How do teenagers get shot in gun free Britain?

[2aguy]

1. once again BULLSHIT--it's not gun free--it's gun controlled
2. they've many times LESS shootings
I guess LESS shootings is bad..........?????!!!!!!!!!!??????????

Here....the truth......

Decivilization in the 1960s

And figure two, Homicide rates in US and England 1900-2000, shows that in the 1960s the homicide rate in America went through the roof.
------

After a three-decade free fall that spanned the Great Depression, World War II, and the Cold War, Americans multiplied their homicide rate by more than two and a half, from a low of 4.0 in 1957 to a high of 10.2 in 1980 (U.S. Bureau of Statistics; Fox and Zawitz: 2007). The upsurge included every other category of major crime as well, including rape, assault, robbery, and theft, and lasted (with ups and downs) for three decades. The cities got particularly dangerous, especially New York, which became a symbol of the new criminality. Though the surge in violence affected all the races and both genders, it was most dramatic among black men, whose annual homicide rate had shot up by the mid-1980s to 72 per 100,000.
----

The rebounding of violence in the 1960s defied every expectation. The decade was a time of unprecedented economic growth, nearly full employment, levels of economic equality for which people today are nostalgic, historic racial progress, and the blossoming of government social programs, not to mention medical advances that made victims more likely to survive being shot or knifed. Social theorists in 1962 would have happily bet that these fortunate conditions would lead to a continuing era of low crime. And they would have lost their shirts.
----

Together with self-control and societal connectedness, a third ideal came under attack: marriage and family life, which had done so much to domesticate male violence in the preceding decades.

The idea that a man and a woman should devote their energies to a monogamous relationship in which they raise their children in a safe environment became a target of howling ridicule. That life was now the soulless, conformist, consumerist, materialist, ticky-tacky, plastic, white-bread, Ozzie and Harriet suburban wasteland.

Britain has now reached the point where their families have collapsed.........and their rising levels of young male of violence and murder show this...

Also in Britain....law enforcement on the run....as happened in the U.S. in the 1960s....

As the rationalizations for criminality caught the attention of judges and legislators, they became increasingly reluctant to put miscreants behind bars. Though the civil liberties reform of the era did not lead to nearly as many vicious criminals ‘going free on a technicality’ as the Dirty Harry movies would suggest, law enforcement was indeed retreating as the crime rate was advancing. In the United States from 1962 to 1979, the likelihood that a crime would lead to an arrest dropped from 0.32 to 0.18, the likelihood that an arrest would lead to imprisonment dropped from 0.32 to 0.14, and the likelihood that a crime would lead to imprisonment fell from 0.10 to 0.02, a factor of five.[10]

and still = FOUR TIMES less murder rate

Which has nothing to do with their gun control laws......you moron. They had a low gun murder rate before they banned guns.....they had a 10 year spike after they banned guns, now their gun murder rate returned to the same level as before they banned guns....which, using "Science" shows that gun control had no effect on their gun murder rate....you doofus.

Meanwhile, as more Americans own and carry guns....our gun murder rate went down 49%.....our gun crime rate went down 75%....using "science" that would mean that law abiding people with guns do not increase the gun murder rate or the gun crime rate.....showing your theory is crap. It has no evidence to support it, and that you cling to it means you are using emotion, not reason, to cling to your agenda.

 

[harmonica]

1. once again BULLSHIT--it's not gun free--it's gun controlled
2. they've many times LESS shootings
I guess LESS shootings is bad..........?????!!!!!!!!!!??????????

Here....the truth......

Decivilization in the 1960s

And figure two, Homicide rates in US and England 1900-2000, shows that in the 1960s the homicide rate in America went through the roof.
------

After a three-decade free fall that spanned the Great Depression, World War II, and the Cold War, Americans multiplied their homicide rate by more than two and a half, from a low of 4.0 in 1957 to a high of 10.2 in 1980 (U.S. Bureau of Statistics; Fox and Zawitz: 2007). The upsurge included every other category of major crime as well, including rape, assault, robbery, and theft, and lasted (with ups and downs) for three decades. The cities got particularly dangerous, especially New York, which became a symbol of the new criminality. Though the surge in violence affected all the races and both genders, it was most dramatic among black men, whose annual homicide rate had shot up by the mid-1980s to 72 per 100,000.
----

The rebounding of violence in the 1960s defied every expectation. The decade was a time of unprecedented economic growth, nearly full employment, levels of economic equality for which people today are nostalgic, historic racial progress, and the blossoming of government social programs, not to mention medical advances that made victims more likely to survive being shot or knifed. Social theorists in 1962 would have happily bet that these fortunate conditions would lead to a continuing era of low crime. And they would have lost their shirts.
----

Together with self-control and societal connectedness, a third ideal came under attack: marriage and family life, which had done so much to domesticate male violence in the preceding decades.

The idea that a man and a woman should devote their energies to a monogamous relationship in which they raise their children in a safe environment became a target of howling ridicule. That life was now the soulless, conformist, consumerist, materialist, ticky-tacky, plastic, white-bread, Ozzie and Harriet suburban wasteland.

Britain has now reached the point where their families have collapsed.........and their rising levels of young male of violence and murder show this...

Also in Britain....law enforcement on the run....as happened in the U.S. in the 1960s....

As the rationalizations for criminality caught the attention of judges and legislators, they became increasingly reluctant to put miscreants behind bars. Though the civil liberties reform of the era did not lead to nearly as many vicious criminals ‘going free on a technicality’ as the Dirty Harry movies would suggest, law enforcement was indeed retreating as the crime rate was advancing. In the United States from 1962 to 1979, the likelihood that a crime would lead to an arrest dropped from 0.32 to 0.18, the likelihood that an arrest would lead to imprisonment dropped from 0.32 to 0.14, and the likelihood that a crime would lead to imprisonment fell from 0.10 to 0.02, a factor of five.[10]

and still = FOUR TIMES less murder rate

Which has nothing to do with their gun control laws......you moron. They had a low gun murder rate before they banned guns.....they had a 10 year spike after they banned guns, now their gun murder rate returned to the same level as before they banned guns....which, using "Science" shows that gun control had no effect on their gun murder rate....you doofus.

Meanwhile, as more Americans own and carry guns....our gun murder rate went down 49%.....our gun crime rate went down 75%....using "science" that would mean that law abiding people with guns do not increase the gun murder rate or the gun crime rate.....showing your theory is crap. It has no evidence to support it, and that you cling to it means you are using emotion, not reason, to cling to your agenda.

you people are like babies with teething rings--''don't take my guns!!!! waaaaaa
gun control--waaaaaaa
Germany, France, England, Japan, NZealand, etc etc --all lower murder rates
LA and NY and CHi lower murder rates than very pro-gun ST Louis
etc

 

[miketx]

1. once again BULLSHIT--it's not gun free--it's gun controlled
2. they've many times LESS shootings
I guess LESS shootings is bad..........?????!!!!!!!!!!??????????

Come take mine.

 

[Toronado3800]

Okay, they allow the rich to have a very few, select types of hunting shot gun......but even with that limited selection, how do teenagers keep getting guns to shoot other teenagers....in gun free Britain? When they banned and confiscated guns, did they forget to take guns away from teenagers? Teenagers who can't legally own any guns...at all, no matter what type they are? And what keeps these teenagers with guns in Britain from walking into a school, a mall, a theater, a church and shooting people?

Two teenagers charged with south London murder of 18-year-old

Two teenagers have been charged with the murder of an 18-year-old who was stabbed to death in London during a weekend which saw three men killed in separate attacks in less than 24 hours.

In a second incident in a different part of London just minutes later, a 19-year-old man was fatally shot in Plumstead.

-----

On Saturday afternoon a man in his 30s was stabbed to death in Tower Hamlets, east London, and three men were also stabbed in a separate attack in Clapham, south-west London.

Why are you once again bringing up lower gun crime rates in countries with more gun control?

 

[2aguy]

1. once again BULLSHIT--it's not gun free--it's gun controlled
2. they've many times LESS shootings
I guess LESS shootings is bad..........?????!!!!!!!!!!??????????

Here....the truth......

Decivilization in the 1960s

And figure two, Homicide rates in US and England 1900-2000, shows that in the 1960s the homicide rate in America went through the roof.
------

After a three-decade free fall that spanned the Great Depression, World War II, and the Cold War, Americans multiplied their homicide rate by more than two and a half, from a low of 4.0 in 1957 to a high of 10.2 in 1980 (U.S. Bureau of Statistics; Fox and Zawitz: 2007). The upsurge included every other category of major crime as well, including rape, assault, robbery, and theft, and lasted (with ups and downs) for three decades. The cities got particularly dangerous, especially New York, which became a symbol of the new criminality. Though the surge in violence affected all the races and both genders, it was most dramatic among black men, whose annual homicide rate had shot up by the mid-1980s to 72 per 100,000.
----

The rebounding of violence in the 1960s defied every expectation. The decade was a time of unprecedented economic growth, nearly full employment, levels of economic equality for which people today are nostalgic, historic racial progress, and the blossoming of government social programs, not to mention medical advances that made victims more likely to survive being shot or knifed. Social theorists in 1962 would have happily bet that these fortunate conditions would lead to a continuing era of low crime. And they would have lost their shirts.
----

Together with self-control and societal connectedness, a third ideal came under attack: marriage and family life, which had done so much to domesticate male violence in the preceding decades.

The idea that a man and a woman should devote their energies to a monogamous relationship in which they raise their children in a safe environment became a target of howling ridicule. That life was now the soulless, conformist, consumerist, materialist, ticky-tacky, plastic, white-bread, Ozzie and Harriet suburban wasteland.

Britain has now reached the point where their families have collapsed.........and their rising levels of young male of violence and murder show this...

Also in Britain....law enforcement on the run....as happened in the U.S. in the 1960s....

As the rationalizations for criminality caught the attention of judges and legislators, they became increasingly reluctant to put miscreants behind bars. Though the civil liberties reform of the era did not lead to nearly as many vicious criminals ‘going free on a technicality’ as the Dirty Harry movies would suggest, law enforcement was indeed retreating as the crime rate was advancing. In the United States from 1962 to 1979, the likelihood that a crime would lead to an arrest dropped from 0.32 to 0.18, the likelihood that an arrest would lead to imprisonment dropped from 0.32 to 0.14, and the likelihood that a crime would lead to imprisonment fell from 0.10 to 0.02, a factor of five.[10]

and still = FOUR TIMES less murder rate

Which has nothing to do with their gun control laws......you moron. They had a low gun murder rate before they banned guns.....they had a 10 year spike after they banned guns, now their gun murder rate returned to the same level as before they banned guns....which, using "Science" shows that gun control had no effect on their gun murder rate....you doofus.

Meanwhile, as more Americans own and carry guns....our gun murder rate went down 49%.....our gun crime rate went down 75%....using "science" that would mean that law abiding people with guns do not increase the gun murder rate or the gun crime rate.....showing your theory is crap. It has no evidence to support it, and that you cling to it means you are using emotion, not reason, to cling to your agenda.

you people are like babies with teething rings--''don't take my guns!!!! waaaaaa
gun control--waaaaaaa
Germany, France, England, Japan, NZealand, etc etc --all lower murder rates
LA and NY and CHi lower murder rates than very pro-gun ST Louis
etc

Again, nothing to do with their gun control laws. St. Louis has a revolving door policy for gun offenders....and the L.A. and New York rates are now going up.....and the revolving door policy for gun offenders is also going on in Chicago....you moron.

And let's not forget that German murdered 12 million people , and France handed over it's people for the slaughter.....and New Zealand has a low gun murder rate before they went asshat and decided to ban guns.....

gun control isn't stopping gun crime.....as I have shown you over and over.

 

[2aguy]

Okay, they allow the rich to have a very few, select types of hunting shot gun......but even with that limited selection, how do teenagers keep getting guns to shoot other teenagers....in gun free Britain? When they banned and confiscated guns, did they forget to take guns away from teenagers? Teenagers who can't legally own any guns...at all, no matter what type they are? And what keeps these teenagers with guns in Britain from walking into a school, a mall, a theater, a church and shooting people?

Two teenagers charged with south London murder of 18-year-old

Two teenagers have been charged with the murder of an 18-year-old who was stabbed to death in London during a weekend which saw three men killed in separate attacks in less than 24 hours.

In a second incident in a different part of London just minutes later, a 19-year-old man was fatally shot in Plumstead.

-----

On Saturday afternoon a man in his 30s was stabbed to death in Tower Hamlets, east London, and three men were also stabbed in a separate attack in Clapham, south-west London.

Why are you once again bringing up lower gun crime rates in countries with more gun control?

Because asshats lie and say their low gun crime rates are due to their gun control laws.....I have shown over and over that their criminals have guns, they don't commit murder with them. The British police have stated they can't stop the increasing flow of illegal guns into the country, the French police state that fully automatic military weapons are the weapon of choice for their criminals, and Australian gun crime is going up, not down....

You people are lying......

 

[Toronado3800]

Okay, they allow the rich to have a very few, select types of hunting shot gun......but even with that limited selection, how do teenagers keep getting guns to shoot other teenagers....in gun free Britain? When they banned and confiscated guns, did they forget to take guns away from teenagers? Teenagers who can't legally own any guns...at all, no matter what type they are? And what keeps these teenagers with guns in Britain from walking into a school, a mall, a theater, a church and shooting people?

Two teenagers charged with south London murder of 18-year-old

Two teenagers have been charged with the murder of an 18-year-old who was stabbed to death in London during a weekend which saw three men killed in separate attacks in less than 24 hours.

In a second incident in a different part of London just minutes later, a 19-year-old man was fatally shot in Plumstead.

-----

On Saturday afternoon a man in his 30s was stabbed to death in Tower Hamlets, east London, and three men were also stabbed in a separate attack in Clapham, south-west London.

Why are you once again bringing up lower gun crime rates in countries with more gun control?

Because asshats lie and say their low gun crime rates are due to their gun control laws.....I have shown over and over that their criminals have guns, they don't commit murder with them. The British police have stated they can't stop the increasing flow of illegal guns into the country, the French police state that fully automatic military weapons are the weapon of choice for their criminals, and Australian gun crime is going up, not down....

You people are lying......

Its a world wide conspiracy. Grab the tin foil hat to save yourself.

Talk about your rights and privacy and lay down in the face of corporate surveillance through every electronic device you own.

 

[Vagabond63]

What is it with you nutjobs and the NRA.......?

This answers your question far better than I ever could.

, yeah, they have helped keep asshats like you from banning guns

We didn't ban guns, only pistols and machine guns. There are tens of thousands of registered firearms in the UK.

guns that Americans use 1.1 million times a year to save lives

The above is just a statistical estimate extrapolated from a tiny sample. One of your cronies pointed out that guns used to "dissuade" potential or actual attackers, always a subjective/paranoid/cowardly response, are never reported. The figure could be ten times that, or equally, a tenth of that.

You have an illness......you want to control other people and when people have guns it drives you nuts....even though they don't use those guns for crime, it still drives you nuts.....you guys are control freaks... and you are willing to allow women to be raped, murdered simply because you can't stand the chaos you think exists, when people own guns....even though nothing in the real world confirms your sickness....

I like guns, until 1997 I owned three pistols (a Baretta, a Glock and a HK if you want to know) and was a member of two shooting clubs. I protested the introduction of the law that took my guns away, but then realised, if I can't have guns, neither can the psychos and lunatics that caused mass shootings in my country. I could walk down the street confident that no-one else around me was a potential psycho-killer with a gun, or worse, an inexperienced "white knight wannabe" that pulled a gun to stop a crime and missed their target and hit me or another innocent bystander. If you want guns, have them; it's your country, but reference the You tube video, don't bring your agenda over here, we don't need it we don't want it, so off you jolly well fuck.

 

[2aguy]

What is it with you nutjobs and the NRA.......?

This answers your question far better than I ever could.

, yeah, they have helped keep asshats like you from banning guns

We didn't ban guns, only pistols and machine guns. There are tens of thousands of registered firearms in the UK.

guns that Americans use 1.1 million times a year to save lives

The above is just a statistical estimate extrapolated from a tiny sample. One of your cronies pointed out that guns used to "dissuade" potential or actual attackers, always a subjective/paranoid/cowardly response, are never reported. The figure could be ten times that, or equally, a tenth of that.

You have an illness......you want to control other people and when people have guns it drives you nuts....even though they don't use those guns for crime, it still drives you nuts.....you guys are control freaks... and you are willing to allow women to be raped, murdered simply because you can't stand the chaos you think exists, when people own guns....even though nothing in the real world confirms your sickness....

I like guns, until 1997 I owned three pistols (a Baretta, a Glock and a HK if you want to know) and was a member of two shooting clubs. I protested the introduction of the law that took my guns away, but then realised, if I can't have guns, neither can the psychos and lunatics that caused mass shootings in my country. I could walk down the street confident that no-one else around me was a potential psycho-killer with a gun, or worse, an inexperienced "white knight wannabe" that pulled a gun to stop a crime and missed their target and hit me or another innocent bystander. If you want guns, have them; it's your country, but reference the You tube video, don't bring your agenda over here, we don't need it we don't want it, so off you jolly well fuck.

The above is just a statistical estimate extrapolated from a tiny sample. One of your cronies pointed out that guns used to "dissuade" potential or actual attackers, always a subjective/paranoid/cowardly response, are never reported. The figure could be ten times that, or equally, a tenth of that.

Seventeen different studies, both government and private confirm these numbers....even one from the Centers for Disease Control, and another from the Department of Justice, both while under the control of Anti-gun bill clinton...

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million averaged over those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

 

[2aguy]

What is it with you nutjobs and the NRA.......?

This answers your question far better than I ever could.

, yeah, they have helped keep asshats like you from banning guns

We didn't ban guns, only pistols and machine guns. There are tens of thousands of registered firearms in the UK.

guns that Americans use 1.1 million times a year to save lives

The above is just a statistical estimate extrapolated from a tiny sample. One of your cronies pointed out that guns used to "dissuade" potential or actual attackers, always a subjective/paranoid/cowardly response, are never reported. The figure could be ten times that, or equally, a tenth of that.

You have an illness......you want to control other people and when people have guns it drives you nuts....even though they don't use those guns for crime, it still drives you nuts.....you guys are control freaks... and you are willing to allow women to be raped, murdered simply because you can't stand the chaos you think exists, when people own guns....even though nothing in the real world confirms your sickness....

I like guns, until 1997 I owned three pistols (a Baretta, a Glock and a HK if you want to know) and was a member of two shooting clubs. I protested the introduction of the law that took my guns away, but then realised, if I can't have guns, neither can the psychos and lunatics that caused mass shootings in my country. I could walk down the street confident that no-one else around me was a potential psycho-killer with a gun, or worse, an inexperienced "white knight wannabe" that pulled a gun to stop a crime and missed their target and hit me or another innocent bystander. If you want guns, have them; it's your country, but reference the You tube video, don't bring your agenda over here, we don't need it we don't want it, so off you jolly well fuck.

Keep denying the reality...... your social welfare state has destroyed your families ..... the police are now the bad guys, the violent criminals the victims....and illegal guns are flooding Britain....as the police have stated....

Britain is at the exact same point the United States was at in the mid 1960s, criminals converting from small youth gangs with knives, to violent males willing to kill without remorse.

 

[Vagabond63]

What is it with you nutjobs and the NRA.......?

This answers your question far better than I ever could.

, yeah, they have helped keep asshats like you from banning guns

We didn't ban guns, only pistols and machine guns. There are tens of thousands of registered firearms in the UK.

guns that Americans use 1.1 million times a year to save lives

The above is just a statistical estimate extrapolated from a tiny sample. One of your cronies pointed out that guns used to "dissuade" potential or actual attackers, always a subjective/paranoid/cowardly response, are never reported. The figure could be ten times that, or equally, a tenth of that.

You have an illness......you want to control other people and when people have guns it drives you nuts....even though they don't use those guns for crime, it still drives you nuts.....you guys are control freaks... and you are willing to allow women to be raped, murdered simply because you can't stand the chaos you think exists, when people own guns....even though nothing in the real world confirms your sickness....

I like guns, until 1997 I owned three pistols (a Baretta, a Glock and a HK if you want to know) and was a member of two shooting clubs. I protested the introduction of the law that took my guns away, but then realised, if I can't have guns, neither can the psychos and lunatics that caused mass shootings in my country. I could walk down the street confident that no-one else around me was a potential psycho-killer with a gun, or worse, an inexperienced "white knight wannabe" that pulled a gun to stop a crime and missed their target and hit me or another innocent bystander. If you want guns, have them; it's your country, but reference the You tube video, don't bring your agenda over here, we don't need it we don't want it, so off you jolly well fuck.

The above is just a statistical estimate extrapolated from a tiny sample. One of your cronies pointed out that guns used to "dissuade" potential or actual attackers, always a subjective/paranoid/cowardly response, are never reported. The figure could be ten times that, or equally, a tenth of that.

Seventeen different studies, both government and private confirm these numbers....even one from the Centers for Disease Control, and another from the Department of Justice, both while under the control of Anti-gun bill clinton...

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million averaged over those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

Thank you for proving my point, all these studies were based on small sample groups and were based on subjective opinions of respondants. Your own figures give you a range of between 500,000 and 4,000,000; and could easily be 0-40,000,000. Your 1.1 million lives saved mantra is meaningless so stop touting it as fact, it isn't.

 

[Vagabond63]

What is it with you nutjobs and the NRA.......?

This answers your question far better than I ever could.

, yeah, they have helped keep asshats like you from banning guns

We didn't ban guns, only pistols and machine guns. There are tens of thousands of registered firearms in the UK.

guns that Americans use 1.1 million times a year to save lives

The above is just a statistical estimate extrapolated from a tiny sample. One of your cronies pointed out that guns used to "dissuade" potential or actual attackers, always a subjective/paranoid/cowardly response, are never reported. The figure could be ten times that, or equally, a tenth of that.

You have an illness......you want to control other people and when people have guns it drives you nuts....even though they don't use those guns for crime, it still drives you nuts.....you guys are control freaks... and you are willing to allow women to be raped, murdered simply because you can't stand the chaos you think exists, when people own guns....even though nothing in the real world confirms your sickness....

I like guns, until 1997 I owned three pistols (a Baretta, a Glock and a HK if you want to know) and was a member of two shooting clubs. I protested the introduction of the law that took my guns away, but then realised, if I can't have guns, neither can the psychos and lunatics that caused mass shootings in my country. I could walk down the street confident that no-one else around me was a potential psycho-killer with a gun, or worse, an inexperienced "white knight wannabe" that pulled a gun to stop a crime and missed their target and hit me or another innocent bystander. If you want guns, have them; it's your country, but reference the You tube video, don't bring your agenda over here, we don't need it we don't want it, so off you jolly well fuck.

Keep denying the reality...... your social welfare state has destroyed your families ..... the police are now the bad guys, the violent criminals the victims....and illegal guns are flooding Britain....as the police have stated....

Britain is at the exact same point the United States was at in the mid 1960s, criminals converting from small youth gangs with knives, to violent males willing to kill without remorse.

Blah, blah. Based on the writings of a right-wingers' wet dream fantasy based on hearsay and interviews of again, a tiny sample of the worst possible cases (attempted suicides and prisoners). If things were really that bad, wouldn't arming everyone make it a whole lot worse?

Guns are not the solution to any society's problems, they exacerbate them.

 

[2aguy]

What is it with you nutjobs and the NRA.......?

This answers your question far better than I ever could.

, yeah, they have helped keep asshats like you from banning guns

We didn't ban guns, only pistols and machine guns. There are tens of thousands of registered firearms in the UK.

guns that Americans use 1.1 million times a year to save lives

The above is just a statistical estimate extrapolated from a tiny sample. One of your cronies pointed out that guns used to "dissuade" potential or actual attackers, always a subjective/paranoid/cowardly response, are never reported. The figure could be ten times that, or equally, a tenth of that.

You have an illness......you want to control other people and when people have guns it drives you nuts....even though they don't use those guns for crime, it still drives you nuts.....you guys are control freaks... and you are willing to allow women to be raped, murdered simply because you can't stand the chaos you think exists, when people own guns....even though nothing in the real world confirms your sickness....

I like guns, until 1997 I owned three pistols (a Baretta, a Glock and a HK if you want to know) and was a member of two shooting clubs. I protested the introduction of the law that took my guns away, but then realised, if I can't have guns, neither can the psychos and lunatics that caused mass shootings in my country. I could walk down the street confident that no-one else around me was a potential psycho-killer with a gun, or worse, an inexperienced "white knight wannabe" that pulled a gun to stop a crime and missed their target and hit me or another innocent bystander. If you want guns, have them; it's your country, but reference the You tube video, don't bring your agenda over here, we don't need it we don't want it, so off you jolly well fuck.

The above is just a statistical estimate extrapolated from a tiny sample. One of your cronies pointed out that guns used to "dissuade" potential or actual attackers, always a subjective/paranoid/cowardly response, are never reported. The figure could be ten times that, or equally, a tenth of that.

Seventeen different studies, both government and private confirm these numbers....even one from the Centers for Disease Control, and another from the Department of Justice, both while under the control of Anti-gun bill clinton...

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million averaged over those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

Thank you for proving my point, all these studies were based on small sample groups and were based on subjective opinions of respondants. Your own figures give you a range of between 500,000 and 4,000,000; and could easily be 0-40,000,000. Your 1.1 million lives saved mantra is meaningless so stop touting it as fact, it isn't.

And yet that is how actual research is done....and if it was meaningless, the CDC would not have tried to hide their information....which they did. They did the research, then hid the data......

Americans use their legal guns 1.1 million times a year according to the Centers for Disease control....while in Britain, you are violently assaulted and can do nothing about it. Americans use their legal guns to stop rapes, robberies and murders.....the British just endure.

Keeping in mind this truth....as more Americans own and carry guns....our gun murder rate went down 49%.... before Britain banned guns they had a low gun murder rate, after they banned guns the gun murder rate spiked for 10 years, then returned to the same level.......

This shows that gun control laws do not control the gun crime rate, gun control has nothing to do with gun crime. The actions of criminals determine gun crime rates.

The fact that as more Americans own and cary guns the gun crime rate went down 75%, and the gun murder rate went down 49% shows you don't understand the issue, it blows a hole in your entire argument about gun control.

What causes gun crime? Fatherless homes, and left wing policies. You will become intimately familiar with those problems in the coming years....

 

[2aguy]

What is it with you nutjobs and the NRA.......?

This answers your question far better than I ever could.

, yeah, they have helped keep asshats like you from banning guns

We didn't ban guns, only pistols and machine guns. There are tens of thousands of registered firearms in the UK.

guns that Americans use 1.1 million times a year to save lives

The above is just a statistical estimate extrapolated from a tiny sample. One of your cronies pointed out that guns used to "dissuade" potential or actual attackers, always a subjective/paranoid/cowardly response, are never reported. The figure could be ten times that, or equally, a tenth of that.

You have an illness......you want to control other people and when people have guns it drives you nuts....even though they don't use those guns for crime, it still drives you nuts.....you guys are control freaks... and you are willing to allow women to be raped, murdered simply because you can't stand the chaos you think exists, when people own guns....even though nothing in the real world confirms your sickness....

I like guns, until 1997 I owned three pistols (a Baretta, a Glock and a HK if you want to know) and was a member of two shooting clubs. I protested the introduction of the law that took my guns away, but then realised, if I can't have guns, neither can the psychos and lunatics that caused mass shootings in my country. I could walk down the street confident that no-one else around me was a potential psycho-killer with a gun, or worse, an inexperienced "white knight wannabe" that pulled a gun to stop a crime and missed their target and hit me or another innocent bystander. If you want guns, have them; it's your country, but reference the You tube video, don't bring your agenda over here, we don't need it we don't want it, so off you jolly well fuck.

Keep denying the reality...... your social welfare state has destroyed your families ..... the police are now the bad guys, the violent criminals the victims....and illegal guns are flooding Britain....as the police have stated....

Britain is at the exact same point the United States was at in the mid 1960s, criminals converting from small youth gangs with knives, to violent males willing to kill without remorse.

Blah, blah. Based on the writings of a right-wingers' wet dream fantasy based on hearsay and interviews of again, a tiny sample of the worst possible cases (attempted suicides and prisoners). If things were really that bad, wouldn't arming everyone make it a whole lot worse?

Guns are not the solution to any society's problems, they exacerbate them.

Guns are not the solution to any society's problems, they exacerbate them.[

The actual facts on the ground show you are wrong......your theory on guns and violence are completely wrong......

If your theory had any merit, the following would not be true.......but it is true, it is the reality and your theory is crap....based on nothing but an emotional dislike of guns and a flawed understanding of criminal activity.

Over the last 26 years, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17.25 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2018...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

You can't explain how our gun murder rate went down 49%, our gun crime rate went down 75%, and our violent crime rate went down 72% if more guns in the hands of normal people are supposed to increase all three categories....

You can't explain that no matter how hard you try...

 

[Vagabond63]

....and if it was meaningless, the CDC would not have tried to hide their information....which they did. They did the research, then hid the data......

Who says? The CDC used a small sample that did not give a definitive answer to their question so stated a much larger reseach project was necessary...then had their funding cut for defensive gun use research by the gun nuts in your own Congress.

Americans use their legal guns 1.1 million times a year according to the Centers for Disease control....

Show me that exact quote from the CDC and exactly how they arrived at that conclusion. The figure you kept quoting for ages was 2.5 million, then you suddenly changed it to 1.1 million, the bottom line is, no one knows the true figure. Your 1.1 million mantra is just regurgitate bullsh*t.

 

[2aguy]

....and if it was meaningless, the CDC would not have tried to hide their information....which they did. They did the research, then hid the data......

Who says? The CDC used a small sample that did not give a definitive answer to their question so stated a much larger reseach project was necessary...then had their funding cut for defensive gun use research by the gun nuts in your own Congress.

Americans use their legal guns 1.1 million times a year according to the Centers for Disease control....

Show me that exact quote from the CDC and exactly how they arrived at that conclusion. The figure you kept quoting for ages was 2.5 million, then you suddenly changed it to 1.1 million, the bottom line is, no one knows the true figure. Your 1.1 million mantra is just regurgitate bullsh*t.

No, their funding was not cut...that is a lie....

The 2.5 million was the research by Dr. Gary Kleck....in response to his research the Department of Justice and the CDC did their own research, because the President at the time was bill, the rapist, clinton, who was pushing gun control. The Department of Justice, creating their own method and conducting their own research? Came up with 1.5 million defensive gun uses a year....the Centers for Disease Control, also looking to push gun control, did their own research with a massive sample size....and came up with 1.1 million times a year......those are 3 different studies, by 3 anti-gunners.....with huge numbers for defensive gun use.

I now use the CDC because all the asshat anti-gunners over here are demanding that the CDC do more gun research with the objective of calling for more gun control....but using the CDC number, it shuts them up....and drives them nuts....... they love big government, and they see the CDC as a way to push gun control.....until the actual CDC research is revealed.....then, like you, they say the CDC research isn't credible.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

Again...the CDC, the Department of Justice and Dr. Gary Kleck....were all anti-gun when they conducted their research.......

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million averaged over those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..


They are not the only ones....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million averaged over those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

 

[Vagabond63]

....and if it was meaningless, the CDC would not have tried to hide their information....which they did. They did the research, then hid the data......

Who says? The CDC used a small sample that did not give a definitive answer to their question so stated a much larger reseach project was necessary...then had their funding cut for defensive gun use research by the gun nuts in your own Congress.

Americans use their legal guns 1.1 million times a year according to the Centers for Disease control....

Show me that exact quote from the CDC and exactly how they arrived at that conclusion. The figure you kept quoting for ages was 2.5 million, then you suddenly changed it to 1.1 million, the bottom line is, no one knows the true figure. Your 1.1 million mantra is just regurgitate bullsh*t.

No, their funding was not cut...that is a lie....

The 2.5 million was the research by Dr. Gary Kleck....in response to his research the Department of Justice and the CDC did their own research, because the President at the time was bill, the rapist, clinton, who was pushing gun control. The Department of Justice, creating their own method and conducting their own research? Came up with 1.5 million defensive gun uses a year....the Centers for Disease Control, also looking to push gun control, did their own research with a massive sample size....and came up with 1.1 million times a year......those are 3 different studies, by 3 anti-gunners.....with huge numbers for defensive gun use.

I now use the CDC because all the asshat anti-gunners over here are demanding that the CDC do more gun research with the objective of calling for more gun control....but using the CDC number, it shuts them up....and drives them nuts....... they love big government, and they see the CDC as a way to push gun control.....until the actual CDC research is revealed.....then, like you, they say the CDC research isn't credible.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

Again...the CDC, the Department of Justice and Dr. Gary Kleck....were all anti-gun when they conducted their research.......

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million averaged over those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..


They are not the only ones....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million averaged over those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

Well that's your normal cut and paste go to, except I asked for the actual CDC documented quote or a direct link to the CDC study that actually states this so called "fact", not some gun nuts' wet dream fantasy interpretation.

 

[Vagabond63]

You can't explain how our gun murder rate went down 49%, our gun crime rate went down 75%, and our violent crime rate went down 72% if more guns in the hands of normal people are supposed to increase all three categories....

You can't explain that no matter how hard you try...

I don't need to. Here's a link to the Brenner Centre for Justice who carried out research into this very topic in 2015. What Caused the Crime Decline?

The bottom line is that there were many possible contributary factors, but more guns in private hands wasn't one of them.

 

[Vagabond63]

No, their funding was not cut...that is a lie....

Dickey amendment Dickey Amendment - Wikipedia

 

[2aguy]

You can't explain how our gun murder rate went down 49%, our gun crime rate went down 75%, and our violent crime rate went down 72% if more guns in the hands of normal people are supposed to increase all three categories....

You can't explain that no matter how hard you try...

I don't need to. Here's a link to the Brenner Centre for Justice who carried out research into this very topic in 2015. What Caused the Crime Decline?

The bottom line is that there were many possible contributary factors, but more guns in private hands wasn't one of them.

What you fail to grasp.........is that as more Americans own and carry guns since the 1990s......gun crime did not go up.....gun murder did not go up....which, in a scientific experiment would be evidence that gun ownership does not cause increases in gun crime.....and Britain would back up this fact.....since they had a low gun murder rate before they banned guns, and they have the same gun murder rate after they banned guns....after a 10 year spike in gun murder after they banned guns....

Your theory does not hold up to the facts on the ground.....

And I have studies that show that private ownership does help lower crime rates....

http://crimeresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Bartley-Cohen-Economic-Inquiry-1998.pdf


The Effect of Concealed Weapons Laws: An Extreme Bound Analysis by William Alan Bartley and Mark A Cohen, published in Economic Inquiry, April 1998 (Copy available here)

.....we find strong support for the hypothesis that the right-to-carry laws are associated with a decrease in the trend in violent crime rates.....

Paper........CCW does not increase police deaths...

http://crimeresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Mustard-JLE-Polic-Deaths-Gun-Control.pdf

This paper uses state-level data from 1984–96 to examine how right-to-carry laws and waiting periods affect the felonious deaths of police. Some people oppose concealed weapons carry laws because they believe these laws jeopardize law enforcement officials, who risk their lives to protect the citizenry. This paper strongly rejects this contention. States that allowed law-abiding citizens to carry concealed weapons had a slightly higher likelihood of having a felonious police death and slightly higher police death rates prior to the law. After enactment of the right-to-carry laws, states exhibit a reduced likelihood of having a felonious police death rate and slightly lower rates of police deaths. States that implement waiting periods have slightly lower felonious police death rates both before and after the law. Allowing law-abiding citizens to carry concealed weapons does not endanger the lives of officers and may help reduce their risk of being killed

========

http://johnrlott.tripod.com/tideman.pdf


Does the Right to Carry Concealed Handguns Deter Countable Crimes? Only a Count Analysis Can Say By FLORENZ PLASSMANN AND T. NICOLAUS TIDEMAN, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

However, for all three crime categories the levels in years 2 and 3 after adoption of a right-to-carry law are significantly below the levels in the years before the adoption of the law, which suggests that there is generally a deterrent effect and that it takes about 1 year for this effect to emerge.

=======

http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/323313

Testing for the Effects of Concealed Weapons Laws: Specification Errors and Robustness*




Carlisle E. Moody
College of William and Mary
Overall, right‐to‐carry concealed weapons laws tend to reduce violent crime. The effect on property crime is more uncertain. I find evidence that these laws also reduce burglary.
====
http://crimeresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Helland-Tabarrok-Placebo-Laws.pdf
Using Placebo Laws to Test “More Guns, Less Crime”∗ Eric Helland and Alexander Tabarrok

We also find, however, that the cross equation restrictions implied by the Lott-Mustard theory are supported.
-----
Surprisingly, therefore, we conclude that there is considerable support for the hypothesis that shall-issue laws cause criminals to substitute away from crimes against persons and towards crimes against property.
===========
http://johnrlott.tripod.com/Maltz.pdf


Right-to-Carry Concealed Weapon Laws and Homicide in Large U.S. Counties: The Effect on Weapon Types, Victim Characteristics, and Victim-Offender Relationships By DAVID E. OLSON AND MICHAEL D. MALTZ, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Our results indicated that the direction of effect of the shall-issue law on total SHR homicide rates was similar to that obtained by Lott and Mustard, although the magnitude of the effect was somewhat smaller and was statistically significant at the 7 percent level. In our analysis, which included only counties with a 1977 population of 100,000 or more, laws allowing for concealed weapons were associated with a 6.52 percent reduction in total homicides (Table 2). By comparison, Lott and Mustard found the concealed weapon dummy variable to be associated with a 7.65 percent reduction in total homicides across all counties and a 9 percent reduction in homicides when only large counties (populations of 100,000 or more) were included.43

===============

This one shows the benefits, in the billions of CCW laws...

http://johnrlott.tripod.com/Plassmann_Whitley.pdf

COMMENTS Confirming ìMore Guns, Less Crimeî Florenz Plassmann* & John Whitley**

CONCLUSION Analyzing county-level data for the entire United States from 1977 to 2000, we find annual reductions in murder rates between 1.5% and 2.3% for each additional year that a right-to-carry law is in effect. For the first five years that such a law is in effect, the total benefit from reduced crimes usually ranges between about $2 and $3 billion per year. The results are very similar to earlier estimates using county-level data from 1977 to 1996. We appreciate the continuing effort that Ayres and Donohue have made in discussing the impact of right-to-carry laws on crime rates. Yet we believe that both the new evidence provided by them as well as our new results show consistently that right-to-carry laws reduce crime and save lives. Unfortunately, a few simple mistakes lead Ayres and Donohue to incorrectly claim that crime rates significantly increase after right-to-carry laws are initially adopted and to misinterpret the significance of their own estimates that examined the year-to-year impact of the law.

=============

http://crimeresearch.org/wp-content...An-Exercise-in-Replication.proof_.revised.pdf

~ The Impact of Right-to-Carry Laws on Crime: An Exercise in Replication1

Carlisle E. Moody College of William and Mary - Department of Economics, Virginia 23187, U.S.A. E-mail: [email protected] Thomas B. Marvell Justec Research, Virginia 23185, U.S.A. Paul R. Zimmerman U.S. Federal Trade Commission - Bureau of Economics, Washington, D.C., U.S.A. Fasil Alemante College of William and Mary, Virginia 23187, U.S.A.


Abstract: In an article published in 2011, Aneja, Donohue and Zhang found that shall-issue or right-to-carry (RTC) concealed weapons laws have no effect on any crime except for a positive effect on assault. This paper reports a replication of their basic findings and some corresponding robustness checks, which reveal a serious omitted variable problem. Once corrected for omitted variables, the most robust result, confirmed using both county and state data, is that RTC laws significantly reduce murder. There is no robust, consistent evidence that RTC laws have any significant effect on other violent crimes, including assault. There is some weak evidence that RTC laws increase robbery and assault while decreasing rape. Given that the victim costs of murder and rape are much higher than the costs of robbery and assault, the evidence shows that RTC laws are socially beneficial.

=======

States with lower guns = higher murder....and assault weapon ban pointless..

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/13504851.2013.854294

An examination of the effects of concealed weapons laws and assault weapons bans on state-level murder rates
Mark Gius

Abstract
The purpose of the present study is to determine the effects of state-level assault weapons bans and concealed weapons laws on state-level murder rates. Using data for the period 1980 to 2009 and controlling for state and year fixed effects, the results of the present study suggest that states with restrictions on the carrying of concealed weapons had higher gun-related murder rates than other states. It was also found that assault weapons bans did not significantly affect murder rates at the state level. These results suggest that restrictive concealed weapons laws may cause an increase in gun-related murders at the state level. The results of this study are consistent with some prior research in this area, most notably Lott and Mustard (1997).





Taking apart ayre and donahue one....




“The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws” by Carlisle e. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, volume 5, number 3, September 2008 It is also available here..



Abstract
“Shall-issue” laws require authorities to issue concealed-weapons permits to anyone who applies, unless the applicant has a criminal record or a history of mental illness. A large number of studies indicate that shall-issue laws reduce crime. Only one study, an influential paper in the Stanford Law Review (2003) by Ian Ayres and John J. Donohue iii, implies that these laws lead to an increase in crime. We apply an improved version of the Ayres and Donohue method to a more extensive data set. Our analysis, as well as Ayres and Donohue’s when projected beyond a five-year span, indicates that shall-issue laws decrease crime and the costs of crime. Purists in statistical analysis object with some cause to some of methods employed both by Ayres and Donohue and by us. But our paper upgrades Ayres and Donohue, so, until the next study comes along, our paper should neutralize Ayres and Donohue’s “more guns, more crime” conclusion.

Summary and Conclusion Many articles have been published finding that shall-issue laws reduce crime. Only one article, by Ayres and Donohue who employ a model that combines a dummy variable with a post-law trend, claims to find that shall-issue laws increase crime. However, the only way that they can produce the result that shall-issue laws increase crime is to confine the span of analysis to five years. We show, using their own estimates, that if they had extended their analysis by one more year, they would have concluded that these laws reduce crime.


Since most states with shallissue laws have had these laws on the books for more than five years, and the law will presumably remain on the books for some time, the only relevant analysis extends beyond five years. We extend their analysis by adding three more years of data, control for the effects of crack cocaine, control for dynamic effects, and correct the standard errors for clustering. We find that there is an initial increase in crime due to passage of the shall-issue law that is dwarfed over time by the decrease in crime associated with the post-law trend. These results are very similar to those of Ayres and Donohue, properly interpreted.

The modified Ayres and Donohue model finds that shall-issue laws significantly reduce murder and burglary across all the adopting states. These laws appear to significantly increase assault, and have no net effect on rape, robbery, larceny, or auto theft. However, in the long run only the trend coefficients matter. We estimate a net benefit of $450 million per year as a result of the passage of these laws. We also estimate that, up through 2000, there was a cumulative overall net benefit of these laws of $28 billion since their passage.

We think that there is credible statistical evidence that these laws lower the costs of crime. But at the very least, the present study should neutralize any “more guns, more crime” thinking based on Ayres and Donohue’s work in the Stanford Law Review. We acknowledge that, especially in light of the methodological issues of the literature in general, the magnitudes derived from our analysis of crime statistics and the supposed costs of crime might be dwarfed by other considerations in judging the policy issue. Some might contend that allowing individuals to carry a concealed weapon is a moral or cultural bad. Others might contend that greater liberty is a moral or cultural good. All we are confident in saying is that the evidence, such as it is, seems to support the hypothesis that the shall-issue law is generally beneficial with respect to its overall long run effect on crime.



The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws · Econ Journal Watch : shall-issue, crime, handguns, concealed weapons