How to Fix the Phony Budget Crisis

[Immanuel]

And yet you'll notice that neither Bill Gates nor Warren Buffett willed their estates to the US Government. In fact, they gave a huge boost to private charities. I think we should follow their examples.

I wasn't aware that they had died. How do you know what is in their wills with any reliability or what will be in their wills? Also, that was not my point. In fact, my point is very simple.

What bugs me in this whole debate is the attitude that liberals take in reference to the rich. They seek to punish the rich for no other reason than that they are, in fact, rich. I really do not have a problem with raising taxes on the rich if it is done for the right reasons, just as I am not opposed to having my own taxes raised for the right reasons, but this excoriation of the rich because they are rich is lame to say the least.

Immie

It bugs me too, especially when certain "very rich" people are lauded for their political views instead of their actual actions.

Warren Buffett and Bill Gates publicly announced where their money was going:

The $600 billion challenge - FORTUNE Features - Fortune on CNNMoney.com

Private charities.

Thanks, I remember now that they had made those announcements before. Private charities is a great place to send their money. However, the distribution of their estate is not so much the point that I think this issue is about. It plays a part in the entire discussion, but we are talking about their wealth while they are yet living.

Increasing taxes upon the rich is fine. I don't see a big deal and do not believe the rich do either. As I said, I just get sick and tired of all the whining about those evil rich people! The evil people, if they can even be called that, are Congress itself. They are the ones that are responsible for the mess we are in. Not the rich nor the poor but Congress itself. But the left praises Congress for increasing spending day in and day out.

Hello! That is the problem here. Congress just keeps increasing spending. That is the problem not tax revenues... spending.

Immie

 

[Big Fitz]

You want the government to redistribute the wealth more "fairly." You want "social justice."

Never mind that you're supporting a whole welfare society, that's entitled to others wealth without earning a dime of it, and never mind that after all the fraud and waste within the government, you still won't solve the problem OR meet your desired goal.

You wish only to see the equal distribution of misery, not success. And want to see the government get bigger, and bigger, more intrusive and more powerful.

Jealousy, envy and greed are the roots of 'social justice'. They don't wish to be treated equally under the law, they just want to make sure that everyone suffers as much as they feel they do.

How does impoverishing any rich person make their lives better? It doesn't. Often, all it does is make their lives worse, but then they blame the rich for that as well.

They have a hole in their soul that nothing seems to fill yet schadenfreude seems to alleviate the pain for a little while.

 

[The T]

You want the government to redistribute the wealth more "fairly." You want "social justice."

Never mind that you're supporting a whole welfare society, that's entitled to others wealth without earning a dime of it, and never mind that after all the fraud and waste within the government, you still won't solve the problem OR meet your desired goal.

You wish only to see the equal distribution of misery, not success. And want to see the government get bigger, and bigger, more intrusive and more powerful.

Jealousy, envy and greed are the roots of 'social justice'. They don't wish to be treated equally under the law, they just want to make sure that everyone suffers as much as they feel they do.

How does impoverishing any rich person make their lives better? It doesn't. Often, all it does is make their lives worse, but then they blame the rich for that as well.

They have a hole in their soul that nothing seems to fill yet schadenfreude seems to alleviate the pain for a little while.

Yep. An ideology called "spreading around misery equally".

 

[editec]

Gee now from what CLASS are the MASTERS selected?

The poor clas or the wealthy class?

And who made the decisions that have lead this nation into this financial; plight?


Those with no capital or power or the CAPITALIST class that has and controls both?

Gee this is like so hard to figure out, isn't it?

 

[JimH52]

Can you say Norway?

How about Wealth Tax??

"Times are tough. Someone has to pay. Why not start with those who can most afford it?...

"In Norway, for example, you pay one percent of your net worth in addition to income tax.

"What if we imposed a Norwegian-style wealth tax on the top one percent of U.S. households?

"We’re not talking upper middle class here: the poorest among them is worth a mere $8.3 million.

"This top one percent owns 35 percent of all wealth in the United States.

“'Such a wealth tax…would raise $191.1 billion each year (one percent of $19.1 trillion), a significant attack on the deficit,' Leon Friedman writes in The Nation. 'If we extended the tax to the top 5 percent, we could raise $338.5 billion a year (one percent of 62 percent of $54.6 trillion).'”

Tell the rich to pay up or pack up.

Sounds like a good idea, but the Republicans won't allow you to touch the rich. I mean, the whined and cried until the Wealthy were give a tax cut.

 

[georgephillip]

Gee now from what CLASS are the MASTERS selected?

The poor clas or the wealthy class?

And who made the decisions that have lead this nation into this financial; plight?


Those with no capital or power or the CAPITALIST class that has and controls both?

Gee this is like so hard to figure out, isn't it?

"We are in the early years of what already is and will likely continue to be an exceptionally long-lived capitalist crisis. The mass of Americans still mostly watch in stunned shock as the capitalism that they so long celebrated as 'delivering the goods' instead delivers one bad after another.

"Many keep hoping this downturn will pass and prosperity will resume, or that they individually will escape.

"Some do that very American thing and blame politicians and the state, ignoring the fact that the vast majority of the unemployed were laid off by private enterprises, the vast majority of homeowners were foreclosed on by private banks, and the vast majority of the still employed have had their benefits and job security reduced by private employers.

"A crucial part of the hegemonic alliance among big business, the richest 5 percent, and the state is the role of the state as the socially acceptable object of anger, protest, and rage deflected from the economic power and privileges of its hegemonic partners.

"Then, too, the United States masses no longer have the labor union, socialist, and communist organizations that in Europe informed and mobilized historically unprecedented mass opposition to austerity all last year."

Watching conservatives wail about the reality of capitalism reminds me of five year-olds discovering the reality of Santa Claus.

You have to wonder how they'll respond when Easter and its Bunny gets debunked?

Prospects for...

 

[Big Fitz]

Gee now from what CLASS are the MASTERS selected?

The poor clas or the wealthy class?

And who made the decisions that have lead this nation into this financial; plight?


Those with no capital or power or the CAPITALIST class that has and controls both?

Gee this is like so hard to figure out, isn't it?

Most of the wealthy are self made men and women who started poor, even our presidents often came from humble if not horrible circumstances.

Cornelius Vanderbilt
J.P. Morgan
John Rockefeller
Andrew Carnegie
Walt Disney

Presidents like:
Harry Truman
Ronald Reagan
Richard Nixon
Bill Clinton

Your presumption is false. The beauty of the traditional American Culture is that of class mobility. You may start poor, but you can end rich and powerful. But you can also start powerful and end up destitute.

Capital is a tool that belongs to those who work hard for it or sometimes get lucky and are either born to it or win it. That is no guarantee they get to keep it.

 

[Big Fitz]

Can you say Norway?

How about Wealth Tax??

"Times are tough. Someone has to pay. Why not start with those who can most afford it?...

"In Norway, for example, you pay one percent of your net worth in addition to income tax.

"What if we imposed a Norwegian-style wealth tax on the top one percent of U.S. households?

"We’re not talking upper middle class here: the poorest among them is worth a mere $8.3 million.

"This top one percent owns 35 percent of all wealth in the United States.

“'Such a wealth tax…would raise $191.1 billion each year (one percent of $19.1 trillion), a significant attack on the deficit,' Leon Friedman writes in The Nation. 'If we extended the tax to the top 5 percent, we could raise $338.5 billion a year (one percent of 62 percent of $54.6 trillion).'”

Tell the rich to pay up or pack up.

Sounds like a good idea, but the Republicans won't allow you to touch the rich. I mean, the whined and cried until the Wealthy were give a tax cut.

No, the Wealthy will not allow you to touch them. They have the money to spend on the candidates of both parties who will protect them.

That is why groups like the Tea Party that cross wealth lines or tap into the power of deep populist sentiment who scare them and threaten to uproot their protections.

 

[skookerasbil]

Can you say Norway?

How about Wealth Tax??

"Times are tough. Someone has to pay. Why not start with those who can most afford it?...

"In Norway, for example, you pay one percent of your net worth in addition to income tax.

"What if we imposed a Norwegian-style wealth tax on the top one percent of U.S. households?

"We’re not talking upper middle class here: the poorest among them is worth a mere $8.3 million.

"This top one percent owns 35 percent of all wealth in the United States.

“'Such a wealth tax…would raise $191.1 billion each year (one percent of $19.1 trillion), a significant attack on the deficit,' Leon Friedman writes in The Nation. 'If we extended the tax to the top 5 percent, we could raise $338.5 billion a year (one percent of 62 percent of $54.6 trillion).'”

Tell the rich to pay up or pack up.

fAiL s0n......this kind of thinking only resonates in the far reaches of the internet. Fringe thinking FTL..................

Morons on the left still havent hit the re-set button. I have to post this map up at least 3 or 4 times a week................

Hellllllllllllloooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!

Less than 41% of eligible voters are represented by your map, and, THANK YOU, OBAMA, most of the no-shows would likely have voted blue.

Nothing will change the economic fundamentals of this country by "choosing" between Republican OR Democrat. (red or blue)

Which is why the Rasmussen polls are always so consistently balls accurate, by the way...............

Well.........we're certianly going to see s0n...........The House will not go back to blue before 2020 due to Rust Belt redistricting. The purse strings will be in the hands of the color red.

And thank God for Disney philosophers on this board like PhillipGeorge. Without them, this board would suck........

 

[georgephillip]

You're stupid and gullible enough to send a free forum board your money, and want to preach to the rest of us about fraudulent gaining of wealth?

It's idiot suckers like you who GIVE your wealth willingly to the Madoff's of the world. Why not put your money where your mouth is, and just send it to the IRS? Fucking dolt.

USMB is a massive ponzi scheme targeting RICH parasites?

Got links?

While you're at it, shit stain, there are no "free" lunches or message boards.

Maybe you should stick to bridge and beer?

You are really stupid. How is there not a "free lunch" on this board, or most any other free board?

Wait, you're stupid enough to PAY to see the adverts gone, when smart people such as myself just block them with AdBlock program?

You are a gullible, blithering idiot.

Do the names "Enron", "WorldCom", "Tyco", "Ken Lay", "Jeff Skilling", "Bernie Ebbers" and "Dennis Kozlowski" ring any bells?

You dodged the question: HOW MUCH of their wealth is obtained via fraud?

Approximately the same percentage as their jail time was the result of fraud.

Are you confused by the words "control fraud"?

 

[georgephillip]

Who do you trust to administer "social justice" in this country?

Wall Street or Government?

Neither.

BECAUSE THERE SHOULD BE NONE!

Who do you trust to enforce a monopoly of violence?

Bernie Madoff?

 

[Rozman]

Can you say Norway?

How about Wealth Tax??

"Times are tough. Someone has to pay. Why not start with those who can most afford it?...

"In Norway, for example, you pay one percent of your net worth in addition to income tax.

"What if we imposed a Norwegian-style wealth tax on the top one percent of U.S. households?

"We’re not talking upper middle class here: the poorest among them is worth a mere $8.3 million.

"This top one percent owns 35 percent of all wealth in the United States.

“'Such a wealth tax…would raise $191.1 billion each year (one percent of $19.1 trillion), a significant attack on the deficit,' Leon Friedman writes in The Nation. 'If we extended the tax to the top 5 percent, we could raise $338.5 billion a year (one percent of 62 percent of $54.6 trillion).'”

Tell the rich to pay up or pack up.

How about the fact that the upper 1-2 % of wealthy Americans already pay most of the tax burden in this country....

How bout the fact that a good portion of the 99 ers will not even make an attempt to look for work as long as they can stay home and collect benefits....

How about the government stop spending money foolishly like on Stimulus programs that don't do much stimulating?....

 

[Rozman]

The more money that the government takes from it's citizens the more it will spend.Taking more and more doesn't fix anything until the government gets it's crap together....I'm not holding my breathe.

The Democrats will just spend and spend and they will never be satisfied..There will never be enough money in the Treasury.

 

[skookerasbil]

The far left are so hopelessly naive its hysterical...........

Here in New York a couple of years back, they pushed for a big tax hike on the weatlhy and expected windfall back, this according to the Dem governor at the time. A year later, the revenues back to Albany were a disaster and the governor even admitted it was ePiC fAiL!!!!

The k00ks never learn this class warfare crap is gay.............

 

[Rozman]

I don't know if your referring a luxury tax on yachts and recreation boats.I seem to remember something about that...on Long Island,NY.

The plan was to stick it to the rich people..

The plan failed because the rich either held onto their money or spent it on other things.
The result....

The makers of the boats let people go.
The manufacturers of boating parts let people go.
The restaurants around the boating yard let people go....the workers ate in these restaurants.
The State and City lost tax revenue....

On and on the dominoes fell,one affecting the other...

All this because the government wanted to "stick it " to those evil rich people.

 

[skookerasbil]

Tax-revenue free fall
By BRENDAN SCOTT
Last Updated: 5:11 AM, October 13, 2009

-- Tax collections continued to slide in September, as Gov. Paterson resisted calls from legislative leaders to release a plan to close the state's yawning budget deficit.

State revenues tumbled $516 million to $6.16 billion, or 7.7 percent lower than in September 2008, according to the Department of Taxation and Finance. That's down $500 million from the doom-and-gloom forecast issued by Paterson in July.

Declines were led by slumping income-tax collections, which slid 10.7 percent, or $410 million.

The shortfall comes despite a 31 percent tax hike on the rich approved in April by Paterson and legislative leaders.
Sales-tax collection dropped 2.2 percent, or $24 million. Business taxes fell 10.3 percent, or $136 million.



Read more: Tax-revenue free fall - NYPOST.com




Oooooooops!!!!

 

[skookerasbil]

Hey George........................

 

[miller]

Wanna know something?

I wouldn't mind all the rhetoric about the rich paying more in taxes if it was not formed in the manner of "blame the rich". "It is all the rich people's fault. Make them pay their fair share."

Turn it around and present it like this, "Hey you wealthy people, we the poor and middle class of the United States of America need your help. We're going to have to raise your taxes because there just is not enough in our coffers left to fix this problem."

I really hate the whining about how terrible rich people are for actually succeeding in life. Which of us wouldn't like to be in their shoes?

Immie

They bribe Congress for tax loopholes, trade deals, and tons of other shit to destroy middle class jobs and wealth. You're in a trance from the propaganda their corporations use to brainwash you.

 

[miller]

Can you say Norway?

How about Wealth Tax??

"Times are tough. Someone has to pay. Why not start with those who can most afford it?...

"In Norway, for example, you pay one percent of your net worth in addition to income tax.

"What if we imposed a Norwegian-style wealth tax on the top one percent of U.S. households?

"We’re not talking upper middle class here: the poorest among them is worth a mere $8.3 million.

"This top one percent owns 35 percent of all wealth in the United States.

“'Such a wealth tax…would raise $191.1 billion each year (one percent of $19.1 trillion), a significant attack on the deficit,' Leon Friedman writes in The Nation. 'If we extended the tax to the top 5 percent, we could raise $338.5 billion a year (one percent of 62 percent of $54.6 trillion).'”

Tell the rich to pay up or pack up.

Sounds like a good idea, but the Republicans won't allow you to touch the rich. I mean, the whined and cried until the Wealthy were give a tax cut.

And then Obama gave it to them. Wake up.

 

[Immanuel]

Wanna know something?

I wouldn't mind all the rhetoric about the rich paying more in taxes if it was not formed in the manner of "blame the rich". "It is all the rich people's fault. Make them pay their fair share."

Turn it around and present it like this, "Hey you wealthy people, we the poor and middle class of the United States of America need your help. We're going to have to raise your taxes because there just is not enough in our coffers left to fix this problem."

I really hate the whining about how terrible rich people are for actually succeeding in life. Which of us wouldn't like to be in their shoes?

Immie

They bribe Congress for tax loopholes, trade deals, and tons of other shit to destroy middle class jobs and wealth. You're in a trance from the propaganda their corporations use to brainwash you.

I have read enough of your posts to know that I am not the one in a trance. You really should find some way to get out from under that tin foil.

Immie