How Can Dems Confuse Immigrants with Illegals ?

[BuddyColt]

This is for Mary L. It is a cut and paste from another board. Unfortunately due to the rules here, they do not want me to post the link to that board. The rest of the links will not drain their membership here, so they are legit:

An honest refutation to every political angle WilliamR will attempt on this thread:

Outcasts and Outlaws :: View topic - Liberties, Unalienable Rights and Due Process

The bottom line to all bottom lines is simply this:

The National Socialists demand that we call people in this country without papers "illegal aliens." That is incorrect from a Libertarian and constitutionalist POV. Each person is presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law by a jury of their peers. It is this petty name calling that I object the most to. It is what drives me on this issue. Presuming that any group is an "illegal" something or the other absent Due Process, then all groups will be presumed to be criminals and pursued that way. No matter what is said on this issue, I am sounding the warning: that is my dog in the fight.

I came from the Militia of Georgia. When an individual wanted my job, he / she did not run against me in an election, but accused me of teaching people how to build silencers and urging people to kill cops at roadblocks. This individual was bankrolled by the LEO community and was my arch nemesis for years. The LEOs developed a plan to kill me and claim I resisted arrest as a result of a lying snitch. The plan backfired and we ended up in court with the LEOs attempting to hide behind the so - called "Patriot Act" as justification for their actions.

During one of the discussions in the discovery process, I inquired of a government attorney when in the hell we decided that a person was guilty absent due process. He said, "We do it all the time. Haven't you ever heard of an illegal alien?" Now, my position is very clear: I was with an organization 4000 strong. It was split up over the immigration issue and ultimately all of my contemporaries (militia officers) save of those in my own unit ended up in one of four places: in jail, prison, working as a snitch or dead. Here are a couple of stories:

http://www.esquire.com/features/waff...rorists-0212-3

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/nati...stigation.html

Darren Wesley Huff, Georgia Birther, Sentenced For Plan To Take Over Tennessee Courthouse

(BTW, see the famous words of Darren Huff:"A former Georgia militia member testified Friday at his trial in a bizarre attempted courthouse takeover case, fighting back tears and saying "my government has called me a potential domestic terrorist."

Even when the precedents are beating these people into the ground, they cannot call an undocumented foreigner what they are... they have to rely on the "illegal alien" strategy - which I told all those guys above would not work and would be used as a precedent to pursue them as criminals absent Due Process. But, like WilliamR they were so filled with hate that they could not see the forest for the trees.

WilliamR is wrong. I know. I was on the border when the FIRST of the border patrols were activated in 1977. I used to write extensively about the subject when it was the only thing I understood. Many years later, I see my own research being used and argued though it proved to be inaccurate. I've posed some of the tough questions in other threads, but WilliamR does not want to answer those. You can't blame him. If your strategy is failing, start a different thread rather than engage when you have no facts.

The bottom line of all bottom lines boils down to a simple set of facts:

Our laws demand that a foreigner enter "properly." Then, the government fails to provide that "proper" mechanism. The National Socialists demand that people become citizens in order to be welcome. The problem is, many other Americans INVITE the foreigner here by hiring them, renting to them, etc. WilliamR and those like him have no consideration for Americans that don't buy into their ideology. Some of us believe that our Rights are unalienable. That word unalienable has a meaning... a meaning William R cannot comprehend. That failure by the National Socialists means that the government will build a total POLICE STATE because the government does not have to create that "proper" mechanism for foreigners to come here.

Please don't argue citizenship. We don't need everybody that passes through to be citizens. The rest of WilliamR's argument is refuted in whole at:

Outcasts and Outlaws :: View topic - Liberties, Unalienable Rights and Due Process

WilliamR, I warned all of those guys. It's a matter of record. Check the links. Maybe I cannot save you - even with the above link. But, if one person reads that link above and those earlier links, they might get it.

Previous posters warned me about you. I have lived with and around illegals. THEY are CRIMINALS one way or another. That is no exaggeration. You are playing, perhaps, the Devils advocate here. KUDOS, but they aren't deserving of such positive attention or sympathy. They hurt, they lie, they deceive. They have have hurt me and plenty others... So, what the HECK do you know about any of this? What is your motivation here? Stop the games and this moralizing junk, OK? Truth now. What is YOUR stake in this personally? No fair moralizing. The truth.

I gave you my dog in the fight. I've presented case examples of people that I know personally - not to mention that I was once on a hit list and would have wound up dead had a reporter not known the truth before the LEOs could raid my home.

MaryL. I came from the side you're on. Up until his death, Attorney Richard Barrett, the white supremacist, used to hawk videos of me on these subjects (though I left the organization I was speaking to when Barrett was hired on.) I was on the border in 1977. I even see a lot of the material I wrote as a teen being used as if it had relevance a quarter of a century later... before I understood the economics of this country.

I also know that if you went back to the 50s and 60s you could take the word black out of political rhetoric and replace it with Hispanics and it would warm the cockles of the National Socialists hearts.

This issue is much more simple than you make it out to be. The law demands that people do something a "proper" way. Then the government fails to provide this "proper" method for people to get here. The only way your side sees for the foreigner to come to the U.S. is by way of citizenship. I don't like the idea of forced citizenship. These people arguing that realize (or ought to realize what they're arguing for.) If / WHEN an amnesty comes along and allows foreigners to become citizens, you very well could have the drain on our economic system that you falsely allege today.

You cannot limit the unalienable Rights of another human being. Your gurus on this board are making this claim now that I'm a racist. Okay, you figure it out. If they are so damn smart, how come I keep repeating the words of a black man to get my point across. If I had something better, I would use it. Frederick Douglass, a former slave, once wrote:

"No man can put a chain about the ankle of his fellow man without at last finding the other end fastened about his own neck."

YOUR side is costing Americans their lives and their Liberties. YOUR side is dismantling the Constitution. ALL of the unconstitutional legislation passed over the past decade, save of Obamacare, was introduced by anti immigrant legislators, aimed at appeasing a lynch mob that will forfeit Liberty for the promise of temporary Safety. This isn't moralizing; this is reality. The so - called "Patriot Act" and the National ID REAL ID Act were introduced as anti - immigrant measures by U.S. Rep. James Sensenbrenner.

Sensenbrenner also tried to amend 8 USC 1325 to make entry without papers a crime. That bill failed.

The National Defense Authorization Act was introduced and passed by an anti - immigrant Tea Party legislator.

You have my objections relative to the bad precedents you're helping to create. What more do you want?

YOUR side cannot accept the reality that damn near every Mexican in Mexico has a relative in the United States that comes complete with an actual National ID / REAL ID card and a Socialist Surveillance Number. Strategically, you cannot win the fight. You cannot stop immigration (it would violate a whole host of constitutional guarantees.) If you don't want Mexico to become a part of the United States, you have to accommodate the free enterprise system without affording citizenship to every person that passes through the United States. Since my first thread here, I have advocated that we should NOT force citizenship on every person that comes here.

It's all too difficult for many to understand, but it is what it is.

 

[Liability]

This is for Mary L. It is a cut and paste from another board. Unfortunately due to the rules here, they do not want me to post the link to that board. The rest of the links will not drain their membership here, so they are legit:

An honest refutation to every political angle WilliamR will attempt on this thread:

Outcasts and Outlaws :: View topic - Liberties, Unalienable Rights and Due Process

The bottom line to all bottom lines is simply this:

The National Socialists demand that we call people in this country without papers "illegal aliens." That is incorrect from a Libertarian and constitutionalist POV. Each person is presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law by a jury of their peers. It is this petty name calling that I object the most to. It is what drives me on this issue. Presuming that any group is an "illegal" something or the other absent Due Process, then all groups will be presumed to be criminals and pursued that way. No matter what is said on this issue, I am sounding the warning: that is my dog in the fight.

I came from the Militia of Georgia. When an individual wanted my job, he / she did not run against me in an election, but accused me of teaching people how to build silencers and urging people to kill cops at roadblocks. This individual was bankrolled by the LEO community and was my arch nemesis for years. The LEOs developed a plan to kill me and claim I resisted arrest as a result of a lying snitch. The plan backfired and we ended up in court with the LEOs attempting to hide behind the so - called "Patriot Act" as justification for their actions.

During one of the discussions in the discovery process, I inquired of a government attorney when in the hell we decided that a person was guilty absent due process. He said, "We do it all the time. Haven't you ever heard of an illegal alien?" Now, my position is very clear: I was with an organization 4000 strong. It was split up over the immigration issue and ultimately all of my contemporaries (militia officers) save of those in my own unit ended up in one of four places: in jail, prison, working as a snitch or dead. Here are a couple of stories:

http://www.esquire.com/features/waff...rorists-0212-3

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/nati...stigation.html

Darren Wesley Huff, Georgia Birther, Sentenced For Plan To Take Over Tennessee Courthouse

(BTW, see the famous words of Darren Huff:"A former Georgia militia member testified Friday at his trial in a bizarre attempted courthouse takeover case, fighting back tears and saying "my government has called me a potential domestic terrorist."

Even when the precedents are beating these people into the ground, they cannot call an undocumented foreigner what they are... they have to rely on the "illegal alien" strategy - which I told all those guys above would not work and would be used as a precedent to pursue them as criminals absent Due Process. But, like WilliamR they were so filled with hate that they could not see the forest for the trees.

WilliamR is wrong. I know. I was on the border when the FIRST of the border patrols were activated in 1977. I used to write extensively about the subject when it was the only thing I understood. Many years later, I see my own research being used and argued though it proved to be inaccurate. I've posed some of the tough questions in other threads, but WilliamR does not want to answer those. You can't blame him. If your strategy is failing, start a different thread rather than engage when you have no facts.

The bottom line of all bottom lines boils down to a simple set of facts:

Our laws demand that a foreigner enter "properly." Then, the government fails to provide that "proper" mechanism. The National Socialists demand that people become citizens in order to be welcome. The problem is, many other Americans INVITE the foreigner here by hiring them, renting to them, etc. WilliamR and those like him have no consideration for Americans that don't buy into their ideology. Some of us believe that our Rights are unalienable. That word unalienable has a meaning... a meaning William R cannot comprehend. That failure by the National Socialists means that the government will build a total POLICE STATE because the government does not have to create that "proper" mechanism for foreigners to come here.

Please don't argue citizenship. We don't need everybody that passes through to be citizens. The rest of WilliamR's argument is refuted in whole at:

Outcasts and Outlaws :: View topic - Liberties, Unalienable Rights and Due Process

WilliamR, I warned all of those guys. It's a matter of record. Check the links. Maybe I cannot save you - even with the above link. But, if one person reads that link above and those earlier links, they might get it.

Previous posters warned me about you. I have lived with and around illegals. THEY are CRIMINALS one way or another. That is no exaggeration. You are playing, perhaps, the Devils advocate here. KUDOS, but they aren't deserving of such positive attention or sympathy. They hurt, they lie, they deceive. They have have hurt me and plenty others... So, what the HECK do you know about any of this? What is your motivation here? Stop the games and this moralizing junk, OK? Truth now. What is YOUR stake in this personally? No fair moralizing. The truth.

I gave you my dog in the fight. I've presented case examples of people that I know personally - not to mention that I was once on a hit list and would have wound up dead had a reporter not known the truth before the LEOs could raid my home.

MaryL. I came from the side you're on. Up until his death, Attorney Richard Barrett, the white supremacist, used to hawk videos of me on these subjects (though I left the organization I was speaking to when Barrett was hired on.) I was on the border in 1977. I even see a lot of the material I wrote as a teen being used as if it had relevance a quarter of a century later... before I understood the economics of this country.

I also know that if you went back to the 50s and 60s you could take the word black out of political rhetoric and replace it with Hispanics and it would warm the cockles of the National Socialists hearts.

This issue is much more simple than you make it out to be. The law demands that people do something a "proper" way. Then the government fails to provide this "proper" method for people to get here. The only way your side sees for the foreigner to come to the U.S. is by way of citizenship. I don't like the idea of forced citizenship. These people arguing that realize (or ought to realize what they're arguing for.) If / WHEN an amnesty comes along and allows foreigners to become citizens, you very well could have the drain on our economic system that you falsely allege today.

You cannot limit the unalienable Rights of another human being. Your gurus on this board are making this claim now that I'm a racist. Okay, you figure it out. If they are so damn smart, how come I keep repeating the words of a black man to get my point across. If I had something better, I would use it. Frederick Douglass, a former slave, once wrote:

"No man can put a chain about the ankle of his fellow man without at last finding the other end fastened about his own neck."

YOUR side is costing Americans their lives and their Liberties. YOUR side is dismantling the Constitution. ALL of the unconstitutional legislation passed over the past decade, save of Obamacare, was introduced by anti immigrant legislators, aimed at appeasing a lynch mob that will forfeit Liberty for the promise of temporary Safety. This isn't moralizing; this is reality. The so - called "Patriot Act" and the National ID REAL ID Act were introduced as anti - immigrant measures by U.S. Rep. James Sensenbrenner.

Sensenbrenner also tried to amend 8 USC 1325 to make entry without papers a crime. That bill failed.

The National Defense Authorization Act was introduced and passed by an anti - immigrant Tea Party legislator.

You have my objections relative to the bad precedents you're helping to create. What more do you want?

YOUR side cannot accept the reality that damn near every Mexican in Mexico has a relative in the United States that comes complete with an actual National ID / REAL ID card and a Socialist Surveillance Number. Strategically, you cannot win the fight. You cannot stop immigration (it would violate a whole host of constitutional guarantees.) If you don't want Mexico to become a part of the United States, you have to accommodate the free enterprise system without affording citizenship to every person that passes through the United States. Since my first thread here, I have advocated that we should NOT force citizenship on every person that comes here.

It's all too difficult for many to understand, but it is what it is.

 

[Unkotare]

Every Hispanic you see is not an "illegal alien." .

No one here has said they assume so, you dishonest douchebag.

 

[Unkotare]

I was once on a hit list and would have wound up dead had a reporter not known the truth before the LEOs could raid my home.

Are you related to ed spaceman/zombie by any chance? Do you have a home-made 'recording' of this "hit" that was out on you? And you never answered my question as to whether or not you were an attorney. Why is that?

 

[tigerbob]

In that pretend world democrats inhabit there is no difference....................lol

Clearly I missed something here. When did Dems confuse these two? Is there a specific quote you are referring to?

 

[Unkotare]

The only way your side sees for the foreigner to come to the U.S. is by way of citizenship.

AGAIN, no one has said that but YOU, you dishonest, dumbass douchebag.