"Horses and Bayonets"

Discussion in 'Election Forums' started by JimH52, Oct 23, 2012.

  1. JimH52
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    JimH52 Gold Member

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    I cannot believe Willard decided to compare the number of ships in the 1916 Navy to our forces now. The debate coach that came up with that assertion is an idiot.

    It did illustrate just how backwards Willard's thinking is, though. He made a good point for Obama.:clap2::clap2::clap2:
     
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  2. JoeB131
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    JoeB131 Diamond Member

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    I think it also showed his ignorance of naval history.

    What the great powers figured out after World War I was that battleships were in fact a waste of resources. Germany and the UK engaged in a very expensive arms race for dreadnaughts that ended rather anti-climatically when after the Battle of Jutland, they proved largely unimportant to the eventual outcome of the war.

    The first order of business after World War I was signing the Washington Naval Treaty, where the powers on the winning side all agreed to limit the number of battleships they built so they wouldn't bankrupt themselves.

    The fact is, Naval power is kind of unimportant We have 12 aircraft carriers, more than the rest of the world combined, and most of the rest of the world's nations that operate them are either allies or have a common interest with us.

    The one thing we have learned, or should have learned in the last decade, is that even minor wars are economic back-breakers. No one could afford a major war in our interconnected, global economy.

    Investing in schools instead of warships would do more to improve our international position.
     
  3. daveman
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    daveman Diamond Member

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    FactCheck.org : False Claims in Final Debate

    Smallest Navy Since 1917?

    Romney repeated the claim that our “Navy is smaller now than any time since 1917,” which isn’t technically true. There were 342 total active ships as of April 6, 1917, when the U.S. entered World War I. There were 282 active duty ships as of April 2012, according to a Congressional Research Service report in August. That’s down from the Naval History and Heritage Command’s count of 285 as of September 2011. However, 282 ships is the same number in service during George W. Bush’s last year in office, and a slight increase over the number in 2007, when the size of the fleet was actually at its lowest.

    More important, ships today can do more than they used to, so having fewer doesn’t necessarily translate to a weaker Navy. In April, Navy Secretary Ray Mabus said that comparing today’s ships to those of years past is “like comparing the telegraph to the smartphone.” Navy officials presented a plan to Congress back in March projecting that the size of the Naval fleet could increase to 300 ships by 2019. That’s the amount that Mabus said the Navy needs to meet its defense needs.

    Romney's point was that the Navy has fewer vessels than it says it needs.

    And he's right.
     
  4. JimH52
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    JimH52 Gold Member

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    Agreed....Never before in US History was there a tax cut during a war, until George W "What's His Name." I remember when he managed to pass his tax cuts, I could not believe we were doing that...
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2012
  5. JoeB131
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    JoeB131 Diamond Member

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    No, the navy WANTS more ships.

    The navy doesn't NEED more ships.

    In 1916, you had the German Navy, the Japanese Navy, the British Navy all of which were potential rivals to American interests. So having more ships then actually kind of made sense.

    today. Nearly every country with a major naval power is either an ally or has a common economic interest in keeping free trade and globalism like it is.

    Navies are kind of pointless when you can take out a whole fleet with one nuke.

    What we need is to put more money into infrastructure and education, not building expensive ships that will never see a day of combat.
     
  6. JimH52
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    JimH52 Gold Member

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    I am not sure what Willard was thinking last night, but I do believe he punched Barry's ticket to a second term. I see a respected pollster with Virginia in the Obama column now...
     
  7. JoeB131
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    JoeB131 Diamond Member

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    Really? WHich one?

    RCP hasn't picked it up yet, but I suspect they'll drag their feet as long as possible.

    My own opinion, this debate SHOULD have been the nail in Romney's coffin. He doesn't know much about this subject, and it's really something a president should know.

    BUt the people are more focused on the economy right now, and because some of them have gotten "Romnesia" about how we got in to this mess, Romney is still viable.

    Shouldn't be, but he is.
     
  8. VaYank5150
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    VaYank5150 Gold Member

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    Romney proved what a hypocrite and imbecile he really is as it pertains to our military. He seems to think that Napoleonic tactics are still play. Governor...."He with the most toys does not win". What a maroon!
     
  9. JimH52
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    JimH52 Gold Member

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    Both fivethirtyeight.com and cnn.com have moved Virginia into the Obama camp.
     
  10. Cheddarmelon
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    Cheddarmelon Active Member

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    "And these boats that go underwater. They're called submarines."

    epic.
     

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