How has invading Iraq helped us win the 'war on terror'?

[spillmind]

or even helped us get anywhere AHEAD of where we were going into this 'liberation' and now 'occupation'? are there less terrorists that hate the US now? is there now less of a threat of terror on the homefront?

 

[cptpwichita]

Originally posted by spillmind
or even helped us get anywhere AHEAD of where we were going into this 'liberation' and now 'occupation'? are there less terrorists that hate the US now? is there now less of a threat of terror on the homefront?

you can't win the war on terror because the koran and hadith are breeding grounds for violence and as long as we ignore that fact people will continue to die.

 

[spillmind]

you can't win the war on terror because the koran and hadith are breeding grounds for violence and as long as we ignore that fact people will continue to die.

oh? how many muslim friend do you have?
i'm PROUD to say that i know many of them, and as far as i know, they ARE MY FRIENDS and don't want to see me dead. funny how they are muslim, and yet i don't see any reason to fear them!

i think you need to fear ANY EXTREME faction of ANY RELIGION, not just islam.

when's the last time you read the koran, anyway?

 

[cptpwichita]

Originally posted by spillmind
oh? how many muslim friend do you have?
i'm PROUD to say that i know many of them, and as far as i know, they ARE MY FRIENDS and don't want to see me dead. funny how they are muslim, and yet i don't see any reason to fear them!

i think you need to fear ANY EXTREME faction of ANY RELIGION, not just islam.

when's the last time you read the koran, anyway?


i have read the koran and hadith you obviously haven't or you would remeber in the koran it says- take not christians and jews as friends.or how about the fact mohammed was a rapist,pedophile,had his followers assassinate those who disagree with him,robbed caravans,tortured prisoners and killed or enslaved entire cities through the jiyaz tax up to 50%

 

[spillmind]

i have read the koran and hadith you obviously haven't or you would remeber in the koran it says- take not christians and jews as friends.or how about the fact mohammed was a rapist,pedophile,had his followers assassinate those who disagree with him,robbed caravans,tortured prisoners and killed or enslaved entire cities through the jiyaz tax up to 50%

pick the point that you can actually respond to, and run with it, man! (never mind my other questions, right?)

did you read it in english? it still doesn't explain why my muslim friends don't want to KILL ME! are you saying they have eveil intentions behind that smile?! it must be nice to be omnipotent!

i believe you are errant to lump millions of muslims together with radicals. until you can distinguish between the two, the debate with you is totally pointless.

p.s. that's a lot of muslims to kill. better get started!

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by spillmind
or even helped us get anywhere AHEAD of where we were going into this 'liberation' and now 'occupation'? are there less terrorists that hate the US now? is there now less of a threat of terror on the homefront?

It most definitely has helped, although nothing has been won yet, and won't for many years to come.

Thinking that we should sit back and negotiate or let them continue their destructive ways is foolish thinking. So we aren't supposed to act on the worlds criminals because they may get angry?

Maybe we should stop hunting mass murderers within our borders as well, wouldn't want to anger the Manson's of the world.

 

[kcmcdonald]

It's one stop on the road to the end of the war on terror. Until the entire middel east is changed the war will go on. Freedom and democracy prevent war and terror. or in the case of W, free people are less likely to commit terror.

 

[MadMax]

Originally posted by spillmind
or even helped us get anywhere AHEAD of where we were going into this 'liberation' and now 'occupation'? are there less terrorists that hate the US now? is there now less of a threat of terror on the homefront?

It has brought many MOOSLIM assholes to IRAQ to meet their allmighty asshole MOOSLIM god in death " which is what the assholes seem to crave " and not here in our country. I am happy they shall meet their child molestin POS god on their sandy desolate shitty ground. You have the American military forces to thank for you not having to deal with these assholes blowing up your father, mother, grandmother, sons, and daughters. So if you would at LEAST acknowledge that fact I am sure the troops that protect your ass would appreciate at least your support and patriotism. And BTW I could care less about how many MOOSLUM friends you think you have.

 

[gaffer]

Originally posted by spillmind
or even helped us get anywhere AHEAD of where we were going into this 'liberation' and now 'occupation'? are there less terrorists that hate the US now? is there now less of a threat of terror on the homefront?

In answer to your question. It gives us a working point in the middle east. It rids the world of an extremely evil dictator. We plant democracy right in the middle of the middle east. And through that democracy we work at changing the minds of the people there as we kill off the radicals.

Your friends are obviously not radical islamists or you are an islamist yourself. You are correct about radicals of any religion being dangerous. But at this time the most dangerous and most organized are the islamic radicals.

I havn't read the koran. Only excerps in english. I do question anything that must be read and understood in one language only. Also the fact that all the holy sites of islam are located withing a small arabic part of the middle east. Its all about arab control of the world thru the islamic religion.

Ask your friends about islamic heaven. Their heaven comes to earth only after all the non-believers are either killed or converted. Islam is not a love thy nieghbor type of religion. And the radicals believe in killing any that stand in their way and terrorizing the rest into conversion. The non-radical element believe in conversion through teaching.

Yes there are less terrorist now. Everyday there are a few less. As we find them and kill or capture them. Another way to beat them is for the non-radical ones, like your friends to step forward and teach the radical ones. I don't see much of that happening, most of the islamic community is strangely silent in this respect.

The threat of terror is still here on the home front. but it has been sharply curtailed. And the more pressure we can put on the terrorist over there, the less likely they can act here. The best defense is still a good offense. Fight them on their lands, not ours. Radicals are pouring into Iraq to attack our military. Thats a good thing. Thats what our military does, fight. They are there taking on the radicals and the saddam supporters and disrupting all the plans of those radicals.

There's a war on. Its posible Iran maybe next to fall. Depends on whether the rational islamics rise up and take over as to whether we go in or not. The other front will be opening within the next year or so in Korea. Another secular government, like saddams. You as a liberal can then cry about 'what are we doing there?' we should be looking for bin laden.

I don't expect Bush to open any new fronts until after the election tho.

 

[spillmind]

Thinking that we should sit back and negotiate or let them continue their destructive ways is foolish thinking.

i know you're just being facetious, jim. we know we can't negotiate with them in a round table discussion, but we also have SEEN that the current method is leaving A LOT to be desired.

It's one stop on the road to the end of the war on terror.

NEWSFLASH, if there was a stop, i think we missed it! these people don't enjoy 'freedom' like you and i do. be serious.

It has brought many MOOSLIM assholes to IRAQ to meet their allmighty asshole MOOSLIM god in death

i couldn't get past this. maybe a little buckshot in those cans of bud will help him out? probably not this isn't anything close to a solution. oh, but i did see this:

And BTW I could care less about how many MOOSLUM friends you think you have.

i'm well aware of that. and that's just sad, dude. but it is your right! just don't be suprised when you see people rolling their eyes in the back of their heads. most of us left that mentality in middle school.

We plant democracy right in the middle of the middle east.

i'll assume this is in the magical future? it's certainly not there as we type.

Your friends are obviously not radical islamists or you are an islamist yourself.

no, and they represent a larger percentage of muslims that AREN'T radical. agreed, the current threat is a network of 'mostly' muslims. however, i cannot prove this.

Ask your friends about islamic heaven. Their heaven comes to earth only after all the non-believers are either killed or converted. Islam is not a love thy nieghbor type of religion. And the radicals believe in killing any that stand in their way and terrorizing the rest into conversion. The non-radical element believe in conversion through teaching.

i'm well aquainted with the rendition of the islamic heaven, esp. for radicals. much like the bible, much of this text is taken as rhetorical, as opposed to completely literal.

Yes there are less terrorist now. Everyday there are a few less. As we find them and kill or capture them. Another way to beat them is for the non-radical ones, like your friends to step forward and teach the radical ones. I don't see much of that happening, most of the islamic community is strangely silent in this respect.

i'd really like for you to back that assertion up with some kind of factual data. i argue more are being created every single day... there is a mutual respect issue that has not been attained, and has been hampered further by our invasion. good point, however!

The best defense is still a good offense. Fight them on their lands, not ours.

unfortunately, we don't have the MEANS to continue as we are... even if we wanted to. we are so far in debt, i'm cringing just thinking about the deficit once (if ever) we get out of iraq.

Radicals are pouring into Iraq to attack our military. Thats a good thing. Thats what our military does, fight.

i'm not so sure about this anymores... we've done a better job on the borders. besides, thos looked like iraqi citizens to me dragging those burned corpses through the street last week?

There's a war on.

sounds like dubya

Its posible Iran maybe next to fall.

we don't have the money, even if we WANTED to.

You as a liberal can then cry about 'what are we doing there?' we should be looking for bin laden.

was fine till this point. common sense is not liberalism. give it up.

I don't expect Bush to open any new fronts until after the election tho.

cut taxes and attack another country? just wait until we pull another 'iraq'... you'll find how very few allies we have then. it doesn't take much of an imagination.

 

[preemptingyou03]

>>>cut taxes and attack another country? just wait until we pull another 'iraq'... you'll find how very few allies we have then. it doesn't take much of an imagination.<<<

We'll see how many allies we have with North Korea, since France and Germany aren't in financial bed with Jong-Il like they were with Saddam.

Honestly... are French lives more important than Italian lives? Are German lives more important than Polish lives?

 

[preemptingyou03]

How has Iraq helped in the War on Terror? Well, besides moving a mass murdering totalitarian terrorist dictator and his terrorist regime from power... and besides installing a free nation in the heart of the tyrannical Middle East...

Saddam can't fund Hamas, Islamic Jihad, or Hezbollah anymore. He can't sponsor al-Qaeda operatives like Zarqawi, and fund and sponsor groups with ties to al-Qaeda like Ansar, the MEK, the PKK. He can't shelter Abdul Yassin or Abu Abbas. He can't aid Abu Nidal and his ANO network. Must I continue? It'll take too long.

 

[Avatar4321]

NEWSFLASH, if there was a stop, i think we missed it! these people don't enjoy 'freedom' like you and i do. be serious.

Funny i see quite the opposite. I see them enjoying their freedom quite a bit. I mean who doesnt enjoy speaking their views? who doesnt enjoy practicing their religion freely? Who doesnt enjoy the free press? (other then politicians)

sure there are probably a few that dont want to enjoy their freedom, but they wont be alive long enough to cause problems.

 

[preemptingyou03]

All I have to say is... look at Baghdad in 2008. That's it.

 

[spillmind]

How has Iraq helped in the War on Terror? Well, besides moving a mass murdering totalitarian terrorist dictator and his terrorist regime from power... and besides installing a free nation in the heart of the tyrannical Middle East...

*yawn* yeah, like he's the first... or last.... and not like the CIA helped the ba'ath party stay in power, or did we trade arms with them to fight iran, and then double crossed him. pretty convenient to label him as the anti-christ when it fits your purpose, no?

Saddam can't fund Hamas, Islamic Jihad, or Hezbollah anymore. He can't sponsor al-Qaeda operatives like Zarqawi, and fund and sponsor groups with ties to al-Qaeda like Ansar, the MEK, the PKK. He can't shelter Abdul Yassin or Abu Abbas. He can't aid Abu Nidal and his ANO network. Must I continue? It'll take too long.

your point? terror has suffered because of his deposition? who's killing our people over there, then? must be the ghost of saddam past. sorry, but the point is past moot- it's moved on to stale.

Funny i see quite the opposite. I see them enjoying their freedom quite a bit. I mean who doesnt enjoy speaking their views? who doesnt enjoy practicing their religion freely? Who doesnt enjoy the free press? (other then politicians)

don't forget 'freedom to get blown to bits waiting in the line to get a job', or even the phantom freedom that women allegedly enjoy? or maybe even the 'freedom' that afghanis enjoy? oh, but our job isn't to instill 'democracy' there? you lost, me, buddy. stick to a little consistency, and you've got my attention.

All I have to say is... look at Baghdad in 2008. That's it.

THERE'S A REASON YOU POSTED TO THIS THREAD THREE TIMES. pass along the winning lotto numbers, wouldya? :rotflmao: i'll believe it WHEN I SEE IT. and it ain't gonna be anytime soon. i would LOVE for you to prove me wrong. until then, it's just a bunch of right wingers hoping and praying that somehow, majestically cohesion will come to the iraqi society as a whole. if the everyday news isn't sobering you up, maybe time will? (i hope!)

 

[MadMax]

Originally posted by spillmind
*yawn* yeah, like he's the first... or last.... and not like the CIA helped the ba'ath party stay in power, or did we trade arms with them to fight iran, and then double crossed him. pretty convenient to label him as the anti-christ when it fits your purpose, no?

your point? terror has suffered because of his deposition? who's killing our people over there, then? must be the ghost of saddam past. sorry, but the point is past moot- it's moved on to stale.

don't forget 'freedom to get blown to bits waiting in the line to get a job', or even the phantom freedom that women allegedly enjoy? or maybe even the 'freedom' that afghanis enjoy? oh, but our job isn't to instill 'democracy' there? you lost, me, buddy. stick to a little consistency, and you've got my attention.

THERE'S A REASON YOU POSTED TO THIS THREAD THREE TIMES. pass along the winning lotto numbers, wouldya? :rotflmao: i'll believe it WHEN I SEE IT. and it ain't gonna be anytime soon. i would LOVE for you to prove me wrong. until then, it's just a bunch of right wingers hoping and praying that somehow, majestically cohesion will come to the iraqi society as a whole. if the everyday news isn't sobering you up, maybe time will? (i hope!)

Did we solve ALL the problems in Afghanistan??? Fock no, did we help get them on the right path??? Hell yeah, did it take 4,5 or so years to get Japan and Germany on the right track??? Hell yeah. You want overnight results?? I say piss on you, cause you are unrealistic in your expectations. Hell, all I see is a bunch of left wing whackos trying to destroy a country that has a President with some balls for once... Hell according to you and your ilk we should bend over and let Europe have their way????I am sorry , you never said that. Hell the U.S. is the root of all evil on the planet and I know war for oil blah blah blah Hey I know, ask the cowardly Spaniards how to appease and coddle the lil MOOSLUM bitches??Would it help if we just shut up and stay home??? Fuck no it won't

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by spillmind
until then, it's just a bunch of right wingers hoping and praying that somehow, majestically cohesion will come to the iraqi society as a whole.

You got that correct, it's apparently only the right that is hoping and praying for a better Iraq. It's very sad that you and so many like you hope and pray for bad news in Iraq so you can rush here with your "I told you so" posts. Very sad indeed, but I'm glad you finally showed your true colors.

 

[DKSuddeth]

Originally posted by preemptingyou03
All I have to say is... look at Baghdad in 2008. That's it.

You got that correct, it's apparently only the right that is hoping and praying for a better Iraq. It's very sad that you and so many like you hope and pray for bad news in Iraq so you can rush here with your "I told you so" posts. Very sad indeed, but I'm glad you finally showed your true colors.

Its not about not hoping for it to work, its about knowing it won't because thats not what is going to happen. Theres too much religious influence thats going to cave an iraqi democracy within weeks of the turnover. iraq will look like Israel/palestine between their factions.

 

[preemptingyou03]

*yawn* yeah, like he's the first... or last.... and not like the CIA helped the ba'ath party stay in power, or did we trade arms with them to fight iran, and then double crossed him. pretty convenient to label him as the anti-christ when it fits your purpose, no?

This will always amaze me. Always. Of course we supported the Baathists. Of course! During the Cold War, we supported a lot of bad regimes due to the fact we needed to stop communism. Our policy was containment. Containment means we must defend the enemy of our enemy. Had we not backed Afghan rebels and had we not backed rugged regimes such as the Saddam's, communism could have influenced its way into the rich Middle East. The Soviet Union may still be in existance.

Times change. And when the times changed to where Saddam became an enemy, we must look at his past, regardless of where we stood on it then. Did we SUPPORT him gassing the Kurds? No, of course not. But we did in fact turn a blind eye, much the way we turn a blind eye to the Saudi torture of their people today, much the way we turned a blind eye towards the Soviet threat during WWII.

Times will reform again.

You say going into Iraq didn't help the War on Terror, even though Iraq sponsored about 7 terrorist groups, funded about 8 terrorist groups, and gave shelter to about 4-6 of some of the world's most wanted terrorists. You say it wasn't part of the War on Terror. (Then what is?) You say it hurt it. (What would you suggest? Baking them cookies?)

 

[spillmind]

You got that correct, it's apparently only the right that is hoping and praying for a better Iraq. It's very sad that you and so many like you hope and pray for bad news in Iraq so you can rush here with your "I told you so" posts. Very sad indeed, but I'm glad you finally showed your true colors.

maybe i misspoke, or maybe you misinterpreted, but WE ALL HOPE FOR A GOOD OUTCOME, but it's only the right wingers that actually think it will happen.

Did we solve ALL the problems in Afghanistan??? Fock no, did we help get them on the right path??? Hell yeah, did it take 4,5 or so years to get Japan and Germany on the right track??? Hell yeah. You want overnight results?? I say piss on you, cause you are unrealistic in your expectations. Hell, all I see is a bunch of left wing whackos trying to destroy a country that has a President with some balls for once... Hell according to you and your ilk we should bend over and let Europe have their way????I am sorry , you never said that. Hell the U.S. is the root of all evil on the planet and I know war for oil blah blah blah Hey I know, ask the cowardly Spaniards how to appease and coddle the lil MOOSLUM bitches??Would it help if we just shut up and stay home??? Fuck no it won't

@#$%&^*!!! F*** you!!! those mooslim aholes hate us cos we're free! i think i've heard just about everything you've got to say. way to represent for the bushies!

Its not about not hoping for it to work, its about knowing it won't because thats not what is going to happen. Theres too much religious influence thats going to cave an iraqi democracy within weeks of the turnover. iraq will look like Israel/palestine between their factions.

you don't have to be a gawd damned token lib to UNDERSTAND SIMPLE COMMON SENSE! if it were a snake, i swear it would bite you!

You say going into Iraq didn't help the War on Terror, even though Iraq sponsored about 7 terrorist groups, funded about 8 terrorist groups, and gave shelter to about 4-6 of some of the world's most wanted terrorists. You say it wasn't part of the War on Terror. (Then what is?) You say it hurt it. (What would you suggest? Baking them cookies?)

gee, taking a quick glance at the policy shifts that you pointed out for a couple answers might help you out. too bad we can't always be the good guy! too bad not everyone will forgive actions we've made in the past! you want to suffocate the terrorists in the ME? STOP BUYING OIL. put some of our money into maximizing energy solutions and exploring new ones, and you might have a minor epiphany! oh but then the oil lobbyists and those with the contracts that bush caters to wouldn't like that, now would they? i'll wait for you to dismiss this as a non-factor, laugh my ass off, and then flesh it out for you in more detail, if you really need that much insight.

Times will reform again.

But we did in fact turn a blind eye,

so don't be suprised when the gloabl community ask where were we then? the current US serving policy is going to have to answer with some accountability SOMEDAY. can't just keep going around doing what's 'right' when it suits us! that's not exactly, 'right', now is it?