How will it end??

[Annie]

Ya know Issac, have to agree, would rather go down for the right stuff than 'stay on top' with the wrong. Right now, backing the UN or extreme Islam is wrong. Sorry, it's the truth. So go down swinging.

 

[Isaac Brock]

Originally posted by Kathianne
Originally posted by Isaac Brock:

B. Remove the reason why people become terrorists

You know Issac, there really isn't the magic bullet for reasons. Some are more than middle class, while some are poor. Their reasons are not discernable by us.

Very true, but that's not to say there aren't reasons. The world is always full of crazy, vile men and women. However, to incite what are normally rational, normal people to their cause has a foundation.
Point-and-case: Nazism turned normal Germans into ethnocentric barbarians. However, Nazism would have never risen if it wasn't for the punishing economic and politcal climate of the 1920 and 30's in Germany. Hitler may have existed, but certainly not exalted to the historical extent.

With terrorism, we have rich nut cases such as bin Laden. However, they drive ordinary muslims into terrorist cells due to lack of education and social inequity in their countries. How many terrorists have your heard coming from the rich countries and "relatively" stable countries of UAE, Brunei or Turkey (though the later is involved was Greece and I'd argue it is in the realms of nationalism rather than religious terrorism or Kurish nationalists)? Though they exist, more so with Turkey, they have no where near the popular support than in other either economically poor or socially repressed countries.

I do not suscribe to the notion that hate is universal and can arise from absolutely nothing. Though the cause may be complex, it is there. I am not be apologetic: terrorists should be removed by all means necessary, but I firmly believe that there is a cause that we can fight to remove.

 

[Annie]

Issac, wish I could agree with you, but the suicide bombers of 9/11 and Israel prove you wrong. These are middle class and higher. Many are engineers. Damn if I know why. Guess I don't understand them any better than they understand us. We will fight them.

 

[freeandfun1]

Originally posted by Isaac Brock
With terrorism, we have rich nut cases such as bin Laden. However, they drive ordinary muslims into terrorist cells due to lack of education and social inequity in their countries.

Zarkowee's father was a doctor and he was educated in Germany. Most of the 911 (if not all) hijackers came from wealthy, educated families.

Your theory holds no water. Sorry.

 

[Annie]

Well said.

 

[Isaac Brock]

Originally posted by Kathianne
Issac, wish I could agree with you, but the suicide bombers of 9/11 and Israel prove you wrong. These are middle class and higher. Many are engineers. Damn if I know why. Guess I don't understand them any better than they understand us. We will fight them.

I understand your line of thinking Kathianne perfectly and I understand how you perceive terrorism. I still believe although not always evident there are still conditions that exist that push people this way. Only time itself will tell which one of us is right, but in the hopes of ending this sad part of our history and rid ourselves of terrorist once and for all, I hope I'm right.

 

[Annie]

Ok Issac, I'll agree that as far as the Palistinians go, those that dip their hands in the corpses may be of the lower socioeconomic strata. In Iraq, they are the kids that cheer around the blown up Humvees.

Your point is? They are not the leaders, but the tags of the deed. Those that are committing the deed are higher and why? No doubt, Atta could have earned a decent living in SA, why did he blow himself up, but for Allaha? Virgins? What?

 

[NewGuy]

How is this for different:

We cant/wont win. -AND it will be over very soon.

It goes like this:

The terrorism will build. Israel will look like a villan because they will dip into this battle more and more yet look like they are equally as bad as the terrorists themselves. Meanwhile, the EU is courting the palestinians, and setting up the tie-downs for Israel politically and economically.

What happens next is the US slips further and further into our socialism in partnering by submission to the EU while appearing to withdraw from all UN or NATO alliances. While we do this, our economy continues to weaken against the Euro, and our military continues to over extend. The economy continues in an extremely slow gain, but over all in perspective with the EU, we are falling rapidly. The debts our nation has continue to grow to fund our troops.

The EU starts gobbling up utilities and little bits of land here and there in the US. We admit we have a spending problem but see no answer. The EU now partially owns the US and pretty well buys us and owns us like a franchise. -Similar to a US/Puerto Rico deal. Terrorism becomes hot everywhere, and a peace agreement must be made with the mideast since millions of people vanished in one fell swoop deemed to be related to terrorism, but nobody really knows what happened. The US is now impotent and not respected. -We also bow to the EU. The world is now against Israel.

Israel is met by a guy from the EU who signs a peace deal and institutes his new world economic structure utilizing a cashless society. It is necessary since America has fubarred world economics quite nicely with its debt and the EU needs to be profitable now since the aquisition. The world will go along with it since the US and EU agree and nobody can stand in the way. Seeing a peace agreement signed for 7 years in the mideast, some begin to wonder how the guy from the EU can pull it all off. It is then he claims to be God and show some miracles to prove it. His new faith encompassing islamic law with catholocism, (catholocism would be actively promoting him as god as well), is accepted and promoted world wide since Bibles talk about Jesus's return, and islam teaches the "last day". The world, looking for a peace maker, and deeming catholocism and islam to be peaceful (with any religion potentially leading to God) will suck the whole thing up.

From here, you have a detailed explaination in revelation.

 

[freeandfun1]

Everyday it looks more and more like it is headed that way NewGuy....

What do you think of the story of the Sethites and some of the theories on who the "giants" and "Gog" really are? The book of Enoc, which was discovered, I believe, in 1948 but never added to the Bible is pretty clear on this....But it is hard for some to stomach.

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by freeandfun1
Everyday it looks more and more like it is headed that way NewGuy....

What do you think of the story of the Sethites and some of the theories on who the "giants" and "Gog" really are? The book of Enoc, which was discovered, I believe, in 1948 but never added to the Bible is pretty clear on this....But it is hard for some to stomach.

Without detailing a lot of stuff that is in that book, I have never considered it worth taking seriously. I have only looked into it lightly and then only a little bit. I know it isn't considered scripture because there wasn't solid evidence that corresponded with Biblical text already. Wether the point of giants is true or not, I don't know, but maybe I will go back and look at the book once again, this time more seriously.

 

[Isaac Brock]

Originally posted by freeandfun1
Zarkowee's father was a doctor and he was educated in Germany. Most of the 911 (if not all) hijackers came from wealthy, educated families.

Your theory holds no water. Sorry.

What about Iraq? What about Afghanistan? What about Kenya? What about Israel/Palestine? Terrorism does exist worldwide. Terrorism is not just a construct that affects the United States. If you look more closely you will realize that there is a trend. Terrorist, in general are indeed of the lower strata.

 

[Isaac Brock]

Originally posted by Kathianne
Ok Issac, I'll agree that as far as the Palistinians go, those that dip their hands in the corpses may be of the lower socioeconomic strata. In Iraq, they are the kids that cheer around the blown up Humvees.

Your point is? They are not the leaders, but the tags of the deed. Those that are committing the deed are higher and why? No doubt, Atta could have earned a decent living in SA, why did he blow himself up, but for Allaha? Virgins? What?

A good point.
Perhaps Atta truly did believe in his cause. One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. To us we think and beyond thinking, he is a terrorist, to his people he is martyr. To be honest, I do not know what motivates a man to become a martyr. Perhaps it is his interprettation of faith? His fear? His misconstrued sense of duty? Arrogance towards the immortality of his name?
However, i think it is a misnomer that reasons for one terrorist is the same for the other. I believe it is misconstrued sense of duty nad interprettation of faith, but I suppose any guess is shear speculation.

 

[preemptingyou03]

It will end when this radical sector of Islam is defeated with moderate Islam. That will only happen with democracy and capitalism.

It will end when the Middle East is free and at peace with Israel and the rest of the world and all religions.

It will end when there are no rogue states that support terrorism.

It will end when there are no organized terrorist networks.

 

[freeandfun1]

Originally posted by Isaac Brock
What about Iraq? What about Afghanistan? What about Kenya? What about Israel/Palestine? Terrorism does exist worldwide. Terrorism is not just a construct that affects the United States. If you look more closely you will realize that there is a trend. Terrorist, in general are indeed of the lower strata.

In just about all the places you mention, those participating in terrorism are not from that country. They are mostly educated, wealthy Saudis, Egyptians, Jordanians and Syrians.

 

[preemptingyou03]

The reason al-Qaeda is mostly from countries that support the US is because of just that... we support Saudi Arabia, so radical Saudis start their OWN anti-American movement.

We may see some radical Iraqis spring up in the years to come. My point is this though: freedom and captialism means success. Success means hope. And hope means peace.

 

[dilloduck]

Terrorism, however defined, requires financial support as it can have no self-generated income. The leaders of countries are not neccessarily those in charge of the countries finances. The world wide economy is not controlled by the leaders of countries. The boys with all the "gold" can create situations at will and are very adept manipulating them. They want to remain in power so they will play the world to the ends that keep them there. Follow the money.

End terrorism? Never. It would require the financial and social control by the leaders of ALL countries. Even the United States will not accept this pre-req. There will always be have-nots and those who FEEL oppressed somewhere in the world that will look to radical leaders to bring them to salvation. Believing blindly in prophecy has cause people to make mistakes and reflects a fear of the unknown.