How will history view Fox News and MSNBC

[Megatron]

My view both will get bad reviews by future generations of historians for their baised news coverage.

 

[Epsilon Delta]

They'll be viewed for what they are - vulgar propagandists.

 

[Intense]

Yet the Throne will still belong to Rather than Dan.

 

[Bfgrn]

Yet the Throne will still belong to Rather than Dan.

What? Dan Rather is an excellent journalist and an honorable man.

 

[Intense]

Yet the Throne will still belong to Rather than Dan.

What? Dan Rather is an excellent journalist and an honorable man.

I once would have believed that. Two big issues come to mind, His scheme on President Bush, and this..... Stolen Valor

Where to begin? Well, for openers, Burkett filed a Freedom of Information Act request for the military records of the famously liberal Dan Rather, then anchor of the CBS Evening News. Recalling how Rather spent much of the 1990 campaign beating up on Dan Quayle for avoiding the Vietnam draft as a member of the National Guard, Burkett gleefully discovered that Rather himself hid out from the Korean War as a member of the Reserves. When he graduated from college in 1954, after the war was safely over, Rather joined the Marines and was discharged as medically unfit after four months. Of course, this didn't stop Rather from proudly identifying himself as an ex-Marine!

This by way of preface to a CBS documentary called "The Wall Within," in which Rather and his camera team prowled the Washington woods in search of "trip-wire vets" who were so crazed by their Vietnam experience that they could not safely live in society. Guess what? They were bogus. Of the CBS poster boys for Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PSTD), most never served in Vietnam, and those who did were in non-combat roles. Some of them didn't even live in the woods. (It's not just CBS, of course. David Brinkley, Linda Ellerbee, and other television notables also take their lumps.)



Burkett: Stolen Valor: How the Vietnam Generation was Robbed of its Heroes and its History

 

[Bfgrn]

Yet the Throne will still belong to Rather than Dan.

What? Dan Rather is an excellent journalist and an honorable man.

I once would have believed that. Two big issues come to mind, His scheme on President Bush, and this..... Stolen Valor

Where to begin? Well, for openers, Burkett filed a Freedom of Information Act request for the military records of the famously liberal Dan Rather, then anchor of the CBS Evening News. Recalling how Rather spent much of the 1990 campaign beating up on Dan Quayle for avoiding the Vietnam draft as a member of the National Guard, Burkett gleefully discovered that Rather himself hid out from the Korean War as a member of the Reserves. When he graduated from college in 1954, after the war was safely over, Rather joined the Marines and was discharged as medically unfit after four months. Of course, this didn't stop Rather from proudly identifying himself as an ex-Marine!

This by way of preface to a CBS documentary called "The Wall Within," in which Rather and his camera team prowled the Washington woods in search of "trip-wire vets" who were so crazed by their Vietnam experience that they could not safely live in society. Guess what? They were bogus. Of the CBS poster boys for Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PSTD), most never served in Vietnam, and those who did were in non-combat roles. Some of them didn't even live in the woods. (It's not just CBS, of course. David Brinkley, Linda Ellerbee, and other television notables also take their lumps.)



Burkett: Stolen Valor: How the Vietnam Generation was Robbed of its Heroes and its History

B.G. Burkett kept Kerry-bashing stayin' alive on Hannity & Colmes

In an April 4 NewsMax.com article, B.G. "Jug" Burkett, co-author of Stolen Valor: How the Vietnam Generation Was Robbed of Its Heroes and Its History (Verity Press Inc., 1998), revealed the plan to smear Senator John Kerry's (D-MA) Vietnam War record; this plan surfaced in the form of Swift Boat Veterans for Truth. On the August 26 edition of FOX News Channel's Hannity & Colmes, Burkett followed Swift Boat Veterans for Truth in issuing a series of false attacks against Kerry's military record: He attempted to link Kerry's post-Vietnam War service to Jane Fonda; claimed Kerry "was never for peace" and that Kerry "call[ed] Vietnam veterans murderers and rapists"; and flip-flopped on whether Kerry's 1971 Senate testimony was "radical."

Stolen Valor - Stolen Legacy
By Dave Curry (Reviewer)

Stolen Valor: How the Vietnam Generation Was Robbed of Its Heroes and Its History
B.G. Burkett & Glenna Whitley
(Verity Press, 1998)

B.G. Burkett's stated goal is to steal back the valor of the Vietnam veterans who really served in Vietnam. To do so, he seeks to destroy the "myth" perpetuated by Vietnam veteran "liars and wannabes" with the assistance of the media, the Department of Veterans Affairs, veterans' advocates, and the mental health care industry. In order to accomplish his goal, Burkett and his coauthor set out to steal the legacy of being Vietnam veterans from all Vietnam veterans who opposed the Vietnam War and all Vietnam veterans who suffer or have suffered from post-traumatic stress disorder, homelessness, suicide, service-connected substance abuse problems, or health problems related to Agent Orange.

Burkett does not claim to be a social scientist, nor should he be mistaken for one. His "research" might be passed off for poor journalism, but no more. His central research technique is leafing through the military records of other veterans that are made available through the federal Freedom of Information Act. There are a number of problems with this approach — chief among them the notorious inaccuracy and incompleteness of military records. For Burkett, if there's no military record available through Freedom of Information, there's no veteran. There is no evidence that Burkett ever attempts to expand his research by soliciting interview information from the victims of his attacks. He does cite opinions of "successful" veterans and authors who agree with his particular prejudices, but even that is done selectively.

The errors in research methodology in "Stolen Valor" could fill a volume as large as Burkett's. I will draw attention to only some of the more glaring tendencies in his work. In his chapter entitled "The Minority Myth: Blacks in Vietnam," Burkett denigrates the service and sacrifice of African-American soldiers in Vietnam. There is empirical research on variations in casualties and service between African-Americans and whites in Vietnam, but Burkett doesn't address it. Instead, Burkett's main target is Wallace Terry's Bloods. In this chapter as in others, Burkett eschews direct attacks on his target, instead concentrating on a TV documentary and a movie, both of which were loosely based on Terry's book. Burkett finishes the chapter with some interviews of successful African-American Vietnam veterans and concludes that Vietnam provided African-Americans an opportunity to display "leadership skills."

Burkett's attack on the Winter Soldier Investigation follows the same pattern. He relies on a Neil Sheehan review of Mark Lane's "Conversations with Americans" and simply repeats charges of Sheehan on selected Lane interviewees.




Revisionist History

Book review: "Stolen Valor"- How the VietNam Generation Was Robbed of its Heroes and its History

By B.G. Burkett & Glenna Whitley

Verity Press, Inc. 1998

I guess Random House didn't want to have anything to do with this exercise of the absurd. But hey, it still got printed. So much for the continuing waste of paper.

What B.G Burkett is doing with his book, by exposing these phony Nam vets, is to attack every issue in the Vietnam vets community, under the guise that all our complaints are not real. Now you have to understand that this is a guy who grew up in officer country in the Air Force. Became an Army officer, with no understanding what the average soldier goes through daily, I'm in charge, you're not mentality. B.G. did not want to go to the bush, and did everything he could, not to. He even states this in his book. B.G. was a REMF, go ask a Nam vet what that is. B. G. was a procurement officer for the 199 Lt. Infantry Bde. Basically, he scrounged supplies for his unit, a useful skill in the Army, but hardly a grunt by any stretch of the word. He even talks about going up to an old French villa that had been taken over for the officers, and hanging around the pool with all these airline stewardesses and having fun and partying. This guy had no idea what the grunt in the bush was going through, nor did he care. There's even a picture of good old B.G. in steel helmet, flack vest, M-16 rifle, 45 pistol, gas mask and last but not least, CLEAN FATIGUES and SHINED BOOTS. What the caption reads is: Lt. Burkett posing for the folks back home during my stint as a ready reaction rifle platoon leader. To the unsuspecting reader, i.e. civilians, this guy was a leader of men in combat, fighting the good fight, against all odds. Nothing could be farther from the truth, in the case of B.G. Burkett. Just what is a Ready Reaction Rifle Platoon Leader? OK, here's how it works. In Nam, each base camp was surrounded by a series of bunkers. These bunkers were manned by personnel of the base camp, on guard duty. This was done so the bad guys, V.C. & N.V.A., could not waltz in and blow up the mess hall or steal the beer from the EM (enlisted men) and Officers Clubs.

Steve Hassna served in the 101st Airborne in Vietnam and was a drill instructor.

 

[Intense]

ContentsStolen Valor is divided into 4 parts and an appendix.

Part I (The Image) begins with a chapter about B.G. Burkett's time in the Army. The next four chapters detail the author's argument that the image of the Vietnam Veteran was tarnished by a combination of media coverage, Veteran imposters, US citizens' anger against the draft, and a perception of the veteran as a victim.[1]

Part II (The Trauma of War) looks into the diagnoses of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder in Vietnam Veterans and how it is treated by the Veteran's Administration and the rise of war atrocity accusations against Vietnam Veterans. It also does further analysis of the effects of people, the author believes to be Vietnam War Veteran imposters, on the image of the Vietnam Veteran, specifically, the lack of investigation by the news media into the background of these possible veterans. This part delves into what the author believes to be the mislabeling of one of the causes of homelessness, the Vietnam War.[2]

Part III (Stolen Valor) describes what the author believes to be a widespread wearing of Vietnam War specific medals, ribbons and badges by people who did not earn them. The author, using the Freedom of Information Act, was able to retrieve records of individuals who claimed they served in Vietnam during the War and he used this method to denounce people who didn't have records to support their service, badges, ribbons and medals. In this section, the author also demonstrates his disbelief in the idea that minorities participated in rates higher than their percentage of the populations. [3]

In Part IV (Victims and Heroes) , the author discusses what he believes to be a myth about the effects of Agent Orange, profiling pilots from the Vietnam War who flew Agent Orange delivery missions in Vietnam and who have not had an increase in health effects since then. In this section, the author also denounces the Vietnam Veterans of America, calling them "Vietnam Victims of America."[4]

The Appendices provide lists of Medal of Honor awardees, Distinguished Service Cross awardees, Navy Cross awardees, Air Force Cross awardees and U.S. military POWs who survived their captivity.

[edit] ReceptionMackubin Thomas Owens, an adjunct fellow at the Ashbrook Center, a professor of strategy and force planning at the Naval War College in Newport, R.I., and a Marine infantry veteran of Vietnam, praised Burkett as finding impostors by doing "something that any reporter worth his or her salt could have done: he used the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) to check the actual records of the 'image makers' used by reporters to flesh out their stories on homelessness, Agent Orange, suicide, drug abuse, criminality, or alcoholism." [5]

Vietnam veteran Dave Curry, in a review published by Vietnam Veterans Against the War, accused Burkett and his coauthor of displaying political partisanship, making "errors in research methodology," making misleading statements about Winter Soldier Investigation participants, and denigrating the experiences and motives of veterans who subsequently opposed the war.[6]

Stolen Valor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

_______________________________________________________

At best your criticism is a mixed bag. Still, much fraud and misinformation was uncovered. There is no getting around that.

The piece on Dan Rather exposed him for the hack he was.

The Swifties covered Kerry and his games about refusing to sign Standard form 180. Kerry put Kerry to shame, not the Swifties. He cost himself the election over it. Pathological Lie's generally have that effect.

 

[Ernie S.]

Depends on who wins

 

[editec]

How will history view Fox News and MSNBC

As two disinformation outlets, tools of the Master Class that controls this nation.

Kill your TV.

It is filling your subconscious (which you might or might not know completely lacks the ability to reason and takes everything at face value) with poisonous disinformation.

 

[Bfgrn]

ContentsStolen Valor is divided into 4 parts and an appendix.

Part I (The Image) begins with a chapter about B.G. Burkett's time in the Army. The next four chapters detail the author's argument that the image of the Vietnam Veteran was tarnished by a combination of media coverage, Veteran imposters, US citizens' anger against the draft, and a perception of the veteran as a victim.[1]

Part II (The Trauma of War) looks into the diagnoses of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder in Vietnam Veterans and how it is treated by the Veteran's Administration and the rise of war atrocity accusations against Vietnam Veterans. It also does further analysis of the effects of people, the author believes to be Vietnam War Veteran imposters, on the image of the Vietnam Veteran, specifically, the lack of investigation by the news media into the background of these possible veterans. This part delves into what the author believes to be the mislabeling of one of the causes of homelessness, the Vietnam War.[2]

Part III (Stolen Valor) describes what the author believes to be a widespread wearing of Vietnam War specific medals, ribbons and badges by people who did not earn them. The author, using the Freedom of Information Act, was able to retrieve records of individuals who claimed they served in Vietnam during the War and he used this method to denounce people who didn't have records to support their service, badges, ribbons and medals. In this section, the author also demonstrates his disbelief in the idea that minorities participated in rates higher than their percentage of the populations. [3]

In Part IV (Victims and Heroes) , the author discusses what he believes to be a myth about the effects of Agent Orange, profiling pilots from the Vietnam War who flew Agent Orange delivery missions in Vietnam and who have not had an increase in health effects since then. In this section, the author also denounces the Vietnam Veterans of America, calling them "Vietnam Victims of America."[4]

The Appendices provide lists of Medal of Honor awardees, Distinguished Service Cross awardees, Navy Cross awardees, Air Force Cross awardees and U.S. military POWs who survived their captivity.

[edit] ReceptionMackubin Thomas Owens, an adjunct fellow at the Ashbrook Center, a professor of strategy and force planning at the Naval War College in Newport, R.I., and a Marine infantry veteran of Vietnam, praised Burkett as finding impostors by doing "something that any reporter worth his or her salt could have done: he used the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) to check the actual records of the 'image makers' used by reporters to flesh out their stories on homelessness, Agent Orange, suicide, drug abuse, criminality, or alcoholism." [5]

Vietnam veteran Dave Curry, in a review published by Vietnam Veterans Against the War, accused Burkett and his coauthor of displaying political partisanship, making "errors in research methodology," making misleading statements about Winter Soldier Investigation participants, and denigrating the experiences and motives of veterans who subsequently opposed the war.[6]

Stolen Valor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

_______________________________________________________

At best your criticism is a mixed bag. Still, much fraud and misinformation was uncovered. There is no getting around that.

The piece on Dan Rather exposed him for the hack he was.

The Swifties covered Kerry and his games about refusing to sign Standard form 180. Kerry put Kerry to shame, not the Swifties. He cost himself the election over it. Pathological Lie's generally have that effect.

The piece on Dan Rather was from a fucking HACK. There is no bigger pathological liar than George W. Bush. It is truly sad that a guy who served in combat is slandered and a pampered little millionaire's brat who murdered a hundred thousand innocent human beings is elected. We live in a nation where ignorance is reaching an epidemic level.

 

[Intense]

ContentsStolen Valor is divided into 4 parts and an appendix.

Part I (The Image) begins with a chapter about B.G. Burkett's time in the Army. The next four chapters detail the author's argument that the image of the Vietnam Veteran was tarnished by a combination of media coverage, Veteran imposters, US citizens' anger against the draft, and a perception of the veteran as a victim.[1]

Part II (The Trauma of War) looks into the diagnoses of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder in Vietnam Veterans and how it is treated by the Veteran's Administration and the rise of war atrocity accusations against Vietnam Veterans. It also does further analysis of the effects of people, the author believes to be Vietnam War Veteran imposters, on the image of the Vietnam Veteran, specifically, the lack of investigation by the news media into the background of these possible veterans. This part delves into what the author believes to be the mislabeling of one of the causes of homelessness, the Vietnam War.[2]

Part III (Stolen Valor) describes what the author believes to be a widespread wearing of Vietnam War specific medals, ribbons and badges by people who did not earn them. The author, using the Freedom of Information Act, was able to retrieve records of individuals who claimed they served in Vietnam during the War and he used this method to denounce people who didn't have records to support their service, badges, ribbons and medals. In this section, the author also demonstrates his disbelief in the idea that minorities participated in rates higher than their percentage of the populations. [3]

In Part IV (Victims and Heroes) , the author discusses what he believes to be a myth about the effects of Agent Orange, profiling pilots from the Vietnam War who flew Agent Orange delivery missions in Vietnam and who have not had an increase in health effects since then. In this section, the author also denounces the Vietnam Veterans of America, calling them "Vietnam Victims of America."[4]

The Appendices provide lists of Medal of Honor awardees, Distinguished Service Cross awardees, Navy Cross awardees, Air Force Cross awardees and U.S. military POWs who survived their captivity.

[edit] ReceptionMackubin Thomas Owens, an adjunct fellow at the Ashbrook Center, a professor of strategy and force planning at the Naval War College in Newport, R.I., and a Marine infantry veteran of Vietnam, praised Burkett as finding impostors by doing "something that any reporter worth his or her salt could have done: he used the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) to check the actual records of the 'image makers' used by reporters to flesh out their stories on homelessness, Agent Orange, suicide, drug abuse, criminality, or alcoholism." [5]

Vietnam veteran Dave Curry, in a review published by Vietnam Veterans Against the War, accused Burkett and his coauthor of displaying political partisanship, making "errors in research methodology," making misleading statements about Winter Soldier Investigation participants, and denigrating the experiences and motives of veterans who subsequently opposed the war.[6]

Stolen Valor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

_______________________________________________________

At best your criticism is a mixed bag. Still, much fraud and misinformation was uncovered. There is no getting around that.

The piece on Dan Rather exposed him for the hack he was.

The Swifties covered Kerry and his games about refusing to sign Standard form 180. Kerry put Kerry to shame, not the Swifties. He cost himself the election over it. Pathological Lie's generally have that effect.

The piece on Dan Rather was from a fucking HACK. There is no bigger pathological liar than George W. Bush. It is truly sad that a guy who served in combat is slandered and a pampered little millionaire's brat who murdered a hundred thousand innocent human beings is elected. We live in a nation where ignorance is reaching an epidemic level.

Doesn't change the Fact that Rather than Dan was Naughty. You seem to discredit from the Right, and defend dishonesty from the Left. Kerry is covered very well in the Swift Boat Book. They gave his side of the argument better than any outside source, including Kerry himself. What nailed Kerry, was that they gave both sides of the argument, and Kerry's spin did not stand up to scrutiny. In both Books there are plenty of Foot Notes for reference. You not having read either, should reconsider your premise.

 

[Two Thumbs]

Yet the Throne will still belong to Rather than Dan.

What? Dan Rather is an excellent journalist and an honorable man.

No, no he is not.

He's one of the biggest liars out there and finally got caught thanks to the internet.

 

[Two Thumbs]

My view both will get bad reviews by future generations of historians for their baised news coverage.

They will be nothing more than footnotes.

When history talks about TV, they will talk about the big 3 and the first few channels that started on cable.

After that it's brief mentions for people that really want to know.

 

[The Hatter]

They will be mentioned in the same tone that William Randolph Hearst is today, yellow journalism.

 

[Truthmatters]

My view both will get bad reviews by future generations of historians for their baised news coverage.

MSNBC was the ONLY station that was right about the Iraq war being sold to us on lies.

This part of history is already written.

Those who care about truth recognise this fact.

Fox was the main cheerleader for a failed presidency.

They defended the lies the Bush admin tried to pump out.

Other stations also defended the lies.


What they become in the future will have to be seen.

Right now the facts are msnbc was right on the facts and Fox was propaganda

 

[rightwinger]

They will be looked at as yellow journalism and propagandists

The free press has a long history of extremist press used to sell newspapers

 

[Two Thumbs]

Actually, if you check the ratings, MSN is about to be history.

They are slowly being taken over by the HN station. So we might actually know in about 10 years.