CDZ How About a Concise Debate Zone?

[jwoodie]

I am getting tired of posters in this forum who use a form of literary filibustery as a self-aggrandizing substitute for concise thought and opinion. In addition to being repetitive and boring to read, these posts seem to contain deliberate escape routes whereby the original subject can be redirected if the subsequent conversation is not to the OP's liking.

Other than submitting a vain appeal to those who practice this intellectual trickery, I can only suggest a 500 word (25 line) limit to original (and subsequent) posts. If you can't meet this standard, you need to think more and write less.

 

[Pogo]

I know I'm longwinded, so one habit I try to cultivate (but don't always do) is once I've written all my thoughts out and the post is complete, stop and review for material that is redundant or can be condensed. When I do that review I always find some fat that can be trimmed.

It takes patience, which is not a natural tendency.

 

[FA_Q2]

Meh. Some people are long winded. That does not mean they are not well thought out. I enjoy the conversations that I have had with 320 and I don't think he is capable of making a short post that has a point. If you don't like long posts, don't read or respond to them. It is that easy. There are 2 or 3 posters here that also make very long posts that I know I am going to find a chore to read and come out at the end with zero knowledge or challenge. To those posters I simply skip over their long responses.

Why do you need to have a special forum to do something that you can do on your own? It is not like these really long posts take over from single paragraph posts. They take a long time to make and come at much longer intervals.

 

[Elvis Obama]

There are people who think that a weak argument is supported by the quantity of supporting material they present. Others deal with complex questions in detail. Rationality matters to me, brevity does not.

 

[jwoodie]

There are people who think that a weak argument is supported by the quantity of supporting material they present. Others deal with complex questions in detail. Rationality matters to me, brevity does not.

Why don't you/they just start your own thread and see if anyone cares to read it? These long posts almost always change the subject matter of the OP into something more of their liking. This is not accidental.

 

[320 Years of History]

Another problem with artificially prescribed length limits is that they may force writers to use advanced grammatical structures and rarefied vocabulary to adhere to the length constraint, potentially affecting a churlish tone and impugning the aleatory comprehension of their remarks.

Though I can personally deal with it, and if I must I will, I, no doubt like most folks here, don't want to read remarks like "I believe Donald Trump's mulismic rathymia fails to forfend his canter." I don't, especially to assuage someone's need for brevity, want to be forced to write them either. Sure, writing like that is terse and precise, but if I had to guess, I'd say that even knowing the denotation of statements like that, few know or glean their connotation. What's the point of writing like that when one's aim is to communicate effectively.

If one lacks time or will to read a long post, well, don't read it, just don't comment on it either.

 

[Militants]

I will this category left in forum !!

 

[JoeMoma]

I am usually using a tablet to respond. Typing long responses are a chore since I am usually using one finger. It can be hard to keep up a conversation/debate with someone who makes use of all ten digits.

 

[KokomoJojo]

There are people who think that a weak argument is supported by the quantity of supporting material they present. Others deal with complex questions in detail. Rationality matters to me, brevity does not.

Why don't you/they just start your own thread and see if anyone cares to read it? These long posts almost always change the subject matter of the OP into something more of their liking. This is not accidental.

what you are suggesting though well intended is not a solution.

Threads drift, its more often than not necessary to bring in indirect examples to prove the central issue.

The problem is not only syntax terrorism as you mentioned but the plethora of misappropriated minutia that a poster through diversion or ignorance presents as a pivotal factor to draw a conclusion despite its useless trivia, and often times posters are too ignorant of the topic they are trying to discuss often derailing them by forcing opponents to often impossible task of dumbing a point down to preschool level (911 aguments come to mind), and lets not forget the incessant use of the strawman bait and switch tactics intended to divert the subject matter to something they 'think' they can defend.

Lastly straight up denial and cognitive dissonance all contribute to the difficulties in maintaining a cohesive thread.

 

[Toronado3800]

I like the idea but do not know how to implement it.

One of my pet peeves are the shorter posts we see from tablets and phones (including mine). We don't give links as well on touch screen devices, we seem even more angry.

None the less:

A man was driving in the middle of nowhere down a secluded country road far from any cities. He got a flat tire, and got out to walk for help.After walking for some time, he came to a small stone monastery. He knocked on the door and roused the monks. "I've got a flat tire. Can I use your phone?" He asked.

The monks said they were sorry, but they did not have a phone. "If you stay tonight, you can get a ride on our wagon into town tomorrow," they said. So the man stayed the night, and they put him in a small room in the monastery.

In the middle of the night, the man was awakened suddenly by a noise. Not just any noise, but the loudest, most wonderful, most terrifying, most hair-raising noise ever.

He sat there, his heart beating for a few minutes, and he heard it again!Getting out of bed, he went running in the direction of the noise. It came again, making the hair on the back of his neck rise and his skin crawl. Finally, he came to a large door where the head monk was standing. The door was at least 15 feet tall, and made of solid-looking wood and metal. It had chains and bars and locks and a deadbolt on it, and was the most formidable door the man had ever seen.

"What was that sound?" He asked. "What made it? Is it behind that door?"

The head monk shook his head. "I'm sorry," he said. "I can't tell you; you're not a monk."

As the man turned away, he heard the noise again. "You have to tell me what it is," he begged.

"I'm sorry, I can't tell you, you're not a monk," said the monk.

The man tried to sleep, but couldn't get the noise out of his head. In the morning, as he was getting ready to leave, he heard the sound again. It made his ears ring and his mind whirl."Please tell me what made that sound," he said.

But the monks wouldn't. "I'm sorry, you're not a monk" was all they said.

The man left, and eventually got his car fixed and went back to his life. But he couldn't get the sound out of his mind. After a few months, he got in his car and drove and drove until he found the monastery again. He got out of his car and found the head monk. "I can't forget that sound from that night I was here. Please, please please tell me what made that sound." The head monk just shook his head.

"I can't tell you; you're not a monk," he said."Then tell me how I can become a monk," the man said.

The head monk said "It's very difficult. Are you sure you want to do this?"The man said "I've got to. I have to know what made that sound."The head monk said, "To join us, you have to perform several tasks. Your first task is to count all of the stars visible in the sky."

The man thought about how hard that would be, but he had to know what made that sound. He sat up every night for a year, counting the stars over and over until he was sure how many stars were visible in the sky. He went to the head monk and told him, and the monk nodded.

"Very good. Your next task is to count all of the grains of sand on the beaches around the world."The man knew this would be even harder, but he could not get the noise out of his head. He had to know what, what kind of animal, could make that terrible horrible mind-bending sound. So he left on his journeys. He crawled the length and breadth of every beach in the world, counting the grains of sand, and he returned to the monastery years later.The head monk heard his answer and nodded.

"Excellent. You are almost done. Your final task is to climb to the peak of the highest mountain in the world, and see yourself in relation to the rest of creation." And the man knew this would be hard, but he outfitted himself, and he went to the highest mountain in the world, and he climbed to the top, and returned months later, older and wiser and more tired than years before when he had first heard the noise, the noise that would not leave his mind and that echoed in his every waking thought.He returned, and the head monk saw that he was wiser, and said "At last, you are a monk. Come with me."

And they walked through the monastery, its twisting and turning halls, and as they went the man heard the noise again, over and over, and he was no longer sure if it was the noise or merely his memory of it.And finally, finally, he stood in front of the door and the head monk opened it up, and the man saw what had made the noise.

But, I can't tell you what it was. You're not a monk.

; )

 

[320 Years of History]

I like the idea but do not know how to implement it.

One of my pet peeves are the shorter posts we see from tablets and phones (including mine). We don't give links as well on touch screen devices, we seem even more angry.

....

It didn't even cross my mind that people participate in what ostensibly ought to be substantive discourse about complex topics with total strangers and attempting to do so using a phone/phablet/touch-only tablet. I can see why long posts and links (reading or writing them) might bother some people who are trying to do so. There's no way I could even begin to type as rapidly or "talk-to-text and proofread/edit" as quickly as I do with a laptop/desktop computer. Not even close....

 

[FA_Q2]

I like the idea but do not know how to implement it.

One of my pet peeves are the shorter posts we see from tablets and phones (including mine). We don't give links as well on touch screen devices, we seem even more angry.

....

It didn't even cross my mind that people participate in what ostensibly ought to be substantive discourse about complex topics with total strangers and attempting to do so using a phone/phablet/touch-only tablet. I can see why long posts and links (reading or writing them) might bother some people who are trying to do do. There's no way I could even begin to type as rapidly or "talk-to-text and proofread/edit" as quickly as I do with a laptop/desktop computer. Not even close....

I avoid posting on a portable device for just this reason. Tried to so this on my phone and discovered very quickly that it was a pain in the ass.

 

[jwoodie]

I like the idea but do not know how to implement it.

One of my pet peeves are the shorter posts we see from tablets and phones (including mine). We don't give links as well on touch screen devices, we seem even more angry.

None the less:

A man was driving in the middle of nowhere down a secluded country road far from any cities. He got a flat tire, and got out to walk for help.After walking for some time, he came to a small stone monastery. He knocked on the door and roused the monks. "I've got a flat tire. Can I use your phone?" He asked.

The monks said they were sorry, but they did not have a phone. "If you stay tonight, you can get a ride on our wagon into town tomorrow," they said. So the man stayed the night, and they put him in a small room in the monastery.

In the middle of the night, the man was awakened suddenly by a noise. Not just any noise, but the loudest, most wonderful, most terrifying, most hair-raising noise ever.

He sat there, his heart beating for a few minutes, and he heard it again!Getting out of bed, he went running in the direction of the noise. It came again, making the hair on the back of his neck rise and his skin crawl. Finally, he came to a large door where the head monk was standing. The door was at least 15 feet tall, and made of solid-looking wood and metal. It had chains and bars and locks and a deadbolt on it, and was the most formidable door the man had ever seen.

"What was that sound?" He asked. "What made it? Is it behind that door?"

The head monk shook his head. "I'm sorry," he said. "I can't tell you; you're not a monk."

As the man turned away, he heard the noise again. "You have to tell me what it is," he begged.

"I'm sorry, I can't tell you, you're not a monk," said the monk.

The man tried to sleep, but couldn't get the noise out of his head. In the morning, as he was getting ready to leave, he heard the sound again. It made his ears ring and his mind whirl."Please tell me what made that sound," he said.

But the monks wouldn't. "I'm sorry, you're not a monk" was all they said.

The man left, and eventually got his car fixed and went back to his life. But he couldn't get the sound out of his mind. After a few months, he got in his car and drove and drove until he found the monastery again. He got out of his car and found the head monk. "I can't forget that sound from that night I was here. Please, please please tell me what made that sound." The head monk just shook his head.

"I can't tell you; you're not a monk," he said."Then tell me how I can become a monk," the man said.

The head monk said "It's very difficult. Are you sure you want to do this?"The man said "I've got to. I have to know what made that sound."The head monk said, "To join us, you have to perform several tasks. Your first task is to count all of the stars visible in the sky."

The man thought about how hard that would be, but he had to know what made that sound. He sat up every night for a year, counting the stars over and over until he was sure how many stars were visible in the sky. He went to the head monk and told him, and the monk nodded.

"Very good. Your next task is to count all of the grains of sand on the beaches around the world."The man knew this would be even harder, but he could not get the noise out of his head. He had to know what, what kind of animal, could make that terrible horrible mind-bending sound. So he left on his journeys. He crawled the length and breadth of every beach in the world, counting the grains of sand, and he returned to the monastery years later.The head monk heard his answer and nodded.

"Excellent. You are almost done. Your final task is to climb to the peak of the highest mountain in the world, and see yourself in relation to the rest of creation." And the man knew this would be hard, but he outfitted himself, and he went to the highest mountain in the world, and he climbed to the top, and returned months later, older and wiser and more tired than years before when he had first heard the noise, the noise that would not leave his mind and that echoed in his every waking thought.He returned, and the head monk saw that he was wiser, and said "At last, you are a monk. Come with me."

And they walked through the monastery, its twisting and turning halls, and as they went the man heard the noise again, over and over, and he was no longer sure if it was the noise or merely his memory of it.And finally, finally, he stood in front of the door and the head monk opened it up, and the man saw what had made the noise.

But, I can't tell you what it was. You're not a monk.

; )

A man was riding a donkey down the road.

The donkey kept asking where they were going.

The man kept answering: Patience, my little ass...

 

[LoneLaugher]

A leading candidate for POTUS has captivated millions in 140 characters or less. Maybe brevity is overrated.

That said...if you can't trim the fat a little.....you will likely find yourself communicating with others who can't either. Enjoy each other.

 

[320 Years of History]

I like the idea but do not know how to implement it.

One of my pet peeves are the shorter posts we see from tablets and phones (including mine). We don't give links as well on touch screen devices, we seem even more angry.

None the less:

A man was driving in the middle of nowhere down a secluded country road far from any cities. He got a flat tire, and got out to walk for help.After walking for some time, he came to a small stone monastery. He knocked on the door and roused the monks. "I've got a flat tire. Can I use your phone?" He asked.

The monks said they were sorry, but they did not have a phone. "If you stay tonight, you can get a ride on our wagon into town tomorrow," they said. So the man stayed the night, and they put him in a small room in the monastery.

In the middle of the night, the man was awakened suddenly by a noise. Not just any noise, but the loudest, most wonderful, most terrifying, most hair-raising noise ever.

He sat there, his heart beating for a few minutes, and he heard it again!Getting out of bed, he went running in the direction of the noise. It came again, making the hair on the back of his neck rise and his skin crawl. Finally, he came to a large door where the head monk was standing. The door was at least 15 feet tall, and made of solid-looking wood and metal. It had chains and bars and locks and a deadbolt on it, and was the most formidable door the man had ever seen.

"What was that sound?" He asked. "What made it? Is it behind that door?"

The head monk shook his head. "I'm sorry," he said. "I can't tell you; you're not a monk."

As the man turned away, he heard the noise again. "You have to tell me what it is," he begged.

"I'm sorry, I can't tell you, you're not a monk," said the monk.

The man tried to sleep, but couldn't get the noise out of his head. In the morning, as he was getting ready to leave, he heard the sound again. It made his ears ring and his mind whirl."Please tell me what made that sound," he said.

But the monks wouldn't. "I'm sorry, you're not a monk" was all they said.

The man left, and eventually got his car fixed and went back to his life. But he couldn't get the sound out of his mind. After a few months, he got in his car and drove and drove until he found the monastery again. He got out of his car and found the head monk. "I can't forget that sound from that night I was here. Please, please please tell me what made that sound." The head monk just shook his head.

"I can't tell you; you're not a monk," he said."Then tell me how I can become a monk," the man said.

The head monk said "It's very difficult. Are you sure you want to do this?"The man said "I've got to. I have to know what made that sound."The head monk said, "To join us, you have to perform several tasks. Your first task is to count all of the stars visible in the sky."

The man thought about how hard that would be, but he had to know what made that sound. He sat up every night for a year, counting the stars over and over until he was sure how many stars were visible in the sky. He went to the head monk and told him, and the monk nodded.

"Very good. Your next task is to count all of the grains of sand on the beaches around the world."The man knew this would be even harder, but he could not get the noise out of his head. He had to know what, what kind of animal, could make that terrible horrible mind-bending sound. So he left on his journeys. He crawled the length and breadth of every beach in the world, counting the grains of sand, and he returned to the monastery years later.The head monk heard his answer and nodded.

"Excellent. You are almost done. Your final task is to climb to the peak of the highest mountain in the world, and see yourself in relation to the rest of creation." And the man knew this would be hard, but he outfitted himself, and he went to the highest mountain in the world, and he climbed to the top, and returned months later, older and wiser and more tired than years before when he had first heard the noise, the noise that would not leave his mind and that echoed in his every waking thought.He returned, and the head monk saw that he was wiser, and said "At last, you are a monk. Come with me."

And they walked through the monastery, its twisting and turning halls, and as they went the man heard the noise again, over and over, and he was no longer sure if it was the noise or merely his memory of it.And finally, finally, he stood in front of the door and the head monk opened it up, and the man saw what had made the noise.

But, I can't tell you what it was. You're not a monk.

; )

A man was riding a donkey down the road.

The donkey kept asking where they were going.

The man kept answering: Patience, my little ass...

That highly truncated version of Toronado3800's tale just doesn't create the same thoughts and feelings in the mind of this reader. It captures the general theme, but like a movie based on a book, it's just not the same. On the other hand, it is funnier.