How do we curtail gun violence?

[Politico]

No worries. Your own data shows that.

 

[2aguy]

Sorry, I'm not letting people get away with just counting and recounting those murdered by bad guys as the only side to the gun debate...

Murders by guns in the U.S. Are about 11,000 per year, lives saved by gun per year, 100,000, and that number is too low but it is the number actually acknowledged by anti gun groups, in particular anti gun researcher hemmenway.

why is that number reported too low...because other studies,put the number upwards of 300,000lives saved per year while on the real far side up,to 2.5 million lives saved,per year. even these numbers are not accurate because if you take the gun grabber number of 100,000 lives saved per year, that doesn't count all defensive gun uses/lives saved because in the majority of events, no shots are fired and no bodies are put on the ground...meaning there is nothing to count for statistical purposes.

also, the 100,000 lives saved doesn't count the lives saved,because in these defensive gun uses a lot of the criminals are captured or killed by the intended victim which means that future, uncounted victims, are also saved from attack...

How can we know this...from stories,like the one where the female college student who was raped 50 feet from the campus police station because even though she had a cocealed carry license, she had to leave her gun off campus the night she was brutally raped because the school was a legally mandated "gun free" zone...her attacker then went on to brutally rape 3 more victims and kill the third...

and by the way...this is the desired outcome that the anti gun people want, it is better that these women be brutally raped and beaten or murderd, than that they have,a gun on their person to stop it from happening...how do I know this...because,if put to the question...would you allow these women to carry a gun knowing what was about to happen to them...would you? the anti-gun people will say,no...it is better that they not have access to that gun that will prevent that attack...so by extension...the preferred outcome for the anti-gun people is that these women are brutally raped,and the one is murdered...because innocent people can't be allowed to have guns....thereby allowing them to be brutally beaten, brutally raped and brutally murdered...


so no more one way street for the gun grabbers...criminals may murder 11,000 people each year...a lot of those other criminals in gang violence...but over 100,000 peoples lives are saved from violent beatings, violent rape, and violent murder because good,people can stop the attacks,because they are,carrying guns on their hips...

what causes gun violence,in democrat controlled cities...generations of children raising children on government welfare, with no adult role models,other than gang members and other criminals, which produces stone cold killers without remorse or compassion or human empathy...all the while the democrats in control of those cities....check out he top most violent cities in the U.S., they are in general controlled by democrat mayors...undermine the police by not employing enough or tying their hands as they try to deal with the criminal drug gangs the government policies have created...

Solution:

As Anethma points out...long prison sentences for criminals/felons who use guns to commit crimes or who are caught carrying guns on their person during any routine searches, and the directive to district attorneys to actually prosecute,these gun crimes and judges directed to give long sentences for gun crimes.

We see this in Chicago...in one shooting at a park where three gang members shot at a crowd of people...they all had prior convictions for violent crimes and at least one had a previous gun arrest but was out on parole at the time of the shooting, for a previous gun crime conviction in which he received 3 years only for the gun crime and was out in 18 months...in another shooting...the killer had another gun arrest..but was given 3 months in a "boot camp" instead of prison for the gun crime


so don't tell me the problem is guns...the problem is bad law enforcement policy decisions that allow violent criminals to keep using guns to commit crimes over and over again in the same small areas of democrat controlled cities...which are then used as a reason to take guns away from law abiding citizens who use them to save over 100,000 lives a year...

and another thing...the mentally ill...they are the smallest of the problem when it comes,to gun violence...the real problem is inner city killing fields created,by democrat welfare and police,policies....but we know why the anti- gun crowd focuses so much on the mentally ill getting guns..because it gives them a powerful tool for getting guns away from those people least likely to use guns for murder...law abiding citizens...because they will use any and all mental health laws to target law abiding citizens. We have seen the precursor to this in Illinois with the medical pot cards used to deny gun permits...even as they don't deny those same people drivers licenses...because more medical pot card holders are more likely to be driving under the influence than they will to use guns to commit murder...but they still use it to deny concealed carry permits but not drivers licenses, don't they...and the use of PTSD to deny military vets the ability to get carry permits....even though these same soldiers would be allowed to carry weapons in the line of duty...but they won't be allowed to carry weapons when they leave the military for their personal protection...

so keeping guns out of the hands of the Colorado theater shooter and the Newton shooter are what we want...two killers who were known to have serious, dangerous mental problems who were still able to get guns, one went through legal background checks that the anti gunners insist will stop crime, while the other simply murdered a legal gun owner to get their guns...but we know that what the anti-gun people,want is another way to keep law abiding people from having and carrying guns...because the anti-gun people will use that power to keep anyone who even talks to a therapist from getting a gun...even if the only reason they talk to a therapist is because they are felling a little down and could use someone to talk to...and then they will have a permanent block on their ability to own or carry a gun to protect themselves from violent criminals...we know the anti-gun strategy and goals and we do not trust them...

 

[M14 Shooter]

We see this in Chicago...in one shooting at a park where three gang members shot at a crowd of people...they all had prior convictions for violent crimes and at least one had a previous gun arrest but was out on parole at the time of the shooting, for a previous gun crime conviction in which he received 3 years only for the gun crime and was out in 18 months...in another shooting...the killer had another gun arrest..but was given 3 months in a "boot camp" instead of prison for the gun crime

And some people STILL think we can enact laws that will prevent people from breaking the law.

 

[Missourian]

Right here is your problem:

I was watching some Youtube videos and this story popped up in the sidebar.

Press-Register files show that Williams pleaded guilty last November to the 2009 shooting of Griggs and his then 19-month-old daughter.

The pair was shot in the early afternoon as they were getting out of a Cadillac that had broken down at St. Stephens Road and Clark Avenue, according to the files. The gunfire came from a car with tinted windows, police told the Press-Register at the time.


Griggs was treated and released from Mobile Infirmary Medical Center the day of the shooting, but Sekhiya was critically injured and was treated at the University of South Alabama Children's & Women's Hospital, according to the files.


Williams was sentenced to 15 months, with an additional 13 years nine months suspended, in connection with the shooting. He was released on Jan. 6, according to jail records.


http://blog.al.com/live/2011/04/person_of_interest_named_in_mo.html

So Williams, a criminal with a long list of priors, shoots Griggs, another criminal with a long list of prior convictions, and Griggs' 19 month old daughter in 2009 with an illegal firearm.

He is OUT OF PRISON six days into 2012.

So Griggs kills Williams in April 2012, and is convicted and sentenced by the jury to life in prison without the possibility of parole. Mind you, he has already previous been convicted as a drug dealer and sentenced to 17 years.

A jury last month convicted Travis Dewayne Griggs, 31, of murder in the death of Deandre Williams on April 4 of last year. With an extensive criminal record, including five felony convictions, Griggs could have been sentenced to life without parole.

But Mobile County Circuit Judge Rick Stout said the case was not egregious enough to warrant that penalty. He said he wanted more time to consider a prosecution request that the life sentence run on top of a 17-year prison term Griggs is serving for an unrelated cocaine offense. If the sentences run at the same time, he would first be eligible for parole in 15 years.

Prichard man gets life for revenge killing, but judge spares him life without parole | AL.com

Want to reduce gun crime? Fix this.

 

[MDiver]

Personally, I'm weary of this subject. It's been posted over, and over, and over, and over, and over.
Approximately 60 million private citizens own an approximate 260 million firearms (I own several myself). We are responsible individuals who either use them as a sport at the range, are hunters, licensed to carry a firearm for safety, or a combination of any of the above. Many of the shootings are gang related and who obtained firearms illegally; others are suicides. Doctors need to be assured through legislation that they can report dangerous or suicidal individuals, without fear of litigation.
Some individuals use firearms for robberies, with many of their firearms being again, obtained illegally. The bottom line is that the almost entire 60 million firearms owners are never going to be a threat to you and those that legally carry concealed weapons, are also not a threat, but rather, a lifeline should a crime occur.

 

[2aguy]

Want to reduce gun crime? Fix this.

That is the problem...isn't it? sadly, they don't really care about the crime...they just want the guns, otherwise their effort would actually be aimed at repeat felons who commit gun crimes and serve short sentences...but this isn't the fight they fight. they fight hardest to take guns out of the hands of people who don't break the law, and use all their clout and power to this end. if they actually went after the criminals who used the guns they would save lives..but again, saving lives isn't their concern...banning guns is...

 

[Abishai100]

Modern Internet enables mass talk about this issue which is a great start. This is a great improvement from yesteryear's isolated dining room and den and Senate office conversations in Texas and Michigan.

Talk gets the attention of politicians and voters which is good.

So here's more chatter with perhaps a devilish twist:

How about curtailing gun violence (the overall problematic mindset) or at least addressing the issue with talk about the art world?

How does art encourage violence or motivate human peace?

America has given birth to many great pop culture artists such as Andy Warhol who have celebrated the 'coloring' of capitalism. This is not a small achievement. After all, it's the patriotic small-town gun store owner who could be tempting tomorrow's high school and post office shooting spree maniacs.

The artistic film industry has offered us reflection with movies such as "American Gun" (2005).

Continuing this art world investment suggests (albeit implicitly) that Toys R' Us, the toy store giant representative of America's cultural successes with toy marketing, stands in a great position to benefit from the issue of gun violence culture.

Toys R' Us offers consumers wonderful and colorful water guns. A water gun is a fake gun, usually made of plastic, that shoots water instead of plastic pellets, rubber darts, or anything else.

Marketing (and advertising) the iconic water gun could facilitate more talk about the intriguing relationship between fun and capitalism. It could also give a more kid-friendly face to capitalism which can only add something new to gun violence dialogue.

After all, aren't toys representative of hands-on art?

A water gun may not save the inner-city, but it could certainly give the American store owner a better image.

 

[Spoonman]

There has been a lot of talk about mass shooting incidents.
What I see in that talk are many people stricken by shock and grief and who have the means to make their voice heard. Very little is said about homicides among our poor.

Gun violence in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Deadly mass shootings have resulted in considerable coverage by the media. These shootings have represented 1% of all deaths by gun between 1980 and 2008.​

The United States has a murder rate on par with Thailand.
List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Of those murders, of the ones for which the FBI received weapons data, 67.5% involve the use of firearms in 2010.
FBI ? Expanded Homicide Data
The vast majority of homicides with a firearm were committed using a handgun, not an assault weapon. Most of these guns used in these homicides are obtained on the black market. The black market is fueled by the unregulated secondary market.

What are your thoughts on gun violence in America?
What are the proposals to curtail this secondary market and make a dent in the 99% of gun violence in our country?

the first thing we have to do is take the focus off guns, which are not the issue and put the focus on the multiple issues which lead to the majority of our violence.

 

[jc456]

With a comprehensive mental health program in conjunction with a fundamental change in American society and culture where violence is no longer perceived as a legitimate means of conflict resolution.

Unfortunately it’s easier to identify the appropriate solutions than to implement them.

Not even beginning to address the problem. Mental health is just the cure d'jour. This is not a mental health issue. Cultural certainly. This country was built by people who used guns to live and that has been passed down. Our ancestors were pioneers, not serfs. But the primary problem is economical. Too many people with too few options. Until you solve that, you are going nowhere.

You are one of the few people who has realized this. If we're going to get serious about stopping mass violence, we must regulate the murder industry much more tightly. The Wrongpublican goal of a completely deregulated economy just isn't working, and hasn't worked, and will never work. We need more federal laws regulating the murder industry if we are to rein in these killer-barons and stop them from running amok.

Wow is this a bunch of cr_ap!!!!!!

 

[jc456]

What a bunch of Huey, talk about a useless thread!!!

 

[BillyP]

Stop selling bullets, there's no constitutional guarantee for bullets, only arms.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Stop selling bullets, there's no constitutional guarantee for bullets, only arms.

Yeah...
And there's no constitutional guarantee for words, only speech.

 

[turtledude]

Stop selling bullets, there's no constitutional guarantee for bullets, only arms.

that is actually incorrect. arms includes arrows for bows, bolts for crossbows, pellets for slings and cartridges for firearms. Major fail on your part

 

[Uncensored2008]

No worries. Your own data shows that.

It does?

In what way?

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

There has been a lot of talk about mass shooting incidents.
What I see in that talk are many people stricken by shock and grief and who have the means to make their voice heard. Very little is said about homicides among our poor.

Gun violence in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Deadly mass shootings have resulted in considerable coverage by the media. These shootings have represented 1% of all deaths by gun between 1980 and 2008.​

The United States has a murder rate on par with Thailand.
List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Of those murders, of the ones for which the FBI received weapons data, 67.5% involve the use of firearms in 2010.
FBI ? Expanded Homicide Data
The vast majority of homicides with a firearm were committed using a handgun, not an assault weapon. Most of these guns used in these homicides are obtained on the black market. The black market is fueled by the unregulated secondary market.

What are your thoughts on gun violence in America?
What are the proposals to curtail this secondary market and make a dent in the 99% of gun violence in our country?

It's actually rather simple.

Bring corporal punishment back to the public school.

That is the beginning step to bringing discipline back to children, and children who are disciplined don't generally run out and shoot people.

It isn't the gun, it's discipline.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

according to the ABA, the vast majority of people in the US charged with murder are represented either by public defenders or court-appointed private counsel. In other words, it is directly linked to poverty.

The republicans refuse to support most poverty initiatives and the democrats refuse to make any substantive changes to existing failed programs because they keep the recipients on the hook of voting for them. Until the GOP comes up with realistic alternatives to existing programs, or poor people stop voting for the democrats, nothing will change.

The best choice is to go after all guns because the political pressures on both sides against it might cause enough ice to break for some water to get through. I wouldn't hold my breathe, but until we completely rethink and retool these programs so that there are fewer gaps and fewer people being allowed to live their entire lives cradle to grave without ever having to support themselves, there is nothing that can be done to stop the violence or the murdering.

It's about poverty? I could equally say it's about blacks. Blacks are MUCH more likely to commit murder than any other race.

But that is a factor, again, of DISCIPLINE.

 

[sameech]

according to the ABA, the vast majority of people in the US charged with murder are represented either by public defenders or court-appointed private counsel. In other words, it is directly linked to poverty.

The republicans refuse to support most poverty initiatives and the democrats refuse to make any substantive changes to existing failed programs because they keep the recipients on the hook of voting for them. Until the GOP comes up with realistic alternatives to existing programs, or poor people stop voting for the democrats, nothing will change.

The best choice is to go after all guns because the political pressures on both sides against it might cause enough ice to break for some water to get through. I wouldn't hold my breathe, but until we completely rethink and retool these programs so that there are fewer gaps and fewer people being allowed to live their entire lives cradle to grave without ever having to support themselves, there is nothing that can be done to stop the violence or the murdering.

It's about poverty? I could equally say it's about blacks. Blacks are MUCH more likely to commit murder than any other race.

But that is a factor, again, of DISCIPLINE.

It's about poverty? I could equally say it's about blacks. Blacks are MUCH more likely to commit murder than any other race.

But that is a factor, again, of DISCIPLINE.

That is because blacks are still mostly poor. People with no money don't have discipline. The factor, again, is poverty.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

according to the ABA, the vast majority of people in the US charged with murder are represented either by public defenders or court-appointed private counsel. In other words, it is directly linked to poverty.

The republicans refuse to support most poverty initiatives and the democrats refuse to make any substantive changes to existing failed programs because they keep the recipients on the hook of voting for them. Until the GOP comes up with realistic alternatives to existing programs, or poor people stop voting for the democrats, nothing will change.

The best choice is to go after all guns because the political pressures on both sides against it might cause enough ice to break for some water to get through. I wouldn't hold my breathe, but until we completely rethink and retool these programs so that there are fewer gaps and fewer people being allowed to live their entire lives cradle to grave without ever having to support themselves, there is nothing that can be done to stop the violence or the murdering.

It's about poverty? I could equally say it's about blacks. Blacks are MUCH more likely to commit murder than any other race.

But that is a factor, again, of DISCIPLINE.

It's about poverty? I could equally say it's about blacks. Blacks are MUCH more likely to commit murder than any other race.

But that is a factor, again, of DISCIPLINE.

That is because blacks are still mostly poor. People with no money don't have discipline. The factor, again, is poverty.

Bullcrap, There are TONS of poor folk out there, of all all colors who never commit a crime in their lives, let alone murder. In fact if one looks at the poverty statistics versus the crime statistics in this country one would have to absolutely admit that only 1 out of every 100 poor people is likely to commit a crime. Be they black or white.

Likewise, I can link to story after story of very wealthy people who have no discipline and so commit crimes. You know this is true.

It doesn't take money to discipline your children. Actually I could further the argument and say that poverty is often times a direct result of a lack of discipline. Don't have the discipline to not buy those 22" rims so you can go to college instead? Welcome to being poor. Don't have the discipline to not become a parent when you can't afford it? Welcome to poverty, etc etc.

See, that's why our country is falling apart, lack of logical deductive reasoning skills. Lack of discipline is absolutely, positively the root of what is wrong with this country.

 

[Little-Acorn]

People with no money don't have discipline. The factor, again, is poverty.

That's why the murder rate and other crimes rates soared in the U.S. during the Great Depression of the 1930s and 1940, right?

Of course, crime rates didn't soar, actually. They remained the same as they had been before the Depression. The "lack of discipline" your theory predicts, never happened even when far more people and families were impoverished. This misstatement keeps getting debunked, but still keeps coming back as though it had some basis in fact.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

People with no money don't have discipline. The factor, again, is poverty.

That's why the murder rate and other crimes rates soared in the U.S. during the Great Depression of the 1930s and 1940, right?

Of course, crime rates didn't soar, actually. They remained the same as they had been before the Depression. The "lack of discipline" your theory predicts, never happened even when far more people and families were impoverished. This misstatement keeps getting debunked, but still keeps coming back as though it had some basis in fact.

As if poor people can't discipline their kids? I mean my God I'm honestly surprised some liberal do gooder moron hasn't suggested we pay these poor parents if their kids don't get in trouble.