How much should health care cost? Should it cost anything?

[RDD_1210]

And for the record, i am alright with people dying.

There it is, a real "compassionate conservative".

How sad are you? I hope you never lose your job and have to face the struggles of the real world. You might actually be required to use your brain then.....would go right along with your lack of heart.

For the record, are you a religious person?

No, i came from the medical end. Compassion comes in many forms. Letting people die is very compassionate.

Right, if i lose my job i will automatically EXPECT/demand the government feed, house, clothe me and pay my medical bills.

Thanks for making it known what kind of person you are. Uninformed and selfish. Be proud.

 

[Bern80]

*Sigh* It's almost as if you read nothing I posted in this thread. If there was no mandate, would you have any other issues with this legislation? You keep going back to the mandate and I dont understand how this possibly could actually bother you, it seems like arguing just to argue. The mandate is such a tiny piece of the whole thing that truly doesn't change a thing for an overwhelming majority of people.

Other problems with it would be it doesn't address costs. It doesn't address supply of resources. It creates an unfair market place for insurance. Why would I purchase insurance until I get sick if an insurance company can't penalize me for it? Those are just a few of the 'other' issues.

And the mandate is a HUGE deal. How you can not see the precedent for nearly unlimited government power, especially for a government that was meant to be limited, is beyond me. I don't get it. Is the constitution just a guide to some people and they think it just isn't important we abide by it or what? Are people missing the forest for the trees where this mandate is concerned? Am I the only one concerned with a government that have been granted the power to make its citizens buy things.

 

[urdrwho]

Excuse me?!!!?!?!

America was founded and grew as a great nation based upon individualism. It was not based on Socialist beliefs and was far from most of the European model of governing. It was not based upon taking money from you to pay for my stuff....period

Now we do have a crop of people that feel government should be taking from others but that isn't what most American's feel. I don't know where you went to school but we are a Republican form of government based upon Constitutional law.

There are many people that push for the legal theft so that they can sit around and do what they enjoy such as play guitar and paint all day and still get the same benefits as the guy digging a ditch. Sorry, I don't believe in that model. If I did I would be sitting around playing my guitars and not dealing with the work-a-day stress.

People that aren't producing DO NOT deserve the same life style as the guy 5 feet down in that ditch, muddy boots and sweat on his brow.

No you spend all the money in the world to save them. To accept your premises that we are a community is based on socialist thought. It IS up to the individual to fund his ow existence. If my work in life doesn't allow me to travel to another country for a certain procedure, that is life. Yep...I could die but it is due to my hand, my work, my own financial situation that was created by my hand. It isn't determined by taking money from you to fix my situation in life. Why is that so hard to understand?

It is the way of natural and very natural. This entitlement situation is a rather new experiment in the history of man and it is going to fail. You will see people in the streets because they are accustomed to living off the benefit of other people hard work. It has thrown nature all out of balance and one thing Darwin was correct about was survival of the fittest.

Ok, so I'll ask again.....for those that can't afford health care, what should they do? Suffer and die? Your whole case is severely flawed unless of course you truly are ok with people just dying if they don't have enough money. Then well, there is no point in discussing this with you any further.

How American of you. "Don't have money, f' you & die". Thanks for letting us know what kind of person you are. Be proud of yourself.

 

[RDD_1210]

*Sigh* It's almost as if you read nothing I posted in this thread. If there was no mandate, would you have any other issues with this legislation? You keep going back to the mandate and I dont understand how this possibly could actually bother you, it seems like arguing just to argue. The mandate is such a tiny piece of the whole thing that truly doesn't change a thing for an overwhelming majority of people.

Other problems with it would be it doesn't address costs. It doesn't address supply of resources. It creates an unfair market place for insurance. Why would I purchase insurance until I get sick if an insurance company can't penalize me for it? Those are just a few of the 'other' issues.

We addressed how this would lower costs. It could go further by introducing real competition, but the public option was killed. But we talked about how costs are addressed. And your grand plan to go without insurance until you need it is a non-issue since you will only be able to sign up for insurance during open enrollment periods thus no one can game the system. So any actual problems that you have or are you just arguing now to argue?

And the mandate is a HUGE deal. How you can not see the precedent for nearly unlimited government power, especially for a government that was meant to be limited, is beyond me. I don't get it. Is the constitution just a guide to some people and they think it just isn't important we abide by it or what? Are people missing the forest for the trees where this mandate is concerned? Am I the only one concerned with a government that have been granted the power to make its citizens buy things.

How does the mandate give government more power? Does the government have power over the auto industry because people are required to have auto insurance to be able to drive? Again, you're making a issue out of something that is not an issue. Would you not buy insurance if you were given the option? Would you be ok with me not buying insurance and then going to the ER so you can pay for my healthcare costs?

 

[RDD_1210]

Excuse me?!!!?!?!

America was founded and grew as a great nation based upon individualism. It was not based on Socialist beliefs and was far from most of the European model of governing. It was not based upon taking money from you to pay for my stuff....period

Now we do have a crop of people that feel government should be taking from others but that isn't what most American's feel. I don't know where you went to school but we are a Republican form of government based upon Constitutional law.

There are many people that push for the legal theft so that they can sit around and do what they enjoy such as play guitar and paint all day and still get the same benefits as the guy digging a ditch. Sorry, I don't believe in that model. If I did I would be sitting around playing my guitars and not dealing with the work-a-day stress.

People that aren't producing DO NOT deserve the same life style as the guy 5 feet down in that ditch, muddy boots and sweat on his brow.

No you spend all the money in the world to save them. To accept your premises that we are a community is based on socialist thought. It IS up to the individual to fund his ow existence. If my work in life doesn't allow me to travel to another country for a certain procedure, that is life. Yep...I could die but it is due to my hand, my work, my own financial situation that was created by my hand. It isn't determined by taking money from you to fix my situation in life. Why is that so hard to understand?

It is the way of natural and very natural. This entitlement situation is a rather new experiment in the history of man and it is going to fail. You will see people in the streets because they are accustomed to living off the benefit of other people hard work. It has thrown nature all out of balance and one thing Darwin was correct about was survival of the fittest.

How American of you. "Don't have money, f' you & die". Thanks for letting us know what kind of person you are. Be proud of yourself.

Actually this country was found as "WE the people.." Not "I, the person". People that are not "producing" don't deserve the same life style as those who do, but they do deserve life.

 

[syrenn]

Excuse me?!!!?!?!

America was founded and grew as a great nation based upon individualism. It was not based on Socialist beliefs and was far from most of the European model of governing. It was not based upon taking money from you to pay for my stuff....period

Now we do have a crop of people that feel government should be taking from others but that isn't what most American's feel. I don't know where you went to school but we are a Republican form of government based upon Constitutional law.

There are many people that push for the legal theft so that they can sit around and do what they enjoy such as play guitar and paint all day and still get the same benefits as the guy digging a ditch. Sorry, I don't believe in that model. If I did I would be sitting around playing my guitars and not dealing with the work-a-day stress.

People that aren't producing DO NOT deserve the same life style as the guy 5 feet down in that ditch, muddy boots and sweat on his brow.

How American of you. "Don't have money, f' you & die". Thanks for letting us know what kind of person you are. Be proud of yourself.

Actually this country was found as "WE the people.." Not "I, the person". People that are not "producing" don't deserve the same life style as those who do, but they do deserve life.

Life is not medical insurance.

I agree that they deserve life and to live.

 

[RDD_1210]

Excuse me?!!!?!?!

America was founded and grew as a great nation based upon individualism. It was not based on Socialist beliefs and was far from most of the European model of governing. It was not based upon taking money from you to pay for my stuff....period

Now we do have a crop of people that feel government should be taking from others but that isn't what most American's feel. I don't know where you went to school but we are a Republican form of government based upon Constitutional law.

There are many people that push for the legal theft so that they can sit around and do what they enjoy such as play guitar and paint all day and still get the same benefits as the guy digging a ditch. Sorry, I don't believe in that model. If I did I would be sitting around playing my guitars and not dealing with the work-a-day stress.

People that aren't producing DO NOT deserve the same life style as the guy 5 feet down in that ditch, muddy boots and sweat on his brow.

Actually this country was found as "WE the people.." Not "I, the person". People that are not "producing" don't deserve the same life style as those who do, but they do deserve life.

Life is not medical insurance.

Medical insurance is how you get healthcare in this country...unfortunately.

 

[syrenn]

Actually this country was found as "WE the people.." Not "I, the person". People that are not "producing" don't deserve the same life style as those who do, but they do deserve life.

Life is not medical insurance.

Medical insurance is how you get healthcare in this country...unfortunately.

you can have life.

Without health care or insurance.

 

[RDD_1210]

Life is not medical insurance.

Medical insurance is how you get healthcare in this country...unfortunately.

you can have life.

Without health care or insurance.

Not if you get sick, which everyone eventually does. Next ridiculous argument?

 

[syrenn]

Medical insurance is how you get healthcare in this country...unfortunately.

you can have life.

Without health care or insurance.

Not if you get sick, which everyone eventually does. Next ridiculous argument?

I know everyone gets sick. It is still life.

 

[RDD_1210]

you can have life.

Without health care or insurance.

Not if you get sick, which everyone eventually does. Next ridiculous argument?

I know everyone gets sick. It is still life.

Ok, are we done? You're obviously just trying to be difficult. One minute you're ok with everyone dying, then you are all for life. You make no sense and I don't care about trying to understand you anymore. I'm off, have a good weekend.

 

[Intense]

Not if you get sick, which everyone eventually does. Next ridiculous argument?

I know everyone gets sick. It is still life.

Ok, are we done? You're obviously just trying to be difficult. One minute you're ok with everyone dying, then you are all for life. You make no sense and I don't care about trying to understand you anymore. I'm off, have a good weekend.

I see you as the one caught up in emotion, you abandoned reason way back.We Each have the Right to Pursue Happiness. There are few guarantees in life friend. Turn on the news right now if you doubt that. Part of our security is based on who we are and what we do as Individual Beings, Each of us , key word "Each". I am not your property. If I find myself unprepared to face the day because of a burden you placed on me, how is that helpful to Society? There is no substitute for Skill. Entitlement is a scam, a perversion, nothing more. The Parasite has outgrown It's host. Open up your eyes.

 

[syrenn]

Not if you get sick, which everyone eventually does. Next ridiculous argument?

I know everyone gets sick. It is still life.

Ok, are we done? You're obviously just trying to be difficult. One minute you're ok with everyone dying, then you are all for life. You make no sense and I don't care about trying to understand you anymore. I'm off, have a good weekend.

How thick are you?

Everyone is entitled to their lives. To do with as they see fit. To live as they choose. That is life.

Life is not guarantee to entitlements or handouts. It is not a guarantee to health care or insurance. It is not a guarantee to being free from pain, illness and death. It is not a guarantee that the government is going to stop your pain, heal your sickness and save you from death.

Your life is yours, not the governments.


If you want health care pay for it.

 

[Bern80]

We addressed how this would lower costs. It could go further by introducing real competition, but the public option was killed. But we talked about how costs are addressed. And your grand plan to go without insurance until you need it is a non-issue since you will only be able to sign up for insurance during open enrollment periods thus no one can game the system. So any actual problems that you have or are you just arguing now to argue?

Sorry RDD, but what Obamacare plans to do defies economic concepts that tell
us under what conditions costs fall. They don't fall when options become more limited for example.

How does the mandate give government more power? Does the government have power over the auto industry because people are required to have auto insurance to be able to drive? Again, you're making a issue out of something that is not an issue. Would you not buy insurance if you were given the option? Would you be ok with me not buying insurance and then going to the ER so you can pay for my healthcare costs?

o
Stop being so damn close minded. The options are not all of us buy health insurance your I pay or health care bills. How does it give government more power? Are you fucking serious? The federal government, according to the constitution, does not have the authority to make people buy things. Now it would. How much clearer does that need to made for you. What if the issue was not healthcare. What if the issue was the environment and it was mandated by government that everyone had to buy a Prius? That okay with you too?

 

[Big Fitz]

That's what I would like to know. Because the more liberal support and arguments you read for Obamacare or single payer or UHC, it seems that the left doesnt' really want health care to cost less, they want it to cost nothing to the consumer. That concept needs to be addresssed. Tackling the cost to the consumer and lowering it has one set of possible solutions. Making it cost nothing or something government funded through taxes requires another set of solutions.

So out with it libs. Is health care something you should pay directly for? Or is it something government should provide through taxes?

Have you ever hear the terms: You get what you pay for and nothing in life is free?

Nothing in life is free. Someone always pays for it. It may be great for some not having to pay for any health care, but trust me, someone IS paying for it. Not them of course and that is all they care about.

I laugh when we have strikes here and the sticking point is how much their copay will go up. Fine, please don't pay your copay and pay the entire cost of the bill. Works for me.

So whine about copays. Boohoo they go up. Copays are a fraction of the true cost of medical care and services.

I am SICK of the whining about health care. Pay for it.

Should government pay for your health care. In my opinion NO.

Ban 3rd party payee systems. Most of the problems will evaporate in a few short years because nobody in their right mind will pay 20 bucks for an aspirin, or 20k for an MRI. These companies got fat and bloated because there was very little oversight or care when people thought they could get health care 'for free' if their employer or government provided it.

For the rest of the problems, make malpractice suits a 'loser pays' (should do this for all civil cases anyway) and that will drop malpractice insurance into the dirt AND end ambulance chasers. Two goods accomplished.

 

[Big Fitz]

There it is, a real "compassionate conservative".

How sad are you? I hope you never lose your job and have to face the struggles of the real world. You might actually be required to use your brain then.....would go right along with your lack of heart.

For the record, are you a religious person?

No, i came from the medical end. Compassion comes in many forms. Letting people die is very compassionate.

Right, if i lose my job i will automatically EXPECT/demand the government feed, house, clothe me and pay my medical bills.

Thanks for making it known what kind of person you are. Uninformed and selfish. Be proud.

Why wait to lose your job? Quit. Why achieve when you are entitled to the fruits of other's labor?

 

[RDD_1210]

No, i came from the medical end. Compassion comes in many forms. Letting people die is very compassionate.

Right, if i lose my job i will automatically EXPECT/demand the government feed, house, clothe me and pay my medical bills.

Thanks for making it known what kind of person you are. Uninformed and selfish. Be proud.

Why wait to lose your job? Quit. Why achieve when you are entitled to the fruits of other's labor?

Another person who thinks we aren't already paying for everyones health care.

 

[RDD_1210]

We addressed how this would lower costs. It could go further by introducing real competition, but the public option was killed. But we talked about how costs are addressed. And your grand plan to go without insurance until you need it is a non-issue since you will only be able to sign up for insurance during open enrollment periods thus no one can game the system. So any actual problems that you have or are you just arguing now to argue?

Sorry RDD, but what Obamacare plans to do defies economic concepts that tell
us under what conditions costs fall. They don't fall when options become more limited for example.

How does the mandate give government more power? Does the government have power over the auto industry because people are required to have auto insurance to be able to drive? Again, you're making a issue out of something that is not an issue. Would you not buy insurance if you were given the option? Would you be ok with me not buying insurance and then going to the ER so you can pay for my healthcare costs?

o
Stop being so damn close minded. The options are not all of us buy health insurance your I pay or health care bills. How does it give government more power? Are you fucking serious? The federal government, according to the constitution, does not have the authority to make people buy things. Now it would. How much clearer does that need to made for you. What if the issue was not healthcare. What if the issue was the environment and it was mandated by government that everyone had to buy a Prius? That okay with you too?

I've shown repeatedly you have no basis for your opposition to health care reform that was passed. Everything you bring up, I show where you went wrong in your thinking. So now you're left with just calling it unconstitutional, which also isn't true. But you obviously don't care, you just want to hate this bill no matter what. Even though you've yet to show me anything in the way of any shape of logic or reason. Instead you cry about some mythical freedoms being lost.

 

[RDD_1210]

I know everyone gets sick. It is still life.

Ok, are we done? You're obviously just trying to be difficult. One minute you're ok with everyone dying, then you are all for life. You make no sense and I don't care about trying to understand you anymore. I'm off, have a good weekend.

How thick are you?

Everyone is entitled to their lives. To do with as they see fit. To live as they choose. That is life.

Life is not guarantee to entitlements or handouts. It is not a guarantee to health care or insurance. It is not a guarantee to being free from pain, illness and death. It is not a guarantee that the government is going to stop your pain, heal your sickness and save you from death.

Your life is yours, not the governments.


If you want health care pay for it.

You're cool with people dying just because they lack health insurance, so I'm done with you.

 

[Big Fitz]

Thanks for making it known what kind of person you are. Uninformed and selfish. Be proud.

Why wait to lose your job? Quit. Why achieve when you are entitled to the fruits of other's labor?

Another person who thinks we aren't already paying for everyones health care.

And you infer this how?

You're cool with people dying just because they lack health insurance, so I'm done with you.

When's the last time you stepped over the body of someone who died of "lack of health insurance". How fucking stupid is THAT statement?

The needs of one does not grant them the right to enslave another. Just because you're sick does not mean a doctor must treat you for nothing. Your right to healthcare includes only what you can personally provide without tools or training. After that, it's a matter of trade.

We don't have a healthcare crisis in this nation, we have a Deadbeat Crisis. People who want something for nothing.