How Middle Class Republicans Conservatives are being CONNED by the Super Rich.

[FireFly]

Bush & the Republicans were creating jobs until the Democrats took control of congress in 2007 & destroyed jobs & the economy. Unlike the democrat lies, don't just take my word for it, check the chart. Since the Republicans took back the House in 2011 to block Democrats neurotic control of business, jobs are once again on the rise. Democrats have destroyed all the jobs & the economy. Now since January 2011 America, Jobs & the Economy are making a comeback.

Typical Democrat Thoughts:

2006: Yeah! - Vote in democrats to stop the war.

2007: Awesome! The democrats are fucking up the economy to make Bush look bad.

2008: Vote for Obama because Bush killed the economy.

2009: Damn, I lost my job & the rich got richer.

2010: Damn, My job went to China, I am still unemployed, the rich are richer & now Obama & Democrats have sent in more troops.

2011: My job went to China, I am still unemployed, the rich are richer & now Obama & Democrats attacked 5 countries.

 

[Two Thumbs]

Bush & the Republicans were creating jobs until the Democrats took control of congress in 2007 & destroyed jobs & the economy. Unlike the democrat lies, don't just take my word for it, check the chart. Since the Republicans took back the House in 2011 to block Democrats neurotic control of business, jobs are once again on the rise. Democrats have destroyed all the jobs & the economy. Now since January 2011 America, Jobs & the Economy are making a comeback.

Typical Democrat Thoughts:

2006: Yeah! - Vote in democrats to stop the war.

2007: Awesome! The democrats are fucking up the economy to make Bush look bad.

2008: Vote for Obama because Bush killed the economy.

2009: Damn, I lost my job & the rich got richer.

2010: Damn, My job went to China, I am still unemployed, the rich are richer & now Obama & Democrats have sent in more troops.

2011: My job went to China, I am still unemployed, the rich are richer & now Obama & Democrats attacked 5 countries.

What 5 countries?

 

[kaz]

I'm always puzzled how the under employed "Joe the Plumber" types and unions of police and fire fighters continue to support the Republican Party

Because they don't have blind faith in liberal dogma as preached in the Holy Church of the Democratic Party. I realize your grasping that is like a Christian grasping Jesus may not be literally correct, but it is the answer to your question.

 

[FireFly]

Bush & the Republicans were creating jobs until the Democrats took control of congress in 2007 & destroyed jobs & the economy. Unlike the democrat lies, don't just take my word for it, check the chart. Since the Republicans took back the House in 2011 to block Democrats neurotic control of business, jobs are once again on the rise. Democrats have destroyed all the jobs & the economy. Now since January 2011 America, Jobs & the Economy are making a comeback.

Typical Democrat Thoughts:

2006: Yeah! - Vote in democrats to stop the war.

2007: Awesome! The democrats are fucking up the economy to make Bush look bad.

2008: Vote for Obama because Bush killed the economy.

2009: Damn, I lost my job & the rich got richer.

2010: Damn, My job went to China, I am still unemployed, the rich are richer & now Obama & Democrats have sent in more troops.

2011: My job went to China, I am still unemployed, the rich are richer & now Obama & Democrats attacked 5 countries.

What 5 countries?

I know, there are so many it is hard to keep up. Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, Yemen, Libya.

 

[Two Thumbs]

Bush & the Republicans were creating jobs until the Democrats took control of congress in 2007 & destroyed jobs & the economy. Unlike the democrat lies, don't just take my word for it, check the chart. Since the Republicans took back the House in 2011 to block Democrats neurotic control of business, jobs are once again on the rise. Democrats have destroyed all the jobs & the economy. Now since January 2011 America, Jobs & the Economy are making a comeback.

Typical Democrat Thoughts:

2006: Yeah! - Vote in democrats to stop the war.

2007: Awesome! The democrats are fucking up the economy to make Bush look bad.

2008: Vote for Obama because Bush killed the economy.

2009: Damn, I lost my job & the rich got richer.

2010: Damn, My job went to China, I am still unemployed, the rich are richer & now Obama & Democrats have sent in more troops.

2011: My job went to China, I am still unemployed, the rich are richer & now Obama & Democrats attacked 5 countries.

What 5 countries?

I know, there are so many it is hard to keep up. Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, Yemen, Libya.

When did we war on Pakistan and Yemen?
I don't recall that in the news.

 

[FireFly]

What 5 countries?

I know, there are so many it is hard to keep up. Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, Yemen, Libya.

When did we war on Pakistan and Yemen?
I don't recall that in the news.

President Obama 'orders Pakistan drone attacks


Obama Ordered U.S. Military Strike on Yemen Terrorists

Back to the Democrats & Obama's screwing the economy under Bush. Now Obama regrets vote against raising debt limit under President Bush.

 

[auditor0007]

Well there's this history:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/omb/budget/fy2012/assets/hist01z2.xls

Note the outlays when Dems controlled the House only, the House and Senate Only, and both the Executive and Legislative Branches. Note the increases in outlays when chambers have changed parties. Here's a hint, in the last 40 years the outlays always went up. When Democrats replaced Republicans in the House outlays always increased more than when Republicans replaced Democrats. When Democrats replaced Republicans in both the House and the Oval Office, an even higher increase in spending resulted. Guess what happened when Democrats got all 3?

Now take a look at receipts as a percentage of GDP. If you look at Clinton's last four years, you will see that receipts were close to 20% of GDP, and the economy was booming. Now, with massive tax cuts, look at our current situation. Receipts now total just over 15% of GDP for the last four years. The economy sucks and we have massive deficits. While spending has increased too much, it is more than obvious that an even bigger problem is that receipts have declined dramatically as a percentage of GDP, and this is the biggest cause of our deficits.

Did the economy boom due to increased government receipts or were receipts up due to the booming (bubble by the way) economy? Conversely did lower receipts as a percentage of GDP cause the 2008 crash? I don't think so. The deficits are caused by too much spending. Even in the best "balanced" budget in the last 40 years there still was an increase in the debt. Obviously more government spending hasn't fixed the economy either.

My point is still valid and proven - Democrats' spending proposals are higher than the already too lofty Republicans spending proposals.

I do not disagree that spending is too high. That is a given, but there are two sides to the equation, and very few people want to admit this. Democrats, for the most part, only state the lack of funding, while Republicans, for the most part, only state spending as the problem.

What bothers me is that those who want to cut spending mostly concentrate their efforts and wrath against the social spending, which is actually a very small part of the budget. The biggest culprits are the entitlements. The problem is that we saw this coming a long time ago, and nobody, Republican or Democrat every tried to address the issue. Now, instead of taking a realistic look at what needs to be done, we hear talk of privatizing Medicare, which would essentially leave millions of elderly unable to afford their own healthcare. I too understand we need to make cuts in Medicare, and let's be honest, Medicare is the biggest problem we face long term. The difference is that I support raising the retirement age versus dumping the whole thing back to private insurers.

We know for a fact that while Medicare has its share of flaws, it runs much more efficiently than private insurance. If we dump it all on private insurance, you can be certain that costs will double for everyone. If that is not a terrible tax increase, I don't know what is. Raise the retirement age so people work longer. The costs of their healthcare will be absorbed between the individual and their employers, as well as some funding through early Medicare for those who are disabled and unable to work. This would shorten the number of years that the federal government needs to pay out to individuals, and that would create a massive amount of long term savings while keeping the safety net in place.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

...Wages are where they were in 1980 for working Americans and that is despite an 86% increase in worker productivity and a 90% growth in the US economy since 1980. So yes, the middle class/working class is getting screwed...

It's time for the middle class/working class to get it share of the economic pie.

Since today’s middle class usually involves at least two working Americans, it seems to me that, even if wages are about the same as 1980, the middle class is probably doing about twice as good as they did back then. Indeed, I feel even the poor are doing better than they did back then.

I am middle class today and I was middle class back then and I really can’t complain.

That said, I agree that the middle class also gets screwed because they are the ones who actually have to pay the bill regardless of who rung it up.

So, in my opinion, people are dreaming if they think it will not be the middle class who will ultimately bear the entire brunt of any tax increases levied upon the rich.

That's the problem. The wages are the same but the COL is not. I made $12 her hour in the late 80's and make nearly three times that now. But my buying power, although more, isn't three times as much.

.

Tell me.

How did the tax cuts negatively affect your buying power?

 

[asterism]

Now take a look at receipts as a percentage of GDP. If you look at Clinton's last four years, you will see that receipts were close to 20% of GDP, and the economy was booming. Now, with massive tax cuts, look at our current situation. Receipts now total just over 15% of GDP for the last four years. The economy sucks and we have massive deficits. While spending has increased too much, it is more than obvious that an even bigger problem is that receipts have declined dramatically as a percentage of GDP, and this is the biggest cause of our deficits.

Did the economy boom due to increased government receipts or were receipts up due to the booming (bubble by the way) economy? Conversely did lower receipts as a percentage of GDP cause the 2008 crash? I don't think so. The deficits are caused by too much spending. Even in the best "balanced" budget in the last 40 years there still was an increase in the debt. Obviously more government spending hasn't fixed the economy either.

My point is still valid and proven - Democrats' spending proposals are higher than the already too lofty Republicans spending proposals.

I do not disagree that spending is too high. That is a given, but there are two sides to the equation, and very few people want to admit this. Democrats, for the most part, only state the lack of funding, while Republicans, for the most part, only state spending as the problem.

And I agree with the Republicans on this, the problem is spending. The debt has never decreased in any year since I've been alive (41 years) and that includes years where taxes and government receipts have increased dramatically.

What bothers me is that those who want to cut spending mostly concentrate their efforts and wrath against the social spending, which is actually a very small part of the budget. The biggest culprits are the entitlements. The problem is that we saw this coming a long time ago, and nobody, Republican or Democrat every tried to address the issue. Now, instead of taking a realistic look at what needs to be done, we hear talk of privatizing Medicare, which would essentially leave millions of elderly unable to afford their own healthcare. I too understand we need to make cuts in Medicare, and let's be honest, Medicare is the biggest problem we face long term. The difference is that I support raising the retirement age versus dumping the whole thing back to private insurers.

I agree with most of that. However, the GOP did try to address entitlement reform when they were in control and was blocked by every single Democrat. I think they should have tried harder, but it probably still wouldn't have worked.

We need to means test the benefits instead of arbitrarily raising the retirement age. Then we can cut the tax rates collected to match that need instead of inefficiently subsidizing the well-to-do.

We know for a fact that while Medicare has its share of flaws, it runs much more efficiently than private insurance.

I disagree. Since it's the only option for the vast majority of Seniors we'll never get an apples to apples comparison.

If we dump it all on private insurance, you can be certain that costs will double for everyone.

That depends on whether the costs billed increase or decrease. One thing is sure, increased government funding has created an overbilling problem.

If that is not a terrible tax increase, I don't know what is. Raise the retirement age so people work longer. The costs of their healthcare will be absorbed between the individual and their employers, as well as some funding through early Medicare for those who are disabled and unable to work.

Why involve the employers at all?

This would shorten the number of years that the federal government needs to pay out to individuals, and that would create a massive amount of long term savings while keeping the safety net in place.

If there's one thing the government has proven, it's that it does not manage money well. There has never been any long term savings in any government program.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

There's no such thing as a "free market" - absolutely, unequivocally, no such thing.

Any time someone starts using that phrase I know I can tune out.

Why? Because for as long as there have been governments (religious and secular) controls and laws have steered the course of free trade, in some situations stifling it all together.

Sorry for that slight derail, but I was irked.

RE: the OP

The middle class gets conned by the super rich because the middle class wants to BECOME the super rich. The Republican brand says to people "come...be with the affluent people...you can be one of us...join the lifestyle..." Of course people do make decisions based on actual principles...but to deny the allure of the brand would be misguided.

There actually are free markets, they are just underground.

When liberals complain about free markets they are actually complaining about government intervention. That is something that always amuses me.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

There is no substitute for "Value for Value". "Something for Nothing" is Total Bullshit, Somebody Always pays. Start by living within your means. This holds for the Individual, the Society, and the Government that claims to serve it.
Feeding Incompetence and Mismanagement only encourages more of it.

You left out corporations. Why? Did the American taxpayer NOT just recently BAIL OUT the finance industry? The Auto industry? Where was the "value for value" in that? Where is ANY reciprocity between labor and industry in this country anymore? In some smaller businesses, but the corporate world? You're dreaming if you think that exists, and as far back as Reagan, government policy didn't think ONCE much less twice about the small businessman.

Do you remember how one of the beefs that Bush, McCain, and the Democrats had was that Republicans shot down the bailouts the first time they were proposed? One of the few times in the last few years they were right.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

oooooooooooooooooooooooo.....more Absolutes; no (actual) list.

How bold of you.

Well there's this history:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/omb/budget/fy2012/assets/hist01z2.xls

Note the outlays when Dems controlled the House only, the House and Senate Only, and both the Executive and Legislative Branches. Note the increases in outlays when chambers have changed parties. Here's a hint, in the last 40 years the outlays always went up. When Democrats replaced Republicans in the House outlays always increased more than when Republicans replaced Democrats. When Democrats replaced Republicans in both the House and the Oval Office, an even higher increase in spending resulted. Guess what happened when Democrats got all 3?

Now take a look at receipts as a percentage of GDP. If you look at Clinton's last four years, you will see that receipts were close to 20% of GDP, and the economy was booming. Now, with massive tax cuts, look at our current situation. Receipts now total just over 15% of GDP for the last four years. The economy sucks and we have massive deficits. While spending has increased too much, it is more than obvious that an even bigger problem is that receipts have declined dramatically as a percentage of GDP, and this is the biggest cause of our deficits.

Wrong.

The reason the deficit is so high is that we are spending more than we take in.

 

[FireFly]

How do you get a college graduate off of your front porch in the Obama economy???

You pay them for the pizza!

 

[kiwiman127]

Paul Ryan proposes a budget that demands Americans sacrifice, and yet, the wealthy are exempted from that 'shared' sacrifice.

Got a link? Any proof any at all?

http://ctj.org/pdf/ryanplan2010.pdf

 

[MarcATL]

I'm always puzzled how the under employed "Joe the Plumber" types and unions of police and fire fighters continue to support the Republican Party.

After all... what have they actually done for the conservative working class?

Mostly the GOP has kept wages low and pushed the majority of tax paying onto the middled class.
No matter what the rate is for the rich (high or low) they usually hire accountants that ensure the super rich pay little if any actual tax.

But the current big con are the conservative PACS that take money from the working class Conservative Republicans and give nothing back to them.
Such as Americans For Prosperity - sounds great and I'm in favor of prosperity - but the Koch brothers are the only ones getting rich from this PAC... NOT the middle class majority.


It's NOT a real Free Market at work stupid!

I hear the worn out, lame comments from the GOP and Conservatives all the time that it's just the "Free Market" or it's "Supply and Demand" and you got to lower taxes so the wealthy can create jobs. If all that is true...

Where are the jobs GOP from the Bush Tax Cuts?

Does anyone remember the Bush Tax Cuts that were supposed to create lots and lots of jobs?
Because... you know... if you give the rich and super wealthy big tax breaks they will create lots of jobs right?

In fact - the opposite has happened - a sharp DECLINE in jobs after the Bush Tax Cuts.


Tax Dollar Subsidized Business is NOT Capitalism or the Free Market
What the GOP really wants is the low wage class and the middle class to subsidized the already wealthy and super rich.

Billion Dollar businesses such as McDonald's as Walmart get super big tax breaks and subsidies a.k.a "Corporate Welfare" paid mostly by the middle class tax payers who don't even benefit from a higher wages or benefits due to a subsidy.

$8 an hour is poverty level for a family in this country.


Middle Class Consumers and Buyers are the fuel that creates the Wealth and Job Growth!

GOP love to repeat the old Reaganomics tax plan of 1981.

FYI - 1980 Tax Rates was 70% 50% 215,400

* Reduce Government spending.
* Reduce Income Tax and Capital Gains Tax.
* Reduce Government regulation.
and
* Control the money supply to reduce inflation.



Reagan said this would create "Trickle Down Economics" which sorta works if the economic conditions are a certain way such as businesses hiring more people that yields incomes.

When Ronald Reagan was president in the 80's he actually came in with a bad recession and taxes were super high

30+ years of this Republican horse$h!t and what do we have to show for it? Damn near financial collapse and a failed economy. Thanks Reagan!

The middle class are going to PUNISH the Republicans come 2012....mark my words.

 

[asterism]

I'm always puzzled how the under employed "Joe the Plumber" types and unions of police and fire fighters continue to support the Republican Party.

After all... what have they actually done for the conservative working class?

Mostly the GOP has kept wages low and pushed the majority of tax paying onto the middled class.
No matter what the rate is for the rich (high or low) they usually hire accountants that ensure the super rich pay little if any actual tax.

But the current big con are the conservative PACS that take money from the working class Conservative Republicans and give nothing back to them.
Such as Americans For Prosperity - sounds great and I'm in favor of prosperity - but the Koch brothers are the only ones getting rich from this PAC... NOT the middle class majority.


It's NOT a real Free Market at work stupid!

I hear the worn out, lame comments from the GOP and Conservatives all the time that it's just the "Free Market" or it's "Supply and Demand" and you got to lower taxes so the wealthy can create jobs. If all that is true...

Where are the jobs GOP from the Bush Tax Cuts?

Does anyone remember the Bush Tax Cuts that were supposed to create lots and lots of jobs?
Because... you know... if you give the rich and super wealthy big tax breaks they will create lots of jobs right?

In fact - the opposite has happened - a sharp DECLINE in jobs after the Bush Tax Cuts.


Tax Dollar Subsidized Business is NOT Capitalism or the Free Market
What the GOP really wants is the low wage class and the middle class to subsidized the already wealthy and super rich.

Billion Dollar businesses such as McDonald's as Walmart get super big tax breaks and subsidies a.k.a "Corporate Welfare" paid mostly by the middle class tax payers who don't even benefit from a higher wages or benefits due to a subsidy.

$8 an hour is poverty level for a family in this country.


Middle Class Consumers and Buyers are the fuel that creates the Wealth and Job Growth!

GOP love to repeat the old Reaganomics tax plan of 1981.

FYI - 1980 Tax Rates was 70% 50% 215,400

* Reduce Government spending.
* Reduce Income Tax and Capital Gains Tax.
* Reduce Government regulation.
and
* Control the money supply to reduce inflation.



Reagan said this would create "Trickle Down Economics" which sorta works if the economic conditions are a certain way such as businesses hiring more people that yields incomes.

When Ronald Reagan was president in the 80's he actually came in with a bad recession and taxes were super high

30+ years of this Republican horse$h!t and what do we have to show for it? Damn near financial collapse and a failed economy. Thanks Reagan!

The middle class are going to PUNISH the Republicans come 2012....mark my words.

Republicans only controlled the budget between 2001 and 2006. They had input between 1980 and 1992, 2007 and 2008, and this year.

Do please discredit the Clinton years though if you think Republicans cause all the problems like repealing the Glass-Steagal Act. Sure they presented the bill, but a Democrat signed it.

 

[Gunny]

I'm always puzzled how the under employed "Joe the Plumber" types and unions of police and fire fighters continue to support the Republican Party.

After all... what have they actually done for the conservative working class?

Mostly the GOP has kept wages low and pushed the majority of tax paying onto the middled class.
No matter what the rate is for the rich (high or low) they usually hire accountants that ensure the super rich pay little if any actual tax.

But the current big con are the conservative PACS that take money from the working class Conservative Republicans and give nothing back to them.
Such as Americans For Prosperity - sounds great and I'm in favor of prosperity - but the Koch brothers are the only ones getting rich from this PAC... NOT the middle class majority.


It's NOT a real Free Market at work stupid!

I hear the worn out, lame comments from the GOP and Conservatives all the time that it's just the "Free Market" or it's "Supply and Demand" and you got to lower taxes so the wealthy can create jobs. If all that is true...

Where are the jobs GOP from the Bush Tax Cuts?

Does anyone remember the Bush Tax Cuts that were supposed to create lots and lots of jobs?
Because... you know... if you give the rich and super wealthy big tax breaks they will create lots of jobs right?

In fact - the opposite has happened - a sharp DECLINE in jobs after the Bush Tax Cuts.


Tax Dollar Subsidized Business is NOT Capitalism or the Free Market
What the GOP really wants is the low wage class and the middle class to subsidized the already wealthy and super rich.

Billion Dollar businesses such as McDonald's as Walmart get super big tax breaks and subsidies a.k.a "Corporate Welfare" paid mostly by the middle class tax payers who don't even benefit from a higher wages or benefits due to a subsidy.

$8 an hour is poverty level for a family in this country.


Middle Class Consumers and Buyers are the fuel that creates the Wealth and Job Growth!

GOP love to repeat the old Reaganomics tax plan of 1981.

FYI - 1980 Tax Rates was 70% 50% 215,400

* Reduce Government spending.
* Reduce Income Tax and Capital Gains Tax.
* Reduce Government regulation.
and
* Control the money supply to reduce inflation.



Reagan said this would create "Trickle Down Economics" which sorta works if the economic conditions are a certain way such as businesses hiring more people that yields incomes.

When Ronald Reagan was president in the 80's he actually came in with a bad recession and taxes were super high

No more so than the poor left being being conned by immediate, shiny little bauble, yet short-lived handouts from Democrats.

Get a new soundbyte. You're boring me.

 

[The T]

I'm always puzzled how the under employed "Joe the Plumber" types and unions of police and fire fighters continue to support the Republican Party.

After all... what have they actually done for the conservative working class?

Mostly the GOP has kept wages low and pushed the majority of tax paying onto the middled class.
No matter what the rate is for the rich (high or low) they usually hire accountants that ensure the super rich pay little if any actual tax.

But the current big con are the conservative PACS that take money from the working class Conservative Republicans and give nothing back to them.
Such as Americans For Prosperity - sounds great and I'm in favor of prosperity - but the Koch brothers are the only ones getting rich from this PAC... NOT the middle class majority.


It's NOT a real Free Market at work stupid!

I hear the worn out, lame comments from the GOP and Conservatives all the time that it's just the "Free Market" or it's "Supply and Demand" and you got to lower taxes so the wealthy can create jobs. If all that is true...

Where are the jobs GOP from the Bush Tax Cuts?

Does anyone remember the Bush Tax Cuts that were supposed to create lots and lots of jobs?
Because... you know... if you give the rich and super wealthy big tax breaks they will create lots of jobs right?

In fact - the opposite has happened - a sharp DECLINE in jobs after the Bush Tax Cuts.


Tax Dollar Subsidized Business is NOT Capitalism or the Free Market
What the GOP really wants is the low wage class and the middle class to subsidized the already wealthy and super rich.

Billion Dollar businesses such as McDonald's as Walmart get super big tax breaks and subsidies a.k.a "Corporate Welfare" paid mostly by the middle class tax payers who don't even benefit from a higher wages or benefits due to a subsidy.

$8 an hour is poverty level for a family in this country.


Middle Class Consumers and Buyers are the fuel that creates the Wealth and Job Growth!

GOP love to repeat the old Reaganomics tax plan of 1981.

FYI - 1980 Tax Rates was 70% 50% 215,400

* Reduce Government spending.
* Reduce Income Tax and Capital Gains Tax.
* Reduce Government regulation.
and
* Control the money supply to reduce inflation.



Reagan said this would create "Trickle Down Economics" which sorta works if the economic conditions are a certain way such as businesses hiring more people that yields incomes.

When Ronald Reagan was president in the 80's he actually came in with a bad recession and taxes were super high

I note Reagan...why not ADD the Founding Father's to the list that GOT US HERE *Dipshit*?

What a bunch of Statist Drivel.

 

[The T]

The OP is a Class Warfare Warrior. He/She/It gives themselves away in the TITLE of their thread.

 

[Intense]

There is no substitute for "Value for Value". "Something for Nothing" is Total Bullshit, Somebody Always pays. Start by living within your means. This holds for the Individual, the Society, and the Government that claims to serve it.
Feeding Incompetence and Mismanagement only encourages more of it.

You left out corporations. Why? Did the American taxpayer NOT just recently BAIL OUT the finance industry? The Auto industry? Where was the "value for value" in that? Where is ANY reciprocity between labor and industry in this country anymore? In some smaller businesses, but the corporate world? You're dreaming if you think that exists, and as far back as Reagan, government policy didn't think ONCE much less twice about the small businessman.

Actually, No. Corporations are not exempt from my statement. Why on Earth would you even think such a thing? Are you being serious here or trying a "Bait and Switch" Argument. Spin only obscures your perspective, not Reality. Fuck the Oligarchy, Fuck the Plutocracy, Fuck Soft Tyranny, Fuck Hard Tyranny, .... Wait for it ..... Fuck the Angry Mob!!! Starting to see the Pattern here????? Good! Here is a clue, how about we give Government by the consent of the Governed a chance for once. How about we try to establish Justice for a change, rather than Rape and Pillage it. Let's consider the value of Reason over Manipulation for a change too.