How Do You Define Freedom?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Foxfyre, Dec 10, 2009.

  1. Foxfyre
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    Foxfyre Eternal optimist Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    How do you define freedom? Those on the left and Obama supporters define it one way. The much-maligned Tea Partiers and Taxpayer groups define it another way. The Founders defined it as our unalienable right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness with the understanding that one man's rights end where the next man's rights begin. What is your definition?

    What rights must be included in our definition of freedom. How do we define life? How do we define liberty? How do we define the pursuit of happiness?

    Listen to this excerpt from a recent speech delivered by Judge Napolitano in defense of freedom and in protest to freedoms that are gradually being chipped away. And then share what part of freedom you would fight for or put it all on the line for:

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7n2m-X7OIuY"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7n2m-X7OIuY[/ame]
     
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  2. JakeStarkey
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    JakeStarkey Diamond Member Supporting Member

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    Thomas Sowell's record is a failure. Let's move on.
     
  3. 2Parties
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    2Parties Senior Member

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    I don't. It means too many different things to too many people.
     
  4. midcan5
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    midcan5 liberal / progressive

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    "The basic test of freedom is perhaps less in what we are free to do than in what we are free not to do." Eric Hoffer


    Four woman live in two different countries, one is a democracy and the second totalitarian. All the woman believe that they live in complete individual freedom. That value is written into the governing documents of each country. One day the two woman from the democracy decide to go on vacation. One woman buys her ticket and gets on a plane to Bermuda. The other woman has limited resources and when she gets to the airport is told she cannot board the plane without a ticket. Finally after much dispute she is arrested and thrown into a state jail.

    One day the two woman in the totalitarian state decide to travel abroad. One works in government and gains permission to go to Bermuda. The other woman checks with her local commissar and is told she cannot travel to Bermuda. Travel to Bermuda is not allowed. She disputes the decision and is soon thrown into a state jail. Two woman exercised their freedom, two couldn't yet each held the same value.

    If our original premise is they all have equal freedom, why are the results within these two distinct states similar? While the answer is obvious can we then say a person with limited resources is free?


    "Where freedom is real, equality is the passion of the masses. Where equality is real, freedom is the passion of a small minority." Eric Hoffer

    good read on freedom

    http://www.counterpunch.com/green11242007.html
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2009
  5. 2Parties
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    2Parties Senior Member

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    Every human being has limited resources.
     
  6. midcan5
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    midcan5 liberal / progressive

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    True, but then can we say they are free? or do we need to place freedom along some continuum. I am thinking of children and say UHC for those in need. See link I added as I think the Judge is a complete idiot.
     
  7. Foxfyre
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    Foxfyre Eternal optimist Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    What did the Judge say specifically that you thought was idiotic?

    Whose freedom and property are you wiling to take so that those children and/or those in need can have healthcare? Who gets to decide? Who gets to decide who decides? What criteria will be used to determine who will not have freedom to use their own industry, property, resources as they choose and who will be able to claim another's industry, property, or resources for their own benefit?

    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
    Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote..." -Ben Franklin
     
  8. Foxfyre
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    Foxfyre Eternal optimist Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    So that I do not misunderstand you, would you please clarify?

    Let's set aside the absurdity of saying that something or somebody is free when obviously it or s/he is not.

    But are you saying that nobody is free who does not have the same resources as everybody else and/or achieve the sames results as everybody else? That whenever there is imbalance, there is no freedom?
     
  9. Foxfyre
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    Foxfyre Eternal optimist Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    Yes, already I see some here disagreeing with my definition of freedom and/or liberty. And of course your definition also won't agree with many here.

    But do you have a definition? What does freedom/liberty look like to you? What conditions have to exist before you feel that you have liberty?
     
  10. JakeStarkey
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    JakeStarkey Diamond Member Supporting Member

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    Liberty and freedom are two different concepts, foxfyre. They meant differently to the Romans from whom the Founders, particularly Adams, Jefferson, and Madison, drew upon for their political philosophies. Your teabaggers are not founded on those meanings.
     

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