How Did Pterosaurs Fly? They Were Too Big And Too Heavy.

So according to Creationcysts like James Bond.. "god" Must have created a creature with Giant Wings that couldn't fly.. and would also then be unwieldly and and undefendable on the ground.
RIGHT JAMES?
Yet they lived for 100 million years!
Hmm


I guess they indeed flew.
Does JB look for an explanation for his 2008 article?
No.
He's a Blind believer, and and just wants to throw science in doubt.
Me?
I look and learn.
Creationists, though, are Willfully Stupid.

Pterosaur - Wikipedia

Flight
The mechanics of pterosaur flight are not completely understood or modeled at this time.[41][42]

Katsufumi Sato, a Japanese scientist, did calculations using modern birds and concluded that it was impossible for a pterosaur to stay aloft.[41] In the book Posture, Locomotion, and Paleoecology of Pterosaurs it is theorized that they were able to fly due to the oxygen-rich, dense atmosphere of the Late Cretaceous period.[43] However, both Sato and the authors of Posture, Locomotion, and Paleoecology of Pterosaurs based their research on the now outdated theories of pterosaurs being seabird-like, and the size limit does not apply to terrestrial pterosaurs, such as azhdarchids and tapejarids. Furthermore, Darren Naish concluded that atmospheric differences between the present and the Mesozoic were not needed for the giant size of pterosaurs.[44]

Another issue that has been difficult to understand is how they took off. Earlier suggestions were that pterosaurs were largely cold-blooded gliding animals, deriving warmth from the environment like modern lizards, rather than burning calories. In this case, it was unclear how the larger ones of enormous size, with an inefficient cold-blooded metabolism, could manage a bird-like takeoff strategy, using only the hind limbs to generate thrust for getting airborne.

Later research shows them instead as being warm-blooded and having powerful flight muscles, and using the flight muscles for walking as quadrupeds.[45] Mark Witton of the University of Portsmouth and Mike Habib of Johns Hopkins Universitysuggested that pterosaurs used a vaulting mechanism to obtain flight.[46]
The tremendous power of their winged forelimbs would enable them to take off with ease.[45] Once aloft, pterosaurs could reach speeds of up to 120 kilometres per hour (75 mph) and travel thousands of kilometres.[46]

In 1985, the Smithsonian Institution commissioned aeronautical engineer Paul MacCready to build a half-scale working model of Quetzalcoatlus northropi. The replica was launched with a ground-based winch. It flew several times in 1986 and was filmed as part of the Smithsonian's IMAX film On the Wing. However, the model was not anatomically correct and embodied vertical and horizontal tail stabilizers that pterosaurs did not have. It also had a longer tail, changing the weight distribution.".."​
`
"god" Must have created a creature with Giant Wings that couldn't fly.. and would also then be unwieldly and and undefendable on the ground.
RIGHT JAMES?
Yet they lived for 100 million years!
Hmm

So much here. Funny, hilarious and common sense all rolled into one.

Not only lived but during the time of speed demon raptors and other meat eaters.
 
"Whatever crawls on its belly, and whatever walks on all fours, whatever has many feet, in respect to every swarming thing that swarms on the earth, you shall not eat them, for they are detestable." Leviticus 11:12

.


…..but wasn't that you I saw eating at Red Lobster the other day?

I think it was.
 
"Whatever crawls on its belly, and whatever walks on all fours, whatever has many feet, in respect to every swarming thing that swarms on the earth, you shall not eat them, for they are detestable." Leviticus 11:12

.


…..but wasn't that you I saw eating at Red Lobster the other day?

I think it was.

Probably was. I love steak and lobster, just lobster, crab, oysters, shrimp and so on. That part of OT law was fulfilled by Jesus.
 
Why would a change to atmospheric density and gravity be bizarro? Earth's atmosphere is held in place by gravity.

Earth's atmosphere is made up of several gases. They each have their own density. The relative amounts of each gas has changed over the history of the Earth. So the density of the atmosphere has changed. That has been proven and recorded.

Gravity is a function of the mass of the planet and the Earth's rotation. This has not changed. Gravity was not significantly lighter only a few thousand years ago.

I disagree that gravity has not changed. The earth was smaller and thus the gravity less in ancient times, relatively speaking. We have the expanding earth theory.

The experts Witton and Habib state that even with the "same" gravity as today, the creatures still would be able to fly. Why have wings like bats and light bone structure if they could not fly? We have reports from people today that they fly. There's even a civil war picture that shows soldiers with one of them. I think they are living fossils and are capable of flight even in today's heavier gravity and larger earth.

The expanding earth theory was all the rage hundreds of years ago. But Plate Techtonics explain the jigsaw puzzle look of the continents.

Expanding earth theories are not taken seriously by most scientists. There is no mechanism of action. No measurements that can be shown. And the only real evidence is the fact that the continents would fit together if moved. But the break up of Pangea can be more easily explained by plate techtonics. And there is verifiable evidence that the Earth's crust is floating on semi-molten rock. And there is measurable movement in the Earth plates.

Okay, if the earth did not expand, then how do you explain the giganticism and how the largest pterosaur flew? What caused the atmosphere to be less dense?

The flight of the pterasaur I have already explained. The bone structure and the likelihood that much gliding was involved.

As for giants, you will have to be more specific. Legends? Myths? Just very vary people? What needs explaining?

The atmosphere s made up of several gasses. Each has a different density. For a number of reasons, the concentrations of any given gas can vary. Millions of years ago, there were very different levels of each gas. So the density would be different.

I think where we disagree is whether the pterosaur walked/crawled up to it's high launch point which is gliding and not flying. OTOH, I go with Drs. Mark Witton and Mike Habib who are considered experts in pterosaurs. They contend that they were able to launch and fly. I do agree that pterosaurs did glide, but for long distance flying once it got itself airborne.

This site has articles about the prehistoric pterosaur. Unfortunately, it doesn't name its source, but as its own work.
"In the early days of pterosaur discovery most researchers considered them to be only capable of gliding and as such reliant upon thermal currents and up draughts to maintain flight.‭ ‬This in part was fuelled by the notion that all reptiles,‭ ‬based on those we know today,‭ ‬are cold blooded.‭ ‬A cold blooded creature they thought would be required to glide to reduce the need for active muscle movement,‭ ‬something associated with warm blooded animals.‭ ‬It was also thought that some of the larger kinds such as Pteranodon had wings that were simply too big to flap up and down.‭

Today the idea that pterosaurs could only glide is laughably obsolete,‭ ‬although it is recognised that some pterosaurs especially the larger varieties may have glided for extended periods in order to reduce the amount of calories required for flight.‭ ‬This would have been especially useful for pterosaurs that required keeping their energy expenditure to a minimum when searching for prey."

Pterosaurs - An Overview

There were sauropods that grew to absolutely huge sizes. We also have deep sea creatures that grew to enormous size. Pterosaurs would be considered huge creatures that flew. We also have evidence of extremely large birds under thunderbirds. We have extremely large humans that are considred giants. Another unexplained phenomenon is the 1000-ton megaliths at Baalbak, Lebanon. How could they be moved?

Sauropods
Top 10 Sauropods/Titanosaurs
 
It's popular science to claim birds are dinosaurs, but it has nothing to do with this creature.

aHR0cDovL3d3dy5saXZlc2NpZW5jZS5jb20vaW1hZ2VzL2kvMDAwLzAzNC81NDUvaTAyL1B0ZXJhbm9kb24tMTIxMjEwLmpwZz8xMzU1NTIxMTYy


These are giant flying reptiles. How did these giant reptiles ever get off the ground? Also, there are claims people have seen them, so questions remain if they are extinct.

"The 'dinosaur' popularly known as a pterodactyl is actually called a reptile called a pterosaur, which is Greek for flying lizard.

It existed alongside the dinosaurs between 251 and 65 million years ago, and were thought to be the biggest creatures to ever take to the air.

The fossilised remains of one example had a wing span of more than 15 metres.

But Katsufumi Sato, a Japanese scientist, who collected data from five large birds including the world's biggest, the wandering albatross, has calculated that it was physically impossible for them to stay aloft.

The University of Tokyo professor claims that the largest animal capable of soaring across the sky unaided could have weighed no more than 40kg (88lbs) or the size of a labrador dog.

Prof Soto, who reported his findings in New Scientist magazine, travelled to the Crozet Islands - halfway between Madagascar and Antarctica - and attached accelerometers, devices the size of AA batteries which measure thrust, to the wings of 28 birds from the five species including the albatross which is a soarer like the pterosaurs were thought to be.

Unlike turkeys or bustards, whose short wings are good for quick take-off but not for soaring, these larger birds fly long distances using dynamic soaring - they ride changing wind currents without moving their wings.

But when the wind dies down, or blows at a constant speed, they have to flap or be pulled down by air resistance and gravity.

The maximum speed a bird can flap is limited by its muscle strength and decreases for heavier species with longer wings.

Prof Sato says animals heavier than 40kg would not be able to flap fast enough to stay aloft. This would explain why the wandering albatross weighs only 22 kg (46lbs).

A bird weighing too close to 40kg would be incredible unstable and "would not have a safety margin to fly in bad weather", he added."

Pterodactyls were too heavy to fly, scientist claims

Pop science article
Pterodactyl, Pteranodon & Other Flying 'Dinosaurs'
Ask yourself how a bumblebee flies.

Do you deny that they exist?
 
"god" Must have created a creature with Giant Wings that couldn't fly.. and would also then be unwieldly and and undefendable on the ground.
RIGHT JAMES?
Yet they lived for 100 million years!
Hmm

So much here. Funny, hilarious and common sense all rolled into one.

Not only lived but during the time of speed demon raptors and other meat eaters.
Thanks
It was just funny to see a creationist (and I've seen hundreds on mbs) suggest "UNintelligent Design".
He was trying to throw doubt on science/evo, but didn't realize the irony/the far worse damage he was doing to HIS own theory: 'gods' design/creationism.
`
 
It's popular science to claim birds are dinosaurs, but it has nothing to do with this creature.

aHR0cDovL3d3dy5saXZlc2NpZW5jZS5jb20vaW1hZ2VzL2kvMDAwLzAzNC81NDUvaTAyL1B0ZXJhbm9kb24tMTIxMjEwLmpwZz8xMzU1NTIxMTYy


These are giant flying reptiles. How did these giant reptiles ever get off the ground? Also, there are claims people have seen them, so questions remain if they are extinct.

"The 'dinosaur' popularly known as a pterodactyl is actually called a reptile called a pterosaur, which is Greek for flying lizard.

It existed alongside the dinosaurs between 251 and 65 million years ago, and were thought to be the biggest creatures to ever take to the air.

The fossilised remains of one example had a wing span of more than 15 metres.

But Katsufumi Sato, a Japanese scientist, who collected data from five large birds including the world's biggest, the wandering albatross, has calculated that it was physically impossible for them to stay aloft.

The University of Tokyo professor claims that the largest animal capable of soaring across the sky unaided could have weighed no more than 40kg (88lbs) or the size of a labrador dog.

Prof Soto, who reported his findings in New Scientist magazine, travelled to the Crozet Islands - halfway between Madagascar and Antarctica - and attached accelerometers, devices the size of AA batteries which measure thrust, to the wings of 28 birds from the five species including the albatross which is a soarer like the pterosaurs were thought to be.

Unlike turkeys or bustards, whose short wings are good for quick take-off but not for soaring, these larger birds fly long distances using dynamic soaring - they ride changing wind currents without moving their wings.

But when the wind dies down, or blows at a constant speed, they have to flap or be pulled down by air resistance and gravity.

The maximum speed a bird can flap is limited by its muscle strength and decreases for heavier species with longer wings.

Prof Sato says animals heavier than 40kg would not be able to flap fast enough to stay aloft. This would explain why the wandering albatross weighs only 22 kg (46lbs).

A bird weighing too close to 40kg would be incredible unstable and "would not have a safety margin to fly in bad weather", he added."

Pterodactyls were too heavy to fly, scientist claims

Pop science article
Pterodactyl, Pteranodon & Other Flying 'Dinosaurs'
Ask yourself how a bumblebee flies.

Do you deny that they exist?

Their anatomy is different, but what can we deduce from your bumblebee? A bumblebee has to flap their wings very fast. What does it imply? That they warm blooded insects and we find they are. A large pterosaur would have to flap their wings fast, too, to get the necessary lift to fly. They were probably warm blooded.
 
"god" Must have created a creature with Giant Wings that couldn't fly.. and would also then be unwieldly and and undefendable on the ground.
RIGHT JAMES?
Yet they lived for 100 million years!
Hmm

So much here. Funny, hilarious and common sense all rolled into one.

Not only lived but during the time of speed demon raptors and other meat eaters.
Thanks
It was just funny to see a creationist (and I've seen hundreds on mbs) suggest "UNintelligent Design".
He was trying to throw doubt on science/evo, but didn't realize the irony/the far worse damage he was doing to HIS own theory: 'gods' design/creationism.
`

We're discussing how a giant pterosaur could fly. Second, is how animals and humans grew so large. WinterBorn is the only one who presents a good argument that it glided and not flew. However, that doesn't follow microevolution. It would've developed flight capabilities. You can't even explain how the pterosaur walked, so Jesus will send you to the lake of fire ha ha. I suppose that's what you wanted to hear in a science discussion.
 
"god" Must have created a creature with Giant Wings that couldn't fly.. and would also then be unwieldly and and undefendable on the ground.
RIGHT JAMES?
Yet they lived for 100 million years!
Hmm

So much here. Funny, hilarious and common sense all rolled into one.

Not only lived but during the time of speed demon raptors and other meat eaters.
Thanks
It was just funny to see a creationist (and I've seen hundreds on mbs) suggest "UNintelligent Design".
He was trying to throw doubt on science/evo, but didn't realize the irony/the far worse damage he was doing to HIS own theory: 'gods' design/creationism.
`

harmonica couldn't figure it out, but maybe you can. Let's look at how a bat walks since pterosaurs could behave similar. We established that it flies like a large bird, but it's not a bird. How does it walk?
 

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