Hot Sauce is...

who cant spank? people are making excuses for abuse

If you spank your child and the child tells the teacher at school, Child Protective Services will come to your house to investigate. Kids hold all the cards these days, parents are the bitch of the children.

CPS does not just take children away from the home. They investigate the allegations,talk to neighbors, doctors,family members etc...

Abuse claims have to meet several levels of criteria before a child is removed from the home (which usually involves a court order)... And the burden of proof is on the case worker.

CPS will also work to improve the childs environment first before they consider removing them from their family. Which usually includes counceling and parenting classes, as well as multiple home visits.

Not true.

Sometimes they make a big deal out of diaper rash and misdiagnose hemangiona. All they need is an "in" and not only is proving one's innocence absurd, but just letting them take a look around is dangerous.

Most investigators are young and don't have kids so the concept of no TV to them is abuse.
 
If you spank your child and the child tells the teacher at school, Child Protective Services will come to your house to investigate. Kids hold all the cards these days, parents are the bitch of the children.

CPS does not just take children away from the home. They investigate the allegations,talk to neighbors, doctors,family members etc...

Abuse claims have to meet several levels of criteria before a child is removed from the home (which usually involves a court order)... And the burden of proof is on the case worker.

CPS will also work to improve the childs environment first before they consider removing them from their family. Which usually includes counceling and parenting classes, as well as multiple home visits.

That doesn't make them any less of an overbearing, overreaching government organization that has ruined probably damn near as many families as it's helped.

"Protective custody" in itself is a huge risk because Florida's DCF loses thousands of kids each year. And nobody in the government cares.
 
Don't get confused about cases of heresay and mistaken identity and illegal surveillance by the government. The key is the video. The woman is seriously unbalanced if she thinks she is going to get some attention on national TV by showing a video of herself abusing her child. What did she think would happen?
 
It's not about "justice" or "public safety"...The object is to get people into the system as a source of continuing revenue for the cops/state.


Skull Pilot, would you tell me which squadron your avatar is from?

It's my dad's.

He flew with VA34 on the Saratoga during Vietnam, he didn't make it home.

148.jpg

VA34..of course!

My dad was a tech rep. for Mcdonnell-Douglas back in the late 60's. We were in Naples with the 6th Fleet. I went on the "Sara" several times as a kid.

God bless your dad.
 
who cant spank? people are making excuses for abuse

If you spank your child and the child tells the teacher at school, Child Protective Services will come to your house to investigate. Kids hold all the cards these days, parents are the bitch of the children.

CPS does not just take children away from the home. They investigate the allegations,talk to neighbors, doctors,family members etc...

Abuse claims have to meet several levels of criteria before a child is removed from the home (which usually involves a court order)... And the burden of proof is on the case worker.

CPS will also work to improve the childs environment first before they consider removing them from their family. Which usually includes counceling and parenting classes, as well as multiple home visits.

This is the ideal, Shadow. CPS often falls short.
 
CPS does not just take children away from the home. They investigate the allegations,talk to neighbors, doctors,family members etc...

Abuse claims have to meet several levels of criteria before a child is removed from the home (which usually involves a court order)... And the burden of proof is on the case worker.

CPS will also work to improve the childs environment first before they consider removing them from their family. Which usually includes counceling and parenting classes, as well as multiple home visits.

That doesn't make them any less of an overbearing, overreaching government organization that has ruined probably damn near as many families as it's helped.

The claim was that CPS just snatches children away from the home based on hearsay. That I disagree with,because I have worked with that organization before.

All government organizations can be overreaching and overbearing...and they do make families jump through hoops. But they do have certain rules and guidelines they have to meet first in order to remove children from the home.

I have known two families CPS investigated, Shadow. Both times, the parent(s) were blameless. One was the home of a rebellious teen who lied on her folks and was removed, along with the other children -- a nightmare the family has never fully recovered from. I suppose this could be excused on the "better safe than sorry" basis, but that seems like a crappy excuse to me.

The other had a child become a crime victim, and CPS added inhuman stress by looking at removing the other children on the theory the parent did not protect them well enough. It was utter BS and only by the forceful and unified outcry from the community did they back off -- after TWO YEARS. CPS really, really, really wanted those kids -- for no good reason. All I can think is that removing well cared for middle class kids from well meaning middle class families gives them clients and families who are more compliant and more likely to "succeed" in their programs.

While we're discussing the quality of CPS services, I'd like to know why child abuse is still so prevalent if CPS does such a fine job? IMO, the supervisors of the CPS we have here in Cleveland should be in prison for their criminal neglect of children reported to them to be at risk or actually suffering. And I hardly think Cleveland is unique.


Comments on Cuyahoga County is not investigating thousands of reports of child abuse and neglect | Metro - cleveland.com - Page 3 - cleveland.com

Comments on Deaths of Arshon Baker and Alexandria Hamilton raise questions about abuse prevention | Metro - cleveland.com - Page 2 - cleveland.com
 
Don't get confused about cases of heresay and mistaken identity and illegal surveillance by the government. The key is the video. The woman is seriously unbalanced if she thinks she is going to get some attention on national TV by showing a video of herself abusing her child. What did she think would happen?

I'm not excusing her but I think some people with severely damaged kids are so desperate, they really do think a TV personality like Dr. Phil can help.....and the price of getting on his show is to take video.
 
No. Not CPS nor anyone can come into your home with out your permission. If you don't let them in or speak to them, they have no proof, and therefore no grounds to get a warrent.

If they do come back with the cops, sans warrent, and ask why you won't let them in; I have the Constitutional right to privacy.

If a teacher says your kid said. It's all hearsay. Now if the teachers says the kid is bruised and battered; CPS will show up with a cop and a warrent.


fyi; NEVER let CPS in. Not for any reason. Not to prove you are innocent, not to prove you are a good parent, not to prove your house is clean. NEVER. B/c cps is under no obligation to be truthfull in court and thier word will be taken over yours and you will lose your kids if they want to take them.

From my experience though its just better to talk to CPS and get it over with, if you slam the door in their face and and make them go to the authorities it looks like you have something to hide.

From my experience they have nothing until they get through that door, and when times are tough and the caseload for the investigators is light they go fishing.

Such as investigating a Catholic family just because he took custody of some kids and hired a lawyer to remove a Servicemember from reproach.



TRAINWRECK

Caseloads are huge in big cities, not sure about small towns. If you don't open the door to CPS they can still go to your kids school and talk to them there, like I said you can close the door on CPS but that only delays the inevitable.
 
who cant spank? people are making excuses for abuse

If you spank your child and the child tells the teacher at school, Child Protective Services will come to your house to investigate. Kids hold all the cards these days, parents are the bitch of the children.

CPS does not just take children away from the home. They investigate the allegations,talk to neighbors, doctors,family members etc...

Abuse claims have to meet several levels of criteria before a child is removed from the home (which usually involves a court order)... And the burden of proof is on the case worker.

CPS will also work to improve the childs environment first before they consider removing them from their family. Which usually includes counceling and parenting classes, as well as multiple home visits.


I never said CPS takes the children away right away, but they will come to the house to investigate on the first complaint of abuse, and may even interview all the family members separately. They won't take the children unless it is determined the house is an unsafe environment.
 
From my experience though its just better to talk to CPS and get it over with, if you slam the door in their face and and make them go to the authorities it looks like you have something to hide.

From my experience they have nothing until they get through that door, and when times are tough and the caseload for the investigators is light they go fishing.

Such as investigating a Catholic family just because he took custody of some kids and hired a lawyer to remove a Servicemember from reproach.



TRAINWRECK

Caseloads are huge in big cities, not sure about small towns. If you don't open the door to CPS they can still go to your kids school and talk to them there, like I said you can close the door on CPS but that only delays the inevitable.

They don't get to do that at a private school without a court order. ;) I agree with what you say, that it might only delay the inevitable but that's assuming they don't find anything wrong in the house - and they always will find something. That agency has the power to present evidence that is accepted in court but doesn't have to follow the standard rules of evidence when investigating. It's supposedly done to keep families together but it really is so that they can protect themselves.

Things like "The house is messy" (duh, kids are walking tornadoes), and "Pool gates unlocked" (duh, my wife was in the pool!) are all considered "findings of fact."
 
From my experience they have nothing until they get through that door, and when times are tough and the caseload for the investigators is light they go fishing.

Such as investigating a Catholic family just because he took custody of some kids and hired a lawyer to remove a Servicemember from reproach.



TRAINWRECK

Caseloads are huge in big cities, not sure about small towns. If you don't open the door to CPS they can still go to your kids school and talk to them there, like I said you can close the door on CPS but that only delays the inevitable.

They don't get to do that at a private school without a court order. ;) I agree with what you say, that it might only delay the inevitable but that's assuming they don't find anything wrong in the house - and they always will find something. That agency has the power to present evidence that is accepted in court but doesn't have to follow the standard rules of evidence when investigating. It's supposedly done to keep families together but it really is so that they can protect themselves.

Things like "The house is messy" (duh, kids are walking tornadoes), and "Pool gates unlocked" (duh, my wife was in the pool!) are all considered "findings of fact."

I can understand what your saying, dealing with CPS is a pain in the ass because most of the time the things they are investigating are not serious, however how long can you really ignore the CPS worker? eventually if they cannot reach you and they believe the child is in danger they will just get a warrant from the police.
 
Caseloads are huge in big cities, not sure about small towns. If you don't open the door to CPS they can still go to your kids school and talk to them there, like I said you can close the door on CPS but that only delays the inevitable.

They don't get to do that at a private school without a court order. ;) I agree with what you say, that it might only delay the inevitable but that's assuming they don't find anything wrong in the house - and they always will find something. That agency has the power to present evidence that is accepted in court but doesn't have to follow the standard rules of evidence when investigating. It's supposedly done to keep families together but it really is so that they can protect themselves.

Things like "The house is messy" (duh, kids are walking tornadoes), and "Pool gates unlocked" (duh, my wife was in the pool!) are all considered "findings of fact."

I can understand what your saying, dealing with CPS is a pain in the ass because most of the time the things they are investigating are not serious, however how long can you really ignore the CPS worker? eventually if they cannot reach you and they believe the child is in danger they will just get a warrant from the police.

If they need to talk to the kids have them meet the family at an attorney's office. If it's just a fishing expedition (as opposed to signs of physical abuse) they have to make the case and they can't do it without more information, and that's definitely not sufficient for a warrant.
 

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