How NSA tracks you and why it's illegal.

[the other mike]

August 2017
William "Bill" Binney, former NSA technical director on how NSA track you.

 

[the other mike]

 

[the other mike]

In a nutshell, the reason it's illegal is because they're doing it in secrecy which is a blatant violation of the 4th Amendment. They also share data with other agencies - take your pick; DHS, FBI, CIA, DEA, IRS and on and on- who are capable of bypassing search and arrest warrants using parallel construction and other dirty tricks.

 

[the other mike]

Doing it in secrecy. Bush lied about it and so did Obama .

 

[Dan Stubbs]

In a nutshell, the reason it's illegal is because they're doing it secrecy which is a blatant violation of the 4th Amendment. They also share data with other agencies - take your pick; DHS, FBI, CIA, DEA, IRS and on and on- who are capable of bypassing search and arrest warrants using parallel construction and other dirty tricks.

One thing you must understand the Law. Cops have restrictions on how they can gather evidence. The can not break into your house except in fresh pursuit. But a normal citizen can enter your house and get evidence and get it to the LEOs. If caught they can be arrested but if unknown they face no charges. So anything you do can be traced. Your car, your computer, (unless you are smart) your postings. E,t,c. You can always take the Clinton's I don't remember".

 

[the other mike]

In a nutshell, the reason it's illegal is because they're doing it secrecy which is a blatant violation of the 4th Amendment. They also share data with other agencies - take your pick; DHS, FBI, CIA, DEA, IRS and on and on- who are capable of bypassing search and arrest warrants using parallel construction and other dirty tricks.

One thing you must understand the Law. Cops have restrictions on how they can gather evidence. The can not break into your house except in fresh pursuit. But a normal citizen can enter your house and get evidence and get it to the LEOs. If caught they can be arrested but if unknown they face no charges. So anything you do can be traced. Your car, your computer, (unless you are smart) your postings. E,t,c. You can always take the Clinton's I don't remember".

There's a reason NSA built three gigantic data processing centers in Maryland, Texas and Utah. Plus one in UK and one in Australia ( that I know of) And the satellites have nano-technology ( they can see what kind of tomatoes you're growing if they want )...people have no idea what they're capable of.

 

[the other mike]

Most Americans don't know what the 4th Amendment is, much less that it's being completely violated right under our noses. For over 20 years btw....since way before 9/11.

 

[Natural Citizen]

The second you agree to the terms of service from whatever provider you're using you consent to it.

End of the day it's like this. Don't ever say anything on the Internet that you wouldn't be perfectly comfortable saying in a courtroom and all will be well.

 

[the other mike]

The second you agree to the terms of service from whatever provider you're using you consent to it.

You don't seem to understand.
They're collecting and storing everything...it doesn't matter what anyone signs or not. Sure you can throw away your devices and go live off the grid in Montana but they'll still see what kind of tomatoes you're growing from the nano-technology satellite surveillance.

 

[Natural Citizen]

Angelo, you're preaching to the choir, brother.

Just imagine how it'll get when the moderate vote gets us a biometric National ID. Heck, we don't even have to imagine. All we have to do is go read past legislation. Our elected ones pretty much said they've left the legislation open-ended so that the intelligence agencies can add to the biometric database whatever they want later on if they believe it's a matter of security. They'll have access to our whole lives. And by their own order. If we recall, security is why we see law-abiding Americans with their pants dropped down below their ankles at the airport by order of a man with a gun from the government. They're even so bold as to put predrawn footprints where they want us to stand. Security is why we have stop and frisk. Among other things. Yes indeed the terrorists hate us for our freedoms. But it's those terrorist cells in Washington DC who hate them the most. The fact that they're the only ones attacking them should be clear to all.

Oh, I understand alright. Ha.

The problem is that the people love them for it. And that's an uphill battle. People who participate in coercion understand very little of its function or their participation in its function. And they know absolutely nothing of its consequence until it's too late and their usefulness has run its course and served its purpose. Only then will they realize they were just another useful idiot who will ultimately suffer under the same tyrannical hammer they helped put everyone else under. This is the moderate vote. Make no mistake about that. It's the most dangerous faction in America to our civil liberties today. They're the ones who bring us all of the bad anti-liberty legislation coming out of both parties in Washington. And all under the foolish illusion of compromise. To their credit, they really don't understand their role in it. The really don't. After all, the media popularizes the idea of being a moderate. And people want to be led rather than think it through themselves. As a consequence we get a steady stream of how wonderful it is to be a moderate because people generally just repeat what they hear. So, we educate rather than engage in useless quarrels. It's all we can do. Our audience is the casual passer-by. Remember that.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

In a nutshell, the reason it's illegal is because they're doing it secrecy which is a blatant violation of the 4th Amendment. They also share data with other agencies - take your pick; DHS, FBI, CIA, DEA, IRS and on and on- who are capable of bypassing search and arrest warrants using parallel construction and other dirty tricks.

Wrong.

The Supreme Court has never held that the surveillance programs violate the Fourth Amendment.

Indeed, in 2013 the Court reaffirmed the fact that simply because one might think, feel, or believe the surveillance programs are illegal, doesn’t make them so:

‘“Although imminence is concededly a somewhat elastic concept, it cannot be stretched beyond its purpose, which is to ensure that the alleged injury is not too speculative for Article III purposes--that the injury is certainly impending.” Id., at 565, n. 2, 112 S. Ct. 2130, 119 L. Ed. 2d 351 (internal quotation marks omitted). Thus, we have repeatedly reiterated that “threatened injury must be certainly impending to constitute injury in fact,” and that “[a]llegations of possible future injury” are not sufficient.’ Clapper v. Amnesty Int'l USA

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Doing it in secrecy. Bush lied about it and so did Obama .

Which is a political issue, not legal – beyond the purview of the courts.

And because the surveillance programs are not illegal, the remedy is through the political process.

Whether the programs are being conducted in secret or not is irrelevant.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

“Most Americans don't know what the 4th Amendment is…”

…including the OP.

 

[the other mike]

Angelo, you're preaching to the choir, brother.

Just imagine how it'll get when the moderate vote gets us a National ID. Heck, we don't even have to imagine. All we have to do is go read past legislation. Our elected ones pretty much said they've left the legislation open-ended so that the intelligence agencies can add to the biometric database whatever they want later on if they believe it's a matter of security. They'll have access to our whole lives. If we recall, security is why we see law-abiding Americans with their pants dropped down below their ankles at the airport by order of a man with a gun from the government. They're even so bold as to put predrawn footprints where they want us to stand. Security is why we have stop and frisk. Among other things. Yes indeed the terrorists hate us for our freedoms. But it's those terrorist cells in Washington DC who hate them the most. The fact that they're the only ones attacking them should be clear to all.

Oh, I understand alright. Ha.

The problem is that the people love them for it. And that's an uphill battle. People who participate in coercion understand very little of its function or their participation in its function. And they know absolutely nothing of its consequence until it's too late and their usefulness has served its purpose. Only then will they realize they were just another useful idiot who will ultimately suffer under the same tyrannical hammer they helped put everyone else under. This is the moderate vote. Make no mistake about that. It's the most dangerous faction in America to our civil liberties today. They're the ones who bring us all of the bad anti-liberty legislation coming out of both parties in Washington. And all under the foolish illusion of compromise. To their credit, they really don't understand their role in it. The really don't. After all, the media popularizes the idea of being a moderate. So, we educate rather than engage in useless quarrels. It's all we can do. Our audience is the casual passer-by. Remember that.

It's why Snowden had to exit...he saw what they ( Congress & the Intel Agencies) did to Thomas Drake.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

The second you agree to the terms of service from whatever provider you're using you consent to it.

End of the day it's like this. Don't ever say anything on the Internet that you wouldn't be perfectly comfortable saying in a courtroom and all will be well.

Or not.

The NSA and other such agencies have no interest in subjecting private individuals to criminal prosecution – it would be a waste of their time and resources and compromise the surveillance programs they administer.

And if the government were to pursue criminal proceedings against a private citizen based on information from a surveillance sweep – evidence obtained absent a warrant – the case would be dismissed on 4th Amendment grounds.

The government is at liberty to spy, surveil, and gather information as it wishes; it becomes a legal issue with 4th and 5th Amendment implications only when the government seeks to take the life or liberty of a citizen.

Opposed to the surveillance programs? Want to see them gone?

No problem – just vote out of office any and all politicians who support the programs.



(good luck…)

 

[Natural Citizen]

The Supreme Court has never held that the surveillance programs violate the Fourth Amendment.

I wouldn't give a bucket of piss to hear what the SCOTUS has to say about the Constitution. The notion that unelected judges can overrule the other two branches (but not vice versa) needs to be addressed.

Go find judicial review in Article III and get back to us.

We'll wait.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

The second you agree to the terms of service from whatever provider you're using you consent to it.

You don't seem to understand.
They're collecting and storing everything...it doesn't matter what anyone signs or not. Sure you can throw away your devices and go live off the grid in Montana but they'll still see what kind of tomatoes you're growing from the nano-technology satellite surveillance.

View attachment 243732
View attachment 243733

And?

When Federal authorities start arresting people because of what kind of tomatoes they’re growing, get back to us.

Absent that, this is not a legal or 4th Amendment issue, it’s a political issue.

 

[Natural Citizen]

When Federal authorities start arresting people because of what kind of tomatoes they’re growing, get back to us.

The owner of a Venice health food market and two other people were arrested on charges related to the allegedly unlawful production and sale of unpasteurized dairy products, a spokesman for the Los Angeles County district attorney's office said.

Federal agents organize a sting operation against a tiny raw milk buying club.


Now. Judicial review. Article III. Go find it.

We'll wait.

 

[the other mike]

And?

When Federal authorities start arresting people because of what kind of tomatoes they’re growing, get back to us.

Absent that, this is not a legal or 4th Amendment issue, it’s a political issue.

If you don't even get that analogy, why are you in this conversation ?

 

[the other mike]

Since the NSA has been in the news lately, here's a fun and therapeutic (for me )look back at the first thread I ever started here .*

Court Ruling Shows How FBI Abused NSA Mass Surveillance


* I made it sound like I've been here for years when it's only been 10 months.