How Many Americans Have to Die for there to be a Crisis?

[OldLady]

Their are sources of funding available to a President that he can do without Congressional approval since it is not part of the annual budget.
So it has been legally written into our Constitution that the President can override the Congress and spend however much of the country's money as he likes without anyone's permission?
Can I see an example of what you are talking about?

Where do you think Obama got the hundreds of billions he gave Iran?

And yes, the mechanism given by the Constitution to Congress is with the annual budget.

It does not prevent the POTUS from selling government owned land, selling debt, selling contracts or opening up a lemonade stand.

Where do you think Obama got the hundreds of billions he gave Iran?
I don't know. Where? I Googled it and got all kinds of articles about the payment itself, but not a single mention of where the money came from, how Obama got it and ....had Congress refused to release the funds? I don't recall.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Where do you think Obama got the hundreds of billions he gave Iran?
I don't know. Where? I Googled it and got all kinds of articles about the payment itself, but not a single mention of where the money came from, how Obama got it and ....had Congress refused to release the funds? I don't recall.

Congress was never asked for the funds, to my knowledge.

My point is that the POTUS of the USA has means to churn up hundreds of billions of USD and ask nobody for permission for it.

 

[JimBowie1958]

As of now

• Bruce_T_Laney
• danielpalos
• Likkmee

all agree with Joseph Stalin that the deaths of thousands of innocent people is not a crisis but merely a statistic.

 

[OldLady]

The PROBLEM is the President overriding our government's internal checks and balances. The Congress has the power of the purse for a reason. The President can't override a check like this. He most likely knows it, though he isn't afraid of using it as a threat. Do not take him seriously, though. You will be disappointed if you do.

It is interesting that when a Democratic President ignores Congressional funding powers, like Obamas sending hundreds of buillionsto Iran, or ignoring Congressionally passed code of law, like Obama choosing to not enforce restrictions on worker visas and just handing out as many as he wants, you Dems have no problem and defend the POTUS.

But if it is a Republican President USING THE POWERS HE IS CLEARLY GIVEN UNDER US CODE OF LAWS, you cannot tolerate it.

This is just hilarious for many reasons, the cheif of which is you are completely blind to your own hypocrisy.

You're disappointing me Jim. You get me thinking, I ask you some good questions based on what you tell me, and then you suddenly start spouting partisan speeches and don't answer me.
I don't recall, and that's the truth. The court established to sort out all the Iran/American contractual obligations that got put on hold after the hostage thing ordered America to pay what it had owed Iran all those years ago for equipment they had ordered and paid for but never received due to sanctions.
So Congress said no, it wasn't going to pay that? Is that what happened? How was Congress involved, Jim?

 

[otto105]

Suppose we have a bread maker and this manufacturer had employees poisoning their products with random binary poisons that only kill a person if they also use random commercial products, like certain brands of tooth paste, deoderant, or foods, and so forth.

The public is demanding they stop selling their product, but the company wont, saying it will drive them out of business, and each loaf has a buyer beware label on it speaking of the risk.

Their sales drop through the floor, so they instead start selling their bread to other stores as a store brand prodcut.

Public is again outraged and people start demanding that Congress pass a law, on top of all the others that would make this product illegal.

Congress refuses to act saying that buyers need to be careful of what they buy and it was not a crisis anyway. One Congressman is asked how many people have to die from this bread before it becomes a crisis?

He says well 9-11 was a crisis and that had 3,000 people die.

Is 3,000 the threshold for how many deaths it takes to have a crisis?

Well, it’s clearly more the Sandy Hook, Parkland or Las Vegas....combined.


I think killing under the conservative reading of the Second Amendment is unlimited.

 

[OldLady]

As of now

• Bruce_T_Laney
• danielpalos
• Likkmee

all agree with Joseph Stalin that the deaths of thousands of innocent people is not a crisis but merely a statistic.

Put the NRA on that list, bud.

 

[otto105]

Its supposedly a national emergency this year.

It wasn't a national emergency last year.

What changed in the last 2-3 months?

Trump ran on this national emergency three years ago.
You’re such a phony.

So, about the first two years...

 

[EvilCat Breath]

Democrats intend that all those who don't support their agenda die. This is a war. The illegals are weaponized and what Democrat socialists are using as an army.

 

[eagle1462010]

Its supposedly a national emergency this year.

It wasn't a national emergency last year.

What changed in the last 2-3 months?

Nothing has changed for decades........and it has been a crisis for decades...........the new loop holes exposed and encouraged by the Dems in the past have caused unaccompanied children numbers coming to America to explode...............because after 20 days they are sent to family or relatives in the country and they are in..............Now they are flooding the border with families as the courts have done the same to ICE.........You can't separate them at the border.......with the back log of the courts at about 2 years..........the Immigration courts are overwelmed.......and the system is now forced to release the families from JUDICIAL ACTIVISM..............primarily the 9th Circuit Court of Liberal Hacks...................and Politicians who OPENLY SPIT ON THE LAWS OF THIS COUNTRY.

The immigrants are flooding the border now through LEGAL ENTRY PORTS OF ENTRY..........trying to get in via Catch and Release again. Another Caravan of the flood approaches now with about 15000 in it...............And Congress and the Senate refuse to do a damned thing about the loop holes.

It hasn’t been a crisis when apprehensions were well over a million per year; so it isn’t now

It was a crisis then and a crisis now...........Funny how in 2006 the same assholes against a border wall were all for it then.............FOR VOTES...........They sounded just like TRUMP........

A Caravan of 15000 is coming now trying to take advantage of the loop holes.............and over 70,000 a year are dying to Opiods most of which come from the border.......especially heroin...................

 

[JimBowie1958]

Ways that Trump can fund his wall without Congressional funding or declaring a national emergency.

Donald Trump can fund the border wall without congressional approval

The Department of Agriculture has about $200 billion in outstanding loans for rural development projects such as community buildings, bridges, roads, fire stations, police stations, water projects and barriers such as fencing and walls. These federal loans to local communities have low default rates that are attractive to private-sector investors because they represent large, reliable cash flows — the kind of investments that big money funds desperately desire.

About $50-100 billion worth currently held by USDA are very marketable and attractive commercial paper investments. The rights to collect the remainder of the debt on these loans could be sold to private parties who would pay a premium for such a steady stream of cash payments. The sales would give a profit cushion to the government and alleviate taxpayers from any future risk of nonpayment while retaining certain borrower guarantees.

For example, Trump could authorize the sale of $10 billion of USDA rural water loans on the secondary market, which could bring in a lump sum payment of $12 billion or more. Revenue from these proceeds could be directed to build the border wall.

Legal authority comes from many angles. Obama stimulus loans (approximately $2-$5 billion) could be separated out and used because they involved “no year” money, meaning the funds don’t expire if not spent in a certain time frame. The president could tap into USDA’s Community Facilities Programs money if recouped funds from the sale were used for new loans to cooperating communities on the border, such as in Texas.​

There is much more....

Another option would be to utilize funds in the same way USDA undertakes in-kind swaps with private parties to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars worth of commodities and services. This would entail swapping the proceeds of the commercial paper sales for the wall, with construction companies being the counterparties.

These are only a few creative funding avenues that could be explored, some less complicated than others. Such an aggressive approach is a sure way for Trump to regain the initiative and get the attention of lawmakers who have an interest in killing any threat to their control over spending, thus giving the president leverage in negotiations as pressure mounts to end the shutdown.

While the Constitution gives Congress power over the government’s purse strings, presidents of both parties have pushed the limits of their flexibility to use executive-branch funds free of congressional micromanagement. President George W. Bush was criticized for keeping billions in war spending off the books so it could be diverted to secret operations free from congressional oversight. Conservatives complained that President Barack Obama spent billions on health care without congressional authorization.​

 

[JimBowie1958]

The PROBLEM is the President overriding our government's internal checks and balances. The Congress has the power of the purse for a reason. The President can't override a check like this. He most likely knows it, though he isn't afraid of using it as a threat. Do not take him seriously, though. You will be disappointed if you do.

It is interesting that when a Democratic President ignores Congressional funding powers, like Obamas sending hundreds of buillionsto Iran, or ignoring Congressionally passed code of law, like Obama choosing to not enforce restrictions on worker visas and just handing out as many as he wants, you Dems have no problem and defend the POTUS.

But if it is a Republican President USING THE POWERS HE IS CLEARLY GIVEN UNDER US CODE OF LAWS, you cannot tolerate it.

This is just hilarious for many reasons, the cheif of which is you are completely blind to your own hypocrisy.

You're disappointing me Jim. You get me thinking, I ask you some good questions based on what you tell me, and then you suddenly start spouting partisan speeches and don't answer me.
I don't recall, and that's the truth. The court established to sort out all the Iran/American contractual obligations that got put on hold after the hostage thing ordered America to pay what it had owed Iran all those years ago for equipment they had ordered and paid for but never received due to sanctions.
So Congress said no, it wasn't going to pay that? Is that what happened? How was Congress involved, Jim?

Congress was never involved to my knowledge.

How is telling you that partisan or disappointing to you?

Or is that just another deflection from the main point?

 

[JimBowie1958]

As of now

• Bruce_T_Laney
• danielpalos
• Likkmee

all agree with Joseph Stalin that the deaths of thousands of innocent people is not a crisis but merely a statistic.

Put the NRA on that list, bud.

If the NRA responds to my poll that it doesnt matter due to being a mere statistic, then I will.

 

[otto105]

Its supposedly a national emergency this year.

It wasn't a national emergency last year.

What changed in the last 2-3 months?

Nothing has changed for decades........and it has been a crisis for decades...........the new loop holes exposed and encouraged by the Dems in the past have caused unaccompanied children numbers coming to America to explode...............because after 20 days they are sent to family or relatives in the country and they are in..............Now they are flooding the border with families as the courts have done the same to ICE.........You can't separate them at the border.......with the back log of the courts at about 2 years..........the Immigration courts are overwelmed.......and the system is now forced to release the families from JUDICIAL ACTIVISM..............primarily the 9th Circuit Court of Liberal Hacks...................and Politicians who OPENLY SPIT ON THE LAWS OF THIS COUNTRY.

The immigrants are flooding the border now through LEGAL ENTRY PORTS OF ENTRY..........trying to get in via Catch and Release again. Another Caravan of the flood approaches now with about 15000 in it...............And Congress and the Senate refuse to do a damned thing about the loop holes.

It hasn’t been a crisis when apprehensions were well over a million per year; so it isn’t now

It was a crisis then and a crisis now...........Funny how in 2006 the same assholes against a border wall were all for it then.............FOR VOTES...........They sounded just like TRUMP........

A Caravan of 15000 is coming now trying to take advantage of the loop holes.............and over 70,000 a year are dying to Opiods most of which come from the border.......especially heroin...................

Check your “facts” before you post.

 

[eagle1462010]

Its supposedly a national emergency this year.

It wasn't a national emergency last year.

What changed in the last 2-3 months?

Nothing has changed for decades........and it has been a crisis for decades...........the new loop holes exposed and encouraged by the Dems in the past have caused unaccompanied children numbers coming to America to explode...............because after 20 days they are sent to family or relatives in the country and they are in..............Now they are flooding the border with families as the courts have done the same to ICE.........You can't separate them at the border.......with the back log of the courts at about 2 years..........the Immigration courts are overwelmed.......and the system is now forced to release the families from JUDICIAL ACTIVISM..............primarily the 9th Circuit Court of Liberal Hacks...................and Politicians who OPENLY SPIT ON THE LAWS OF THIS COUNTRY.

The immigrants are flooding the border now through LEGAL ENTRY PORTS OF ENTRY..........trying to get in via Catch and Release again. Another Caravan of the flood approaches now with about 15000 in it...............And Congress and the Senate refuse to do a damned thing about the loop holes.

It hasn’t been a crisis when apprehensions were well over a million per year; so it isn’t now

It was a crisis then and a crisis now...........Funny how in 2006 the same assholes against a border wall were all for it then.............FOR VOTES...........They sounded just like TRUMP........

A Caravan of 15000 is coming now trying to take advantage of the loop holes.............and over 70,000 a year are dying to Opiods most of which come from the border.......especially heroin...................

Check your “facts” before you post.

LOL

That they are asshole's comments are that so many are dying from drugs..............LOL

They most certainly did sound like Trump back then over border security.........Being the Bunch of Hypocrites they are today.

 

[rightwinger]

We had 33,000 americans die last year by guns and nobody declared a crisis

We didn’t declare a crisis when JFK, MLK, RFK were shot

We didn’t declare a crisis when 25 six year olds were slaughtered at Sandy Hook



Where is the border crisis again?

 

[danielpalos]

losing around a Corps of unorganized militia a year in non-combat operations should be a concern.

 

[OldLady]

Where do you think Obama got the hundreds of billions he gave Iran?
I don't know. Where? I Googled it and got all kinds of articles about the payment itself, but not a single mention of where the money came from, how Obama got it and ....had Congress refused to release the funds? I don't recall.

Congress was never asked for the funds, to my knowledge.

My point is that the POTUS of the USA has means to churn up hundreds of billions of USD and ask nobody for permission for it.

That's what I suspected your point was. You were not comparing apples to apples, were you? The Congress in this case has clearly and flatly refused to fund a Wall for President Trump under present offers. Trump is saying "Fuck that, I'll just escalate the rhetoric, declare a national emergency and build it anyway."
That is overriding the checks and balances that have stopped our leaders from having free reign. We need to hold to it, no matter how frustrating. There HAS to be a way to resolve this. Maybe Trump/the Republicans need to stop finger pointing, too, and do a little compromising? I know for a fact the Democrats do. But it is not all one side acting irresponsibly here.

 

[OldLady]

Its supposedly a national emergency this year.

It wasn't a national emergency last year.

What changed in the last 2-3 months?

Nothing has changed for decades........and it has been a crisis for decades...........the new loop holes exposed and encouraged by the Dems in the past have caused unaccompanied children numbers coming to America to explode...............because after 20 days they are sent to family or relatives in the country and they are in..............Now they are flooding the border with families as the courts have done the same to ICE.........You can't separate them at the border.......with the back log of the courts at about 2 years..........the Immigration courts are overwelmed.......and the system is now forced to release the families from JUDICIAL ACTIVISM..............primarily the 9th Circuit Court of Liberal Hacks...................and Politicians who OPENLY SPIT ON THE LAWS OF THIS COUNTRY.

The immigrants are flooding the border now through LEGAL ENTRY PORTS OF ENTRY..........trying to get in via Catch and Release again. Another Caravan of the flood approaches now with about 15000 in it...............And Congress and the Senate refuse to do a damned thing about the loop holes.

It hasn’t been a crisis when apprehensions were well over a million per year; so it isn’t now

It was a crisis then and a crisis now...........Funny how in 2006 the same assholes against a border wall were all for it then.............FOR VOTES...........They sounded just like TRUMP........

A Caravan of 15000 is coming now trying to take advantage of the loop holes.............and over 70,000 a year are dying to Opiods most of which come from the border.......especially heroin...................

Yes, the vast majority of heroin in this country is coming from Mexico and it is coming through CUSTOMS.

 

[candycorn]

Its supposedly a national emergency this year.

It wasn't a national emergency last year.

What changed in the last 2-3 months?

Nothing has changed for decades........and it has been a crisis for decades...........the new loop holes exposed and encouraged by the Dems in the past have caused unaccompanied children numbers coming to America to explode...............because after 20 days they are sent to family or relatives in the country and they are in..............Now they are flooding the border with families as the courts have done the same to ICE.........You can't separate them at the border.......with the back log of the courts at about 2 years..........the Immigration courts are overwelmed.......and the system is now forced to release the families from JUDICIAL ACTIVISM..............primarily the 9th Circuit Court of Liberal Hacks...................and Politicians who OPENLY SPIT ON THE LAWS OF THIS COUNTRY.

The immigrants are flooding the border now through LEGAL ENTRY PORTS OF ENTRY..........trying to get in via Catch and Release again. Another Caravan of the flood approaches now with about 15000 in it...............And Congress and the Senate refuse to do a damned thing about the loop holes.

It hasn’t been a crisis when apprehensions were well over a million per year; so it isn’t now

It was a crisis then and a crisis now...........Funny how in 2006 the same assholes against a border wall were all for it then.............FOR VOTES...........They sounded just like TRUMP........

A Caravan of 15000 is coming now trying to take advantage of the loop holes.............and over 70,000 a year are dying to Opiods most of which come from the border.......especially heroin...................

Opioids come from the border?

 

[eagle1462010]

We had 33,000 americans die last year by guns and nobody declared a crisis

We didn’t declare a crisis when JFK, MLK, RFK were shot

We didn’t declare a crisis when 25 six year olds were slaughtered at Sandy Hook



Where is the border crisis again?

Apples to oranges..........our laws on our citizens are much harder on CITIZENS than the illegals................Passing Kate's Law would have ended that..........but didn't happen.......

3 strikes and you get locked up for a minimum of 5 years.......more........10 years ...................Would be a pain in the ass for the drug cartels now wouldn't it.............LOL

Guess you like them Drug Cartels............I know Hillary did............and the Clinton Foundation from all the money laundering from HSBC Bank.......who laundered money for them as they gave the Clinton Crime Foundation butt loads of money.

You against tougher laws on repeat offenses at the border.............hmmm...........sorry......you are for Sanctuary and giving them Drivers Licenses and now HEALTH CARE................imagine that.

Now tell me how your side is for border security ........I need a good laugh.