How come there is no national disgust in the murder of innocents by our Gov?

[Publius1787]

This country needs to remove itself immediately from Afghanistan, that's the biggest thing. What is happening to our nation right now and specifically our economy is what war with Afghanistan historically does to a country. They don't win wars there with body counts, they win wars there through societal attrition because they're a thousands of year old guerrilla fighting people and because it's so expensive to fight a war there. People want to give credit to Reagan for ending the Cold War (in between giving weapons to terrorists and being the first Republican to introduce brilliant trickle down economics) but the real reason the USSR dissolved is they destroyed their economy and society with an endless pointless war in Afghanistan that virtually parallels our conflict there. Fuck the violence aspect of our conflicts, the Afghanistan War is a cancer inside America.

You'd think each generation would learn from the last.

​

Veitnam was never about Vietnamese independence. It was about whether the USSR/China influence would expand or US influence would expand. Ergo, those who are aginst U.S. involvement are for Communist involvment. Thus, no matter how hard you try to deamnize our actions in Vietnam, no matter how much you try to conclude that the Vietnamese people would have been better without us, history is absolutly clear. For those who claim to be for the welfare of the Vietnamese people in their efforts to deamonize the US, Vietnam suffered far more under Communism than they ever did under the entirity of the War; a trend that continues today. Indeed, it was North Vietnam that invaded the south. The reason why the leftists wanted us to pull out was because they hated capitalism, not because they wanted a free Vietnam. Thank you once again for proving me correct.​

 

[Mr. Shaman]

I really don't get it. I see people bickering day in and day out about the Fiscal Cliff or Sandy Hook or how Obama blows or how Romney blows or what have you, but I almost never see anyone complain about how we murder innocent children and women and men all the time with bombs in other countries. In fact, I see people CONSTANTLY trying to defend the very politicians who charter these horrendous acts of violence.

Can't we all at least agree that an innocent human life is more important than the D or the R next to some guys name on the TV? Let's start promoting freedom for everyone.

You’ll have to take that up with the neo-cons, advocates of starting illegal wars.

Enough with your blind Zombie worship. Barack Obama has ordered drones which have killed countless to include women and children.. Everyone is beyond tired of the PARTISAN HACKS.

Ya' (finally) recovered from.....

....YOUR LAST ASS-KICKIN'....

.....did ya'???

 

[Politico]

Americans are such an inherently violent people (look at our history) and we've become so desensitized and comfortable with war that burned up brown bodies doesn't even register in our collective consciousness anymore. Also, we've been in continuous war for nearly eleven years now so Americans really don't care anymore.

Also, after the flap of Bush propaganda during the initial phases of shock and awe in the Iraqi war (embedded media? yeah that's fucking impartial) our nation's conflicts have been completely wiped out of our media. It is actually shocking how little you hear or see about our conflicts in the middle east aside from pretty government approved photo. And the really shocking thing is we all know Afghanistan has a major darkside to it, yet again we rarely ever hear about the dark side of that conflict. The government learned their lessons very well after Vietnam of allowing very little real information to get out of their war zones and keeping it as far away as possible from the American public.

Wow all that to take a shot at Bush really?

Over in the middle east they cut people's heads off for disagreeing with them. They set fire to their cities at the drop of a hat. Yeah we're violent.

 

[Publius1787]

It's brilliant how this war worked out for the neo-conservatives and those that profit from war in this country. We were exiting a golden age of beautiful peace and prosperity since the end of the Cold War and America in some views was probably starting to get soft. Also with the type of enemy that we've been cultivated to believe in this is a war that could potentially last forever unlike the Russians who stopped being the boogeyman when they run out of money.

Although 90% of Afghanistans have never heard of the 9/11 tragedy and have no idea why Americans are at war in their lands. To them we're just another foreign face in a centuries' old progression of invaders.

Being that opium is illegal, the countries that produce it have a near monopoly. Afghanistan is that monopoly. So what is the result? Terrorists have a source of revenue to wage attacks against the west. If we leave Afghnistan with this source of funding in tact we will no doubt be facing an ever well financed enemy in the future.

 

[francoHFW]

Compared with tens (hundreds?) of thousands of Iraqi civilians killed in that total BS war, this is not so bad- they ARE friends and relatives of terrorists. And we are getting out of THIS hopelessly handled Pub war too.

 

[OKTexas]

Agreed. This isn't war though, we haven't declared war on all the places we bomb nor has it been declared on us by their government. This is murder in the guise of security. Murder for profit likely.

Grow up man, terrorist don't operate under a national flag or are they contained within certain boarders. The first rule of war is people die and not always only the people we want to die, but not pursuing the bad guys and allowing them to operate freely have proven to be more deadly than not.

I might be able to be talked into why the Afghanistan war was necessary. This country has historically acted decisively and destructively against pirates/terrorists. And I've reached an age where I think it was necessary to destroy a small band of extremists who wielded political influence there. However I don't think there's a fair argument for why the Iraqi War was necessary. I also think the Afghanistan war was handled so unbelievably poorly by the Bush Administration and there is so much corruption and dubious history behind our middle east adventures that I believe we the American people were severely lied to on nearly a treasonous level. I'd also like to point out under Obama a 25 cent bullet did what a 4 trillion dollar war under Bush could not.

Thanks for the laugh, I really needed that. The over simplification of your statement has to be record for understatement and totally ignoring the facts.

Lets look at the facts that allowed that 25 cent bullet to be fired.
1. Did the soldiers involved in the raid on OBL not come from an established base in Afghanistan? I wonder how that little sucker got there?
2. The equipment used was in Afghanistan, as was the support personnel for that equipment. I wonder how they got there?
3. We lost a helicopter costing many millions of dollars to have the ability to fire that 25 cent bullet, that I think your counting against Bush's 4 trillion dollar war.

So you want to tell me again how your dear leader did all this with a 25 cent bullet?

 

[LibertyLemming]

It's brilliant how this war worked out for the neo-conservatives and those that profit from war in this country. We were exiting a golden age of beautiful peace and prosperity since the end of the Cold War and America in some views was probably starting to get soft. Also with the type of enemy that we've been cultivated to believe in this is a war that could potentially last forever unlike the Russians who stopped being the boogeyman when they run out of money.

Although 90% of Afghanistans have never heard of the 9/11 tragedy and have no idea why Americans are at war in their lands. To them we're just another foreign face in a centuries' old progression of invaders.

Being that opium is illegal, the countries that produce it have a near monopoly. Afghanistan is that monopoly. So what is the result? Terrorists have a source of revenue to wage attacks against the west. If we leave Afghnistan with this source of funding in tact we will no doubt be facing an ever well financed enemy in the future.

Or we won't have an enemy because we aren't going around fucking with everyone. You ever notice how countries that dont pester others don't get attacked

 

[Mr. Shaman]

The people we are dropping the bombs on or targeting are by and large terrorist or supporters of them these people don't wear uniforms that distinguish them from innocent civilians and for the most part operate in countries that don't have a strong central government, police, military, or intelligence units to find them and deal with them.

You Tories/"conservatives" always DID get bitten-in-the-ass, by that kind o' oversight!!

 

[Publius1787]

Compared with tens (hundreds?) of thousands of Iraqi civilians killed in that total BS war, this is not so bad- they ARE friends and relatives of terrorists. And we are getting out of THIS hopelessly handled Pub war too.

Funny, I was there and I don't remember it being hoplessly handled. I do, however, remember the Democrats threatining/VOTING to pull funding so the war would fail on Bush's watch. Of course, this gave the terrorists hope and resulted in increased attacks against me and my fellow Marines. Funny how they didn't do the same to Obama huh?

 

[BallsBrunswick]

It's brilliant how this war worked out for the neo-conservatives and those that profit from war in this country. We were exiting a golden age of beautiful peace and prosperity since the end of the Cold War and America in some views was probably starting to get soft. Also with the type of enemy that we've been cultivated to believe in this is a war that could potentially last forever unlike the Russians who stopped being the boogeyman when they run out of money.

Although 90% of Afghanistans have never heard of the 9/11 tragedy and have no idea why Americans are at war in their lands. To them we're just another foreign face in a centuries' old progression of invaders.

Being that opium is illegal, the countries that produce it have a near monopoly. Afghanistan is that monopoly. So what is the result? Terrorists have a source of revenue to wage attacks against the west. If we leave Afghnistan with this source of funding in tact we will no doubt be facing an ever well financed enemy in the future.

Which is why the taliban was shutting down all the opium fields because of their religious convictions and shutting off the majority of the world's poppy and heroin supply. Thankfully though since the United States has invaded Afghanistan the world's heroin trade is booming.

 

[Publius1787]

It's brilliant how this war worked out for the neo-conservatives and those that profit from war in this country. We were exiting a golden age of beautiful peace and prosperity since the end of the Cold War and America in some views was probably starting to get soft. Also with the type of enemy that we've been cultivated to believe in this is a war that could potentially last forever unlike the Russians who stopped being the boogeyman when they run out of money.

Although 90% of Afghanistans have never heard of the 9/11 tragedy and have no idea why Americans are at war in their lands. To them we're just another foreign face in a centuries' old progression of invaders.

Being that opium is illegal, the countries that produce it have a near monopoly. Afghanistan is that monopoly. So what is the result? Terrorists have a source of revenue to wage attacks against the west. If we leave Afghnistan with this source of funding in tact we will no doubt be facing an ever well financed enemy in the future.

Or we won't have an enemy because we aren't going around fucking with everyone. You ever notice how countries that dont pester others don't get attacked

You want us out? Then who will fill the vaccume?

 

[Publius1787]

It's brilliant how this war worked out for the neo-conservatives and those that profit from war in this country. We were exiting a golden age of beautiful peace and prosperity since the end of the Cold War and America in some views was probably starting to get soft. Also with the type of enemy that we've been cultivated to believe in this is a war that could potentially last forever unlike the Russians who stopped being the boogeyman when they run out of money.

Although 90% of Afghanistans have never heard of the 9/11 tragedy and have no idea why Americans are at war in their lands. To them we're just another foreign face in a centuries' old progression of invaders.

Being that opium is illegal, the countries that produce it have a near monopoly. Afghanistan is that monopoly. So what is the result? Terrorists have a source of revenue to wage attacks against the west. If we leave Afghnistan with this source of funding in tact we will no doubt be facing an ever well financed enemy in the future.

Which is why the taliban was shutting down all the opium fields because of their religious convictions and shutting off the majority of the world's poppy and heroin supply. Thankfully though since the United States has invaded Afghanistan the world's heroin trade is booming.

Taliban's Cash Flow Grows From Heroin Trade, Crime : NPR

 

[Mr. Shaman]

This country needs to remove itself immediately from Afghanistan, that's the biggest thing. What is happening to our nation right now and specifically our economy is what war with Afghanistan historically does to a country. They don't win wars there with body counts, they win wars there through societal attrition because they're a thousands of year old guerrilla fighting people and because it's so expensive to fight a war there. People want to give credit to Reagan for ending the Cold War (in between giving weapons to terrorists and being the first Republican to introduce brilliant trickle down economics) but the real reason the USSR dissolved is they destroyed their economy and society with an endless pointless war in Afghanistan that virtually parallels our conflict there. Fuck the violence aspect of our conflicts, the Afghanistan War is a cancer inside America.

You'd think each generation would learn from the last.

​

Veitnam was never about Vietnamese independence. It was about whether the USSR/China influence would expand or US influence would expand.​

.....At least, that was....​

....Chuck de Gaulle's excuse.....​

"Ho Chi Minh met with the U.S. operative, Major Patti, and they agreed on joint anti-Japanese actions. The U.S. dropped supplies behind the lines to Ho Chi Minh and the Viet Minh helped Americans downed behind Japanese lines. The first American advisors helped train, equip and arm the Viet Minh. In 1945, the Democratic Republic of Vietnam was formed with Ho Chi Minh as the first President. American planes flew over Hanoi in celebration of the founding. The Vietnamese Declaration of Independence echoed that of the U.S.: "All men are created equal. They are endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights, among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness...This immortal statement is extracted from the Declaration of Independence of the United States of America in 1776. Understood in the broader sense this means: All people on earth are born equal. Every person has the right to live, to be happy, and free.

Ho Chi Minh asked the Americans to honor their commitment to independence, citing the Atlantic Charter and the U.N. Charter on self-determination. However, by the end of the war, the U.S. government had begun to redirect its foreign policy from the wartime goal of the liberation of all occupied countries and colonies to the postwar anti-communist crusade, which became the Cold War. In France, where communists had led the resistance to the Nazi occupation, American policy supported General Charles de Gaulle and his anti-communist "Free French." De Gaulle aimed to restore the glory of France, which meant the return of all former French colonies. U.S. relations with the Vietnamese turned sour. President Truman refused to answer letters or cables from Ho. Instead, the U.S. began to ship military aid to the French forces in Indochina."

We FUCKED the Vietnamese!!!!​

 

[BallsBrunswick]

Grow up man, terrorist don't operate under a national flag or are they contained within certain boarders. The first rule of war is people die and not always only the people we want to die, but not pursuing the bad guys and allowing them to operate freely have proven to be more deadly than not.

I might be able to be talked into why the Afghanistan war was necessary. This country has historically acted decisively and destructively against pirates/terrorists. And I've reached an age where I think it was necessary to destroy a small band of extremists who wielded political influence there. However I don't think there's a fair argument for why the Iraqi War was necessary. I also think the Afghanistan war was handled so unbelievably poorly by the Bush Administration and there is so much corruption and dubious history behind our middle east adventures that I believe we the American people were severely lied to on nearly a treasonous level. I'd also like to point out under Obama a 25 cent bullet did what a 4 trillion dollar war under Bush could not.

Thanks for the laugh, I really needed that. The over simplification of your statement has to be record for understatement and totally ignoring the facts.

Lets look at the facts that allowed that 25 cent bullet to be fired.
1. Did the soldiers involved in the raid on OBL not come from an established base in Afghanistan? I wonder how that little sucker got there?
2. The equipment used was in Afghanistan, as was the support personnel for that equipment. I wonder how they got there?
3. We lost a helicopter costing many millions of dollars to have the ability to fire that 25 cent bullet, that I think your counting against Bush's 4 trillion dollar war.

So you want to tell me again how your dear leader did all this with a 25 cent bullet?

1. So you're saying the American military isn't able to get a special forces team into any part of the world? It was only because of a nearly decade long pointless war that we were able to execute such an efficient operation?

2. Again, it took a nearly decade long pointless war in Afghanistan to get such a precise strike in Pakistan?

3. Okay, I'll give you the helicopter. Still the entire cost of that operation and training against the entire cost of the Iraqi and Afghanistan war? Especially since your fellow Texan said the man responsible for 9/11 wasn't a priority in his middle east strategy?

Your point is retarded and you said that just because you're bitter as evidenced by your Dear Leader comment. By the way, do you notice only bitter conservatives use that phrase? But still the 4 trillion dollar Bush Wars were sold to us on needing to get Osama and his cohorts and that was accomplished by a 25 cent bullet approved by Obama who bet his Presidential future on it and won.

 

[francoHFW]

Compared with tens (hundreds?) of thousands of Iraqi civilians killed in that total BS war, this is not so bad- they ARE friends and relatives of terrorists. And we are getting out of THIS hopelessly handled Pub war too.

Funny, I was there and I don't remember it being hoplessly handled. I do, however, remember the Democrats threatining/VOTING to pull funding so the war would fail on Bush's watch. Of course, this gave the terrorists hope and resulted in increased attacks against me and my fellow Marines. Funny how they didn't do the same to Obama huh?

Afgan War was WON back in 2002, OBL was allowed to escape, then victory was wasted on a wild goose chase on Iraq. Stupidest Wars ever. TY for your service, certainly not the military's fault.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The national disgust is aimed at the libertarians and ultra rights who fail to recognzie we are at war, and the President is protecting all of us.

I really don't get it. I see people bickering day in and day out about the Fiscal Cliff or Sandy Hook or how Obama blows or how Romney blows or what have you, but I almost never see anyone complain about how we murder innocent children and women and men all the time with bombs in other countries. In fact, I see people CONSTANTLY trying to defend the very politicians who charter these horrendous acts of violence.

Can't we all at least agree that an innocent human life is more important than the D or the R next to some guys name on the TV? Let's start promoting freedom for everyone.

 

[BallsBrunswick]

Being that opium is illegal, the countries that produce it have a near monopoly. Afghanistan is that monopoly. So what is the result? Terrorists have a source of revenue to wage attacks against the west. If we leave Afghnistan with this source of funding in tact we will no doubt be facing an ever well financed enemy in the future.

Which is why the taliban was shutting down all the opium fields because of their religious convictions and shutting off the majority of the world's poppy and heroin supply. Thankfully though since the United States has invaded Afghanistan the world's heroin trade is booming.

Taliban's Cash Flow Grows From Heroin Trade, Crime : NPR

Yeah now to fund their war against America but before that.

During the Taliban rule, Afghanistan saw a bumper opium crop of 4,500 metric tons in 1999,.[15] However, in July 2000, Taliban leader Mullah Mohammed Omar, collaborating with the United Nations to eradicate heroin production in Afghanistan, declared that growing poppies was un-Islamic, resulting in one of the world's most successful anti-drug campaigns. As a result of this ban, opium poppy cultivation was reduced by 91% from the previous year's estimate of 82,172 hectares. The ban was so effective that Helmand Province, which had accounted for more than half of this area, recorded no poppy cultivation during the 2001 season.[16][17] The Bush administration paid a 43 million dollar 'eradication' reward payment to the Taliban in 2001.[13]

Opium production in Afghanistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Publius1787]

You'd think each generation would learn from the last.

​

Veitnam was never about Vietnamese independence. It was about whether the USSR/China influence would expand or US influence would expand.​

.....At least, that was....​

....Chuck de Gaulle's excuse.....​

"Ho Chi Minh met with the U.S. operative, Major Patti, and they agreed on joint anti-Japanese actions. The U.S. dropped supplies behind the lines to Ho Chi Minh and the Viet Minh helped Americans downed behind Japanese lines. The first American advisors helped train, equip and arm the Viet Minh. In 1945, the Democratic Republic of Vietnam was formed with Ho Chi Minh as the first President. American planes flew over Hanoi in celebration of the founding. The Vietnamese Declaration of Independence echoed that of the U.S.: "All men are created equal. They are endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights, among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness...This immortal statement is extracted from the Declaration of Independence of the United States of America in 1776. Understood in the broader sense this means: All people on earth are born equal. Every person has the right to live, to be happy, and free.

Ho Chi Minh asked the Americans to honor their commitment to independence, citing the Atlantic Charter and the U.N. Charter on self-determination. However, by the end of the war, the U.S. government had begun to redirect its foreign policy from the wartime goal of the liberation of all occupied countries and colonies to the postwar anti-communist crusade, which became the Cold War. In France, where communists had led the resistance to the Nazi occupation, American policy supported General Charles de Gaulle and his anti-communist "Free French." De Gaulle aimed to restore the glory of France, which meant the return of all former French colonies. U.S. relations with the Vietnamese turned sour. President Truman refused to answer letters or cables from Ho. Instead, the U.S. began to ship military aid to the French forces in Indochina."

We FUCKED the Vietnamese!!!!​

So your problem was that we impeded Communism? And Ho Chi Minh? Who elected that guy as president of Vietnam? Thats right, he just assumed power with his Vanguard Commies who murdered anyone who had land or was middle class/higher. When Uncle Ho ripped off our Declaration of Indepedence we all should remember that our Declaration was grounded in the Lockeian principle of self ownership. Comminism disavows self ownership for collective welfare. Ho was wheelin and dealin with the Soviets to supply him with weaponry and after we pulled out the North didnt give a rats ass about self determination! You see, they had promised the South as well as the NLF that they would be able to set up a provisional government and then negotiate a unification. The Northern unelected commies, however, just took the place over and there has not been a self determination in the History of "independent" Vietnam. Welcom to reality my friend!

And after all of that they helped Pol Pot come to power who killed 1/4th of the Cambodian people.​

 

[impalero]

As a Veteran of the Iraqi war, I am thankful I made it out alive after invading a country that never did any harm to us. If anyone invaded my home or country, they would be getting a belly full of lead.

I was quite the patriotic person then believing I was doing it to serve my country, when it was really all about protecting our oil interests, the petro dollar and making defense contractors richer.

 

[Publius1787]

As a Veteran of the Iraqi war, I am thankful I made it out alive after invading a country that never did any harm to us. If anyone invaded my home or country, they would be getting a belly full of lead.

I was quite the patriotic person then believing I was doing it to serve my country, when it was really all about protecting our oil interests, the petro dollar and making defense contractors richer.

You were in Iraq? Really? What is your MOS? What Service were you in? Where were you in Iraq?