How Are Protective Classes Formed?

[Amanda]

I have a lot of interest in protected classes (gays, blacks, jews, etc) and I'm wondering how they emerge. Is there a common event that raises a certain group to protected status. Or is it a common trait? How do these groups go from being underdogs that are routinely "abused" to protected status where they become virtually untouchable?

Your thoughts?


And please, can you give me 2 or 3 pages of discussion before we make this about the rep system or speculation of various posters hygiene habits, etc? I'd really appreciate it because I'm trying to learn.

 

[Anguille]

Your thoughts?


And please, can you give me 2 or 3 pages of discussion before we make this about the rep system or speculation of various posters hygiene habits, etc? I'd really appreciate it because I'm trying to learn.

LOL!!!!

I think about that too. I also think that being in a class of people, protected or not, is a huge advantage. Because at least you know you are not alone. It is the people who are so very different, so unique and who are marginalized because of their differences that have my most heartfelt sympathy.

 

[michiganFats]

I think guilt is a big factor in establishing a so called protected class or group. If an activist can convince enough people that they are somehow,even indirectly, responsible for something bad happening to someone or something else, they will receive contributions. The more they receive, the more political power they are likely to wield.

 

[Sky Dancer]

The truly protected classes are the rich and powerful. They are the 'untouchables'. Just my opinion.

"Protected Class Groups - Protected class groups are a group of people protected from discrimination and harassment. The following groups are considered "Protected Classes":


Race
Religion
Color
National Origin
Age (40 and over)
Sexual Orientation
Individuals with Disabilities
Veteran Status


Race/Ethnic Origin
Black or African American (not of Hispanic Origin) - A person having origins in any of the Black racial groups of Africa.
Hispanic or Latino - A person of Mexican, Puerto Rican, Cuban, Central or South American, or other Spanish culture or origin, regardless of race.
Asian - A person having origins in any of the original peoples of the Far East, Southeast Asia, the Indian Subcontinent, for example, China, Japan, Korea, the Philippine Islands, Thailand, and Vietnam.
Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander - A person having origins in any of the original peoples of Hawaii, Guam, Samoa, or other Pacific Islands.
American Indian or Alaska Native - A person having origins in any of the original peoples of North and South America (including Central America), and who maintains cultural identification through tribal affiliation or community recognition.

Veterans

Veterans covered under 41 CFR 60-250 of the Vietnam Era Veteran's Readjustment Assistance Act of 1974 (VEVRAA):

Other Protected Veteran: 1.) A person who served in a war with active duty service between December 7, 1941 and April 28, 1952. Or 2.) A person who served in a campaign or expedition for which a campaign badge, a service medal, or expeditionary medal has been awarded. For a complete list of campaigns refer to Criteria Identifying Other Eligible Veterans.
Veteran of the Vietnam Era: a person who served on active duty for a period of more than 180 days, any part of which occurred between Feb. 28, 1961, and May 7, 1975 in the republic of Vietnam or between Aug. 5, 1964, and May 7, 1975 in other regions, and who were not dishonorably discharged, or who were released from active duty for a service-connected disability during that period.
"Disabled Veteran" means: a person entitled to disability compensation under law administered by the Veteran's Administration for disability rated at 30 percent or more, or rated at 10 or 20 percent in the case of a veteran who has been determined under 38 U.S.C. 3106 to have a serious employment handicap; or a person whose discharge or release from active duty was for a disability incurred or aggravated in the line of duty.
Recently Separated Veteran: any veteran during the one-year period beginning on the date of such veteran's discharge or release from active duty.


Veterans covered under 41 CFR Part 60-300 of the Jobs for Veterans Act (JVA):

Disabled Veteran: (1) A veteran of the U.S. military, ground, naval or air service who is entitled to compensation (or who but for the receipt of military retired pay would be entitled to compensation) under laws administered by the Secretary of Veterans Affairs, or (2) A person who was discharged or released from active duty because of a service-connected disability.
Recently Separated Veteran: Any veteran during the three-year period beginning on the date of such veteran's discharge or release from active duty in the U.S. military, ground, naval or air service.
Armed Forces Service Medal Veteran: Any veteran who, while serving on active duty in the U.S. military, ground, naval or air service, participated in a United States military operation for which an Armed Forces service medal was awarded pursuant to Executive Order 12985.
Other Protected Veteran: a veteran who served on active duty in the U.S. military, ground, naval or air service during a war or in a campaign or expedition for which a campaign badge has been authorized, under the laws administered by the Department of Defense.

Individual with disabilities is an individual who:
has a physical or mental impairment which substantially limits one or more major life activity
has a record of such impairment
is regarded as having such impairments

Sexual Orientation includes:
Gay
Lesbian
Bisexual
Transgender"

http://www.admin.mtu.edu/aao/protectedclass.htm

How many lawsuits are won by these so called untouchables? Very few.

 

[Sky Dancer]

It is very difficult to prove you are being discriminated against because of so-callled 'protected' class.
Matthew Shephard was not protected. Mulageta Seraw was not protected.

If you're going to point to a tragic event as evidence that protected classes don't exist I don't think we're talking about the same thing. I'm talking about social protection. I'm talking about how if you make a black joke you're a racist and how if you make a blond joke you're a comedy genius. One group is protected another is not. Surely if blonde women are as stupid as everyone seems to think they deserve protection too... yet they don't get it. Why is that? Is it because they are already privileged? I really, really want to keep this on topic, can you help me?

Look around this board. It is pretty AOK to use racist terminology, slurs against women and minorities in the name of free speech.

It's an equal opportunity environment to be insulted. Are you saying it bothers you when some people call you out for using such terms? What's your interest in the topic? Do you think we should do away with civil rights law?

If someone says something racist in my presence, I often address it with the person if we are friends. Teaching tolerance it's called.

Learning involves an open mind. That's all you need.

 

[catzmeow]

If you're going to point to a tragic event as evidence that protected classes don't exist I don't think we're talking about the same thing. I'm talking about social protection. I'm talking about how if you make a black joke you're a racist and how if you make a blond joke you're a comedy genius. One group is protected another is not. Surely if blonde women are as stupid as everyone seems to think they deserve protection too... yet they don't get it. Why is that? Is it because they are already privileged? I really, really want to keep this on topic, can you help me?

I think that some groups excel at exploiting their own victim status. I think there are some nearly permanent victims amongst some segments of the African American communities. For instance, if you think about the "scholars" who have made a career out of promoting black victimhood...that's one group. I think that the majority of lesbians, for instance, are pretty much like the rest of us. There are a few, however, who feel like any criticism of THEM, specifically, is equivalent to criticism of lesbianism. Somehow, they take their personal issues and imply that any criticism of them, as an individual, is because of their membership in that group.

As a blond with large breasts, I am the stereotypical person who has no immunity, whatsoever, from humor opportunities, but I laugh as hard as anyone at a blond joke.

And, I think that stuff like this is hilarious.

 

[catzmeow]

Look around this board. It is pretty AOK to use racist terminology, slurs against women and minorities in the name of free speech.

I would disagree with this. I think that people who use racial slurs are often called out for it, publicly. I see DavidS and Sunni being dished a boatload of crap on a regular basis for their anti-Jew/muslim rants.

But, a lot of slurs are in the eyes of the beholder. A lot of the standard "slurs" against women don't bother me a bit, as a woman. I don't find that I have an emotional reaction to them, at all. In fact, I wonder about the sanity of people who DO have a strong emotional reaction to words.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Here's a resource on civil rights legislation. This is how minorities are protected:
Civil rights | LII / Legal Information Institute

 

[Amanda]

Look around this board. It is pretty AOK to use racist terminology, slurs against women and minorities in the name of free speech.

It's an equal opportunity environment to be insulted. Are you saying it bothers you when some people call you out for using such terms? What's your interest in the topic? Do you think we should do away with civil rights law?

If someone says something racist in my presence, I often address it with the person if we are friends. Teaching tolerance it's called.

Learning involves an open mind. That's all you need.

Anything goes on a message board. People say things they would never say in RL because there are no real consequences.

What bothers me is being called out for not using todays right terminology. If you catch it just right you can get clubbed for using the old correct word then get it again when you use the new correct word. I don't use slurs, at least that I'm aware of. Have you ever known me too?

My interest in the topic is to understand the social phenomenon. I don't have an agenda. I could expand more on my feelings about it, but that isn't why I started the thread.

 

[Jon]

The real beauty of protected classes/anti-discrimination laws is the reverse effect they have on the non-protected classes. Being a white, straight male is becoming harder and harder, because we have no protection whatsoever.

As for your situation, the reason blond women get no protection is because no one ever stood up for them. The blacks got their protection because MLK and others stood up and shouted loud enough until society heard them. Every social class has to have a leader if they want to be heard.

What's sad is that the treatment of blond women doesn't stop at jokes. I know women who have been denied jobs because they were the buxom blond bombshell and the interviewer wrote them off as a typical "dumb blond."

 

[Diuretic]

I have a lot of interest in protected classes (gays, blacks, jews, etc) and I'm wondering how they emerge. Is there a common event that raises a certain group to protected status. Or is it a common trait? How do these groups go from being underdogs that are routinely "abused" to protected status where they become virtually untouchable?

Your thoughts?

......

Any legislative protection of minorities usually follows some sort of disastrous event that befalls a minority group. Sometimes that can happen when there is a regime change and sometimes it's more gradual. I mentioned a "disastrous event". I should clarify that that's just a trigger. It's usually the case that there has been a sort of social acceptance of the persecution or embedded prejudice against the particular minority. Looking at the three groups you've mentioned is instructive.

Gays (in the west, some parts of the world they can still be judicially executed) were persecuted for their sexuality. In Britain before the Wolfenden Inquiry men could be - and were - sent to prison for having sex with one another. That didn't happen to women though, there was no law against women having sex with one another.

Blacks - different experiences in different countries. In the US I know I don't need to explain. In the UK there wasn't the overt legal discrimination against blacks that existed in parts of the US for many years. But it existed and it was hidden and pernicious. Anti-racial discrimnation does nothing more than put blacks and other races (I know, contentious term but I have to use it) on an equal footing with whites when it comes to things like being able to rent a house. That's protection but it isn't privilege. More on that point in a moment.

Jews - again, doesn't need explanation. In the UK there was historically legislation which made it lawful for Jews to be discriminated against. This existed for hundreds of years. Gradually that specific legislation was broken down until Jews eventually had the rights of every other British citizen.

I need to make that point about protection and privilege. If someone is a member of a minority group and they're discriminated against simply because of their sexuality, their racial appearance or their religion then they are living in conditions which make them less of a citizen of that society. The view in western liberal democracies is that people should be treated equally by society. That seems to be a pretty reasonable position to me. But protection is only affording people their social rights, it's not giving them extra, these aren't privileges, they're simply the rights that everyone should be able to enjoy.

 

[Jon]

How bothersome is it to you to be respectful of others? The terms ******, negro, colored, African American and black all refer to peoples of black or brown skin whose ancestors came from Africa.

What difference does it make to adjust the terms to one that is respectful of others? Are you really that put out about it?

I think Amanda's point is that if you use the wrong term in reference to a protected class, you'll be called out. If you use the politically incorrect term for a non-protected class, no one seems to care.

 

[catzmeow]

What's sad is that the treatment of blond women doesn't stop at jokes. I know women who have been denied jobs because they were the buxom blond bombshell and the interviewer wrote them off as a typical "dumb blond."

THis has been statistically validated. Blonds are often thought of as less intelligent than brunettes.

Garnier surveyed around 6,000 people as part of its research, both women and men, and found that brunettes are twice as likely to earn $65,000 to $80,000 compared to their flaxen-haired friends. In addition, 75 per cent of people think that brunettes are smarter and more intelligent than blondes, and 71 per cent would pick a dark-haired woman as an ideal partner for a long-term relationship. 81 per cent of people surveyed consider brunettes as the most genuine, and 66 per cent said they are the least moody.

Brunettes VS Blondes

 

[Jon]

That's protection but it isn't privilege. More on that point in a moment.

But it can be privilege. Because of the delicacy of anti-discrimination laws, lenders and employers have to be careful in who they deny. If you were a bank, and you could make 1 home loan and you had two applicants, a non-protected couple (white male, white female) and a protected couple (a gay or black couple), you almost have to go with the protected couple, otherwise you open yourself to a possible lawsuit. The same goes with hiring practices. And, in the end, it's the non-protected classes who are being discriminated against because of these laws.

 

[catzmeow]

How bothersome is it to you to be respectful of others? The terms ******, negro, colored, African American and black all refer to peoples of black or brown skin whose ancestors came from Africa.

What difference does it make to adjust the terms to one that is respectful of others? Are you really that put out about it?

Where do you draw the line at respect? Would you, for instance, make derogatory comments about another person's appearance, age or weight?

 

[Amanda]

How bothersome is it to you to be respectful of others? The terms ******, negro, colored, African American and black all refer to peoples of black or brown skin whose ancestors came from Africa.

What difference does it make to adjust the terms to one that is respectful of others? Are you really that put out about it?

It isn't bothersome to be respectful. It's bothersome to be accused of something because you didn't get the memo the terminology has changed. I'm put out because of the inference that I'm a racist because I didn't magically know what word I was supposed to use.

 

[Anguille]

Why not use the term preferred by the person you're relating to?

Nice thought in theory but people don't wear nametags.
My white skinned Muslim Morrocan friend who looks like Jew because a few generations back his family was Jewish prefers to be called Afro American but no one does.

I prefer to be called native american than Swedish American but no one calls me that either.

The hardest thing to know is which actresses want to be called actresses or actors.

 

[Amanda]

Amanda-

I haven't called you a racist nor have I inferred that you're a racist. I offered an example of the range of words we use to describe a person who happens to have black or brown skin.

Why not use the term preferred by the person you're relating to?

I think the problems lies with the person who is being over sensitive. If I say 'black' clearly I wasn't trying to be disrespectful, but I've been dressed down in a way I felt was very disrespectful more than once for it. And as I said, if you play it just right you can told your wrong the other way too, but I've never had that happen in a disrespectful way, it was just annoying to have to listen to this old black guy tell me that he wasn't from Africa.

If people have special words they want me to use they need to communicate that somehow. Maybe t-shirts or tattoos are in order.

 

[dilloduck]

I think guilt is a big factor in establishing a so called protected class or group. If an activist can convince enough people that they are somehow,even indirectly, responsible for something bad happening to someone or something else, they will receive contributions. The more they receive, the more political power they are likely to wield.

agreed and I'd like to expound on that. We have become pussies. We are so afraid that we wil lbe treated poorly and unable to defend ourselves that we establish token groups that we protect, stupidly thinking that if we are treated poorly, we will receive the same amount of protection.

 

[Amanda]

How bothersome is it to you to be respectful of others? The terms ******, negro, colored, African American and black all refer to peoples of black or brown skin whose ancestors came from Africa.

What difference does it make to adjust the terms to one that is respectful of others? Are you really that put out about it?

Where do you draw the line at respect? Would you, for instance, make derogatory comments about another person's appearance, age or weight?

In some ways it seems to me that anything that implies we aren't all the same, or that someone is better is off limits.