how can someone be against school vouchers?

[theDoctorisIn]

I having been wondering about school vouchers for a bit and started to read up on it. I checked wikipedia first ( School voucher - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ) and then went on to some other sites, but they weren't that helpful.

To me vouchers seems like the best solution from an education and government spending standard. its no secret that if everyone had to pay for their kids education that all kids wouldn't be getting an education because some people simply cannot afford it or they have so many children with little income meaning some of the kids will be left without.

With that said, I don't see why the government (even state govs) need to run grammar & high schools. With vouchers the government is simply funding the tuition (and possible books/uniforms/lunches) of students instead of entire school systems. The cost benefit seems fairly obvious. From a quality of education standpoint, except for some select areas (north east the biggest), public schools really suck and are mostly wasting kids time anyway. Why not give the boost to private schools and with the extra boost of income allow them take in the influx of children? The existing school sites (along wit the buildings/upplies etc) could be sold to private companies who will then come in and start a private school in its place. Not only would this raise some temporary money for the states/fed gov but it would save millions/billions in the long run and the quality of education for the average student would jump by quite a bit.

The only argument I see against it is funding of tuition for religious schools. While I see the issue here, sane religious schools don't sit and indoctrinate kids all day and instead give them a very good education. I went to catholci school for 12 years and the education was excellent espcially compared to public schools in the area. Similarly, my stepson goes to a lutheran school even though we aren't lutheran b/c of the quality of education.

How could it be cheaper? What you're proposing is creating a middleman - which by definition means its more expensive. Private high schools cost as much per year as a mid-level private college. Do you really think that the government can afford to pay 35,000 dollars a year for vouchers FOR EVERY STUDENT IN AMERICA?

 

[Samson]

I oppose school vouchers

If I don't like my police department...do I get a voucher to hire another?
If I don't like how my public works department plows my street....can I get a voucher to hire a private company?
If the fire department is too slow....can I get a voucher to hire a private company?

Actually, I like all those ideas.

 

[Oddball]

They could always walk ten miles through the blinding snow storm, uphill both ways, like our parents did.

I would hope we would have developed a more realistic solution:

Equip them all with hang-gliders to fly back and forth to school?

I smell a Government Grant. Why don't you apply for a study?

Maybe one of the reasons kids are so fat these days is that they expected to carted around virtually everywhere they go.

Eh?

 

[Samson]

They could always walk ten miles through the blinding snow storm, uphill both ways, like our parents did.

I would hope we would have developed a more realistic solution:

Equip them all with hang-gliders to fly back and forth to school?

I smell a Government Grant. Why don't you apply for a study?

Maybe one of the reasons kids are so fat these days is that they expected to carted around virtually everywhere they go.

Eh?

Yes, I'm sure that kids (fat or otherwise) who cannot be complelled to ride a bus and carry their own pencil to Geometry Class will pass on hang gliding to school.

 

[rightwinger]

I oppose school vouchers

If I don't like my police department...do I get a voucher to hire another?
If I don't like how my public works department plows my street....can I get a voucher to hire a private company?
If the fire department is too slow....can I get a voucher to hire a private company?

Actually, I like all those ideas.

You don't get to "opt out" in our society. You pay your taxes and if you don't like the way your taxes are spent you work to elect those who provide the services you want.

I don't see a way to provide vouchers without raising taxes

 

[NYcarbineer]

I'd support a voucher program in conjuction with the elimination of public schools altogether. But that isn't going to happen... ever.

The voucher programs currently proposed amount to nothing more than welfare for those that don't need it, which is why I'm opposed to them.

I could be persuaded to change my mind when I have to send my own kids to school. Pragmatism and my own bank account trump ideals every time.

Yes, by all means, eliminate the public school system. After all, that's how all those other nations who are beating us academically did it, right?

 

[Samson]

I'd support a voucher program in conjuction with the elimination of public schools altogether. But that isn't going to happen... ever.

The voucher programs currently proposed amount to nothing more than welfare for those that don't need it, which is why I'm opposed to them.

I could be persuaded to change my mind when I have to send my own kids to school. Pragmatism and my own bank account trump ideals every time.

Yes, by all means, eliminate the public school system. After all, that's how all those other nations who are beating us academically did it, right?

Comparing the school systems of other nations to the USA is at least as ridiculous as eliminating all US public education.

 

[rightwinger]

My town hasn't paved my road in the last two years.....I demand a voucher to have a private company do it

 

[Samson]

I oppose school vouchers

If I don't like my police department...do I get a voucher to hire another?
If I don't like how my public works department plows my street....can I get a voucher to hire a private company?
If the fire department is too slow....can I get a voucher to hire a private company?

Actually, I like all those ideas.

You don't get to "opt out" in our society. You pay your taxes and if you don't like the way your taxes are spent you work to elect those who provide the services you want.

I don't see a way to provide vouchers without raising taxes

Ok, then I'll vote for "those" who will provide me with vouchers.

I don't see a way that vouchers would not LOWER taxes. We could save the money spent on the unnecessary elected middle-man and his bloated beaurocratic base of babbling baboons.

 

[Oddball]

My town hasn't paved my road in the last two years.....I demand a voucher to have a private company do it

The lion's share of paving is contracted out to private firms.

Fail.

 

[sboyle24]

I want a voucher to pay for beers for us all!

 

[FA_Q2]

I'd support a voucher program in conjuction with the elimination of public schools altogether. But that isn't going to happen... ever.

The voucher programs currently proposed amount to nothing more than welfare for those that don't need it, which is why I'm opposed to them.

I could be persuaded to change my mind when I have to send my own kids to school. Pragmatism and my own bank account trump ideals every time.

The possibility that you might procreate is frightening enough, without having to remind us you might send your kids to school to school with ours.

The main arguement against vouchers is the transportation problem: How do you transport kids to schools once their parents pay the voucher?

Students in private schools and charter schools usually cannot depend on school busses to get to school. How will Urban Poor who get vouchers then transport their kid to various suburbs where more desireable schools exist? Public Transportation (if it exists)? You wanna send your prepubescent kids to schools using this option?

This is a false argument. The whole idea of these vouchers is that you can choose where to send your children. If you opt out of the cushy government supplied schools then the rest is on you. If you care about your child’s education then you will find a way to get them to that school. You cannot always get the exorbitant cash that many privatized schools charge but you sure can find a way to get your child to school.

 

[FA_Q2]

I having been wondering about school vouchers for a bit and started to read up on it. I checked wikipedia first ( School voucher - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ) and then went on to some other sites, but they weren't that helpful.

To me vouchers seems like the best solution from an education and government spending standard. its no secret that if everyone had to pay for their kids education that all kids wouldn't be getting an education because some people simply cannot afford it or they have so many children with little income meaning some of the kids will be left without.

With that said, I don't see why the government (even state govs) need to run grammar & high schools. With vouchers the government is simply funding the tuition (and possible books/uniforms/lunches) of students instead of entire school systems. The cost benefit seems fairly obvious. From a quality of education standpoint, except for some select areas (north east the biggest), public schools really suck and are mostly wasting kids time anyway. Why not give the boost to private schools and with the extra boost of income allow them take in the influx of children? The existing school sites (along wit the buildings/upplies etc) could be sold to private companies who will then come in and start a private school in its place. Not only would this raise some temporary money for the states/fed gov but it would save millions/billions in the long run and the quality of education for the average student would jump by quite a bit.

The only argument I see against it is funding of tuition for religious schools. While I see the issue here, sane religious schools don't sit and indoctrinate kids all day and instead give them a very good education. I went to catholci school for 12 years and the education was excellent espcially compared to public schools in the area. Similarly, my stepson goes to a lutheran school even though we aren't lutheran b/c of the quality of education.

How could it be cheaper? What you're proposing is creating a middleman - which by definition means its more expensive. Private high schools cost as much per year as a mid-level private college. Do you really think that the government can afford to pay 35,000 dollars a year for vouchers FOR EVERY STUDENT IN AMERICA?

I am unsure of the way vouchers have been corrupted by politicians but I believe that vouchers in their pure form would only divert the funds the local school is receiving from that student. For example: if the local school that you attend requires 5k a year for you to attend then you should be able to go to any public school for free if you provide the means to get there and back or you could divert that 5k to a private organization and pay the remaining money yourself. That is how a voucher should work. If, even though it will not happen, a school is cheaper than the voucher the remaining should go back to the state education fund.

 

[FA_Q2]

I oppose school vouchers

If I don't like my police department...do I get a voucher to hire another?
If I don't like how my public works department plows my street....can I get a voucher to hire a private company?
If the fire department is too slow....can I get a voucher to hire a private company?

Actually, I like all those ideas.

You don't get to "opt out" in our society. You pay your taxes and if you don't like the way your taxes are spent you work to elect those who provide the services you want.

I don't see a way to provide vouchers without raising taxes

That is the beauty of a simple and pure voucher system. Not one that is set up as a charity but one that accomplishes two things – move funds with the students and give parents choices on where to send their children. A simple system like that would only divert funding not increase it and would not require a single penny in taxes. I don’t see why there is so much opposition to choice.

 

[FA_Q2]

Drop athletics and such things and education costs would drop and maybe schools would concentrate more on education?

Most private and parochial schools seem to be that way.

Completely asinine. While these programs are not the focus of schools they provide students with very real and valuable benefits. The ability to compete and improve in a sport is not a drag on schools but a rather large boon to it. On that same note, I am not opposed to requiring students to pay for the advantage that sports give with a subsidized portion coming directly from said sports proceeds(like selling game tickets, food at games and holding charitable events).

 

[FA_Q2]

Dude
Make it the responsibility of the state and communities to find ways to educate the indigent.

Turning schooling into a welfare program for the middle class has proven to be a bust and it's high time to junk the current top-down model.

Bullshit. We are where we are today because we have made it an issue to educate EVERYONE.

Well, you're failing miserably, as evidenced by the proliferation of remedial studies courses for college freshmen.

We are not slipping because we have educated people, we are slipping because others are getting it and have started to educate their people MORE.

Really? Where have the grade level standards for reading, math and general sciences been raised in relation?

Gotta link?

No, I will not be providing a link. It is well known that the USA’s test scores are falling and those of other nations are not. While we still educate the best of the best in the entire world we are loosing ground. Our greatest asset has always been our populous. We simply can do many things better but that is changing every day and NOT educating our people is definitely the WRONG answer. I find it hypocritical that you would not support a basic level of knowledge for all US citizens and how you could relate that educating people is a bad thing. Don’t forget, these people VOTE. With all the idiocy we have today in our candidates imagine the quality of politician that would exist if the average person could not even read. It is clear that education needs to be a cornerstone within our society. The problem I believe we have is we teach to the lowest common denominator so that all learn together when we should be teaching to a higher standard. If you don’t meet that standard then tough luck you had better try again. Our standards are abysmally low because we are so transfixed on passing rates instead of knowledge attained. Then there is also the missing drive to teach our young how to think critically. Facts are meaningless without the knowledge of WHY. I digress; this thread is not on the failure of our school system but on how vouchers would be one large step in fixing the same.

 

[Neotrotsky]

I having been wondering about school vouchers for a bit and started to read up on it. I checked wikipedia first ( School voucher - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ) and then went on to some other sites, but they weren't that helpful.

To me vouchers seems like the best solution from an education and government spending standard. its no secret that if everyone had to pay for their kids education that all kids wouldn't be getting an education because some people simply cannot afford it or they have so many children with little income meaning some of the kids will be left without.

With that said, I don't see why the government (even state govs) need to run grammar & high schools. With vouchers the government is simply funding the tuition (and possible books/uniforms/lunches) of students instead of entire school systems. The cost benefit seems fairly obvious. From a quality of education standpoint, except for some select areas (north east the biggest), public schools really suck and are mostly wasting kids time anyway. Why not give the boost to private schools and with the extra boost of income allow them take in the influx of children? The existing school sites (along wit the buildings/upplies etc) could be sold to private companies who will then come in and start a private school in its place. Not only would this raise some temporary money for the states/fed gov but it would save millions/billions in the long run and the quality of education for the average student would jump by quite a bit.

The only argument I see against it is funding of tuition for religious schools. While I see the issue here, sane religious schools don't sit and indoctrinate kids all day and instead give them a very good education. I went to catholci school for 12 years and the education was excellent espcially compared to public schools in the area. Similarly, my stepson goes to a lutheran school even though we aren't lutheran b/c of the quality of education.

Ask Papa Obama

 

[uscitizen]

With parents choice of schools is the state required to provide transportation to that new school location? ie busses?

 

[rightwinger]

In my state you would have to bus kids to whatever school they choose. We would also have to pay to maintain existing school systems. Vouchers cost taxpayers money!

My school taxes are high enough

 

[uscitizen]

As I said before, vouchers are primarially a way to route taxpayer money to private enterprise.