Hot Button Buddhist Issues

[Si modo]

You are wrong about your interpretation of "right speech" as meaning never use the term "extremism" or never call anyone "extremist".

Most non-buddhists, knowing nothing of buddhism, presume that buddhism means "always be nice".

I consider it an extremist idea to eliminate all government except for the military and the police.

Bryan Fischer of the American Family Association radio program says otherwise.

His views are extremist. He proposes that the only people who should be able to get contraception in the US would be married couples.

Martin Ssempa is a Christian minister who drafted the "kill gays" legislation in Uganda. I call him extremist.

I know a little more than nothing about Buddhism, and, in my opinion, referring to someone as an "extremist" is definitely not in keeping with "Right Speech." I'd certainly be interested in why you think it's acceptable, but in my view it's little more than name calling.

As for the term "extremism," my complaint isn't necessarily about its context in the idea of "Right Speech," but that there's no objective measure of what is or isn't "extreme."

And we've yet to adequately address my original point, which could be summed up as there is no "Buddhist position" on economic policy. You'll have communist Buddhists and free market Buddhists.

The term "extremist" is accurate when someone has extreme views. Extremism is not valued in Buddhism.

We practice the "middle way".

What it sounds like you are doing is overlaying a Judeo Christian judgment into Buddhism. Seeing that if there is "Right Speech" there must be "Wrong Speech".

There are many different teachings about how to speak skillfully. What you're trying to do is kind of scold Buddhists if they don't hold to your idea of what Right Speech is.

That would be as bad as me telling you how you should be acting if you are a "good Christian".

To the bolded: That is Daoist, not Judeo-Christian.

But I understand how that would confuse you. You view judgement as bad, thus it must be Judeo-Christian.

Yet, that, the bolded, is one of the fundamentals of Daoism.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

I'm very sorry. How did I insult you?

You implied that I was an "extremist."

'I'm a Marxist' says Dalai Lama, but agrees capitalism has helped China

So much for the "middle way."

What did I actually post that you thought was implying that I think YOU are an extremist?

I don't know your views very well at all. I have no opinion on whether you are an extremist or not.

Some people consider my views extremist.

Are you someone who is a free market, no regulation extremist?

Those are my views, and you referred to them as "extremist." Thus implying that I am an extremist.

Now you talk about the term "extremist" as if it's subjective, which is a reversal from the way you talked about it in the rest of the thread.

 

[Sky Dancer]

You implied that I was an "extremist."

'I'm a Marxist' says Dalai Lama, but agrees capitalism has helped China

So much for the "middle way."

What did I actually post that you thought was implying that I think YOU are an extremist?

I don't know your views very well at all. I have no opinion on whether you are an extremist or not.

Some people consider my views extremist.

Are you someone who is a free market, no regulation extremist?

Those are my views, and you referred to them as "extremist." Thus implying that I am an extremist.

Now you talk about the term "extremist" as if it's subjective, which is a reversal from the way you talked about it in the rest of the thread.

I asked a question. That implies nothing. If you're thinking that no regulation at all is a good thing, then I would find that somewhat extreme. Wall St needed to get itself clipped. I offered as a middle way, some regulation but not too much regulation.

The label of extremism is subjective and objective. If you think of views as on a continuum, right and left, then obviously some views are in the middle and some are on the poles.

I"m very sorry if I insulted you. I didn't mean to. Will you accept my apology?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

No, I'd rather debate but I'm not very good at it.

One thing, don't call someone an extremist just because his views are exactly the opposite of yours, by doing so you are labeling yourself as an extremist. I think a good debater should be able to argue both sides of the argument. Why don't you pick a topic and argue my side and let me argue yours?

Do you object to me calling Bryan Fischer an extremist? What about Tim McVeigh or Fred Phelps?

I don't object to you calling anyone an extremist. I am just pointing out that it is not a tactic that is going to win any debates.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

What did I actually post that you thought was implying that I think YOU are an extremist?

I don't know your views very well at all. I have no opinion on whether you are an extremist or not.

Some people consider my views extremist.

Are you someone who is a free market, no regulation extremist?

Those are my views, and you referred to them as "extremist." Thus implying that I am an extremist.

Now you talk about the term "extremist" as if it's subjective, which is a reversal from the way you talked about it in the rest of the thread.

I asked a question. That implies nothing. If you're thinking that no regulation at all is a good thing, then I would find that somewhat extreme. Wall St needed to get itself clipped. I offered as a middle way, some regulation but not too much regulation.

The label of extremism is subjective and objective. If you think of views as on a continuum, right and left, then obviously some views are in the middle and some are on the poles.

I"m very sorry if I insulted you. I didn't mean to. Will you accept my apology?

Sure.

The left-right continuum is simply a construct, and not a very good one at that. However, even if you accept the continuum it doesn't necessarily mean that views far to the right, or far to the left, are "extreme," it just means that they're different from viewpoints in the "center."

 

[Sky Dancer]

Those are my views, and you referred to them as "extremist." Thus implying that I am an extremist.

Now you talk about the term "extremist" as if it's subjective, which is a reversal from the way you talked about it in the rest of the thread.

I asked a question. That implies nothing. If you're thinking that no regulation at all is a good thing, then I would find that somewhat extreme. Wall St needed to get itself clipped. I offered as a middle way, some regulation but not too much regulation.

The label of extremism is subjective and objective. If you think of views as on a continuum, right and left, then obviously some views are in the middle and some are on the poles.

I"m very sorry if I insulted you. I didn't mean to. Will you accept my apology?

Sure.

The left-right continuum is simply a construct, and not a very good one at that. However, even if you accept the continuum it doesn't necessarily mean that views far to the right, or far to the left, are "extreme," it just means that they're different from viewpoints in the "center."

I really don't see why you object to using the term "extreme". Bryan Fischer thinks the only public service that should be funded is the military and the police.

That is an extreme view.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

I asked a question. That implies nothing. If you're thinking that no regulation at all is a good thing, then I would find that somewhat extreme. Wall St needed to get itself clipped. I offered as a middle way, some regulation but not too much regulation.

The label of extremism is subjective and objective. If you think of views as on a continuum, right and left, then obviously some views are in the middle and some are on the poles.

I"m very sorry if I insulted you. I didn't mean to. Will you accept my apology?

Sure.

The left-right continuum is simply a construct, and not a very good one at that. However, even if you accept the continuum it doesn't necessarily mean that views far to the right, or far to the left, are "extreme," it just means that they're different from viewpoints in the "center."

I really don't see why you object to using the term "extreme". Bryan Fischer thinks the only public service that should be funded is the military and the police.

That is an extreme view.

I object to it because it's so subjective as to mean nothing at all, not to mention it's simply an insult designed to stop debate. If you can just pass off another person's views as extreme you don't have to discuss them or think about them.

The Dalai Lama called himself a Marxist, but you didn't think that was "extreme." You tried to rationalize that immediately.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Sure.

The left-right continuum is simply a construct, and not a very good one at that. However, even if you accept the continuum it doesn't necessarily mean that views far to the right, or far to the left, are "extreme," it just means that they're different from viewpoints in the "center."

I really don't see why you object to using the term "extreme". Bryan Fischer thinks the only public service that should be funded is the military and the police.

That is an extreme view.

I object to it because it's so subjective as to mean nothing at all, not to mention it's simply an insult designed to stop debate. If you can just pass off another person's views as extreme you don't have to discuss them or think about them.

The Dalai Lama called himself a Marxist, but you didn't think that was "extreme." You tried to rationalize that immediately.

If you'd rather I not use the term "extremist" then I won't. I do consider Osama Bin Laden to be an Islamic extremist. Perhaps that's why you object to the term.

The Dalai Lama, in his grace, and his desire to make peace with the Chinese, calls himself a Marxist at the same time he describes himself as appreciating captitalism.

That means he always seeks for and finds the good, in his enemies.

You think of Marxism as negative. I don't. I don't study Marxism, but my understanding that classical Marxism, the philosophy, has some good in it.

Communist countries howeve tell us that Marxism isn't easily applied in a classical or pure sense.

You could say the same for capitalism. It's neutral. Some capitialists are bodhisattvas and some are just greedy.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

I really don't see why you object to using the term "extreme". Bryan Fischer thinks the only public service that should be funded is the military and the police.

That is an extreme view.

I object to it because it's so subjective as to mean nothing at all, not to mention it's simply an insult designed to stop debate. If you can just pass off another person's views as extreme you don't have to discuss them or think about them.

The Dalai Lama called himself a Marxist, but you didn't think that was "extreme." You tried to rationalize that immediately.

If you'd rather I not use the term "extremist" then I won't. I do consider Osama Bin Laden to be an Islamic extremist. Perhaps that's why you object to the term.

The Dalai Lama, in his grace, and his desire to make peace with the Chinese, calls himself a Marxist at the same time he describes himself as appreciating captitalism.

That means he always seeks for and finds the good, in his enemies.

You think of Marxism as negative. I don't. I don't study Marxism, but my understanding that classical Marxism, the philosophy, has some good in it.

Communist countries howeve tell us that Marxism isn't easily applied in a classical or pure sense.

You could say the same for capitalism. It's neutral. Some capitialists are bodhisattvas and some are just greedy.

I object to the term in general, not because it's applied to one person or another. Whether Osama was an extremist or not is subjective, but he is objectively a murderer and that's certainly more than enough to fairly condemn him in my opinion.

I'm not critiquing the Dalai Lama for calling himself a Marxist, as he can call himself whatever he wants for whatever reason he wants. However, if you're going to label a belief in free market capitalism as "extremist," then Marxism is most certainly "extremism" as well. My point is that you're not being consistent in your use of the term "extreme." You have no problem labeling ideas that you don't like "extreme," but quickly try to justify any ideas that you do like.

 

[Sky Dancer]

I object to it because it's so subjective as to mean nothing at all, not to mention it's simply an insult designed to stop debate. If you can just pass off another person's views as extreme you don't have to discuss them or think about them.

The Dalai Lama called himself a Marxist, but you didn't think that was "extreme." You tried to rationalize that immediately.

If you'd rather I not use the term "extremist" then I won't. I do consider Osama Bin Laden to be an Islamic extremist. Perhaps that's why you object to the term.

The Dalai Lama, in his grace, and his desire to make peace with the Chinese, calls himself a Marxist at the same time he describes himself as appreciating captitalism.

That means he always seeks for and finds the good, in his enemies.

You think of Marxism as negative. I don't. I don't study Marxism, but my understanding that classical Marxism, the philosophy, has some good in it.

Communist countries howeve tell us that Marxism isn't easily applied in a classical or pure sense.

You could say the same for capitalism. It's neutral. Some capitialists are bodhisattvas and some are just greedy.

I object to the term in general, not because it's applied to one person or another. Whether Osama was an extremist or not is subjective, but he is objectively a murderer and that's certainly more than enough to fairly condemn him in my opinion.

I'm not critiquing the Dalai Lama for calling himself a Marxist, as he can call himself whatever he wants for whatever reason he wants. However, if you're going to label a belief in free market capitalism as "extremist," then Marxism is most certainly "extremism" as well. My point is that you're not being consistent in your use of the term "extreme." You have no problem labeling ideas that you don't like "extreme," but quickly try to justify any ideas that you do like.

OK, I see your point and your reasons for objecting to the term "extreme".