House Republicans Pissing Away Middle-Class Tax Cut?

[Soggy in NOLA]

In a surprise turnabout, Republicans in the House of Representatives are now pushing for a one-year extension of the payroll tax cut and have rejected a short-term compromise struck by Republicans and Democrats in the Senate during the weekend.

House Republicans initially opposed renewing the tax break, which expires on December 31, after expressing skepticism that it would boost the economy as the White House claimed.

House Speaker John Boehner, the top Republican in Congress, said his chamber would vote on Monday and likely reject the Senate bill passed on Saturday, despite it having the blessing of Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell.

Even some Senate Republicans were attacking House colleagues for opposing the two-month extension.

"The House Republicans' plan to scuttle the deal to help middle-class families is irresponsible and wrong," said Republican Senator Scott Brown.

Mark Zandi, chief economist at Moody's Analytics, speaking to Reuters Insider, bluntly warned: "I do think recession odds will rise quite significantly early next year if it is not extended."

Payroll tax cut extension stuck in partisan fight | Reuters

I wonder if the Republicans haven't really changed their minds about it - if they're still against it - but don't feel like they can just come right out and say so. This would give them cover - they can say, "Hey, we TRIED to pass it - we just wanted it to be for a whole year, not just two months (or whatever)."

You can't be this stupid. Seriously, how in the world is cutting contributions to an already bankrupt retirement system for two additional months going to help the economy? Oh, that's right, because this about giving extra disposable income to this who DON'T PAY ANY INCOME taxes. And didn't you leftist imbeciles argue that not extending the Bush tax cuts was NOT a tax hike? But wait, now not extending a 2% reduction on SS contributions IS a tax hike?

You fuckers are all crazy.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

And of course according to Reuters, it's all the Republicans fault.

who didn't see this coming.

Well, that is because that is the way it is going to be portrayed.

In the GOP you have a party that went to the wall for the Bush Tax Cuts to the wealthiest Americans and now you have a party that is being seen as screwing the working public out of a very, very modest tax cut.

Look, in terms of Presidential politics, 30 percent of the people will vote for the GOP candidate regardless. Thirty percent will vote for Mr. Obama regardless.

The other 40 percent are what you need to go after and, as the saying goes, what the GOP is perceived as doing isn't going to "Play in Peoria."

From what I heard, however, the GOP controlled House is simply asking for a conference committee to iron out differences. To me that sounds, to borrow a phrase, fair and balanced. However, in the bottom line world we live in...the net result is that the GOP controlled House--the same one that went to the wall for the Bush Tax Cuts is causing a tax increase on the working class.

Good luck getting out of your own way in the future guys.

initially the Pubs didn't want the payroll tax break at all. Then they realized that exposed them for what they are - the party of liars, who want tax breaks for the rich, but not the middle-class.

So they changed course. They said, "ok, we want the tax cut, but you have to give us something in exchange" - the pipeline. So Obama changed course, and the Senate hammered out a bill that included the pipeline, and sent it to the House.

Now the Pubs in the House have changed course again, and said, "OK, we want the tax cut (even though we didn't, until we did), and we want the pipeline, but now the problem is the deal is too short."

And that's where we are. The Senate's gone, and the House Pubs are playing games. The truth is they never wanted the the payroll tax cut in the first place. They just don't have the balls to stand up and say what they really think: which is that the rich deserve tax cuts. Working folks don't.

No, here's where we are. Only an idiot would think that cutting contributions to a retirement system would help the economy. You want a tax cut? Then cut taxes. Oh, wait, that won't help the Dem base because probably of the 47% paying $0 income taxes, 90% are Dems.

 

[JimH52]

Political dispute creates GOP split between House and Senate - CNN.com

Five mostly moderate Republican senators have called for the House to support the Senate's two-month extension. One of them, Sen. Scott Brown of Massachusetts, issued a statement after Tuesday's House vote that said House Republicans "would rather continue playing politics than find solutions."

 

[Stephanie]

Political dispute creates GOP split between House and Senate - CNN.com

Five mostly moderate Republican senators have called for the House to support the Senate's two-month extension. One of them, Sen. Scott Brown of Massachusetts, issued a statement after Tuesday's House vote that said House Republicans "would rather continue playing politics than find solutions."

and? so what?
Republicans don't walk in lockstep like the Democrats do is what I'm seeing.

 

[cheetah440]

The rich are the ones who work and pay taxes, according to you? Who paves the roads? Is that rich people? Who drives the trucks? Who teaches your kids? Who built your house? Was it Wall Street bankers? Do they check your groceries, deliver the mail, and serve your lunch?

You really need to give some credit to the 99% of working people who work because they have to, and stop with the slavish worship of the 1%, who work - if at all - only because they feel like it. They aren't the ones who built this country, they're not the ones who risk their lives defending it, and they're not the ones paying the price - the real price - for the financial recklessness of the moneyed elite in this country.

It's the top 25% that pay for everything. Not worship, just facts:
The Tax Foundation - Summary of Latest Federal Individual Income Tax Data

The bottom 50% avg 1.85% tax rate. They aren't paying for shit yet are the loudest to complain, about everything.

The numbers don't lie, liars lie.

The median household income in the US is about $50k. If you ask anybody who makes that much (or less) you'll find out they do, in fact pay more than that.

Example:
Sales tax: 8.25%
Propery tax: ~ $5000/year
Payroll tax: 15%+ on every dollar I make.

That's before I pay one dollar of income tax.

So again, why lie? Is it that you hope people accept it without thinking?

cool story. What does it have to do with FEDERAL INCOME TAXES?

See, I pay all those too and then 25%. And some say it isn't FAIR. It isn't enough.

 

[cheetah440]

The rich are the ones who work and pay taxes, according to you? Who paves the roads? Is that rich people? Who drives the trucks? Who teaches your kids? Who built your house? Was it Wall Street bankers? Do they check your groceries, deliver the mail, and serve your lunch?

You really need to give some credit to the 99% of working people who work because they have to, and stop with the slavish worship of the 1%, who work - if at all - only because they feel like it. They aren't the ones who built this country, they're not the ones who risk their lives defending it, and they're not the ones paying the price - the real price - for the financial recklessness of the moneyed elite in this country.

It's the top 25% that pay for everything. Not worship, just facts:
The Tax Foundation - Summary of Latest Federal Individual Income Tax Data

The bottom 50% avg 1.85% tax rate. They aren't paying for shit yet are the loudest to complain, about everything.

The numbers don't lie, liars lie.

as usual, you're lying by cherry-picking your data.

Payroll taxes make up 40-50% of all taxes paid to the Federal government. They're paid only on income earned from work - not from interest, dividends, capital gains, or other unearned income - and they're paid only on the first $100k or so of income. Meaning millionaires pay 0% on most of the money they make.

So why have you excluded payroll taxes? Are you pretending they're not taxes? Or are you just deliberately lying?

payroll taxes fund a direct benefit. Your SS benefits are directly tied to how much you put in. If I make 100k for 20 yrs and you make 40k for 20 yrs, I am going to get more benefits than you. It was designed to be a forced retirement. Only funds SS/Medi.

They aren't taxes that we fork over to the government to do with as they see fit. They are a direct benefit. I also have always said FEDERAL INCOME TAXES. Which fund all the services and government functions that we all benefit from. Almost half don't contribute to that funding, or contribute a very small amount.

 

[Sundial]

Except that if you have income of 1 million per year, you pay 1.5% of that, not 15%. And if your income is unearned, you pay 0%. And if you pay $5000 in property tax, that's 0.5%, not 10%.

So you're starting at 0.5%, compared to 25% for a middle-class family.

You think that's fair?

 

[Sundial]

It's the top 25% that pay for everything. Not worship, just facts:
The Tax Foundation - Summary of Latest Federal Individual Income Tax Data

The bottom 50% avg 1.85% tax rate. They aren't paying for shit yet are the loudest to complain, about everything.

The numbers don't lie, liars lie.

The median household income in the US is about $50k. If you ask anybody who makes that much (or less) you'll find out they do, in fact pay more than that.

Example:
Sales tax: 8.25%
Propery tax: ~ $5000/year
Payroll tax: 15%+ on every dollar I make.

That's before I pay one dollar of income tax.

So again, why lie? Is it that you hope people accept it without thinking?

cool story. What does it have to do with FEDERAL INCOME TAXES?

See, I pay all those too and then 25%. And some say it isn't FAIR. It isn't enough.

It's not fair. You should pay more.

Why do you insist that Fed Income Taxes are the only ones that matter?

 

[cheetah440]

The median household income in the US is about $50k. If you ask anybody who makes that much (or less) you'll find out they do, in fact pay more than that.

Example:
Sales tax: 8.25%
Propery tax: ~ $5000/year
Payroll tax: 15%+ on every dollar I make.

That's before I pay one dollar of income tax.

So again, why lie? Is it that you hope people accept it without thinking?

cool story. What does it have to do with FEDERAL INCOME TAXES?

See, I pay all those too and then 25%. And some say it isn't FAIR. It isn't enough.

It's not fair. You should pay more.

Why do you insist that Fed Income Taxes are the only ones that matter?

SS/Medi isn't a welfare package, it's forced retirement. You get back proportionately to what you put in. If you raise the cap then the bennies will go up for those who earn more. What you are saying is SS should be a welfare package. Some people just get SS bennies because. That isn't what SS was ever intended to be.

 

[Full-Auto]

The stupidity and greed from the left is overwhelming.


OK Lefties. Though I doubt any of you criers and whiners have the guts to answer a few questions on SS.


How does this cut help the fiscal sustainability of SS?

Are you clowns so greedy you wont even fund SS now?


The program you wont touch, but spend the money out of.

This cut has proven ineffective.

 

[cheetah440]

The stupidity and greed from the left is overwhelming.


OK Lefties. Though I doubt any of you criers and whiners have the guts to answer a few questions on SS.


How does this cut help the fiscal sustainability of SS?

Are you clowns so greedy you wont even fund SS now?


The program you wont touch, but spend the money out of.

This cut has proven ineffective.

It's simple. They want to change it to a welfare program. At some point someone is going to realize and demand we aren't collecting enough revenue for SS. Think the suggestion will be to go back to 6.2%. Fuck no. The will say the cap needs to be lifted and benefits increased for those who pay the least and no additional benefits for those who pay the most. In fact then, this is the kicker, means testing will be proposed. So the rich will pay for it all and not get any benefit. Welfare is what the result will be called, and rightly so. Not what SS was "sold" as, and not what it was intended to be.

Liberal 2.0. Spend then tax.

 

[JimH52]

Political dispute creates GOP split between House and Senate - CNN.com

Five mostly moderate Republican senators have called for the House to support the Senate's two-month extension. One of them, Sen. Scott Brown of Massachusetts, issued a statement after Tuesday's House vote that said House Republicans "would rather continue playing politics than find solutions."

and? so what?
Republicans don't walk in lockstep like the Democrats do is what I'm seeing.

You obviously don't know history very well. The Dems have always been the party with the inetrnal battles. This is a Lose-Lose game for the GOP. A majority of the Senate GOP voted for this extension. Time is running out and the Tea Party is squarely in the way. Boehner cannot control them anymore. A tax increase will be the death of any hopes the GOP has of gaining the Senate or WH is 2012. The Baggers have overreached...

 

[Stephanie]

Political dispute creates GOP split between House and Senate - CNN.com

and? so what?
Republicans don't walk in lockstep like the Democrats do is what I'm seeing.

You obviously don't know history very well. The Dems have always been the party with the inetrnal battles. This is a Lose-Lose game for the GOP. A majority of the Senate GOP voted for this extension. Time is running out and the Tea Party is squarely in the way. Boehner cannot control them anymore. A tax increase will be the death of any hopes the GOP has of gaining the Senate or WH is 2012. The Baggers have overreached...

ooooooooooo, the tea party has become the boogeyman again.
how cute. you people don't care you are being scammed by the Democrat party. you gotta love little sheep.

 

[JimH52]

Worth another look:

Five mostly moderate Republican senators have called for the House to support the Senate's two-month extension. One of them, Sen. Scott Brown of Massachusetts, issued a statement after Tuesday's House vote that said House Republicans "would rather continue playing politics than find solutions."

 

[thereisnospoon]

The median household income in the US is about $50k. If you ask anybody who makes that much (or less) you'll find out they do, in fact pay more than that.

Example:
Sales tax: 8.25%
Propery tax: ~ $5000/year
Payroll tax: 15%+ on every dollar I make.

That's before I pay one dollar of income tax.

So again, why lie? Is it that you hope people accept it without thinking?

cool story. What does it have to do with FEDERAL INCOME TAXES?

See, I pay all those too and then 25%. And some say it isn't FAIR. It isn't enough.

It's not fair. You should pay more.

Why do you insist that Fed Income Taxes are the only ones that matter?

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!
IT'S NOT FAIR!!!!!!
Cry me a fucking river.
YOU should pay more...

 

[Sundial]

cool story. What does it have to do with FEDERAL INCOME TAXES?

See, I pay all those too and then 25%. And some say it isn't FAIR. It isn't enough.

It's not fair. You should pay more.

Why do you insist that Fed Income Taxes are the only ones that matter?

SS/Medi isn't a welfare package, it's forced retirement. You get back proportionately to what you put in. If you raise the cap then the bennies will go up for those who earn more. What you are saying is SS should be a welfare package. Some people just get SS bennies because. That isn't what SS was ever intended to be.

You didn't respond to my post. If a middle income taxpayer pays out $5000 in property taxes and 15% in payroll taxes, he's already taxed at 25%. Sales tax- where I live - adds another 8.25. Why should he listen to a millionaire complain about paying an extra 1% or 2%? - on income OVER $1 million dollars?

Social security is not, and never has been a "savings program". People get social security who are disabled, widowed or orphaned. Some get it without ever having worked a day in their lives. Others pay for 40 years and never get a dime.

I'm sorry you feel like Social Security was sold to you as forced retirement. But I'm not sure who told you that. Social security is what it's always been - a way to provide income security for people who can no longer provide for themselves.

 

[Sundial]

Worth another look:

Five mostly moderate Republican senators have called for the House to support the Senate's two-month extension. One of them, Sen. Scott Brown of Massachusetts, issued a statement after Tuesday's House vote that said House Republicans "would rather continue playing politics than find solutions."

Interesting. Republicans usually don't attack each other. I guess some of them are get fed up with the Tea Party in the House.

 

[Stephanie]

LOL, back to blaming it on the Tea Party..

 

[cheetah440]

It's not fair. You should pay more.

Why do you insist that Fed Income Taxes are the only ones that matter?

SS/Medi isn't a welfare package, it's forced retirement. You get back proportionately to what you put in. If you raise the cap then the bennies will go up for those who earn more. What you are saying is SS should be a welfare package. Some people just get SS bennies because. That isn't what SS was ever intended to be.

You didn't respond to my post. If a middle income taxpayer pays out $5000 in property taxes and 15% in payroll taxes, he's already taxed at 25%. Sales tax- where I live - adds another 8.25. Why should he listen to a millionaire complain about paying an extra 1% or 2%? - on income OVER $1 million dollars?

Social security is not, and never has been a "savings program". People get social security who are disabled, widowed or orphaned. Some get it without ever having worked a day in their lives. Others pay for 40 years and never get a dime.

I'm sorry you feel like Social Security was sold to you as forced retirement. But I'm not sure who told you that. Social security is what it's always been - a way to provide income security for people who can no longer provide for themselves.

First of all, the millionaire is paying the same 8.25% and a MUCH higher percentage towards Federal Income Taxes. Property taxes would presumably be much higher as would sales taxes paid.

Now SS has ALWAYS been a forced retirement program. Benefits are DIRECTLY tied to length of work and amounts earned. And if you don't think it's forced, tell me how to have the 6.2% from being withheld. It is also forced insurance. A mandate if you will. Unconstitutional without any question. But what your vision is is of a welfare system where benefits aren't tied to contributions, but are massively redistributed from wealthy to poor. That is not and never has been what SS was about.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Payroll tax cut extension stuck in partisan fight | Reuters

I wonder if the Republicans haven't really changed their minds about it - if they're still against it - but don't feel like they can just come right out and say so. This would give them cover - they can say, "Hey, we TRIED to pass it - we just wanted it to be for a whole year, not just two months (or whatever)."

The Reuters story is 10% fact, 90% editorial.
Here's the deal. The GOP wants at least a one year deal. The Democrats want something one which to run their campaigns.
A short term deal solves nothing. We're right back at it in February. How is that productive?

Right back at it in February? Obama wants the tax cut. The Democrats want the tax cut. 90% of the Senate wants the tax cut - including Senate Republicans. If it was really about how long it is, it wouldn't be an issue.

“The House Republicans’ plan to scuttle the deal to help middle-class families is irresponsible and wrong,’’ [Republican Senator] Brown said. “I appreciate their effort to extend these measures for a full year, but a two-month extension is a good deal when it means we avoid jeopardizing the livelihoods of millions of American families.’’

If the House Republicans were genuinely upset it wasn't enough, they'd take what theyve got and then look for more, not scrap what they've already got.

Yes...Right back to the same issue in Feb.
The extension would expire in 60 days. Do I relly need to explain this to you? Or are you being contentious?
If the democrats and the Senate RINO's were serious about the payroll tax cut, they's work to get a lasting one in place.
No. Once again we see politics instead of government from our elected Reps and Senators.