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I guess part of that is how do we define poverty. Id like to see the ideas people come up with.
scale test food stamps
Men over 185 and woman over 145 NO FOOD STAMPS
That's a given. What is more difficult to understand is why some are convinced that this maxim applies to all disadvantaged people.There will always be those who choose to be without wealth and those unwilling to work cooperatively or competitively to acquire and create wealth.
Under your assumption, Norway, Denmark, Sweden, Finland, France, Germany would be poor states full of poor lazy people, while El Salvador, Somalia, or the Central African Republic would be states with less poverty because welfare systems don't exist there. Yeah, it doesn't make any sense and it isn't the case.
and what's their tax rate?
FAIL....and I don't mean that in a bad way...
How is that a fail? Because they have high taxes? So what? You people are the ones who endlessly say that "Oh my god, the rich are going to run away with high taxes." Don't see any rich running away from friggin' Norway because they have to pay a lot of taxes.
There's one thing you left out. Their citizens are taught from an early age to have good work ethics(as I alluded to in an earlier post) to support themselves and their welfare State.
Well, then maybe the problem isn't the welfare state, but that you should teach children from an early age to have a good work ethic. Don't forget social solidarity, that's a big one in the Nordic countries... What I do FAIL to see is what that has anything to do with your claim that welfare = lazy people.
Here in America where in excess of 20 trillion dollars has been thrown at the poverty problem since the 1940's.....yet it still exists and in fact has increased!!!! Now...explain that.
20 trillion dollars? Really? Says who? And poverty increased since the 40s? Says who?
Out of the developed countries, isn't the US supposed to be the one with the least redistribution, taxes, social assistance and all those bad socialist things that lead to 'Evil'? Isn't that the big difference between the US and Europe? Isn't this the problem with Obama, that he's a radical who's changing the US to be a Socialist Europe state? Hmmm...
That's right...anyone who doesn't have a viable back up plan if they lose their job or are laid off is a fucking idiot.That's a given. What is more difficult to understand is why some are convinced that this maxim applies to all disadvantaged people.There will always be those who choose to be without wealth and those unwilling to work cooperatively or competitively to acquire and create wealth.
Extend unemployment benefits? Nope! Get a job! That's substantially easier said than done. Most of the unemployed want to work, but the opportunity to work is no longer available. Or, more usu sally, the jobs that are available do not provide enough hours or wages or benefits to support their families.
Food stamps? Nope! Get a job! Public housing or Section Eight rent subsidies? Nope! Get a job!
Seems "Nope! Get a job!" is a standard pat answer from those who have either never experienced the heartbreak of a factory leaving America and, subsequently all the ancillary jobs associated with that factory or, are just too short sighted to understand that heartbreak.
I guess part of that is how do we define poverty. Id like to see the ideas people come up with.
The root cause of entrenched poverty is a lack on money in the first place.
Now before you start telling me to get serious consider the fact that:
IT TAKES MONEY TO MAKE MONEY in a society based on the system we call CAPITALISM.
The unemployed are not "fucking idiots". They have lost their jobs due to no fault of their own. How short sighted of you to think they are idiots.That's right...anyone who doesn't have a viable back up plan if they lose their job or are laid off is a fucking idiot.That's a given. What is more difficult to understand is why some are convinced that this maxim applies to all disadvantaged people.There will always be those who choose to be without wealth and those unwilling to work cooperatively or competitively to acquire and create wealth.
Extend unemployment benefits? Nope! Get a job! That's substantially easier said than done. Most of the unemployed want to work, but the opportunity to work is no longer available. Or, more usu sally, the jobs that are available do not provide enough hours or wages or benefits to support their families.
Food stamps? Nope! Get a job! Public housing or Section Eight rent subsidies? Nope! Get a job!
Seems "Nope! Get a job!" is a standard pat answer from those who have either never experienced the heartbreak of a factory leaving America and, subsequently all the ancillary jobs associated with that factory or, are just too short sighted to understand that heartbreak.
There is no such thing as lifetime employment...like there is in Europe.
After socialist reforms were put into place and capitalism was muzzled following the industrial revolution, allowing the proletariat to benefit from their increased production through minimum wages that prevented the bourgeoisie simply keeping the added profit.The history of the building of a middle class in American can go along way to explaining how Americans can build wealth adn climb out of poverty.
Tell me if you can when this country developed a sizeable middle class?
How about free public college?
The unemployed are not "fucking idiots". They have lost their jobs due to no fault of their own. How short sighted of you to think they are idiots.That's right...anyone who doesn't have a viable back up plan if they lose their job or are laid off is a fucking idiot.That's a given. What is more difficult to understand is why some are convinced that this maxim applies to all disadvantaged people.
Extend unemployment benefits? Nope! Get a job! That's substantially easier said than done. Most of the unemployed want to work, but the opportunity to work is no longer available. Or, more usu sally, the jobs that are available do not provide enough hours or wages or benefits to support their families.
Food stamps? Nope! Get a job! Public housing or Section Eight rent subsidies? Nope! Get a job!
Seems "Nope! Get a job!" is a standard pat answer from those who have either never experienced the heartbreak of a factory leaving America and, subsequently all the ancillary jobs associated with that factory or, are just too short sighted to understand that heartbreak.
There is no such thing as lifetime employment...like there is in Europe.
I live in the Rust Belt. There are many one factory towns lining the banks of the Ohio River. When a steel mill packs up its operations and moves to Singapore, and all the jobs are lost, and the rest of the town's economy goes in the tank, what makes all the citizens who lost their opportunities "fucking idiots'?
I'm sure you will say, they should just move to where the jobs are. Good answer! Now, will you tell me who will come and buy their houses so they can have the means to live until the new jobs in the new locations come to be?
"Fucking idiots"! Typical condescending claptrap from Conservatives without a clue!
How about free public college?
Socialist! Heretic!
If your parents didn't make enough money for you to go to college TOUGH SHIT. You will pay for their mistakes! Only the offspring of responsible people can have the privilege of an education!
Don't like it? MOVE TO EUROPE!
<_>
That's a given. What is more difficult to understand is why some are convinced that this maxim applies to all disadvantaged people.There will always be those who choose to be without wealth and those unwilling to work cooperatively or competitively to acquire and create wealth.
Extend unemployment benefits? Nope! Get a job! That's substantially easier said than done. Most of the unemployed want to work, but the opportunity to work is no longer available.
Let's delve into the real world for just a second. You work in a steel mill. Just as two or three generations before you have. It's absolutely fair to assume that the mill will not close. But, as your job has a degree of risk, it's assumed that you have a backup plan should you get hurt on the job.The unemployed are not "fucking idiots". They have lost their jobs due to no fault of their own. How short sighted of you to think they are idiots.That's right...anyone who doesn't have a viable back up plan if they lose their job or are laid off is a fucking idiot.
There is no such thing as lifetime employment...like there is in Europe.
I live in the Rust Belt. There are many one factory towns lining the banks of the Ohio River. When a steel mill packs up its operations and moves to Singapore, and all the jobs are lost, and the rest of the town's economy goes in the tank, what makes all the citizens who lost their opportunities "fucking idiots'?
I'm sure you will say, they should just move to where the jobs are. Good answer! Now, will you tell me who will come and buy their houses so they can have the means to live until the new jobs in the new locations come to be?
"Fucking idiots"! Typical condescending claptrap from Conservatives without a clue!
Reread post...comprehend correctly...comment appropriately. Like I said idiot who cannot understand basic english....if you don't have a back up plan for when things go wrong YOU'RE A FUCKING IDIOT!!!!!! Got that?
How about free public college?
Socialist! Heretic!
If your parents didn't make enough money for you to go to college TOUGH SHIT. You will pay for their mistakes! Only the offspring of responsible people can have the privilege of an education!
Don't like it? MOVE TO EUROPE!
<_>
What about all those student loans...like the ones you got for your liberal arts degree that's fucking worthless.
Loans?How about free public college?
Socialist! Heretic!
If your parents didn't make enough money for you to go to college TOUGH SHIT. You will pay for their mistakes! Only the offspring of responsible people can have the privilege of an education!
Don't like it? MOVE TO EUROPE!
<_>
What about all those student loans...like the ones you got for your liberal arts degree that's fucking worthless.
People want to work. They take extra training and classes to help further their careers.That's a given. What is more difficult to understand is why some are convinced that this maxim applies to all disadvantaged people.There will always be those who choose to be without wealth and those unwilling to work cooperatively or competitively to acquire and create wealth.
Extend unemployment benefits? Nope! Get a job! That's substantially easier said than done. Most of the unemployed want to work, but the opportunity to work is no longer available.
Of course, we must simultaneously consider, along with other fiscal policies, whether the increased taxation necessitated by further extension of such programs has a marked effect upon the ability of individuals to reintroduce their funds into the market through discretionary spending and/or of businesses to reinvest in their business through either further expansion and purchase of materials wholesale or through the growth of their staff (that is, through hiring new employees).
I've not seen the numbers.
As a social democrat, I support the existence of a social safety net for our citizens. However, we must balance such concerns with what will best help the economy grow in the long run so those people can once again find gainful employment and become self-supporting.
In California, I saw waht happens when people do nothing to help people become gainfully employed and make them too comfortable in their poverty. With 2 hot meals a day and a bag lunch, showers every day, free clothes, a shelter next door, bus passes, no drug tests, and no requirement to prove you were actively seeking employment, people literally spent years in and around the shelter and the center next to it. It did nothing to alleviate the problem and the resulting environment was toxic to those who with intentions of improving their lot.
Back in my home State, I saw things done right. Random drug tests, regular meetings with a case worker, and a strict policy that if you were late a single time during the first stage of the program, you were out. Strict documentation of the businesses you'd contacted and whom you spoken with, as well as other policies, helped people find work while weeding out those who weren't serious about improving their condition. So long as you did as you were supposed to, they'd alleviate you emergency needs for food and clothing and help place you in first a shelter and then a housing program.
It's the difference between handouts and a hand up.
