How Do We Grow Our Economy?

[KissMy]

How do we grow our economy once we cease to have any growth in the population?

You can grow our consumption to increase our living standards.

 

[zeke]

First of all, who says our economy has to continually grow?

Way back in the day, our economy grew because we made pretty much everything we consumed. Clothing, house hold items, food, everything. We made it we consumed it and after exporting it everybody did better.

And between the growth in population and the growth in wages, our economy grew and our standard of living increased.

But now most consurmer goods are made out of the country and we in the USA have to hope that these other countries wages don't grow to fast because then we wouldn't be able to afford the items they make. Seeing as how our wages for most workers are flat or declining.

No, there is nothing that says our overall economy has to grow. Population growth or not. A larger population simply means more competition for lower wage jobs and the opportunity for even lower wages being paid as more people are willing to take any work for any wage.

Nah, if we want the economy to really grow, we need to start building everything again. And that ain't gonna happen.

So get used to a declining standard of living for most and a hugely more prosperous standard of living for a relative few.

No big deal. Nothing last forever. But it was sweet while it lasted.

 

[Sallow]

Basic economics has no ideology.

Saying that there is a "pie" presumes that wealth is finite and there should be someone, automatically presumed smarter than everyone else, doing the "divvying"...This flies in the face of even Keynesian voodoo economics.

That's the reality, Scooter.

One of the few rare and smart posts by you..

Saying that there is a "pie" presumes that wealth is finite ....


isn't wealth ='s $$$ - or do the wealthy print their own money ? or in Oddball's case dig for "more" gold, that is infinite.

Well at least he hit the concept that most conservatives don't get.

"Wealth" is not the paper money..or even money. Money is a placeholder.

Wealth is "stuff". By that I mean, stuff you grow, stuff you dig out of the ground, stuff you build and stuff you provide. Or as in the drivers of the economy:

Agriculture.
Mining.
Manufacturing.
Services.

THAT'S the economy.

 

[Sallow]

Is it like some wild stretch of the imagination to the liberal mind that the government is a consumer of goods and services...competing with all the other consumers...

This is not rocket science.

That's not the case.

 

[The Rabbi]

One of the few rare and smart posts by you..

Saying that there is a "pie" presumes that wealth is finite ....


isn't wealth ='s $$$ - or do the wealthy print their own money ? or in Oddball's case dig for "more" gold, that is infinite.

Well at least he hit the concept that most conservatives don't get.

"Wealth" is not the paper money..or even money. Money is a placeholder.

Wealth is "stuff". By that I mean, stuff you grow, stuff you dig out of the ground, stuff you build and stuff you provide. Or as in the drivers of the economy:

Agriculture.
Mining.
Manufacturing.
Services.

THAT'S the economy.

That's actually not wealth, but thanks for playing, Sparky.

 

[Nova78]

Kick about 50 million worthless asses off of welfare , review all the freeloaders on SSD for fraud ,no handouts for illegals, jail or fine anyone hiring a illegal ,get rid of Obamas worthless ass, Immediately stop overspending 4 billion a day on entitlements. The rest will take care of itself.

 

[corazonroto]

We had better learn to look at what we eat first, and see who is eating what, before we can figure out how to have plenty of economic prosperity pie, everyday for everyone.

The "pie" is being split up unfairly, by those who made it to be heavy on the financial sector side and light on the labor and manufacturing side. That "new" recipe was changed from the one that we all used to benefit the most from. Now, the minority that controls most of the pie, gets to eat first, and as much as they want.

All that is left are scraps for the rest of us...growing "our" economy, as it is now, only benefits those that make things worse for the rest of us (its "their" economy). If only we had some of that hope and change. The economy needs to change, before it can grow again. It might also help if we had a much less selfish, petty and childish government ruling us into the ground (all "sides" are guilty).

Today's new word is: "Financialization".
Financialization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Financialization is a term sometimes used in discussions of financial capitalism which developed over recent decades, in which financial leverage tended to override capital (equity) and financial markets tended to dominate over the traditional industrial economy and agricultural economics."

Financial Sector Costs Us More than Any Other Sector In Economy
Financial Sector Costs Us More than Any Other Sector In Economy

"From 1973 to 1985, the financial sector earned less than 16 percent of domestic corporate profits. In the 1990s, it oscillated between 21 percent and 30 percent, higher than it had ever been in the postwar period. This decade, it reached 41 percent. in the 1960s, finance and insurance accounted for only 4% of GDP, whereas in 2007 finance and insurance accounted for 8% of GDP.

The purpose of the financial services industry is basically to transfer money from savers to entrepreneurs. It primarily consists of using a computer to shift money from one bank account to another. This service requires virtually no physical labor and very few material resources."

Economy of the United States
Economy of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Financial position of the United States
Financial position of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

U.S. on Pace for Slowest Decade of Population Growth Since 1930s
U.S. on Pace for Slowest Decade of Population Growth Since 1930s - Bloomberg

"The U.S. population is on track for its slowest decade of growth since the Great Depression. "

What's Driving the Decline in U.S. Population Growth?
What's Driving the Decline in U.S. Population Growth? - Population Reference Bureau

"A drop in net immigration to the United States is a key factor in the country's declining population growth rate."

"The decline in immigration has been linked to job losses in construction, manufacturing, and other occupations that are often filled by recent immigrants, as well as stricter enforcement of immigration laws. Net immigration levels from Mexico are estimated to have reached zero in recent years as an equal number of people entering the United States from Mexico are now returning to their home country."

 

[Dugdale_Jukes]

How do we grow our economy once we cease to have any growth in the population? We're not there yet, but eventually we will stop growing. Economic growth, for the greatest part, is due to growth in population. What happens once that growth stops? How do we divvy up the pie then?

Probably the fastest way to grow the economy at this point is to make the first $50,000 of individual income tax free across the board and then cut military spending by about 10% a year for the next three or four years.

Cutting military spending that much that fast would end the hobble effect or leech effect defense has had, weakening the US economy for about fifty years. It has been masked by massive credit injections since the early 1980s (Reagan increased taxes on incomes under $50,000 as well to try to pay for his remf/chickenhawk atrocities against reason).

Spending of displaced MIC parasites (less than half of MIC income hits the economy in real time; 20% or so is turned back in taxes while another 25-33% of MIC incomes is banked) would quickly be replaced by new monies from no taxes on incomes below $50,000. Probably 75% of that money would hit the economy at the retail level within thirty days of being issued to workers. Further, the increase in retail spending would create millions of new jobs.

Probably of something this wise: 0%

Reason: war mongering Zionist neocons and corporatists own congress.

 

[Foxfyre]

Those who think divvying up an existing pie is the way to economic growth are missing the boat. When you divvy up the pie, the pie soon ceases to exist.

If you want everybody to have pie, the only logical way to do that is for more people to bake pies every day and for the government to encourage incentives to bake those pies. When the government presumes to tell you what kind of pie you have to bake, who gets the pieces, and how much you get to keep for yourself, a whole lot people will a) be able to bake a pie and b) will be inclined to bake one.

And the one lesson our government no longer seems to understand, if you get pie whether or not you bake one, there is a whole lot less incentive to bake.

 

[Samson]

How do we grow our economy once we cease to have any growth in the population? We're not there yet, but eventually we will stop growing. Economic growth, for the greatest part, is due to growth in population. What happens once that growth stops? How do we divvy up the pie then?

Global Pandemic seems to be the only reasonable solution.

 

[corazonroto]

Great information, and related to the question on everyone's mind these days...


Why Countries Succeed and Fail
Economically
by Ray Dalio
June, 2011
http://www.bwater.com/Uploads/FileM...-fail-economically--ray-dalio-bridgewater.pdf


"The Typical Cycle
We believe that countries typically evolve through five stages of the cycle: "

"1) In the first stage countries are poor and think that they are poor.

2) In the second stage countries are getting rich quickly but still think they are poor.

3) In the third stage countries are rich and think of themselves as rich.

4) In the fourth stage countries become poorer and still think of themselves as rich.

5) In the last stage of the cycle they typically go through deleveraging and relative decline, which they
are slow to accept."

Sound familiar?

 

[texasbadger]

Those who think divvying up an existing pie is the way to economic growth are missing the boat. When you divvy up the pie, the pie soon ceases to exist.

If you want everybody to have pie, the only logical way to do that is for more people to bake pies every day and for the government to encourage incentives to bake those pies. When the government presumes to tell you what kind of pie you have to bake, who gets the pieces, and how much you get to keep for yourself, a whole lot people will a) be able to bake a pie and b) will be inclined to bake one.

And the one lesson our government no longer seems to understand, if you get pie whether or not you bake one, there is a whole lot less incentive to bake.

Yeah, but how are you going to make the pie bigger? The post above this one started out with the right idea: cut taxes to zero on incomes $50,000 and below. However, the guy went on to advocate cutting defense spending. Others have talked about cutting a lot of other spending - welfare, etc.

You expand the economy by making more money available for consumption and investment. That is done by reducing the tax burden and injecting money with government spending. While there may be "values" reasons for cutting welfare, etc., from a purely economic point of view, it provides money in people's hands which is spent, in turn becoming income for somebody else - on and on - hell yeah, the multiplier. The same is true for money left in people's hands by reduced taxes.

But won't that make for deficits? Yes, but ....... Debt for America simply means increasing the money supply - the dollar is back by what? by government debt instruments. How do other countries pay their debts? Greece, Spain, France, etc.? with DOLLARS! The Almighty Dollar is the RESERVE CURRENCY for the world - meaning all international transactions must be made in dollars. How does the U.S. pay its debt? also with DOLLARS! - Basically go to the old printing press and print more. THAT is what prevents us from getting into a hole like Greece and Spain.

But won't that cause inflation? Some say yes, but it hasn't happened yet - and really should not as long as the dollar is the reserve currency.

The big danger we have from Obama and the leftists is that they seem bent on weakening America's position of world dominance. As long as we are militarily dominant, the dollar will be the world's reserve currency, and the world will basically be paying tribute to US as in U.S. I for one like it that way.

 

[Foxfyre]

Those who think divvying up an existing pie is the way to economic growth are missing the boat. When you divvy up the pie, the pie soon ceases to exist.

If you want everybody to have pie, the only logical way to do that is for more people to bake pies every day and for the government to encourage incentives to bake those pies. When the government presumes to tell you what kind of pie you have to bake, who gets the pieces, and how much you get to keep for yourself, a whole lot people will a) be able to bake a pie and b) will be inclined to bake one.

And the one lesson our government no longer seems to understand, if you get pie whether or not you bake one, there is a whole lot less incentive to bake.

Yeah, but how are you going to make the pie bigger? The post above this one started out with the right idea: cut taxes to zero on incomes $50,000 and below. However, the guy went on to advocate cutting defense spending. Others have talked about cutting a lot of other spending - welfare, etc.

You expand the economy by making more money available for consumption and investment. That is done by reducing the tax burden and injecting money with government spending. While there may be "values" reasons for cutting welfare, etc., from a purely economic point of view, it provides money in people's hands which is spent, in turn becoming income for somebody else - on and on - hell yeah, the multiplier. The same is true for money left in people's hands by reduced taxes.

But won't that make for deficits? Yes, but ....... Debt for America simply means increasing the money supply - the dollar is back by what? by government debt instruments. How do other countries pay their debts? Greece, Spain, France, etc.? with DOLLARS! The Almighty Dollar is the RESERVE CURRENCY for the world - meaning all international transactions must be made in dollars. How does the U.S. pay its debt? also with DOLLARS! - Basically go to the old printing press and print more. THAT is what prevents us from getting into a hole like Greece and Spain.

But won't that cause inflation? Some say yes, but it hasn't happened yet - and really should not as long as the dollar is the reserve currency.

The big danger we have from Obama and the leftists is that they seem bent on weakening America's position of world dominance. As long as we are militarily dominant, the dollar will be the world's reserve currency, and the world will basically be paying tribute to US as in U.S. I for one like it that way.

Every dollar spent by the government via legislation or by a government employee or welfare recipient is a dollar taken out of the economy by the government either immediately or in the future or via inflation and therefore any 'wealth' involved is mostly illusionary. While some government is necessary to fulfill the constitutional expectations of government, all government outside of those constitutional expectations is a drag on the economy and will inevitably retard economic growth either immediately or on down the road.

Referring back to this illustration that I have used before:

Economic times were bad in the small town when the traveler came into the motel office to rent a room. The motel owner told him the rooms were $100 but he couldn't leave the desk to show one to the traveler. The traveler put a $100 bill on the counter, took the key, and went to inspect the room himself.

The motel owner grabbed the hundred and rushed over to the private water company office to pay $100 on his overdue bill before his water was cut off. He dashed back to the motel.

The water company owner immediately took the hundred to pay his overdue bill to the plumber so he could continue to have services of the plumber.

The plumber immediately waved over a local prostitute and paid her the $100 he promised to pay for services.

The prostitute rushed to the motel to pay her overdue bill for short term room rentals.

The traveler returns from his inspection, does not wish to rent the room, takes his $100 and leaves.

Everybody feels better off than they were before. Yet not one dime has been added to the economy of the town and if there is no infusion of real money and real economic activity, the closure of all those businesses is a certainty.

 

[freedombecki]

How do we grow our economy once we cease to have any growth in the population? We're not there yet, but eventually we will stop growing. Economic growth, for the greatest part, is due to growth in population. What happens once that growth stops? How do we divvy up the pie then?

Recruit Republicans for the House of Representatives and the Senate! They'll grow the economy on a long-term basis. There will be a little caterwauling at first with the reduced number of federal employees, but Republicans will make it more profitable to work than loaf; they will balance the budget if you tell them to; they will stop runaway spending if you tell them that's their calling; and they will restore promises made to veterans if you tell them that's truly your expectation.

If you give them a 2/3rds majority in the Senate and a similar majority in the House and say "fix this mess," in 2014, they will.

Just do it!

 

[Dugdale_Jukes]

A preponderance of the evidence from the US Treasury Department seems to indicate that filthy god damned neocon scum borrow unsupportable amounts of money to fool morons into believing things are better, while sane presidents like pap Bush and others don't. This chart makes it crystal clear who the culprits are when it comes to fucking our children: nutball scum by ten miles. Many of them actually look like pedophiles. Did anyone notice that smirk on Junebug, or the way Reagan's hands seemed to linger on chlidren? (Maybe the Reagan children have another book to write?)

 

[The Rabbi]

A preponderance of the evidence from the US Treasury Department seems to indicate that filthy god damned neocon scum borrow unsupportable amounts of money to fool morons into believing things are better, while sane presidents like pap Bush and others don't. This chart makes it crystal clear who the culprits are when it comes to fucking our children: nutball scum by ten miles. Many of them actually look like pedophiles. Did anyone notice that smirk on Junebug, or the way Reagan's hands seemed to linger on chlidren? (Maybe the Reagan children have another book to write?)

The post shows you cannot read a graph and are taken in by carefully crafted images.
In the real world Obama has added $7T in debt--more than almost every president since.

 

[Flopper]

There are five factors that cause long term economic growth. Growth in population is just one of those factors.

Increased capital. e.g. investment in new factories or investment in infrastructure, such as roads and communication.

Increase in working population, e.g. through immigration, higher birth rate

Increase in Labour productivity, through better education and training or improved technology

Discovering new raw materials.

Technological improvements to improve the productivity of capital and labour e.g. Microcomputers and the internet have both contributed to increased economic growth.

There are a number of countries that are experiencing economic growth that have much lower population growth than the US. Population growth is only one factor that contributes to economic growth. In fact, most of the countries that are in top 20 for population growth are in pretty sad shape economically.


Causes of Economic Growth - Economics Help

 

[Dugdale_Jukes]

A preponderance of the evidence from the US Treasury Department seems to indicate that filthy god damned neocon scum borrow unsupportable amounts of money to fool morons into believing things are better, while sane presidents like pap Bush and others don't. This chart makes it crystal clear who the culprits are when it comes to fucking our children: nutball scum by ten miles. Many of them actually look like pedophiles. Did anyone notice that smirk on Junebug, or the way Reagan's hands seemed to linger on chlidren? (Maybe the Reagan children have another book to write?)

The post shows you cannot read a graph and are taken in by carefully crafted images.
In the real world Obama has added $7T in debt--more than almost every president since.

Actually what has been revealed here is that you do not understand proportion.

You're going to have to ramp up your game to play in my world, there, rabbit.

Next.

 

[freedombecki]

A preponderance of the evidence from the US Treasury Department seems to indicate that filthy god damned neocon scum borrow unsupportable amounts of money to fool morons into believing things are better, while sane presidents like pap Bush and others don't. This chart makes it crystal clear who the culprits are when it comes to fucking our children: nutball scum by ten miles. Many of them actually look like pedophiles. Did anyone notice that smirk on Junebug, or the way Reagan's hands seemed to linger on chlidren? (Maybe the Reagan children have another book to write?)

The post shows you cannot read a graph and are taken in by carefully crafted images.
In the real world Obama has added $7T in debt--more than almost every president since.

All that graft shows is DNC feel-good blame game stuff that credits presidents with selected congresses' spending. It's basically, a pr lie for the purpose of giving debit where credit is due and vice-versa. Currently the Obama administration is presiding over a $16,527,452,000,000.00 National debt. National Debt Clock Real Time

 

[Dugdale_Jukes]

Supply follows demand.

If supply-side idiocy grew economies, Reagan would be a legitimate hero instead of the credit card dunce of the 20th century.