How Much Should A Teacher Get Paid?

[Vanquish]

The whole idea of "we have to know what we can pay before we give you an amount" in the two posts above is poppycock. Sorry, but it is.

I agree that a school has to stay within its budget. No argument there...but you're looking at things backwards. If the value of the work of a teacher is X...and you hire 5 teachers making it 5x to pay them...just because your budget is 4x doesnt mean you reduce what you pay. You up the budget.

I'm not for wild spending or spending "too much"...but if you dont pay teachers a living wage or what they are worth...then you're going to get CRAPPY teachers since you dont pay them what they're worth.

That's been the problem for too long. We're getting bad teachers because they dont get paid enough. And people wont pay more because they see the craptastic teachers we have now. So it's an endless circle of fear and non-payment.

So tell me. How exactly do you pull money out of your ass? I mean clearly thats what you are suggesting people do.

You have budgets for a reason.

Sorry to post from so far back, but I'd forgotten about this one.

I'm not suggesting people pull money out of their ass. I'm saying that you're looking at the problem from the wrong direction. There is more money out there...it's called a) cutting other departments b) cutting waste and 3) taxes (in that order because I'd rather not have more taxes).

Once you realize how much a teacher is worth you pay them that...or your schools are going to suffer. Just crying "we dont have the money" doesn't solve your school problem.

The real key to this whole issue is how teachers are evaluated.

 

[Cecilie1200]

The whole idea of "we have to know what we can pay before we give you an amount" in the two posts above is poppycock. Sorry, but it is.

I agree that a school has to stay within its budget. No argument there...but you're looking at things backwards. If the value of the work of a teacher is X...and you hire 5 teachers making it 5x to pay them...just because your budget is 4x doesnt mean you reduce what you pay. You up the budget.

I'm not for wild spending or spending "too much"...but if you dont pay teachers a living wage or what they are worth...then you're going to get CRAPPY teachers since you dont pay them what they're worth.

That's been the problem for too long. We're getting bad teachers because they dont get paid enough. And people wont pay more because they see the craptastic teachers we have now. So it's an endless circle of fear and non-payment.

So tell me. How exactly do you pull money out of your ass? I mean clearly thats what you are suggesting people do.

You have budgets for a reason.

Sorry to post from so far back, but I'd forgotten about this one.

I'm not suggesting people pull money out of their ass. I'm saying that you're looking at the problem from the wrong direction. There is more money out there...it's called a) cutting other departments b) cutting waste and 3) taxes (in that order because I'd rather not have more taxes).

Once you realize how much a teacher is worth you pay them that...or your schools are going to suffer. Just crying "we dont have the money" doesn't solve your school problem.

The real key to this whole issue is how teachers are evaluated.

I'm pretty sure the whole point of limiting collective bargaining of public employees to salaries IS to cut waste. And I think before any group of public servants suggests cutting OTHER departments or that other departments should "cut waste", they should clean their own house.

 

[Vanquish]

Oh I agree. If we play "pass the buck" everyone will feel cheated. Budgets in general need to be cut wherever possible, whenever possible.

As far as collective bargaining groups go...I think everyone should have the freedom to associate and make group decisions...but unfortunately sometimes that leads to bad decisions. I think Christie is right when he says either people can take a 1-2% paycut - when you're already getting 100% of your medicals paid...or layoffs are going to happen. That's not asking too much.

 

[Wicked Jester]

What we have here is the Conservatives doing their best to avoid saying what they really mean.

What do they think teachers should be paid? As little as possible. If you can't afford to send your child to a pricey private school, then your child deserves only to be educated enough to know how to do a minimum wage job. And, as soon as we get enough ill educated people, we can compete directly with China on low wage jobs. Of course, by then China, which is investing in education in a big way, will have a much bigger economy than ours, and need a place with low wage workers to manufacture the trinkets they will be wanting.

Well, once again, you're completely full of shit.......Nothing new there!

Lets see, those teachers in Wisconsin are paid 45-75 g's a year on average.

They enjoy cash outs on retirement. Meaning, they can cash out all unused sick time and whatnot upon rtirement. Anybody remember the 4 cops whose cashouts added to around 900 g's after 20-30 years of service?

Union public sector workers, too include those teachers, enjoy on average 30% higher pay than the private sector. 70% above the private sector in pensions.

And they're friggin' not getting enough?

No wonder states are going broke.

You people are fuckin' nuts!

 

[bodecea]

How many soldiers retire a Major General/Rear Admiral? Those promotions are based on merit not seniority too. And not for nothing but some school admins are already in that pay rage or more.

You may have missed what WillowTree said, let me repeat if for you "Not one dime more than an American soldier makes."

(S)he did not specify a pay grade or a length of service, as a matter of fact I didn't even pull the highest paid active duty officer which is an O-10 who can potentially make $227,242.80 a year.



Oh and by the way, military pay is based on years of service and promotions. An E-7 at 10-years makes $41,335.20 while and E-7 at 30-years makes $56,880.00 without another merit based promotion. Again with 50% retirement and medical for life.


>>>>

Relax dude. I'm just bringing it back around to the same old same old meritocracy argument I've made all along.

Oh, and by the way, it's a lot easier to get drummed out of the military for poor performance than to fire a union teacher for same.

Well, THAT's simply not true.

 

[Vanquish]

Hmmmm. Which do I think has more accountability...the military or schools. The intuitive choice is military. But perhaps this a counter-intuitive answer?

 

[bodecea]

Hmmmm. Which do I think has more accountability...the military or schools. The intuitive choice is military. But perhaps this a counter-intuitive answer?

Well, let me use my ex-Navy/teacher brother for an example. He is MUCH MORE under a microscope as a teacher than he ever was in the military.

 

[Samson]

Supply and Demand are two big factors, bub.

Ridiculous.

Teachers should be paid the Federally Mandated Minimum Wage = $7.25/hr

Only Socialism is Fair.

 

[Samson]

Hmmmm. Which do I think has more accountability...the military or schools. The intuitive choice is military. But perhaps this a counter-intuitive answer?

Well, let me use my ex-Navy/teacher brother for an example. He is MUCH MORE under a microscope as a teacher than he ever was in the military.

Of course.

In the Navy you are not In Loco Parentis.

 

[Dawg]

And should there be a cap on how much that can get paid?

How much is a teacher worth in your opinion?

That's a tough question to answer. I suppose they should be payed what they are worth. We currently have a tiered system for pay in my state. On the low end are those just beginning their careers. In my state they make about 30K a year with good benefits. That certainly is not over paid by any stretch. In fact, they are probably deserving of more than that. On the other hand we have those that have been teaching for 25 years making 60K with Cadilac benefits including guaranteed retirement. Why? They aren't worth anymore than the teachers making 30K. That's a problem.
Then there are also the ridiculous requirements legislated into being a teacher. Why does a teacher of elementary or High School need a Masters Degree? Should a teacher be hired and evaluated on how well they teach, not on how good of a student they were?

 

[Dawg]

So tell me. How exactly do you pull money out of your ass? I mean clearly thats what you are suggesting people do.

You have budgets for a reason.

Sorry to post from so far back, but I'd forgotten about this one.

I'm not suggesting people pull money out of their ass. I'm saying that you're looking at the problem from the wrong direction. There is more money out there...it's called a) cutting other departments b) cutting waste and 3) taxes (in that order because I'd rather not have more taxes).

Once you realize how much a teacher is worth you pay them that...or your schools are going to suffer. Just crying "we dont have the money" doesn't solve your school problem.

The real key to this whole issue is how teachers are evaluated.

I'm pretty sure the whole point of limiting collective bargaining of public employees to salaries IS to cut waste. And I think before any group of public servants suggests cutting OTHER departments or that other departments should "cut waste", they should clean their own house.

The key words to your post are "collective bargaining". There are two sides at the collective bargaining table. Contracts have a lifetime do they not? At some point don't both sides have to meet and make a new contract? That is the time for bargaining. That is the time for workers to make demands or employers to make demands. In the end both sides choose whether or not to sign the agreement. An employer has the right to say no thank you to the union. There is no law broken if that occurs. Here is a potential solution to this school funding problem.
Instead of having State Assemblies negotiate and approve the collective bargaining agreements that are binding on the State Budgets, push it down to the level of each school, or at least each district. Why should citizens who live in A county, be responsible for the debt of B county schools?

 

[Samson]

So tell me. How exactly do you pull money out of your ass? I mean clearly thats what you are suggesting people do.

You have budgets for a reason.

Sorry to post from so far back, but I'd forgotten about this one.

I'm not suggesting people pull money out of their ass. I'm saying that you're looking at the problem from the wrong direction. There is more money out there...it's called a) cutting other departments b) cutting waste and 3) taxes (in that order because I'd rather not have more taxes).

Once you realize how much a teacher is worth you pay them that...or your schools are going to suffer. Just crying "we dont have the money" doesn't solve your school problem.

The real key to this whole issue is how teachers are evaluated.

I'm pretty sure the whole point of limiting collective bargaining of public employees to salaries IS to cut waste. And I think before any group of public servants suggests cutting OTHER departments or that other departments should "cut waste", they should clean their own house.

In a sense you're correct: Having Publically Elected Administrators bargain with public employees who are also consitituants is a recipe for fraud and corruption and of course waste.

I prefer elected officials bribe me directly for my vote: booze or cash works quite nicely