How does society benefit from welfare?

Discussion in 'Clean Debate Zone' started by Some Guy, Aug 1, 2012.

  1. Againsheila
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    Againsheila Gold Member

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    I've said this before but everyone ignores it and asks again and again and again. Minimum Wage at 40 hours per week should provide enough income for one person to provide an apartment with utilities, food, transportation and medical care with a little extra to pay for clothes and other necessities for himself. I do not think that is unreasonable. My brother, working a mw job back in 1969 was able to get his own apartment (granted he slept on the floor and had lawn furniture in his living room) he was able to buy a new car on payments and take college courses in the evenings. Today on mw, you can't even put a roof over your head. How can anyone get ahead if they can't even survive?
     
  2. Jackson
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    Jackson Gold Member Supporting Member

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    MW jobs are meant for entry job workers to establish a resume and a work ethic. It is to pay for car insurance and possibly prapare for college tuition in the future. It can be used for welfare work requirements. From there, a worker can go to cashiers in stores and restaurant help where they can earn tips and then factory work and vocational training. From the MW jobs any worker can decide their own path. The government has programs up the gazoo.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2012
  3. Some Guy
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    Some Guy Deregulated User

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    That was crystal clear in your earlier posts so i'm not sure who's ignoring it. That's fine to have that view. I think you're way too narrowly focused on the minimum wage earner only without too much regard to how it impact overall employment as well as wage of those above minimum wage.
     
  4. Some Guy
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    Some Guy Deregulated User

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    I wouldn't call them "meant" for entry level workers. They're minimum wage jobs because they only require the most basic of skills, skills that most everyone has. They're easy to understand and perform in most circumstances and only require a small amount of training. As such, they're well filled by teenagers and indeed act as a springboard to better things, or at least that's the idea.

    As our society becomes less manufacturing based and more information based, it's getting ever harder to make a good living simply by the sweat of your brow. You need to know something, more than the next guy, in order to make some good money.

    If you raised the minimum wage enough to where anyone making it can afford housing, health care, furniture, clothes, etc, then there would be fewer, perhaps far less fewer minimum wage jobs available due to the rise in overhead.
     
  5. Avorysuds
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    Avorysuds Gold Member

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    So there is no debate because you won't give an answer as to what you think minimum wage should even be around.

    One argument is that minimum wage can go up because such a low % of people are on it, but what people don't mention is the % of people very close to minimum wage.

    Some issues you will run into is that if you bumped min wage up let’s say a full 2 dollars from the 8 dollar figure the ramifications are dramatic. Firstly the employer has to come up with the payroll and taxes for these employees, then there are the people that were once making 1 dollar over min wage that now got a raise. Next is that now at 10$ an hour that is the starting point, meaning when people want a raise it actually costs the employer far more.

    Lets figure payroll without taxes for 8$ an hour and 5 employees full time for a small business no taxes.
    8x40x4x12 = 15,360per employee. 15,360x5 = 76,800$ a year for 5 employee’s.
    Now let’s figure a 2 dollar wage increase.
    10x40x4x12 = 19,200per employee. 19,200x5 = 96,000 a year for 5 employee’s.

    The difference is 19,200$ a year for the employer. Now, what if that employer was only making 70,000 a year for their self? 50,800$ is what the employer now makes, that’s far less to invest with, what if one year a recession happens and they lose 30% of their business?

    The point I’m trying to make is already the employer either needs to fire 1 full time employee or raise their prices. The only other option is to pray to God that a recession does not hit like they do once every 10 years. We’re not even getting past payroll and already the UE rate will jump or prices will have to rise. All jobs are not created equal, by that I mean if a Person that speaks poor English, can’t spell and zero experience can walk on the job and do it *right*, it probably was not a job that deserved higher pay.


    I believe you have a lot to think about when it comes to raising the min wage, I suggest you do some research and go into it without a bias point of view or the answer will only offend you.

    If welfare, SS, Medicare Medicaid, min wage and unemployment were all such great programs then why do we have more people in poverty today than before these programs? Why is the middle class shrinking so quickly over so many years?
     
  6. Againsheila
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    Againsheila Gold Member

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    Who decided that mw jobs are "entry" jobs? When was that decided? Do you have any idea how many mw workers are not people who just entered the workforce? That they aren't living at home and going to high school?
     
  7. Againsheila
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    Againsheila Gold Member

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    A rising tide raises all boats....
     
  8. Avorysuds
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    Avorysuds Gold Member

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    QFT.

    Next people would elect politicians that would outlaw firing employee’s, then people could have riots if anyone ever tried to take away their welfare job.

    Wonder if that has happened yet...... ...... .. . . . . . . . In another country =D
     
  9. Avorysuds
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    Avorysuds Gold Member

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    Correct, thus the raise in MW becomes pointless seeing as shortly after people will realize they are in the same boat.

    In fact that’s not correct because that tide would sink a few boats (un-employe people)
     
  10. Some Guy
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    Some Guy Deregulated User

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    I think it's even bigger than that. If i'm making $9 per hour right now with an $8 minimum wage rate, and the minimum wage is raised to $10, i'm not settling for $10: i want $11 now. It would apply for basically everyone on the payroll if they value themselves at some rate above what the minimum is. So, either bump them up, have them be disgruntled (and probably do a poor job as a result, or worse) or risk losing them to another place.

    I said it before but it seems to have fallen on deaf ears. If a small business owner has a job to offer at $6 per hour and someone wants to take it, it seems like a nice mutual agreement as the employee is under no obligation to take that job if they don't want to. They're more than welcome to seek out a job that pays more. And if they're worth it: they'll get it.
     

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