How come...

[mash107]

Hoover acted too little and too late and we saw where that got us.

Hoover acted in the wrong places, and that caused a depression.

He should've been laissez-faire, but his hands on approach caused skyrocketing unemployment. You simply can't fix wages high during a deflationary period and expect unemployment not to skyrocket.

 

[Ravi]

I am not comfortable with all the money being spent to bail out the financial industry, but I can't really see another way out of the mess. To just let it all go to hell seems insane. It is a big gamble, but with any luck it will pay off for all of us.

It just make no senses to me that Bush, while president, oversaw the most outrageous spending and expansion of government until that time...and without any actual need to do so. There was no populist back lash. If what Obama is doing doesn't work I'll have no problem condemning him...but then again I've never been a huge fan of his. I think that he's only been president for two months and these tea parties started after his first month...and all that leads me to believe that many people on the right are more upset that the Democrats are in power than any concrete issue.

Why is it insane to let a failing company fail? You think if Citi, BoA, and the rest go bankrupt that there will never be banks again or something? When a business dies, it creates an opportunity for a new one to take its place. If Citi et al are being run too poorly to succeed, why bail them out? Why not let a smaller cap bank take its place and start fresh?

You've been persuaded into believing that the bailouts are necessary, when there's zero proof they are. The fear mongering worked on you just like the fear mongering from Bush worked on HIS base.

When human beings are freightened out of their minds, they can be persuaded to do just about anything if they believe it will make them safe.

hmmmm? I don't feel frightened nor was I persuaded of something. Just because you're an empty-headed dillhole doesn't mean I am.

I don't think you realize how many banks and companies are tied up in this mess.

 

[DiveCon]

I am not comfortable with all the money being spent to bail out the financial industry, but I can't really see another way out of the mess. To just let it all go to hell seems insane. It is a big gamble, but with any luck it will pay off for all of us.

It just make no senses to me that Bush, while president, oversaw the most outrageous spending and expansion of government until that time...and without any actual need to do so. There was no populist back lash. If what Obama is doing doesn't work I'll have no problem condemning him...but then again I've never been a huge fan of his. I think that he's only been president for two months and these tea parties started after his first month...and all that leads me to believe that many people on the right are more upset that the Democrats are in power than any concrete issue.

Why is it insane to let a failing company fail? You think if Citi, BoA, and the rest go bankrupt that there will never be banks again or something? When a business dies, it creates an opportunity for a new one to take its place. If Citi et al are being run too poorly to succeed, why bail them out? Why not let a smaller cap bank take its place and start fresh?

You've been persuaded into believing that the bailouts are necessary, when there's zero proof they are. The fear mongering worked on you just like the fear mongering from Bush worked on HIS base.

When human beings are freightened out of their minds, they can be persuaded to do just about anything if they believe it will make them safe.

hmmmm? I don't feel frightened nor was I persuaded of something. Just because you're an empty-headed dillhole doesn't mean I am.

I don't think you realize how many banks and companies are tied up in this mess.

uh, he isnt, you are

 

[Paulie]

I am not comfortable with all the money being spent to bail out the financial industry, but I can't really see another way out of the mess. To just let it all go to hell seems insane. It is a big gamble, but with any luck it will pay off for all of us.

It just make no senses to me that Bush, while president, oversaw the most outrageous spending and expansion of government until that time...and without any actual need to do so. There was no populist back lash. If what Obama is doing doesn't work I'll have no problem condemning him...but then again I've never been a huge fan of his. I think that he's only been president for two months and these tea parties started after his first month...and all that leads me to believe that many people on the right are more upset that the Democrats are in power than any concrete issue.

Why is it insane to let a failing company fail? You think if Citi, BoA, and the rest go bankrupt that there will never be banks again or something? When a business dies, it creates an opportunity for a new one to take its place. If Citi et al are being run too poorly to succeed, why bail them out? Why not let a smaller cap bank take its place and start fresh?

You've been persuaded into believing that the bailouts are necessary, when there's zero proof they are. The fear mongering worked on you just like the fear mongering from Bush worked on HIS base.

When human beings are freightened out of their minds, they can be persuaded to do just about anything if they believe it will make them safe.

hmmmm? I don't feel frightened nor was I persuaded of something. Just because you're an empty-headed dillhole doesn't mean I am.

I don't think you realize how many banks and companies are tied up in this mess.

If you weren't freightened by the potential consequences of doing nothing, you wouldn't accept any and every bailout that's been shoved into our pee holes. The media reported almost universally that doing nothing would cause a meltdown. You even accepted the Bush admin's bailouts, and as partisan left as you are that SAYS something.

Rav, regardless of how many banks are "tied up" in this mess, it still doesn't change the fact that the "too big to fail" banks don't need to be bailed out, their fate simply needs to be decided by the market.

I don't care if it's MILLIONS of banks, if their balance sheets are full of CRAP, then FUCK EM. They took the risk as a business, and they should fail as a business if it comes to that.

There are plenty of banks that AREN'T up their necks in horse shit. Those banks will emerge in the place of the banks that fail. The economy will stay stagnant or move slowly while we wait for the new banks to establish themselves in the broader market, and many of the small cap banks will grow into big cap banks eventually. It isn't the god damn end of the world, Rav.

We're watching fat cat wall street gangsters getting bailed out at our expense, and that's pretty much the only thing that's happening, and you're falling for it. That speaks volumes to the irony of your empty headed comment.

 

[Ravi]

Why is it insane to let a failing company fail? You think if Citi, BoA, and the rest go bankrupt that there will never be banks again or something? When a business dies, it creates an opportunity for a new one to take its place. If Citi et al are being run too poorly to succeed, why bail them out? Why not let a smaller cap bank take its place and start fresh?

You've been persuaded into believing that the bailouts are necessary, when there's zero proof they are. The fear mongering worked on you just like the fear mongering from Bush worked on HIS base.

When human beings are freightened out of their minds, they can be persuaded to do just about anything if they believe it will make them safe.

hmmmm? I don't feel frightened nor was I persuaded of something. Just because you're an empty-headed dillhole doesn't mean I am.

I don't think you realize how many banks and companies are tied up in this mess.

If you weren't freightened by the potential consequences of doing nothing, you wouldn't accept any and every bailout that's been shoved into our pee holes. The media reported almost universally that doing nothing would cause a meltdown. You even accepted the Bush admin's bailouts, and as partisan left as you are that SAYS something.

Rav, regardless of how many banks are "tied up" in this mess, it still doesn't change the fact that the "too big to fail" banks don't need to be bailed out, their fate simply needs to be decided by the market.

I don't care if it's MILLIONS of banks, if their balance sheets are full of CRAP, then FUCK EM. They took the risk as a business, and they should fail as a business if it comes to that.

There are plenty of banks that AREN'T up their necks in horse shit. Those banks will emerge in the place of the banks that fail. The economy will stay stagnant or move slowly while we wait for the new banks to establish themselves in the broader market, and many of the small cap banks will grow into big cap banks eventually. It isn't the god damn end of the world, Rav.

We're watching fat cat wall street gangsters getting bailed out at our expense, and that's pretty much the only thing that's happening, and you're falling for it. That speaks volumes to the irony of your empty headed comment.

No, it wouldn't be the end of the world but it would be the end of a decent economy for a very long time. SOME banks aren't up to their necks in anything...but most banks and insurance companies and large corporations and investors are intertwined with the global economy. It isn't fright that makes me look at things realistically, it's common sense. I'd rather things stay like they are so I can continue to enjoy the perks of being an American...but I don't FEAR losing the perks, I just would rather not.

The only person in this thread that operates on fear is dcon.

 

[Paulie]

Well it's just another reason why the globalization of the world economies was a ridiculous idea.

But "most"? I'm not quite sure it's ingenuous to say that "most" of those kinds of companies are exposed to the risk, especially to the point that multiple trillions of dollars need to be thrown at it.

I don't care if AIG goes bankrupt. I don't care if Citi or BoA go bankrupt. Why do you?

 

[DiveCon]

Well it's just another reason why the globalization of the world economies was a ridiculous idea.

But "most"? I'm not quite sure it's ingenuous to say that "most" of those kinds of companies are exposed to the risk, especially to the point that multiple trillions of dollars need to be thrown at it.

I don't care if AIG goes bankrupt. I don't care if Citi or BoA go bankrupt. Why do you?

thats something we can agree on
i dont give a rats ass what company goes bankrupt
thats up to how they run their business
and if they cant run it well enough to STAY in business, then they SHOULD go out of business

 

[Paulie]

Well it's just another reason why the globalization of the world economies was a ridiculous idea.

But "most"? I'm not quite sure it's ingenuous to say that "most" of those kinds of companies are exposed to the risk, especially to the point that multiple trillions of dollars need to be thrown at it.

I don't care if AIG goes bankrupt. I don't care if Citi or BoA go bankrupt. Why do you?

thats something we can agree on
i dont give a rats ass what company goes bankrupt
thats up to how they run their business
and if they cant run it well enough to STAY in business, then they SHOULD go out of business

We're the most enterprising country on earth. The entrepreneurship here is top notch. We can lose the AIG's and the Citi's of the world and we'll be ok.

 

[Ravi]

Well it's just another reason why the globalization of the world economies was a ridiculous idea.

But "most"? I'm not quite sure it's ingenuous to say that "most" of those kinds of companies are exposed to the risk, especially to the point that multiple trillions of dollars need to be thrown at it.

I don't care if AIG goes bankrupt. I don't care if Citi or BoA go bankrupt. Why do you?

Because, I do think most everyone is tied to them somehow...like the Kevin Bacon game.

And I don't disagree with you on globalization but it was inevitable.

But damn it, Pauli...you've done it again. You've totally gone off topic. Though you do make me realize something...a lot of the fear on the right wing side is fear of communism...and IMO they are being played for fools by idiots like Rush and Glenn Beck and THAT is why they all have their tea parties.

 

[Paulie]

But you file bankruptcy, you restructure your debt, and you sit and wait until the private sector decides your assets are worth more than a freshly wiped-with piece of toilet paper. Just like equities and commodities rise and fall in price, so too does housing.

At some point, when people have saved and de-leveraged enough, they will start to buy houses again. When they do, those assets will become valuable and the mega corps who are holding them will recoup their current losses.

You've already admitted you don't think it's an end of the world scenario, so why shouldn't we man up and handle our business? We enjoyed the boom, why shouldn't we sweat out the bust? We could learn a thing or three from it. Not now, though. All we learned now is that extreme risk that leads to failure will inevitably be REWARDED

Next time your daughter goes out and does something stupid, make sure you buy her a car for her troubles

 

[DiveCon]

But you file bankruptcy, you restructure your debt, and you sit and wait until the private sector decides your assets are worth more than a freshly wiped-with piece of toilet paper. Just like equities and commodities rise and fall in price, so too does housing.

At some point, when people have saved and de-leveraged enough, they will start to buy houses again. When they do, those assets will become valuable and the mega corps who are holding them will recoup their current losses.

You've already admitted you don't think it's an end of the world scenario, so why shouldn't we man up and handle our business? We enjoyed the boom, why shouldn't we sweat out the bust? We could learn a thing or three from it. Not now, though. All we learned now is that extreme risk that leads to failure will inevitably be REWARDED

Next time your daughter goes out and does something stupid, make sure you buy her a car for her troubles

ravi just doesnt get it
her partisan blinders get in the way
and her last posts shows just how bad it is

 

[Ravi]

Filing for bankruptcy is being responsible for your debts? Jebus, Pauli.

btw, your analogy is retarded. My daughter doing something stupid doesn't affect the neighborhood...it only affects her.

 

[KittenKoder]

Filing for bankruptcy is being responsible for your debts? Jebus, Pauli.

btw, your analogy is retarded. My daughter doing something stupid doesn't affect the neighborhood...it only affects her.

Thus is why it can only be filed once.

 

[DiveCon]

Filing for bankruptcy is being responsible for your debts? Jebus, Pauli.

btw, your analogy is retarded. My daughter doing something stupid doesn't affect the neighborhood...it only affects her.

that would depend on what your daughter actually did, now wouldnt it

 

[Paulie]

Filing for bankruptcy is being responsible for your debts? Jebus, Pauli.

btw, your analogy is retarded. My daughter doing something stupid doesn't affect the neighborhood...it only affects her.

Chapter 11 bankruptcy is a responsible move, Rav. It reorganizes the company's debt, and assets are held until debts are repaid over time in a new structured agreement. It's a better step than just liquidating and going out of business. It's CERTAINLY better than just taking a couple trillion and handing it over to them on the backs of our grandkids.

And the analogy isn't retarded, it's spot on. If she fucks up because of a stupid decision, she should be rewarded with a car. It's the least you could do for her in the face of the 50-some thousand dollars of yours and her tax money that's been involuntarily offered to the highly inept sector of corporate America in the last 6 months.

It'll teach her a good hard lesson, just like those CEO's.