How This Happened

[Red Dawn]

If its a consensus and foregone conclusion that keynsian economics was a complete and unmitigated failure, please name one single government or nation on the planet that is addressing the current financial meltdown by shrinking government, deregulating the banking and finance industry, and allowing the magic invisible free markets to sort this all out.

Can't name one?

Thought not.

 

[Annie]

This is what that poster was remarking on.

Indeed, which is why Obama is going down the wrong path.

 

[Paulie]

If its a consensus and foregone conclusion that keynsian economics was a complete and unmitigated failure, please name one single government or nation on the planet that is addressing the current financial meltdown by shrinking government, deregulating the banking and finance industry, and allowing the magic invisible free markets to sort this all out.

Can't name one?

Thought not.

The fact that they're all resorting to proven keynesian failures doesn't mean they aren't insane.

 

[Truthmatters]

http://www.econ.ucla.edu/hlcole/HLCvitae.pdf


Cole is into neoclassical theory so surprize , surprize he would take that postion.

 

[Paulie]

http://www.econ.ucla.edu/hlcole/HLCvitae.pdf


Cole is into neoclassical theory so surprize , surprize he would take that postion.

More ad homs. Who would have guessed?

Nevermind the facts he used in his study.

You REALLY suck at debate, truth. Like, you're bottom of the barrel around here. Yes, THAT BAD.

 

[Red Dawn]

The fact that they're all resorting to proven keynesian failures doesn't mean they aren't insane.

The assertion was made that its a consensus that keynesian economics is a disaster, particulary during an economic meltdown.

So, why isn't a single government, in any developed nation on the entire planet doing what these libertarian economists suggest?

 

[Truthmatters]

UCLA Economist: Fundamentals Looked 'Good' Before Bailout Talk Caused 'Panic' | NewsBusters.org

Ohanian thought the economy was sound beofre the bail out.

I doubt he will win any prizes for that thought.

 

[Truthmatters]

Your experts are already biased in their theory.

 

[Truthmatters]

The assertion was made that its a consensus that keynesian economics is a disaster, particulary during an economic meltdown.

So, why isn't a single government, in any developed nation on the entire planet doing what these libertarian economists suggest?

Because it only works in theory.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

This is what that poster was remarking on.

That poster also remarked that I insisted that the massive spending of WW2 ended the Depression, on top of my statement that government spending does not help anything. Of course, I never said anything about the massive spending of WW2, that poster simply made it up.

 

[Red Dawn]

Because it only works in theory.

I don't understand how there is a "consensus" that keynesian economics is a failure, while in fact every government on the planet is tackling this problem with keynsian economics. Not with far rightwing libertarian lassaize faire economics.

Doesn't sound like much of a consensus to me.

Further, are we to believe that a few academic economists and a handful of anonymous libertarian message board posters are correct? And every single government, in every developed nation on the planet is somehow wrong?

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

I don't understand how there is a "consensus" that keynesian economics is a failure, while in fact every government on the planet is tackling this problem with keynsian economics. Not with far rightwing libertarian lassaize faire economics.

Doesn't sound like much of a consensus to me.

Further, are we to believe that a few academic economists and a handful of anonymous libertarian message board posters are correct? And every single government, in every developed nation on the planet is somehow wrong?

Well, all these governments are in an economic crisis that was predicted by the Austro-Libertarians, and everything that those governments have done to solve this crisis has only made it worse just as we Austro-Libertarians said that they would. So yes, I'd say they're wrong.

 

[Red Dawn]

Well, all these governments are in an economic crisis that was predicted by the Austro-Libertarians, and everything that those governments have done to solve this crisis has only made it worse just as we Austro-Libertarians said that they would. So yes, I'd say they're wrong.

I'd say your "consensus" assertion was wrong then.

Unless you want to say that every single government on the planet is knowingly and foolishly pursuing a policy that, by consensus, has been "proven" to fail.


Sorry, I can't take that argument seriously.

Far right wing libertarian economics isn't taken seriously by the governments of the world. And I don't think its because you guys are correct, and everyone else is wrong. Nothing personal. Its just not something serious people even debate. It's fringe stuff.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

I'd say your "consensus" assertion was wrong then.

Unless you want to say that every single government on the planet is knowingly and foolishly pursuing a policy that, by consensus, has been "proven" to fail.


Sorry, I can't take that argument seriously.

Far right wing libertarian economics isn't taken seriously by the governments of the world. And I don't think its because you guys are correct, and everyone else is wrong. Nothing personal. Its just not something serious people even debate. It's fringe stuff.

Knowingly or not, they are certainly pursuing policies that are going to make the crisis worse. They are simply trying to reflate the bubble that has popped, and even if they succeed in doing that it's going to pop again and be worse then it is now.

 

[RodISHI]

Kevin do you know the history of what transpired in the 70's with housing, farm crisis and banks?

Is back what went on then considered a bubble?

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Kevin do you know the history of what transpired in the 70's with housing, farm crisis and banks?

Is back what went on then considered a bubble?

What happened in the 70's was stagflation caused by the Fed inflating the money supply.

The phenomenon of stagflation is characterized by the simultaneous occurence of a strengthening in the growth momentum of prices and a decline in real economic activity. A famous case of stagflation occurred during the 1974 — 75 period. In March 1975, industrial production fell by nearly 13% while the yearly rate of growth of the consumer price index (CPI) jumped to around 12%. Likewise a large fall in economic activity and galloping price inflation was observed during 1979. By December of that year, the yearly rate of growth of industrial production stood close to nil while the rate of growth of the CPI stood at over 13%.

Did Phelps Really Explain Stagflation? - Frank Shostak - Mises Institute

Though, just for the record, this is not a period I'm particularly knowledgeable on, so others may be of more help than I am.

 

[Paulie]

The governments of the world using Keynesian tactics all have central banks that collude with one another. It's why they all debase their currencies to prop up the dollar. We're using Keynesian methods here, so it stands to reason they would all use them as well, because if they didn't, the whole "global economy" wouldn't produce the results desired. Why a nation would debase its currency merely to prop up the dollar and the idea of globalization is beyond me. They're hurting their own economy to help an agenda that may or may not even be viable in the long term. There's no proof that globalization is prosperous, because we're still tinkering with it, hoping that it works. So far, it would seem to me that it doesn't. A country should protect its own interests first, not run policy detrimental to it, merely to prop up a world wide agenda.

If you ask me, it's the "global economy" that's insane. Not Austro-Libertarianism.

Trade is fine. It always has been. But inter-connected economies are ridiculous.

Where is the proof that Keynesian policy works? We're in a global recession, teetering on depression, because of Keynesian policies. Borrow and spend, inflate and spend, and then when all else fails, extinguish money and start again. How is that good policy?

 

[RodISHI]

The governments of the world using Keynesian tactics all have central banks that collude with one another. It's why they all debase their currencies to prop up the dollar. We're using Keynesian methods here, so it stands to reason they would all use them as well, because if they didn't, the whole "global economy" wouldn't produce the results desired. Why a nation would debase its currency merely to prop up the dollar and the idea of globalization is beyond me. They're hurting their own economy to help an agenda that may or may not even be viable in the long term. There's no proof that globalization is prosperous, because we're still tinkering with it, hoping that it works. So far, it would seem to me that it doesn't. A country should protect its own interests first, not run policy detrimental to it, merely to prop up a world wide agenda.

If you ask me, it's the "global economy" that's insane. Not Austro-Libertarianism.

Trade is fine. It always has been. But inter-connected economies are ridiculous.

Where is the proof that Keynesian policy works? We're in a global recession, teetering on depression, because of Keynesian policies. Borrow and spend, inflate and spend, and then when all else fails, extinguish money and start again. How is that good policy?

It's not good to borrow spend, inflate, and spend etc....

 

[Paulie]

The assertion was made that its a consensus that keynesian economics is a disaster, particulary during an economic meltdown.

So, why isn't a single government, in any developed nation on the entire planet doing what these libertarian economists suggest?

I provided a study that was done by two UCLA economists, where they concluded that FDR's policies prolonged the depression. Those policies were Keynesian. Truthmatters dismissed it because apparently, she thinks the economists were biased. They used the raw numbers in their research. Regardless of possible bias one way or another, the numbers don't lie. It doesn't really matter what your initial beliefs are about the situation, it was scientific research. Bias has no impact on the result. The facts researched, produced a factual result.

Truthmatters was just looking for anything she could, to continue holding onto her ideological belief. When all else failed, she attacked their character. In fact, all else didn't even fail, because she ONLY attacked their character, rather than debate the research and the results.

Will you be doing the same as her, or would you prefer to debate the research?

 

[Paulie]

It's not good to borrow spend, inflate, and spend etc....

Well that's Keynes in a nutshell. Spend as much as you can to get out of trouble, deficits don't matter, constant money supply expansion and contraction are fine, etc.

If you don't agree with those things, you don't agree with Keynesian economics.