How some states are using progressive ideas to address economic woes

[kiwiman127]

Did you hear, they invented a thing called a wheel!!!! Some people bit into Big Oil's line of BS.

U.S. seen losing renewable energy race to Asia

Reuters) - Several Asian countries in addition to China could soon challenge the United States in the race to build a renewable energy industry if Washington doesn't provide more incentives for its domestic business, venture capitalists and others told a Congressional hearing on Wednesday.

The United States, once the world's leader in energy innovation, is now also "challenged and threatened" by India, South Korea, Malaysia and the Philippines, because it is not providing enough incentives to fund development of alternative energy and to increase demand, Ravi Viswanathan, a partner at New Enterprise Associates told a hearing chaired by U.S. Representative Ed Markey

"These nations have outpaced the U.S. in recruiting, incenting and developing domestic manufacturing of solar, wind, and battery technology," he said.

China already has more than half of the world's market for solar panels and its companies are looking to export wind turbines.

The Senate failed to pass a climate bill this year that would put a price on carbon emissions, so it must pass laws that would create demand for alternative energy or fall further behind, experts told the panel.

Senator Jeff Bingaman introduced a bill this week that would require utilities to generate minimum amounts of alternative energy through a federal Renewable Electricity Standard, or RES, but the legislation faces an uncertain future.

U.S. seen losing renewable energy race to Asia | Reuters

It seems that it's only in America, where alternative energy can't stand on it's own feet. So let's not be progressive and lose out to the advancements that other countries are taking advantage of regarding alternative energy.
Let's continue to think that we must stay in the stone age.

 

[Oddball]

Good...Let 'em spend their money on that crap.

BTW, what's the break-even point for the dreaded "carbon footprint" of just one of those goofy windmills?

 

[Bfgrn]

Nice non sequitur.

If "alternative energy" could stand on its own two feet, it wouldn't need jillions of taxpayer subsidies to prop it up.

Besides that, there's nothing new about boiling water or spinning armatures to create energy.

Like it or not, oil, coal and natural gas are the fuels of today.

Hey Jethro, do we subsidize the oil industries? Take your time...

 

[Bfgrn]

Good...Let 'em spend their money on that crap.

BTW, what's the break-even point for the dreaded "carbon footprint" of just one of those goofy windmills?

Hey Jethro, name ONE industry that emits only carbon dioxide. Just one will do.

 

[westwall]

Hey, to all you regressive right wing Einsteins...meet you daddies.

Here is a news flash...heavy manufacturing will never come back to America. The only way new jobs can be created is through new technologies, like green. But carry on because energy independence is EVIL and pollution is wonderful.

Wow, you really are clueless aren't you? Green technology requires heavy manufacturing doofus or do you think those 200 foot wind towers grow out of your hiney?

 

[Oddball]

Good...Let 'em spend their money on that crap.

BTW, what's the break-even point for the dreaded "carbon footprint" of just one of those goofy windmills?

Hey Jethro, name ONE industry that emits only carbon dioxide. Just one will do.

Those stupid windmills need metals engineering, carbon fiber technology, lubricants and transportation to erect them....All powered by conventional fuels.

Enviro-wackaloon fool.

 

[westwall]

America gets a large part, if not most, of its imported oil from Canada and Mexico, fool.

Of course, we could be drilling right here in America, but environmentalist moonbats like you will have none of that.

Of course, we could be expanding alternative energy but then those who can't imagine replacing over two century old technology (combustion engine) will never have none of that. I'm amazed these folks have computers, cell phone, IPods, microwaves etc; all products of the great technological revolution. Funny how that great revolution didn't spread to eliminating oil dependency for our energy.

Wrong again Tojo. We would LOVE to be able to quit using oil for propulsion, absolutely love it, it is a waste of a wonderful commodity. However, until alternative propulsion technologies come on line that are as efficient as oil based existing techs, it won't happen. People can't afford to spend 40 grand on a limited use vehicle. Those vehicles are for rich folks to play with. That's all. EV's will be three times more expensive to run than a comperable ICE vehicle until gasoline hits 15 dollars a gallon. That's reality. Reality trumps good intentions every single time because the regular people have to deal with reality every second of every day.

 

[Oddball]

Nice non sequitur.

If "alternative energy" could stand on its own two feet, it wouldn't need jillions of taxpayer subsidies to prop it up.

Besides that, there's nothing new about boiling water or spinning armatures to create energy.

Like it or not, oil, coal and natural gas are the fuels of today.

Hey Jethro, do we subsidize the oil industries? Take your time...

The churlish cry of "but moommmm they're doing it tooooo" is an irrelevant red herring.

Stupid shit like converting corn into ETOH is a net energy loss, which ends up expending even more of those eeeeevil conventional fuels you whackjobs profess to detest so much.

 

[westwall]

Did you hear, they invented a thing called a wheel!!!! Some people bit into Big Oil's line of BS.

U.S. seen losing renewable energy race to Asia

Reuters) - Several Asian countries in addition to China could soon challenge the United States in the race to build a renewable energy industry if Washington doesn't provide more incentives for its domestic business, venture capitalists and others told a Congressional hearing on Wednesday.

The United States, once the world's leader in energy innovation, is now also "challenged and threatened" by India, South Korea, Malaysia and the Philippines, because it is not providing enough incentives to fund development of alternative energy and to increase demand, Ravi Viswanathan, a partner at New Enterprise Associates told a hearing chaired by U.S. Representative Ed Markey

"These nations have outpaced the U.S. in recruiting, incenting and developing domestic manufacturing of solar, wind, and battery technology," he said.

China already has more than half of the world's market for solar panels and its companies are looking to export wind turbines.

The Senate failed to pass a climate bill this year that would put a price on carbon emissions, so it must pass laws that would create demand for alternative energy or fall further behind, experts told the panel.

Senator Jeff Bingaman introduced a bill this week that would require utilities to generate minimum amounts of alternative energy through a federal Renewable Electricity Standard, or RES, but the legislation faces an uncertain future.

U.S. seen losing renewable energy race to Asia | Reuters

It seems that it's only in America, where alternative energy can't stand on it's own feet. So let's not be progressive and lose out to the advancements that other countries are taking advantage of regarding alternative energy.
Let's continue to think that we must stay in the stone age.

Good. Let them go broke. We will then, for once, get to reverse engineer the stuff that actually worked and not waste our money figuring out which ones don't.

 

[Oddball]

BTW...How many of those "new jobs" aren't regulators and other bureaucrats?

 

[kiwiman127]

America gets a large part, if not most, of its imported oil from Canada and Mexico, fool.

Of course, we could be drilling right here in America, but environmentalist moonbats like you will have none of that.

Of course, we could be expanding alternative energy but then those who can't imagine replacing over two century old technology (combustion engine) will never have none of that. I'm amazed these folks have computers, cell phone, IPods, microwaves etc; all products of the great technological revolution. Funny how that great revolution didn't spread to eliminating oil dependency for our energy.

Wrong again Tojo. We would LOVE to be able to quit using oil for propulsion, absolutely love it, it is a waste of a wonderful commodity. However, until alternative propulsion technologies come on line that are as efficient as oil based existing techs, it won't happen. People can't afford to spend 40 grand on a limited use vehicle. Those vehicles are for rich folks to play with. That's all. EV's will be three times more expensive to run than a comperable ICE vehicle until gasoline hits 15 dollars a gallon. That's reality. Reality trumps good intentions every single time because the regular people have to deal with reality every second of every day.

I'm not saying that we should go cold turkey with oil.
Like the rest of the industrial countries of the world, the US should be incorporating alternative energy into the energy structure. Relying so heavily on oil is stupid and weakens the US's security.
I have never seen the concept of "putting all your eggs in one basket" work long-term. Yet, there are those who's little minds wants to stay the course as the rest of the world passes us by.

 

[westwall]

Of course, we could be expanding alternative energy but then those who can't imagine replacing over two century old technology (combustion engine) will never have none of that. I'm amazed these folks have computers, cell phone, IPods, microwaves etc; all products of the great technological revolution. Funny how that great revolution didn't spread to eliminating oil dependency for our energy.

Wrong again Tojo. We would LOVE to be able to quit using oil for propulsion, absolutely love it, it is a waste of a wonderful commodity. However, until alternative propulsion technologies come on line that are as efficient as oil based existing techs, it won't happen. People can't afford to spend 40 grand on a limited use vehicle. Those vehicles are for rich folks to play with. That's all. EV's will be three times more expensive to run than a comperable ICE vehicle until gasoline hits 15 dollars a gallon. That's reality. Reality trumps good intentions every single time because the regular people have to deal with reality every second of every day.

I'm not saying that we should go cold turkey with oil.
Like the rest of the industrial countries of the world, the US should be incorporating alternative energy into the energy structure. Relying so heavily on oil is stupid and weakens the US's security.
I have never seen the concept of "putting all your eggs in one basket" work long-term. Yet, there are those who's little minds wants to stay the course as the rest of the world passes us by.

You are grossly misinformed. There is no putting your eggs all in one basket mentality. What there is is a revulsion of wasting hard earned money on pie in the sky ideals. Obama just recently gave over 500 million American tax dollars to a San Jose solar company that is now closing plants they said they wouldn't and moving their production to CHINA. In other words they are taking our tax dollars and giving it to the Chinese!

That is the type of waste that needs to stop. Your idealogies are great, they just also happen to be unsustainable with the current technologies. Something which you folks refuse to believe.

 

[Oddball]

BTW...How many of those "new jobs" aren't regulators and other bureaucrats?

 

[Bfgrn]

Nice non sequitur.

If "alternative energy" could stand on its own two feet, it wouldn't need jillions of taxpayer subsidies to prop it up.

Besides that, there's nothing new about boiling water or spinning armatures to create energy.

Like it or not, oil, coal and natural gas are the fuels of today.

Hey Jethro, do we subsidize the oil industries? Take your time...

The churlish cry of "but moommmm they're doing it tooooo" is an irrelevant red herring.

Stupid shit like converting corn into ETOH is a net energy loss, which ends up expending even more of those eeeeevil conventional fuels you whackjobs profess to detest so much.

What's the matter Jethro, does my question use too many big words? Do we or don't we subsidize the oil industry? Ask mommy...

 

[kiwiman127]

Wrong again Tojo. We would LOVE to be able to quit using oil for propulsion, absolutely love it, it is a waste of a wonderful commodity. However, until alternative propulsion technologies come on line that are as efficient as oil based existing techs, it won't happen. People can't afford to spend 40 grand on a limited use vehicle. Those vehicles are for rich folks to play with. That's all. EV's will be three times more expensive to run than a comperable ICE vehicle until gasoline hits 15 dollars a gallon. That's reality. Reality trumps good intentions every single time because the regular people have to deal with reality every second of every day.

I'm not saying that we should go cold turkey with oil.
Like the rest of the industrial countries of the world, the US should be incorporating alternative energy into the energy structure. Relying so heavily on oil is stupid and weakens the US's security.
I have never seen the concept of "putting all your eggs in one basket" work long-term. Yet, there are those who's little minds wants to stay the course as the rest of the world passes us by.

You are grossly misinformed. There is no putting your eggs all in one basket mentality. What there is is a revulsion of wasting hard earned money on pie in the sky ideals. Obama just recently gave over 500 million American tax dollars to a San Jose solar company that is now closing plants they said they wouldn't and moving their production to CHINA. In other words they are taking our tax dollars and giving it to the Chinese!

That is the type of waste that needs to stop. Your idealogies are great, they just also happen to be unsustainable with the current technologies. Something which you folks refuse to believe.

Aren't the countries mentioned in the linked article the ones taking US jobs? International corporations want to be in progressive countries, countries who are updating their infrastructure for the future and the long-term is appealing to them.

 

[westwall]

Hey Jethro, do we subsidize the oil industries? Take your time...

The churlish cry of "but moommmm they're doing it tooooo" is an irrelevant red herring.

Stupid shit like converting corn into ETOH is a net energy loss, which ends up expending even more of those eeeeevil conventional fuels you whackjobs profess to detest so much.

What's the matter Jethro, does my question use too many big words? Do we or don't we subsidize the oil industry? Ask mommy...

Does the oil industry generate a useful commodity that is more efficient then any "green" technology by a factor of three? Is it a product that is vital to the continued operation of this country? In other words if all the green technology in the world disappeared right now would anybody notice? How about the oil industry?

 

[westwall]

I'm not saying that we should go cold turkey with oil.
Like the rest of the industrial countries of the world, the US should be incorporating alternative energy into the energy structure. Relying so heavily on oil is stupid and weakens the US's security.
I have never seen the concept of "putting all your eggs in one basket" work long-term. Yet, there are those who's little minds wants to stay the course as the rest of the world passes us by.

You are grossly misinformed. There is no putting your eggs all in one basket mentality. What there is is a revulsion of wasting hard earned money on pie in the sky ideals. Obama just recently gave over 500 million American tax dollars to a San Jose solar company that is now closing plants they said they wouldn't and moving their production to CHINA. In other words they are taking our tax dollars and giving it to the Chinese!

That is the type of waste that needs to stop. Your idealogies are great, they just also happen to be unsustainable with the current technologies. Something which you folks refuse to believe.

Aren't the countries mentioned in the linked article the ones taking US jobs? International corporations want to be in progressive countries, countries who are updating their infrastructure for the future and the long-term is appealing to them.

Are you really that uninformed? I am not trying to beat you up, I'm just astonished. The reason why industry is moving to China is because China pays its factory workers .57 cents an hour while you're minimum wage for a worker here is 7.25 an hour. But that won't hire you a factory worker they start at around 15 an hour for a broom pusher.

Progressivism has nothing to do with the move to China and India. It has to do with cheap labor.

 

[kiwiman127]

The churlish cry of "but moommmm they're doing it tooooo" is an irrelevant red herring.

Stupid shit like converting corn into ETOH is a net energy loss, which ends up expending even more of those eeeeevil conventional fuels you whackjobs profess to detest so much.

What's the matter Jethro, does my question use too many big words? Do we or don't we subsidize the oil industry? Ask mommy...

Does the oil industry generate a useful commodity that is more efficient then any "green" technology by a factor of three? Is it a product that is vital to the continued operation of this country? In other words if all the green technology in the world disappeared right now would anybody notice? How about the oil industry?

Oh, you should ask the country that will soon take over the Number 1 spot as the world's biggest economy,,,,China! China has invested unbelievable amounts of money on alternative energy to accelerate their growth and become less reliant on oil. India is also following the same pattern as China. I guess these countries with growing economies aren't as smart as you and are ill-informed.
While folks like yourself wallow in the old status quo, the rest of the world is catching up, poised to pass us by.
Don't believe me, go to Google and look it up. It's happening and happening now.

 

[Old Rocks]

Hmmm...... and when would we be recharging electric cars?

Bonneville's retired vice president talks solar, part 2 : Clean Energy Authority

The role of solar in Oregon will compliment both the wind and hydroelectric generation already in place, according to Norman. He explained that the near future of new energy development will continue to include wind and hydroelectric.

“There’s a little more hydroelectric to develop,” he said. “That’s not going to be the big new resource. It’s going to continue to be a huge resource, but it’s not going to grow that much. I think wind is going to continue to grow. Its economics are currently much better than solar. Hopefully solar is going to come on and be a big contributor.”

That’s partly because the majority of wind power in the state is located in one area, the Columbia River Gorge, which has no shortage of hydroelectric plants.

“Wind, by its nature, goes on and off, but out in the plains where it’s spread out over hundreds and thousands of miles, it’s unlikely that all the wind turbines are going to go on and off at once,” he said. “But here it’s much more volatile, they’re much more all-on or all-off, and that creates a much bigger challenge to manage, so you have to have the rest of the power system flex around the wind.”

With 3 gigawatts of wind concentrated in one area and large hydroelectric dams, the state’s energy mix already is experiencing some growing pains.

“It’s getting to the point where at nighttime—at certain points of the year—if the wind’s blowing, we’re getting more power generated by the wind plus the minimum hydro than there is load,” he said. “So Bonneville, just this past spring, had to give massive amounts of power away just to find enough load to absorb all this power that was being generated.”

Norman said one way to fix this would be to spread out the wind turbines. But that’s just one potential solution.

“Another solution is solar,” he said. “Where you supplement your wind base with solar, which isn’t going to be generating on the exact same cycle as wind. And I don’t think there’s a huge correlation between when the wind blows and when the sun shines.”

Adding more solar to Oregon’s electricity generation mix will help reduce the need for more flexibility demanded of the state’s hydroelec

 

[westwall]

What's the matter Jethro, does my question use too many big words? Do we or don't we subsidize the oil industry? Ask mommy...

Does the oil industry generate a useful commodity that is more efficient then any "green" technology by a factor of three? Is it a product that is vital to the continued operation of this country? In other words if all the green technology in the world disappeared right now would anybody notice? How about the oil industry?

Oh, you should ask the country that will soon take over the Number 1 spot as the world's biggest economy,,,,China! China has invested unbelievable amounts of money on alternative energy to accelerate their growth and become less reliant on oil. India is also following the same pattern as China. I guess these countries with growing economies aren't as smart as you and are ill-informed.
While folks like yourself wallow in the old status quo, the rest of the world is catching up, poised to pass us by.
Don't believe me, go to Google and look it up. It's happening and happening now.

They are also building a coal powered power plant every week, or did you just not bother to mention that little factoid? As for the rest, let them. We have invested billions of dollars in tech research only to have them steal it. Now it's our turn.