House Dems leave Congress over Holder's Contempt vote

[Charles_Main]

So what you are saying is that Fast and Furious was fine, violating no laws, and no one should be held responsible for it?

Fast and Furious was a failure.

The fact that it was a failure is a tragedy, and there should probably be several firings in the ATF, as well as investigations into why the transfer of guns in this manner is not prosecutable.

But there is no evidence of any crime committed here by any member of the ATF or the DoJ.

Lying to Congress under Oath is a Crime dude.

How can you people sit here with straight Faces saying there is no Evidence, when Obama has used EP to stop the Release of Thousands of Documents that could very well contain Evidence.

I swear you guys will defend anything, No doubt at all if Obama had an R after his Name, You would all be screaming for his Impeachment for this move.

 

[Charles_Main]

Ahh, I see.

Hearsay is fine when it comes to Congress doing a witch-hunt on a Democrat.

But it just doesn't fly with you when a Republican is the accused.

So what you are saying is that Fast and Furious was fine, violating no laws, and no one should be held responsible for it?

Without investigating the admin that started the program? How is this not a witch hunt again?

Wide Receiver was ended Before Obama took Office, There is absolutely No Truth to your Claim that it started under Bush. none.

 

[Mr. Jones]

What a bunch of scumbag babies! Grow up!

Well......it's just like them Dems to "back" a criminal.

WTH are you talking about? They are ALL criminals, every one that voted yes on the Patriot Act. NDAA, and the other police state laws, everyone that voted yes to bail out the banks and, voted against auditing the Fed.
This latest feud, though worthwhile IMO, is not because they have had a change of heart about anything, not the even the BP agent/s that were killed, it is infighting over power and control, to see who will have it over YOU.

 

[Google]

So what you are saying is that Fast and Furious was fine, violating no laws, and no one should be held responsible for it?

Fast and Furious was a failure.

The fact that it was a failure is a tragedy, and there should probably be several firings in the ATF, as well as investigations into why the transfer of guns in this manner is not prosecutable.

But there is no evidence of any crime committed here by any member of the ATF or the DoJ.

It has been well established that the ATF and Justice Dept knew that these weapons were showing up at murders in Mexico, furthermore they should have been able to infer that it would happen based on the failed Operation Wide Receiver, but apparently were so incompetent that they were oblivious to this fact.

Purposely keeping the Mexican government in the dark about this operation while knowingly allowing thousands of assault weapons to be trafficked into a foreign country violated the God damned law. Now whether or not you want to accept that is up to you.

Arms Export Control Act, 22 USC §2778

 

[Vast LWC]

Why would he have to cover his ass? Was he or was he not instructed to make these sales by the ATF?

I don't know, was he?

Or did they just say they were going to track guns that he was already selling?

 

[Vast LWC]

Wide Receiver was ended Before Obama took Office, There is absolutely No Truth to your Claim that it started under Bush. none.

I would have to agree with this.

They were two separate, if very similar programs.

Both of which were failures.

 

[Google]

Why would he have to cover his ass? Was he or was he not instructed to make these sales by the ATF?

I don't know, was he?

Or did they just say they were going to track guns that he was already selling?

You know all of the details of this case, down to the smallest detail. You tell me.

 

[Vast LWC]

It has been well established that the ATF and Justice Dept knew that these weapons were showing up at murders in Mexico, furthermore they should have been able to infer that it would happen based on the failed Operation Wide Receiver, but apparently were so incompetent that they were oblivious to this fact.

Purposely keeping the Mexican government in the dark about this operation while knowingly allowing thousands of assault weapons to be trafficked into a foreign country violated the God damned law. Now whether or not you want to accept that is up to you.

Arms Export Control Act, 22 USC §2778

"Well established" by whom?

And even if they were, what would the ATF have done about it?

The sales from the gun shops were within the law, and the prosecutor had not provided them with indictments so they could take action against suspects.

Did the ATF actually sell any of the weapons in question to anyone at all?

 

[Vast LWC]

You know all of the details of this case, down to the smallest detail. You tell me.

I know the details of the case, as it has been presented.

Do you feel that I was claiming to be an eye-witness inside the gun shop in question? Or part of the investigation?

If you got that impression, then you were mistaken.

 

[Google]

It has been well established that the ATF and Justice Dept knew that these weapons were showing up at murders in Mexico, furthermore they should have been able to infer that it would happen based on the failed Operation Wide Receiver, but apparently were so incompetent that they were oblivious to this fact.

Purposely keeping the Mexican government in the dark about this operation while knowingly allowing thousands of assault weapons to be trafficked into a foreign country violated the God damned law. Now whether or not you want to accept that is up to you.

Arms Export Control Act, 22 USC §2778

"Well established" by whom?

And even if they were, what would the ATF have done about it?

The sales from the gun shops were within the law, and the prosecutor had not provided them with indictments so they could take action against suspects.

Did the ATF actually sell any of the weapons in question to anyone at all?

You are woefully biased to the point that you are selectively altering the facts of this case, or at the very least you are ignorant of the facts that have been obtained during the congressional investigation. Emails and other communications have revealed that it was known, through the tracking of serial numbers of firearms obtained at crime scenes that indeed those weapons were being found at murders in Mexico.

You admit that the sales were made to suspected gun traffickers, yet you claim officials did not know that they were going to be sent south of the border.

 

[Google]

You know all of the details of this case, down to the smallest detail. You tell me.

I know the details of the case, as it has been presented.

Do you feel that I was claiming to be an eye-witness inside the gun shop in question? Or part of the investigation?

If you got that impression, then you were mistaken.

Read the damned email. To you it makes more sense to impugn the gun store owner, making some bullshit claim that it is him that did something wrong--even though you F-ing admit that Fast and Furious was flawed in the very tactic that he is discussing. You are hopelessly biased and only interpret the facts in a favorable way to your argument.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Issa should be repremanded for waisting time on a partisan witch hunt.

Darrel Issa is an asshole.....and it has nothing to do with this case....you live here long enough you eventually find that out....

 

[Truthmatters]

poor cons just cant stand to admitt they were wrong about anything.

bad info in bad decisions out.

this will end Issas career

 

[Google]

So what you are saying is that Fast and Furious was fine, violating no laws, and no one should be held responsible for it?

Fast and Furious was a failure.

The fact that it was a failure is a tragedy, and there should probably be several firings in the ATF, as well as investigations into why the transfer of guns in this manner is not prosecutable.

But there is no evidence of any crime committed here by any member of the ATF or the DoJ.

There should probably be firings? No shit. The fact that one has been held responsible is the reason this investigation was launched. It has not been determined who ultimately authorized this operation, or why they would after the failed Wide Reciever--at the very least it is a testament to a stunning incompetance that should not be tolerated at the Justice Dept. Holder is protecting the identity of this stunningly stupid person, for what reason?

 

[The Infidel]

An ongoing investigation is not an excuse to not provide subpoenaed documents to a congressional oversight committee--once again, you show that you are completely ignorant.

It is if the President then applies executive privilege.

Which he did.

And there you go.

Rep. Issa Letter to Obama Re: Executive Privilege

Darrell Issa Challenges Barack Obama’s Executive Privilege Assertion : Roll Call News

Courts have consistently held that the assertion of the constitutionally-based executive privilege — the only privilege that ever can justify the withholding of documents from acongressional committee by the Executive Branch — is only applicable with respect todocuments and communications that implicate the confidentiality of the President’s decision-making process, defined as those documents and communications to and from the President andhis most senior advisors. Even then, it is a qualified privilege that is overcome by a showing of the committee’s need for the documents. The letters from Messrs. Holder and Cole cited no caselaw to the contrary.

Accordingly, your privilege assertion means one of two things. Either you or your mostsenior advisors were involved in managing Operation Fast & Furious and the fallout from it,including the false February 4, 2011 letter provided by the Attorney General to the Committee,or, you are asserting a Presidential power that you know to be unjustified solely for the purposeof further obstructing a congressional investigation. To date, the White House has steadfastlymaintained that it has not had any role in advising the Department with respect to the congressional investigation. The surprising assertion of executive privilege raised the questionof whether that is still the case.

 

[The Infidel]

poor cons just cant stand to admitt they were wrong about anything.

bad info in bad decisions out.

this will end Issas career

Does not appear that way to me jackass...

 

[Lovebears65]

What a bunch of scumbag babies! Grow up!

Well......it's just like them Dems to "back" a criminal.

Typical. They dont get what they want they leave just like they did in WI with Scott Walker

 

[Ernie S.]

Rev Al Sharpton was a piece of work last night..
He was in an argument with some one over the contempt of congress move.
He was arguing how could Congress place Holder in contempt if nothing was proven yet against Holder.
The gentleman replied that's the point.Holder is not allowing the investigation to proceed.
So again Al was annoyed about the contempt vote when Holder hasn't been proven to have done anything
wrong...

This went on for a bit...
They give anyone a show these days over there at MSNBC...

Another one that thinks eric holder's word is sufficient. He has repeatedly backed off and retacted statements when confronted by evidence of his lies.
That, in itself is sufficient to suspect he and the President have something to hide.

 

[Google]

An ongoing investigation is not an excuse to not provide subpoenaed documents to a congressional oversight committee--once again, you show that you are completely ignorant.

It is if the President then applies executive privilege.

Which he did.

And there you go.

Rep. Issa Letter to Obama Re: Executive Privilege

Darrell Issa Challenges Barack Obama’s Executive Privilege Assertion : Roll Call News

Courts have consistently held that the assertion of the constitutionally-based executive privilege — the only privilege that ever can justify the withholding of documents from acongressional committee by the Executive Branch — is only applicable with respect todocuments and communications that implicate the confidentiality of the President’s decision-making process, defined as those documents and communications to and from the President andhis most senior advisors. Even then, it is a qualified privilege that is overcome by a showing of the committee’s need for the documents. The letters from Messrs. Holder and Cole cited no caselaw to the contrary.

Accordingly, your privilege assertion means one of two things. Either you or your mostsenior advisors were involved in managing Operation Fast & Furious and the fallout from it,including the false February 4, 2011 letter provided by the Attorney General to the Committee,or, you are asserting a Presidential power that you know to be unjustified solely for the purposeof further obstructing a congressional investigation. To date, the White House has steadfastlymaintained that it has not had any role in advising the Department with respect to the congressional investigation. The surprising assertion of executive privilege raised the questionof whether that is still the case.

When the president does it, that means it is not illegal.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

What a bunch of scumbag babies! Grow up!

Well......it's just like them Dems to "back" a criminal.

I'm sorry, are the House Dems prisoners? Or free citizens?