How the GOP became the Party of No!

[Locke11_21]

Yawn.

This is so fucking boring already. Dems had a Super Majority and they gave us the worst recession since the FDR Depression

We all know who gave us the Recession. THANK YOU W!

I by no means am trying to excuse the inexcusable spending by the GOP under GWB, however; let's take a look at these facts. With 6 years of a GOP controlled house and senate under GWB, they added $3.4 trillion to the debt. Now, let's fast forward to in just one year with a Democrat controlled house and senate under Obama, the Denocrats...in just one year added $3 trillion in debt. It took 6 years for the GOP to add $3.4 trillion in debt, it took the Democrats just one year to fall $400 billion short of that.

Under GWB, the trillion in a year never happened, under Obama and the Democrats, trillion is the new billion. The out of control spending by both parties is disgusting, but politicians rely on people like you who only think one party does out of control spending.

 

[emilynghiem]

Good Point....,everyone holding and singing We are the World disappeared when the black guy was elected.

It wasn't just because Obama was "the black guy"....what really pissed right wingers off was the fact that Obama quickly became the successful, "black guy."

Dear nat4900
Obama WOULD have been successful in what he set out to do
if he had started as Vice President, used his position to build grassroots based communities
in each district and state to address poverty, build microlending networks to invest in
schools and replacements for prisons that these minority communities OWN and manage themselves.

THAT would be successfully breaking the cycle of poverty, oppression, disparity,
and overreliance on govt and charity handouts.

Instead we have a bunch of political agenda and infighting over what to push through federal
or what to keep at the state level.

NOTHING IS BEING BUILT on the ground level where the working people
AFFECTED by all this legislation mandated from the top down.

This is not helping the poor and working communities
still struggling to save our own neighborhoods robbed of resources
by this ever encroaching govt bureaucracy.

Obama ISSUED an Executive Order on Exctiesellence in African American Education.
Why aren't constituents funding that instead of funding more political campaigns for and against
ACA, gay marriage and all these other divisive issues costing us millions if not billions of dollars?
Why can't we invest that money directly in communities to rebuild programs on a SUSTAINABLE basis
instead of relying on politicians promising support. Why not pay directly into programs that work?

Obama MENTIONED microlending in his Cairo speech, but where is it?

Now he's looking at the need for Criminal Justice reform.

Well DUH!!!

Where do you think all the resources are being wasted
that COULD be paying for education and health care.

Success would be to identify these areas where the problems are backlogging,
solve those and redirect resources toward sustainable development
of community facilities for education, health and social services,
govt and business training so people become INDEPENDENT.

If Obama himself is DEPENDENT on politics and govt,
and not on directly building and managing programs
in ways that empower people, then how can he or anyone
TEACH that level of empowerment. All you are teaching is
to get heard you have to have billions of dollars to run for president.

That's not "equally empowering" anyone.
So it is still teaching dependence on OTHER PEOPLE to
organize billions of dollars to run for office.

We can't run a country that way, with people only
putting money into political campaigns to feel they have any power.
That's just paying other people to compete and fight for control.

How is this doing anything to build more schools
and clinics instead of more prisons?

Obama may be like Jimmy Carter who did more to change
the social and human condition by launching Habitat for Humanity
AFTER he was out of office.

So Obama may not even succeed at his real goals
until he works with the grassroots people instead of playing
political games in Washington trying to railroad programs through federal govt.

That is NOT where the power is. Sorry.

True Equality means empowering people to work locally on their own self-government
and economic viability. It does NOT mean teaching anyone to depend on federal officials in DC, whether the President or Supreme Court, to make decisions for them. We will NEVER be equal that way if we depend on govt to dictate and mandate for us.

It's the other way around. We the people should be building and leading, and then the govt should reflect what we are ALREADY doing. NOT dictating and managing from the top down.

So if Obama had first been VP, then Hillary would be President in 2008. You okay with that then?

I think Obama could have been VP first and then run for President and had a solid record to show
instead of running on nothing and then having to pass ACA to show he could force something his way
to establish authority.

At this point, I would argue to work toward a system of dual representation
I would divide the Presidential position into co-office holders with Internal and External duties
and also divide the VP position into two positions for Internal and External.

I think Democrats and the leadership style that the Party should focus on
would work better for VP and reorganizing federal programs that are better shifted back
to States and People to handle locally. The focus should be on diverse participation, representation
and training to govern locally so there is true empowerment on the grassroots level. This takes
one-on-one relationships between people and government reps and development/training over time
to manage all levels of city, county, and state before reaching the federal levels.

There is plenty to do on a grassroots level to teach people the laws and system
and train people to participate in govt, much more to manage and lead.
so that is a full time job I would divide between
Internal VP to handle national issues but on a local level
External VP to handle REAL interstate issues involving the relations between state and federal govt and laws

With the Presidential position, I would divide this as
External President to handle military, foreign relations and global economy/security
Internal President to handle federal issues that are domestic and truly under federal authority
(disease control, and border issues may be both domestic and involve some international outreach)

I would recommend repurposing the Democratic party for training leaders for the VP positions
and working all the way up from internships training in city county and local govt, including policing
public school administration, hospital and medical, health and social services, all the social programs
integrated in education and public service internships.

I would reserve the Republican party for training executives to set up and manage whole city-states,
production factories, media networks, corporate level financing, where the capital managed at this level
is invested in the educational/training programs and MENTORSHIPS, where there are tracks for people
to move up the class levels as far as they wish. If they want to stay in lower or middle management, or move all the way into upper management and CEO levels, there would be tracks and mentorship/microloan programs
set up for that.

That's what I would recommend, to accommodate the social programs of the Democrats with the business focus of the Republicans instead of only using govt to provide handouts with no responsibility for paying it forward.

What if there were organized tracks so all people at all levels could be accommodated.

Why can't we have Democrats focused on social programs, and providing education and training on local levels to reach all communities on their terms, while Republicans focus on the business side of govt, and reducing federal govt to what can be managed efficiently.

Why can't the roles be set up to accommodate the different focus and different leadership styles,
and have places and purpose for each leader and potential candidate to serve in maximum capacity?

 

[emilynghiem]

Yawn.

This is so fucking boring already. Dems had a Super Majority and they gave us the worst recession since the FDR Depression

We all know who gave us the Recession. THANK YOU W!

I by no means am trying to excuse the inexcusable spending by the GOP under GWB, however; let's take a look at these facts. With 6 years of a GOP controlled house and senate under GWB, they added $3.4 trillion to the debt. Now, let's fast forward to in just one year with a Democrat controlled house and senate under Obama, the Denocrats...in just one year added $3 trillion in debt. It took 6 years for the GOP to add $3.4 trillion in debt, it took the Democrats just one year to fall $400 billion short of that.

Under GWB, the trillion in a year never happened, under Obama and the Democrats, trillion is the new billion. The out of control spending by both parties is disgusting, but politicians rely on people like you who only think one party does out of control spending.

Dear Locke11_21
So instead of just talking or complaining in general,
why not set up specific commissions, legal and accounting teams,
to ASSESS specific cases of govt or corporate abuses of public funds and authority.

Why not go after the wrongdoers and waste and hold the parties responsible
for paying back taxpayers, or saving enough money by solving the problems,
to pay back in the future?

For extreme cases of loss to taxpayers over corruption and abuse
(such as 1.6 billion in failed junk bonds and interest abused to seize
Headwaters Forest in CA and destroy millions of acres of pristine
redwood and river ecosystems and endangered wildlife)
why not hold the property as collateral on the debts and damages
owed to taxpayers? In the case in CA, the state could issue currency notes against that debt
to represent and pay for the restoration work and student internships to assess
and repair the damage, and make the basis of the local economy,
owed restitution for the destruction done by corporate and political abuses of govt,
using the COST of restoration as the VALUE of the land to fund
educational loans and environment jobs./internships as part of the program.

In the case of immigration crimes of human and drug trafficking,the
restitution owed under RICO can be claimed and reinvested in rebuilding
communities along the border as safe residence and campus jobs/services/housing
for victims of these crimes.

Why not do the same with any violations involving WAR funding?
If the Iraq War is argued as an illegal invasion with no attack by Iraq that directly warranted this response,
why not issue notes representing over 30 trillion in tax dollars spent without consent of all the public,
and invest credits into rebuilding hospitals and other infrastructure needed both in Iraq to replace
the decimated health care system destroyed by sanctions and war,
and also needed in the US to fix the ailing VA and also the health care access for the general population.

Why not assess the damages from the criminal justice system and prison contracts
and demand taht taxpayer credits be reinvested in health care for preventing crime
and for law abiding citizens instead of making money off warehousing the prison populations without
treating them for addiction and mental illness contributing to the crime rate.

These are just some examples.

Instead of complaining, why not HOLD parties responsible financially
if their candidates they PROMISED would follow Constitutional laws and ethics
VIOLATED them and cost taxpayers money? Why not set up legal teams to
go COLLECT on behalf of taxpayers and start investing those credits in solutions

so instead of pouring more millions and billions to keep electing more people on PROMISES
why not go back and hold these parties for paying on their past performance and policies.

If the Democrats promise singlepayer health care, then demand they
collect funds to set that up already WITHOUT going through federal govt.

If voters have the power, why not use that to hold these Parties, Officials and Candidates accountable.
And either pay back, or pay forward. If the Officials or their Corporate sponsors don't accept responsibility,
then hold the entire Party responsible for the costs.

 

[JimH52]

Yawn.

This is so fucking boring already. Dems had a Super Majority and they gave us the worst recession since the FDR Depression

We all know who gave us the Recession. THANK YOU W!

I by no means am trying to excuse the inexcusable spending by the GOP under GWB, however; let's take a look at these facts. With 6 years of a GOP controlled house and senate under GWB, they added $3.4 trillion to the debt. Now, let's fast forward to in just one year with a Democrat controlled house and senate under Obama, the Denocrats...in just one year added $3 trillion in debt. It took 6 years for the GOP to add $3.4 trillion in debt, it took the Democrats just one year to fall $400 billion short of that.

Under GWB, the trillion in a year never happened, under Obama and the Democrats, trillion is the new billion. The out of control spending by both parties is disgusting, but politicians rely on people like you who only think one party does out of control spending.

Dear Locke11_21
So instead of just talking or complaining in general,
why not set up specific commissions, legal and accounting teams,
to ASSESS specific cases of govt or corporate abuses of public funds and authority.

Why not go after the wrongdoers and waste and hold the parties responsible
for paying back taxpayers, or saving enough money by solving the problems,
to pay back in the future?

For extreme cases of loss to taxpayers over corruption and abuse
(such as 1.6 billion in failed junk bonds and interest abused to seize
Headwaters Forest in CA and destroy millions of acres of pristine
redwood and river ecosystems and endangered wildlife)
why not hold the property as collateral on the debts and damages
owed to taxpayers? In the case in CA, the state could issue currency notes against that debt
to represent and pay for the restoration work and student internships to assess
and repair the damage, and make the basis of the local economy,
owed restitution for the destruction done by corporate and political abuses of govt,
using the COST of restoration as the VALUE of the land to fund
educational loans and environment jobs./internships as part of the program.

In the case of immigration crimes of human and drug trafficking,the
restitution owed under RICO can be claimed and reinvested in rebuilding
communities along the border as safe residence and campus jobs/services/housing
for victims of these crimes.

Why not do the same with any violations involving WAR funding?
If the Iraq War is argued as an illegal invasion with no attack by Iraq that directly warranted this response,
why not issue notes representing over 30 trillion in tax dollars spent without consent of all the public,
and invest credits into rebuilding hospitals and other infrastructure needed both in Iraq to replace
the decimated health care system destroyed by sanctions and war,
and also needed in the US to fix the ailing VA and also the health care access for the general population.

Why not assess the damages from the criminal justice system and prison contracts
and demand taht taxpayer credits be reinvested in health care for preventing crime
and for law abiding citizens instead of making money off warehousing the prison populations without
treating them for addiction and mental illness contributing to the crime rate.

These are just some examples.

Instead of complaining, why not HOLD parties responsible financially
if their candidates they PROMISED would follow Constitutional laws and ethics
VIOLATED them and cost taxpayers money? Why not set up legal teams to
go COLLECT on behalf of taxpayers and start investing those credits in solutions

so instead of pouring more millions and billions to keep electing more people on PROMISES
why not go back and hold these parties for paying on their past performance and policies.

If the Democrats promise singlepayer health care, then demand they
collect funds to set that up already WITHOUT going through federal govt.

If voters have the power, why not use that to hold these Parties, Officials and Candidates accountable.
And either pay back, or pay forward. If the Officials or their Corporate sponsors don't accept responsibility,
then hold the entire Party responsible for the costs.

I must say that you do have some interesting and innovative ideas. Thank you for that!

But on a realistic basis, the political party structures will never allow a power sharing structure, such as you are proposing. to take place. Actually, I am not sure it is ever constitutional......reasonable maybe, but constitutional....I don't know.

I must say, the more I listen to Trump, the more I "understand" him. I would say "the more I like him", but I am fairly certain I will never really like the man. I wish there was a "trainee Presidency" for maybe a year. Elect Trump for a year and see how he does. I am afraid four years may be more than we want to see. But I am still not totally persuaded that Trump is really a Republican, or even a conservative. I think as the cycle continues, more liberal flashes will appear.

In any case, I give you credit for "thinking" and for making some very reasonable statements. I do think that both parties share in the deficit and I do think that a new and innovative approach to our "political cycle" is needed. I hate to say it, but maybe Trump is one possible answer? OOOOUUCCHHH!!!

 

[Claudette]

http://swampland.time.com/2012/08/23/the-party-of-no-new-details-on-the-gop-plot-to-obstruct-obama/


President-elect during an economic emergency. “If he was for it,” former Ohio Senator George Voinovich explained, “we had to be against it.”

STOP OBAMA WAS THE CRY! Even if it was bad for the Country! Stop Obama!

That's easy. Because the Dems and the biased LSM said they were.

That's all folks.

 

[emilynghiem]

Yawn.

This is so fucking boring already. Dems had a Super Majority and they gave us the worst recession since the FDR Depression

We all know who gave us the Recession. THANK YOU W!

I by no means am trying to excuse the inexcusable spending by the GOP under GWB, however; let's take a look at these facts. With 6 years of a GOP controlled house and senate under GWB, they added $3.4 trillion to the debt. Now, let's fast forward to in just one year with a Democrat controlled house and senate under Obama, the Denocrats...in just one year added $3 trillion in debt. It took 6 years for the GOP to add $3.4 trillion in debt, it took the Democrats just one year to fall $400 billion short of that.

Under GWB, the trillion in a year never happened, under Obama and the Democrats, trillion is the new billion. The out of control spending by both parties is disgusting, but politicians rely on people like you who only think one party does out of control spending.

Dear Locke11_21
So instead of just talking or complaining in general,
why not set up specific commissions, legal and accounting teams,
to ASSESS specific cases of govt or corporate abuses of public funds and authority.

Why not go after the wrongdoers and waste and hold the parties responsible
for paying back taxpayers, or saving enough money by solving the problems,
to pay back in the future?

For extreme cases of loss to taxpayers over corruption and abuse
(such as 1.6 billion in failed junk bonds and interest abused to seize
Headwaters Forest in CA and destroy millions of acres of pristine
redwood and river ecosystems and endangered wildlife)
why not hold the property as collateral on the debts and damages
owed to taxpayers? In the case in CA, the state could issue currency notes against that debt
to represent and pay for the restoration work and student internships to assess
and repair the damage, and make the basis of the local economy,
owed restitution for the destruction done by corporate and political abuses of govt,
using the COST of restoration as the VALUE of the land to fund
educational loans and environment jobs./internships as part of the program.

In the case of immigration crimes of human and drug trafficking,the
restitution owed under RICO can be claimed and reinvested in rebuilding
communities along the border as safe residence and campus jobs/services/housing
for victims of these crimes.

Why not do the same with any violations involving WAR funding?
If the Iraq War is argued as an illegal invasion with no attack by Iraq that directly warranted this response,
why not issue notes representing over 30 trillion in tax dollars spent without consent of all the public,
and invest credits into rebuilding hospitals and other infrastructure needed both in Iraq to replace
the decimated health care system destroyed by sanctions and war,
and also needed in the US to fix the ailing VA and also the health care access for the general population.

Why not assess the damages from the criminal justice system and prison contracts
and demand taht taxpayer credits be reinvested in health care for preventing crime
and for law abiding citizens instead of making money off warehousing the prison populations without
treating them for addiction and mental illness contributing to the crime rate.

These are just some examples.

Instead of complaining, why not HOLD parties responsible financially
if their candidates they PROMISED would follow Constitutional laws and ethics
VIOLATED them and cost taxpayers money? Why not set up legal teams to
go COLLECT on behalf of taxpayers and start investing those credits in solutions

so instead of pouring more millions and billions to keep electing more people on PROMISES
why not go back and hold these parties for paying on their past performance and policies.

If the Democrats promise singlepayer health care, then demand they
collect funds to set that up already WITHOUT going through federal govt.

If voters have the power, why not use that to hold these Parties, Officials and Candidates accountable.
And either pay back, or pay forward. If the Officials or their Corporate sponsors don't accept responsibility,
then hold the entire Party responsible for the costs.

I must say that you do have some interesting and innovative ideas. Thank you for that!

But on a realistic basis, the political party structures will never allow a power sharing structure, such as you are proposing. to take place. Actually, I am not sure it is ever constitutional......reasonable maybe, but constitutional....I don't know.

I must say, the more I listen to Trump, the more I "understand" him. I would say "the more I like him", but I am fairly certain I will never really like the man. I wish there was a "trainee Presidency" for maybe a year. Elect Trump for a year and see how he does. I am afraid four years may be more than we want to see. But I am still not totally persuaded that Trump is really a Republican, or even a conservative. I think as the cycle continues, more liberal flashes will appear.

In any case, I give you credit for "thinking" and for making some very reasonable statements. I do think that both parties share in the deficit and I do think that a new and innovative approach to our "political cycle" is needed. I hate to say it, but maybe Trump is one possible answer? OOOOUUCCHHH!!!

Thanks JimH52
First of all, even the PARTY process and roles are NOT in the Constitution.
So it is open to whatever we want to change it to, like the Media are outside the Constitution.
Corporations are outside Constitutional roles, checks and balances that restrict govt.

Secondly, people's beliefs are going to drive them and they are NOT going to compromise those.
that is written in human nature. Just the way we are built.

As soon as people really understand, we are NOT going to change each other's beliefs
no matter what we railroad or ram through govt, then we we realize equality.
WE have to understand the Golden Rule, that the same way we want OUR inherent values
and beliefs respected and not infringed upon, so does the next guy, and the entire party of people across from us
fighting just as hard to defend their values and beliefs from infringement.

This cancels each other out. It is a lose-lose situation if we keep fighting. It contradicts the
religious freedom/establishment clause, prochoice, and "separation of church and state,"
and equal protection of the laws from discrimination by creed to keep fighting to push one set of beliefs over another.

So we really have no choice but to separate by party
and then decide what we CAN agree on enough to write up and pass as public laws.

That is the only thing that will satisfy the human conscience when it comes to
free choice and free exercise of religion including political beliefs.

People will not compromise on gay marriage nor will they compromise traditional marriage.
No amount of yelling louder or suing through Courts is going to change people's core beliefs.

As soon as we ACCEPT this reality we can deal with it.

Some people are getting it now, but others never understood the same issues
with prayer or abortion, and don't recognize that pushing gay marriage is like
pushing Christianity through the state. It has to be by free choice to decide, not govt mandate.

Enough people in both parties should get it where we can start organizing
means of sharing equal responsibility and choice in funding the programs that work for us.

If the people ready to lead start implementing and promoting examples,
the others will follow a good lead. but it has to be led by people they relate to.
So it is important for all parties to put forth their best solutions, and the people
fighting can focus on at least one angle they believe represents them and focus there.

We won't ever agree on all things, but we can at least agree X Y Z are good ideas
and focus there. Some things we are just going to have to put aside and resolve later
and can't get in the way of solving the parts and points we can get somewhere on.

Thanks again Jim
I know my ideas are overwhelming and sound too pie in the sky.
I find if I throw out the extreme scenarios, then by the time people reply
with what they agree with or object, we can edit down these ideas to something that is doable.

I just throw out the whole smorgasbord and let people pick and choose a la carte
which dishes they want to dig into and which to pass on. There is something in there for everyone.
I got these ideas from so many different sources, it will take all parties to work on their parts of the puzzle.

It's like an orchestra trying to organize parts for a symphony.
Everyone has to find their section and play their part in balance, tune and harmony with the others.
Or it is going to be a big noisy mess if the parts and sections compete to overblast and exclude each other.
We need to include and HELP each other fulfill our purpose correctly.

So all the Trumps and Clintons, Obama's Ben Carson's and Sharpton's, Allen West's and Cornell West's,
all the people we stand behind or can't stand at all, all have their place and role, and we need
to make the most of our skills, talents and management abilities to pull all our resources together and quit
wasting them fighting. WE cannot afford this current system of backstabbing and discrediting each other's
faults for political points, instead of correcting the problems so EVERYONE succeeds.

We can turn this ship around, but it takes everyone on deck, grabbing oars and rowing in the same
direction not against each other where we waste energy deadlocking and getting nowhere.