CDZ How important is spending and debt in government?

Discussion in 'Clean Debate Zone' started by Foxfyre, Mar 25, 2016.

  1. Slade3200
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    Slade3200 Gold Member

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    For those of you who object to the debt, what specifically are you objecting to? Discretionary spending or the sale of treasury bonds or both?
     
  2. jwoodie
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    jwoodie Gold Member Supporting Member

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    Automatic cost-of-living increases. ALL federal programs should be frozen at current per capita spending levels until the the federal budget is balanced, which will then eventually occur through economic growth and inflation.
     
  3. sealybobo
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    sealybobo Diamond Member

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    Didn't they wipe out a lot of that money they printed after the 2007 great recession? A lot of people lost their homes and half their 401K's. I believe they got rid of a lot of the $ they created out of thin air by having a crash. I'm suggesting it was man made and done on purpose. THey can create or manufacture a crash anytime they want.
     
  4. andaronjim
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    andaronjim Gold Member

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    I think that the spending on the poor is absolutely ridiculous and needs to be stopped. After 20 trillion dollars of spending since 1964, the poor are still poor and need to get a boot to their arse. When you take away their ability to sit on their butts all day without earning the cash, then they keep doing the same thing. Take the trillion dollars a year and pay down the debt, not only will more people be working, but the debt would be gone in 20 years.. Win, Win.....


     
  5. Foxfyre
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    Foxfyre Eternal optimist Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    The housing bubble, building over a long time, that burst and caused the 2008 crash was certainly man made out of irresponsibility, blind greed, and a congress unwilling to act to deal with it. But that did not in any way bring down the national debt that continue to rise at an alarming rate, was already hugely unacceptable by the end of Bush 43's term and almost doubled again during the Obama administration.

    On inauguration day in 2001, the national debt was $5.7 trillion
    On inauguration day in 2009, the national debt was $10.626 trillion
    On inauguration day in 2017, the national debt was $19.944 trillion

    The debt increased in the Bush administration by 4.9 trillion.
    The debt increased in the Obama administration by 9.3 trillion

    Since inauguration day in January the national debt has increased to $20.6 trillion or has increased by 1.3 trillion so it has not slowed down. We have been operating under Obama's last budget up to October 1, so we will have to see if anything improves in a 100% Trump economy but I am not optimistic unless the culture in Washington completely changes and law makers start tending to business. Currently they are the permanent poltiical class who seem to care little about anything other than making themselves look good and increase their personal power, prestige, influence, and personal fortunes. I am pretty sure they they'll have theirs and be long gone so that somebody else gets the blame when the whole thing collapses around us.
     
  6. Foxfyre
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    Foxfyre Eternal optimist Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    But there we have the elephant in the room. Even reducing future spending on any of the 'poverty' or 'beneficial' programs will generate hateful headlines that will quickly go viral: "President (whomever) or Republicans (or whatever) slash or abolish programs for the poor or college kids or the elderly or women or whatever minority, etc." Images of evil Republicans pushing granny off the cliff or snatching food out of the mouths of babes appear.

    It takes a politician with more courage and intellectual honesty than most of the people in Washington have to withstand that kind of negative publicity, however dishonest that publicity is.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. sealybobo
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    sealybobo Diamond Member

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    But Republicans aren't doing anything about it.
     
  8. Leo123
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    Leo123 Silver Member

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    Fiat money makes monetary policy political.
     
  9. Foxfyre
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    Foxfyre Eternal optimist Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    But it requires some form of government to determine what value money will have. And it is a much simpler and more efficient means to buy and sell goods than is the barter system.

    But whatever value government places on the various forms of currency, if we owe more than we receive, we have accumulated debt.

    And some debt is reasonable and fiscally responsible such as appropriate debt to own a home or in business.

    And government may have very good reasons to incur some debt for important spending it must do to meet its constitutional responsibilities.

    But when is debt at the personal level, the corporate level, the city or state level, or the federal level a bad thing?
     
  10. MarathonMike
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    MarathonMike Platinum Member

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    There is a debt level somewhere in the neighborhood of $25 Trillion where it will be literally impossible to EVER pay it down unless we artificially depressed interest rates to zero. Since we are over $20 Trillion, it might be time to start taking debt seriously rather than spending money like spoiled rich kids.
     

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