

Violence in Europe isn't necessarily increasing. There have been increases but in general the governments are dealing with the problems and doing so in a manner that doesn't stick half the population in prison (over exaggeration in case you were wondering). There are still problems, but no where near the problems the US has.

Gun crime isn't necessarily increasing. It has increased as it becomes easier to get guns from outside into Europe, however gun crime in, say, London where there was a problem, has dropped in recent years. Different areas of Europe have different ways of dealing with things, however I'd feel much safer in any big European city than any big US city.

You say there are more violent crimes in the UK than the US. I'm going to dispute this.
I've had a conversation with a guy on here, and it basically turns out that only the statistics are higher in the UK than the US. The reality is the UK is more likely to include crimes in violent crime, and a crime like rape is far more likely to be reported in the UK than the US, therefore pumping up the statistics.

The estimates, as that is all we have, is that US rape is probably slightly higher than rape in the UK. But the stats are much lower because the US are literally not being pro-active about dealing with rape. The US is a white man's world.

The US government has adopted policies that ensure racial hatred and violence will increase. It's all part of the divide and conquer mentality that progressives have. Unity is never their goal. They only thrive when people are miserable and at each others throats.

Switzerland is expensive as hell to live in, and 99.5% Caucasian.

Violence in Europe is increasing at a rapid rate. What planet do you live on again? The UK is leading the pack.. They witnessed a 77% increase in violent crime over a period of a few years thanks to progressive policies.

"Analysis of figures from the European Commission showed a 77 per cent increase in murders, robberies, assaults and sexual offences in the UK since Labour came to power.
The total number of violent offences recorded compared to population is higher than any other country in Europe, as well as America, Canada, Australia and South Africa.
Opposition leaders said the disclosures were a "damning indictment" of the Government's failure to tackle deep-rooted social problems.
The figures combined crime statistics for England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.
The UK had a greater number of murders in 2007 than any other EU country – 927 – and at a relative rate higher than most western European neighbours, including France, Germany, Italy and Spain."

UK is violent crime capital of Europe - Telegraph

Gun crime in the US is decreasing, save in progressive controlled cities. There it is either increasing or holding steady.

 

[westwall]

It is very interesting it bring up all the time Europe…Europe…Europe... Like it were a "standard" everybody must go by. As I recall the USA was founded on rejecting there "European model" None of those countries have in their constitutions "...the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not her infringed.."

People compare the US with Europe because they both first world countries.

I understand why you have a problem with this, because the US's murder rate, gun problems etc are basically appalling.

The US didn't reject the "European model", they rejected the European model of 1776, which, er.... all countries in Europe have actually rejected too.

No, none of these countries have the right to keep and bear arms in their constitutions and none of them have a murder rate of 4.7 either.

Both First World, but different in so many ways. Europe has a predominantly Caucasian population and is much smaller in area and population than the US. The overwhelming majority of murders occur in progressive controlled cities and are black on black, or Hispanic on Hispanic. And 80% of those are gang related. You are painting a whole country based on the actions of several thousand gangbangers who live in cities with no hope of advancement because they are encouraged to remain the way they are.

 

[2aguy]

It is very interesting it bring up all the time Europe…Europe…Europe... Like it were a "standard" everybody must go by. As I recall the USA was founded on rejecting there "European model" None of those countries have in their constitutions "...the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not her infringed.."

People compare the US with Europe because they both first world countries.

I understand why you have a problem with this, because the US's murder rate, gun problems etc are basically appalling.

The US didn't reject the "European model", they rejected the European model of 1776, which, er.... all countries in Europe have actually rejected too.

No, none of these countries have the right to keep and bear arms in their constitutions and none of them have a murder rate of 4.7 either.

except for that period between 1939 and 1945 when the nations of Europe, the most advanced nations on earth at the time...marched their citizens into German death camps to be murdered...France and others did so...to the toll of 12 million murdered men, women and children......and that wasn't war dead....it was handing over their people for murder...

and not one of them was able to fight back because they were all disarmed.......

averaged out to today...we still haven't caught up to their annual murder rate because of their governments allowing their people to be murdered...

and again...the most advanced countries in the world sent actual troops to Rwanda to keep the peace....and the troops of the most advanced countries in the world did nothing to prevent the machete deaths of close to 800,000 people......

those people were disarmed too......

and that doesn't include the muder of 100 million other people by socialists around the world...also disarmed people....

See a pattern yet?


And right now, on our southern border Mexican police and soldiers, working with vicious drug cartels are raping, torturing and murdering disarmed Mexican citizens by the thousands.......

See that pattern yet......?

And every day in this country Americans use guns to stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives....while in Britain....a country with 2 times the violent crime rate that we have, their governmnet tells them to submit quietly...that they cannot resist a violent criminal attacker in anyway that might harm the attacker......I have that link.....

8,454 gun murders, in a country of over 320 million people....not a problem....

vs. 2 million defensive uses of guns each year.....abig positive......

 

[2aguy]

It is very interesting it bring up all the time Europe…Europe…Europe... Like it were a "standard" everybody must go by. As I recall the USA was founded on rejecting there "European model" None of those countries have in their constitutions "...the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not her infringed.."

People compare the US with Europe because they both first world countries.

I understand why you have a problem with this, because the US's murder rate, gun problems etc are basically appalling.

The US didn't reject the "European model", they rejected the European model of 1776, which, er.... all countries in Europe have actually rejected too.

No, none of these countries have the right to keep and bear arms in their constitutions and none of them have a murder rate of 4.7 either.

I could never understood people who did not like the Constitution thus always tried to change it. What is the motive? They could have just moved to somewhere according to their heart's desire to be subjects.

Oh come off it. Most people in the US treat the constitution as malleable anyway. The 2A, for example, many just decide it gives a right to carry arms, they'll ignore anything and everything to have themselves proven right.

The right talks about how they're pro-Bill of Rights and then demand that Muslims can't speak and all this nonsense. The left isn't better either.

Since when....you can't swing a beheaded dead cat without hitting a muslim bitching about non existnt persecution here in the U.S......

 

[2aguy]

It really boggles my mind when liberals honestly want to suggest that it's even possible to eliminate guns from the country. Pass a law if it makes you feel good. Go door to door and round up every single gun you find. Let's fly across the galaxy in the starship Enterprise and find Q and beg him to snap his fingers and make all the guns disappear.

But what is going to stop someone from making their own guns?

But then again, you don't need to eliminate guns, just reduce them down to a level where they stop being so much of a threat, like in Europe. 4.7 times less murders in the UK, and that's one of the worst countries in Europe.

And yet in Switzerland, it's guns, guns, everywhere and the crime rate is even less.

What do you mean by "it's guns, guns, everywhere"?

Again, have you actually been to Switzerland?

Do you deny that the average swiss citizen has a select fire military rifle in their home.........and don't give me that crap about not having ammo.....they can get ammo if they want it...and their crime rate is still low...for now....but the importation of 3rd world people from violent countries is changing that.

 

[2aguy]

According to liberal VICE t.v. Puerto Rico has the strictest gun control in the United States and it's terrotories, it is an Island nation so you can't simply cross a border to get a gun...and it has the highest gun murder rate in the world.......

culture, not guns are the issue...

the criminal gang culture in democrat cities are our problem.....and the fact that prosecutors and judges do not lock up gun criminals in this countryl...I posted about how gangs in Chicago pick their aldermen....who then protect their gangs....and how around the country prosecutors and judges are letting gun criminals off lightly for repeated weapons violations....

You explain that to me? Why are they letting gun criminals off so easily to go out and kill again.....I posted about these criminals...out in 18 months for gun crimes when they should get a 3 year sentence.......and why only 3 years....known criminals committing gun crimes should get over 10 per offense on top of whatever other crime they do...

That will lower the gun murder rate...nothing else will.

 

[frigidweirdo]

The US government has adopted policies that ensure racial hatred and violence will increase. It's all part of the divide and conquer mentality that progressives have. Unity is never their goal. They only thrive when people are miserable and at each others throats.

Switzerland is expensive as hell to live in, and 99.5% Caucasian.

Violence in Europe is increasing at a rapid rate. What planet do you live on again? The UK is leading the pack.. They witnessed a 77% increase in violent crime over a period of a few years thanks to progressive policies.

"Analysis of figures from the European Commission showed a 77 per cent increase in murders, robberies, assaults and sexual offences in the UK since Labour came to power.
The total number of violent offences recorded compared to population is higher than any other country in Europe, as well as America, Canada, Australia and South Africa.
Opposition leaders said the disclosures were a "damning indictment" of the Government's failure to tackle deep-rooted social problems.
The figures combined crime statistics for England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.
The UK had a greater number of murders in 2007 than any other EU country – 927 – and at a relative rate higher than most western European neighbours, including France, Germany, Italy and Spain."

UK is violent crime capital of Europe - Telegraph

Gun crime in the US is decreasing, save in progressive controlled cities. There it is either increasing or holding steady.

You just say a few things then shove in "progressives" every so often.

Do you know what the biggest problem in the US is right now? Both the Republicans and Democrats. Don't kid yourself that the republican policies are in any way designed to unite people. They're policies will only unite people if everyone stops supporting the democrats and loves the Republicans, and it isn't going to happen, is it?

Basically both sides spend their whole time fighting each other and as little to no time actually trying to find out what is the way to make things actually work.

As for the UK and Europe. Yes, the UK went through a period of a rise in crime. This was generally due to a rise in gangs from other countries, mostly Jamaica, coming in and changing how crime was being conducted in the UK. However what the police and government did was tackle the problem, and the problem is being reduced. In the US all that would have happened would be each side would have slagged each other off for causing the problem and done nothing about it.

UK crime rates have been going down for more than 10 years.

Yes, the UK has a higher murder rate than many European countries. Norway had, in one set of stats a more than double murder rate, however I get the feeling that was because of that one killing that took place in 2011.
However the "really high" murder rate in the UK is 1.0 per 100,000. Compared to a range of about 0.6 to 1.0 being the norm for European countries. Compared to 4.7 for the US, or 10.8 for Louisiana, or 4.6 for Alaska.

You say gun stats are going down. Alaska's isn't. Their 4.6 is up from 3.1 in 2009.

Louisana's is up from 1999 when it was 10.7, it goes up, comes down, goes up, comes down. It's lower than the 1990s when it was getting up to 20, however it isn't going below 10 where it was in the 1960s.

Then again a state like New York is seeing murder rates at "only" 3.3 which has been going down, or Connecticut which is at 2.4 and has been dropping after a rise around 2010.
Seems a lot of the murder rate in the US is dropping because of more liberal states seeing more of a drop.

As for UK violent crime states. Again, the UK reports a lot more than the US, it's difficult to compare.

 

[frigidweirdo]

It is very interesting it bring up all the time Europe…Europe…Europe... Like it were a "standard" everybody must go by. As I recall the USA was founded on rejecting there "European model" None of those countries have in their constitutions "...the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not her infringed.."

People compare the US with Europe because they both first world countries.

I understand why you have a problem with this, because the US's murder rate, gun problems etc are basically appalling.

The US didn't reject the "European model", they rejected the European model of 1776, which, er.... all countries in Europe have actually rejected too.

No, none of these countries have the right to keep and bear arms in their constitutions and none of them have a murder rate of 4.7 either.

Both First World, but different in so many ways. Europe has a predominantly Caucasian population and is much smaller in area and population than the US. The overwhelming majority of murders occur in progressive controlled cities and are black on black, or Hispanic on Hispanic. And 80% of those are gang related. You are painting a whole country based on the actions of several thousand gangbangers who live in cities with no hope of advancement because they are encouraged to remain the way they are.

Of course they're different. But then Britain is different to Spain, or to other countries.
Europe has a larger population than the US. The EU is about 400 million compared to the US's 300 million, it has a lot more languages, it has historical issues all over the place, Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales, Belgium, Catalonia, Basque Country, Galicia, Canary Islands, Corsica, hell I could go on all day.

Yes, a lot of murders happen that are gang related. That doesn't mean they're acceptable. That doesn't mean they're good. Why does all this gang crime exist? It exists because no one gives a damn about solving the problem. Some politician comes along (or someone on a forum like this) and makes dumb statements like "everyone in America can make it with hard work" and then sets about to get paid loads of money for not solving the problem because they've already given themselves an excuse for doing sweet FA.

I'm painting the whole country for what it is. It's a country of "can't do, won't do". Rich people who control the country who seem to actually encourage poor inner city areas, the right do it so they can be tough on crime, the left doesn't seem to do much either. Some do. Some are in it to help. But many aren't.

 

[westwall]

The US government has adopted policies that ensure racial hatred and violence will increase. It's all part of the divide and conquer mentality that progressives have. Unity is never their goal. They only thrive when people are miserable and at each others throats.

Switzerland is expensive as hell to live in, and 99.5% Caucasian.

Violence in Europe is increasing at a rapid rate. What planet do you live on again? The UK is leading the pack.. They witnessed a 77% increase in violent crime over a period of a few years thanks to progressive policies.

"Analysis of figures from the European Commission showed a 77 per cent increase in murders, robberies, assaults and sexual offences in the UK since Labour came to power.
The total number of violent offences recorded compared to population is higher than any other country in Europe, as well as America, Canada, Australia and South Africa.
Opposition leaders said the disclosures were a "damning indictment" of the Government's failure to tackle deep-rooted social problems.
The figures combined crime statistics for England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.
The UK had a greater number of murders in 2007 than any other EU country – 927 – and at a relative rate higher than most western European neighbours, including France, Germany, Italy and Spain."

UK is violent crime capital of Europe - Telegraph

Gun crime in the US is decreasing, save in progressive controlled cities. There it is either increasing or holding steady.

You just say a few things then shove in "progressives" every so often.

Do you know what the biggest problem in the US is right now? Both the Republicans and Democrats. Don't kid yourself that the republican policies are in any way designed to unite people. They're policies will only unite people if everyone stops supporting the democrats and loves the Republicans, and it isn't going to happen, is it?

Basically both sides spend their whole time fighting each other and as little to no time actually trying to find out what is the way to make things actually work.

As for the UK and Europe. Yes, the UK went through a period of a rise in crime. This was generally due to a rise in gangs from other countries, mostly Jamaica, coming in and changing how crime was being conducted in the UK. However what the police and government did was tackle the problem, and the problem is being reduced. In the US all that would have happened would be each side would have slagged each other off for causing the problem and done nothing about it.

UK crime rates have been going down for more than 10 years.

Yes, the UK has a higher murder rate than many European countries. Norway had, in one set of stats a more than double murder rate, however I get the feeling that was because of that one killing that took place in 2011.
However the "really high" murder rate in the UK is 1.0 per 100,000. Compared to a range of about 0.6 to 1.0 being the norm for European countries. Compared to 4.7 for the US, or 10.8 for Louisiana, or 4.6 for Alaska.

You say gun stats are going down. Alaska's isn't. Their 4.6 is up from 3.1 in 2009.

Louisana's is up from 1999 when it was 10.7, it goes up, comes down, goes up, comes down. It's lower than the 1990s when it was getting up to 20, however it isn't going below 10 where it was in the 1960s.

Then again a state like New York is seeing murder rates at "only" 3.3 which has been going down, or Connecticut which is at 2.4 and has been dropping after a rise around 2010.
Seems a lot of the murder rate in the US is dropping because of more liberal states seeing more of a drop.

As for UK violent crime states. Again, the UK reports a lot more than the US, it's difficult to compare.

The crime rate in the UK has been rising for the last 25 years. The "dip" in reported crimes came when the Metropolitan Police decided to classify all crimes at a single address as one crime. So, take your average apartment block. 18 crimes go down there in a weekend. According to the police that is ONE crime.



Police did alter crime figures, admits Met chief Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe

"Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe told MPs that the preliminary results of an internal inquiry had already indicated that some of the allegations by Met Pc James Patrick that crimes such as burglary and rape had been wrongly downgraded or written off were accurate.

Sir Bernard’s admission came during a tense appearance in front of the Commons Public Administration Committee during which he also admitted to inadvertently misquoting a report he had written himself."

Police did alter crime figures admits Met chief Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe - Crime - News - London Evening Standard

 

[westwall]

It is very interesting it bring up all the time Europe…Europe…Europe... Like it were a "standard" everybody must go by. As I recall the USA was founded on rejecting there "European model" None of those countries have in their constitutions "...the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not her infringed.."

People compare the US with Europe because they both first world countries.

I understand why you have a problem with this, because the US's murder rate, gun problems etc are basically appalling.

The US didn't reject the "European model", they rejected the European model of 1776, which, er.... all countries in Europe have actually rejected too.

No, none of these countries have the right to keep and bear arms in their constitutions and none of them have a murder rate of 4.7 either.

Both First World, but different in so many ways. Europe has a predominantly Caucasian population and is much smaller in area and population than the US. The overwhelming majority of murders occur in progressive controlled cities and are black on black, or Hispanic on Hispanic. And 80% of those are gang related. You are painting a whole country based on the actions of several thousand gangbangers who live in cities with no hope of advancement because they are encouraged to remain the way they are.

Of course they're different. But then Britain is different to Spain, or to other countries.
Europe has a larger population than the US. The EU is about 400 million compared to the US's 300 million, it has a lot more languages, it has historical issues all over the place, Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales, Belgium, Catalonia, Basque Country, Galicia, Canary Islands, Corsica, hell I could go on all day.

Yes, a lot of murders happen that are gang related. That doesn't mean they're acceptable. That doesn't mean they're good. Why does all this gang crime exist? It exists because no one gives a damn about solving the problem. Some politician comes along (or someone on a forum like this) and makes dumb statements like "everyone in America can make it with hard work" and then sets about to get paid loads of money for not solving the problem because they've already given themselves an excuse for doing sweet FA.

I'm painting the whole country for what it is. It's a country of "can't do, won't do". Rich people who control the country who seem to actually encourage poor inner city areas, the right do it so they can be tough on crime, the left doesn't seem to do much either. Some do. Some are in it to help. But many aren't.

Spain is slightly different thanks to the Moorish influence. The rest of Europe is mono cultural. Same religions, same ethnicity, same likes, same dislikes, same, same, same. It's hard to hate someone when they are basically the same as you.

My point is so long as you count gang related murders you get a skewed view of crime in the USA. I am not saying it's good or acceptable, I am saying that GANGS DON'T FOLLOW LAWS! Thus, any law you pass will affect only the law abiding and you will make the law abiding easy prey for the lawless.

A thinking person would wonder why every politician and rich person who is trying to take your guns away....is protected by people with guns.

If they truly believed their bullshit they would have no need of ARMED PRIVATE SECURITY details.

Now would they?