How do we know?

[SpidermanTuba]

How do we know that Jesus was actually dead when he was removed from the cross and put in the tomb?

Its much more logical of an explanation to say that the people who buried him mistakenly assumed he was dead, when he wasn't really. He was only on the cross for a few hours, then he was stabbed, and taken down. People have recovered from stab wounds before.

 

[archangel]

How do we know that Jesus was actually dead when he was removed from the cross and put in the tomb?

Its much more logical of an explanation to say that the people who buried him mistakenly assumed he was dead, when he wasn't really. He was only on the cross for a few hours, then he was stabbed, and taken down. People have recovered from stab wounds before.

It's Easter weekend...what the hey moma forget to get you a Easter basket or what? Then again maybe Jesus is like the "Energizer Bunny" He just keeps onna going!

 

[Avatar4321]

How do we know that Jesus was actually dead when he was removed from the cross and put in the tomb?

Its much more logical of an explanation to say that the people who buried him mistakenly assumed he was dead, when he wasn't really. He was only on the cross for a few hours, then he was stabbed, and taken down. People have recovered from stab wounds before.

Well how about we do this, we crucify you, then bury you for three days and if you can get up after that, then maybe we will accept that your theory could be possible.

Being as I doubt you actually want to test your theory, what does it matter?

The eye witnesses say that Christ ascended to heaven afterwards. I think that would have been pretty difficult to fake if He hadnt actually risen from the dead. But let me ask you this, why do you think His disciples who had witnessed the Resurrection would have gone to their deaths telling people of the joyous news it was just some fraud?

 

[SpidermanTuba]

Well how about we do this, we crucify you, then bury you for three days and if you can get up after that, then maybe we will accept that your theory could be possible.

He was put in a tomb. His body wasn't covered with dirt. And they took the people down from the crosses after only a few hours bc the Sabbath was approaching. It normally takes days to die from crucifiction.

The eye witnesses say that Christ ascended to heaven afterwards.

And a substatial portion of the population thinks they've been kidnapped by aliens. Must be true.

I think that would have been pretty difficult to fake if He hadnt actually risen from the dead. But let me ask you this, why do you think His disciples who had witnessed the Resurrection would have gone to their deaths telling people of the joyous news it was just some fraud?

Plenty of Budhists have died for their faith, this must mean Budhism is also the one true religion. So have the Jews, by your logic, this means Jesus didn't rise from the dead since the Jews don't believe he did, and they died for their beliefs. How can Jesus both have risen from the dead and not have risen from the dead?

 

[archangel]

He was put in a tomb. His body wasn't covered with dirt. And they took the people down from the crosses after only a few hours bc the Sabbath was approaching. It normally takes days to die from crucifiction.




And a substatial portion of the population thinks they've been kidnapped by aliens. Must be true.


Plenty of Budhists have died for their faith, this must mean Budhism is also the one true religion. So have the Jews, by your logic, this means Jesus didn't rise from the dead since the Jews don't believe he did, and they died for their beliefs. How can Jesus both have risen from the dead and not have risen from the dead?

to one spidey...... "You gotta shout-shout knock yourself out...you gotta yell-yell loud and swell...you gotta scream-scream loud and mean... put another dime in the record machine"!!!! :rotflmao:

 

[Nuc]

Plenty of Budhists have died for their faith, this must mean Budhism is also the one true religion.

I'll know I've found the one true religion when it doesn't claim to be the one true religion. That's the signifier.

 

[Annie]

I'll know I've found the one true religion when it doesn't claim to be the one true religion. That's the signifier.

So shoot ST, he's claiming such.

 

[Nuc]

So shoot ST, he's claiming such.

Seems like he's more interested in casting doubt upon the resurrection than being a proponent of anything. Or is he? I don't read all his posts.

 

[Nienna]

He was put in a tomb. His body wasn't covered with dirt. And they took the people down from the crosses after only a few hours bc the Sabbath was approaching. It normally takes days to die from crucifiction.

Roman guards were very experienced at telling when people were dead. They routinely broke the legs of criminals to hasten their deaths on crosses. The guards came to Jesus, and saw that he was already dead, so they didn't need to break his legs. When they pierced his side, blood and water flowed out, indicating that the sac around the heart was punctured. It would have filled with fluid as he was slowly asphixiated.

He was placed in a tomb, with hard-nosed Roman guards, men accustomed to death and war. But, when the women went to the tomb on Resurrection morning, the guards were missing. Roman guards could be put to death for deserting their posts. What could have made them so fearful?

Are we to believe that a man beaten and bloodied, with a pierced heart, with no food or hydration for days in the tomb was strong enough to roll aside a huge stone and overcome more than one Roman guard?

 

[Mr. P]

Oh GOD!!!! Why do people want to or or :chains: those of different beliefs?

 

[GotZoom]

Roman guards were very experienced at telling when people were dead. They routinely broke the legs of criminals to hasten their deaths on crosses. The guards came to Jesus, and saw that he was already dead, so they didn't need to break his legs. When they pierced his side, blood and water flowed out, indicating that the sac around the heart was punctured. It would have filled with fluid as he was slowly asphixiated.

He was placed in a tomb, with hard-nosed Roman guards, men accustomed to death and war. But, when the women went to the tomb on Resurrection morning, the guards were missing. Roman guards could be put to death for deserting their posts. What could have made them so fearful?

Are we to believe that a man beaten and bloodied, with a pierced heart, with no food or hydration for days in the tomb was strong enough to roll aside a huge stone and overcome more than one Roman guard?

Mom...excellent points but unless photo or video evidence is presented, he isn't going to believe it.

 

[Nienna]

Mom...excellent points but unless photo or video evidence is presented, he isn't going to believe it.

Hmmm... that kind of makes most of history unbelievable.




PS... photos and videos can be doctored. Do you think he knows?

 

[KarlMarx]

How do we know that Jesus was actually dead when he was removed from the cross and put in the tomb?

Its much more logical of an explanation to say that the people who buried him mistakenly assumed he was dead, when he wasn't really. He was only on the cross for a few hours, then he was stabbed, and taken down. People have recovered from stab wounds before.

You can believe that if you'd like, that's your right. Not all of us belong to the Church of Carl Sagan and Stephen Hawking.

Why do other people's beliefs matter to you? Are you trying to convert them to your beliefs? Or do you feel threatened by the fact that they believe in anything at all?

 

[manu1959]

How do we know that Jesus was actually dead when he was removed from the cross and put in the tomb?

Its much more logical of an explanation to say that the people who buried him mistakenly assumed he was dead, when he wasn't really. He was only on the cross for a few hours, then he was stabbed, and taken down. People have recovered from stab wounds before.

why do you care?

 

[Nienna]

Hey, guys... I think it's good that people question beliefs. As long as it is done in a respectful manner.

 

[manu1959]

Hey, guys... I think it's good that people question beliefs. As long as it is done in a respectful manner.

when spidey does some thing in a respectful way let me know

 

[GotZoom]

Hmmm... that kind of makes most of history unbelievable.

I see you have met Spidey. This is his mantra. If he doesn't agree with what "most" people believe, then he questions it and asks us to prove ourselves.

I have yet to see him prove..or even try to prove...his unbelief of specific moments of history.

PS... photos and videos can be doctored. Do you think he knows?

I'm sure he does. He probably took a class last semester that shows how to do it.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

How do we know that Jesus was actually dead when he was removed from the cross and put in the tomb?

Its much more logical of an explanation to say that the people who buried him mistakenly assumed he was dead, when he wasn't really. He was only on the cross for a few hours, then he was stabbed, and taken down. People have recovered from stab wounds before.

That's the old "swoon" theory.

(1)The Swoon Theory

There is the theory of those who assert that Christ did not really die upon the cross, that His supposed death was only a temporary swoon, and that His Resurrection was simply a return to consciousness. This was advocated by Paulus ("Exegetisches Handbuch", 1842, II, p. 929) and in a modified form by Hase ("Gesch. Jesu", n. 112), but it does not agree with the data furnished by the Gospels. The scourging and the crown of thorns, the carrying of the cross and the crucifixion, the three hours on the cross and the piercing of the Sufferer's side cannot have brought on a mere swoon. His real death is attested by the centurion and the soldiers, by the friends of Jesus and by his most bitter enemies. His stay in a sealed sepulchre for thirty-six hours, in an atmosphere poisoned by the exhalations of a hundred pounds of spices, which would have of itself sufficed to cause death. Moreover, if Jesus had merely returned from a swoon, the feelings of Easter morning would have been those of sympathy rather than those of joy and triumph, the Apostles would have been roused to the duties of a sick chamber rather than to apostolic work, the life of the powerful wonderworker would have ended in ignoble solitude and inglorious obscurity, and His vaunted sinlessness would have changed into His silent approval of a lie as the foundation stone of His Church. No wonder that later critics of the Resurrection, like Strauss, have heaped contempt on the old theory of a swoon.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12789a.htm

The Resurrection of Jesus Christ is either ...
the greatest event, or the greatest fraud — in history!

Did Jesus Christ actually rise from the dead?

Dr. Greenleaf, the Royal Professor of Law at Harvard University, was one of the greatest legal minds that ever lived. He wrote the famous legal volume entitled, A Treatise on the Law of Evidence, considered by many the greatest legal volume ever written. Dr. Simon Greenleaf believed the Resurrection of Jesus Christ was a hoax.

And he determined, once and for all, to expose the "myth" of the Resurrection. After thoroughly examining the evidence for the resurrection — Dr. Greenleaf came to the exact opposite conclusion! He wrote a book entitled, An Examination of the Testimony of the Four Evangelists by the Rules of Evidence Administered in the Courts of Justice. In which he emphatically stated:

"it was IMPOSSIBLE that the apostles could have persisted in affirming the truths they had narrated, had not JESUS CHRIST ACTUALLY RISEN FROM THE DEAD, . . ." (Simon Greenleaf, An Examination of the Testimony of the Four Evangelists by the Rules of Evidence Administered in the Courts of Justice, p.29).

Greenleaf concluded that according to the jurisdiction of legal evidence the resurrection of Jesus Christ was the best supported event in all of history!

And not only that, Dr. Greenleaf was so convinced by the overwhelming evidence, he committed his life to Jesus Christ!

What changed his mind? What evidence did Dr. Greenleaf encounter that so drastically turned him around? What facts did he discover that he could not rationally ignore?

http://www.av1611.org/resur.html

 

[jillian]

*sigh* ummmmmmmm...... you do know you're arguing stuff that really isn't up for argument, right? People either believe stuff or don't believe stuff when it comes to religion. That's why they call it "faith".

just checking....

:scratch:

 

[5stringJeff]

How do we know that Jesus was actually dead when he was removed from the cross and put in the tomb?

Its much more logical of an explanation to say that the people who buried him mistakenly assumed he was dead, when he wasn't really. He was only on the cross for a few hours, then he was stabbed, and taken down. People have recovered from stab wounds before.

Good question.

First, Jesus was scourged. If you saw the Passion of the Christ, you'd get an idea of about how brutal the beating was. So he had already lost a significant amount of blood before being crucified.

Second, he was, of course, crucified. That entailed being nailed to the cross, hanging by a nail in each wrist and supported by a third nail that went through the ankles. The Romans, who had long since perfected crucifixion, did this to prolong suffering. The crucifixee would hang and be unable to exhale. Eventually, enough CO2 would build up in his bloodstream that the pain would begin to numb. At this point, he could push up on his ankles enough to get a breath or two. Meanwhile, the person was bleeding out of the holes in his wrists and ankles - not to mention, in Jesus' case, his back. Jesus was on the cross for six hours, so he would have lost a whole lot of blood.

Third, the Roman soldiers, who went to break everyone's legs (to prevent the ability to push up and continue breathing) saw that Jesus was already dead. He still stabbed Jesus in the heart, causing yet another gaping wound, through which flowed even more blood.

Fourth, the Bible states that Jesus was wrapped, head to toe, in roughly 75 pounds worth of burial cloth.

Fifth, Jesus was placed into a tomb with a large rock outside.

Sixth, a Roman guard was placed outside of the tomb, by the request of the Jews.

So, for the swoon theory to be correct, Jesus would have had to:
a. Been healed of five major holes (wrists, ankles, heart) and numerous wounds over the course of about 36 hours, without medical attention.
b. Replaced all the blood he lost, without additional nourishment.
c. Remove the 75 pounds of burial cloth, which also covered his nose and mouth, preventing breathing.
d. Roll the large rock away from the mouth of the tomb, by himself.
e. Overcome a 16-man Roman guard, by himself.

It is much more plausible to me, reviewing the evidence, to conclude that God miraculously healed Jesus' body and raised Him from the dead.

For more information, see: http://www.ourcatholicfaith.org/crucifixion.html